Update on videos

[sube]

https://youtu.be/Cwz-aUzzQ9I

Well I called mine lab and finally got a technician I started to explain what I was doing mind you he runs a ctx also . I might have been better off going to Wal-Mart and asking the checker behind the counter the guy did not have a clue what I was talking about

So I started playing with the setting again I had high trash set up to just knock out nails so I read about some old settings about the e-trac . So I put my detector in conductive and low and behold the dime started giving audio . not when directly under the nail but anywhere near except east west above or below .

Now I was under the assumption that combine would give audio when the dime was not under the nail like nail dime nail hit . Which would be low tone high tone low tone but it only gave a low tone for all the hits what happened to the high tone is there a glitch in combine or what .

So I had 2 different patterns set up both high trash does not matter what separation you use . I have the nails disc out 31 line to the 35 line any higher say 30 and up you would loose the audio because if you disc out say 29 and the coin with the nail comes in at 29.45 you will not hear it the cursor is just above the iron bin in the right hand corner . Now a thing about that cursor to watch is it dipping down in the 31 to 35 or is it staying above say it's going 29 to 20 good sign and the co #s have got to be stable say a dime would be 43 to 45 , 45 to 47 or 46 to 48 with a occasional 12.45 mixed in .

My bins are set up as bin 1 1 to 10 80hz bin 2 11 to 15 1000hz bin 3 16 to 28 80hz bin 4 29 to 50 1000hz this is my coin pattern you have to remember once that iron gets above the 31 line it will take whatever hz you assign to it Lot's of looking at the screen and more falses but easy to check by cross sweeping .

I wish that the combine mode worked like it was suppose to but when the nail is close to the coin it gives only a low tone except when cross sweep .

A nickel is a little strange as it well come in at 12.40 to 12.41 on a east west hit that's the coin at the point of the nail not under and when sweep north south well be 14.14 or there abouts but great audio either way.

So watch video and see what you think . sube

 

[rsarge1]

that is interesting because I usually use combined, ferrous coin thinking the same that I should get a high tone now I need to also pay attention to the low tones to

 

[GKMan]

I am thinking the reason we are hearing the dime in High Trash is because just like the description in the manual says
"The High Trash setting can identify weak accepted target signals amongst rejected
targets even if the rejected target signals are stronger"

Meaning that the dime is that weak accepted target amongst the rejected nails

In the end a real eye opener I believe. I have a perfect site to test this out at, which is where I can barely move without nulling. I put up with it due to the large amount of early coppers I have found there.

I will definitely run some comparison testing in a real world situation to see what happens..

As always.. Great job Sube

 

[sube]

GK this happens in all modes when the nails are disc out line 31 to 35 not just high trash .The problem now becomes all targets above the 31 line will get the hz assign to them for that bin so all those iron signals that would go low on the combine screen say your line was at 20 would be low . sube

 

[mcb613]

Sube, so you have been playing with thid for a while and have stated alot of detsils and findings. So, can you summorize or give a synopsis of your findings in 2 or 3 sentences? Is there a definitiive way to use your findings? BYW, I dug the largest seuate nail I have ever seen this morning... Had the build towardd the 12-25 area.
Thanks,
Mike

 

[sube]

Again I will ask the ? what was the cursor doing when you decided to dig the target ( that means in your normal hunting mode )Well to some it up I showed you how to check targets with iron is it perfect H@@l no there are so many possibility's of nail coin targets your going to dig some nails but at least you won't have to dig them all.
No different than getting a perfect audio and cursor only to dig up a nail or iron washer it just happens
.
Now I'm trying conduct I get audio on all dimes except under or north and south of a east west hit co #s stay steady with a coin in the mix and the fe #s are depending on what it is mask with bigger nail smaller nail.
Instead of listening to low tones from nails and such now you have to listen to all those high tones that are above line 31 that's why 2 of my bins are set at 80 hz.

Now combine was to set all those tones below your fe line you set to a low tone which is a great ideal and works where the targets are farther apart but a nail and coin close together and the audio go's low for the high tone .

So does anybody have a ideal why that high tone go's low.

 

[amberjack]

so the fe line in combined is 35 to 31 blocked out? if you block it out higher what happens say to 35 to 18 do you get a high tone on the dime?

AJ

 

[Digger]

Combined really doesn't do much for target separation, other than gives our ears more information by providing both ferrous audio and conductive audio responses. As you pointed out, using Conductive audio improved your results on the dime. In High Trash, you need to expand your edit frames to a larger size to accept (or reject) specific target values. Otherwise, you'll get wrap around signals from adjacent targets. However, if you want to use Combined audio and are trying to unmask targets, I'd suggest raising the FE line (more discrimination) and using Ferrous Coin separation. Just make sure the FE line in Combined is not set the same as the FE value of the targets being discriminated out, or it isn't doing anything more than 4 tone conductive with discrimination. Fe/Coin provides a more accurate visual TID than High Trash. Visually you can get a lot of information by implementing Target Trace/Target Trace Pinpoint. And you will likely have better luck sorting out the targets audio responses by using a slower sweep speed. JMHO

 

[sube]

so the fe line in combined is 35 to 31 blocked out? if you block it out higher what happens say to 35 to 18 do you get a high tone on the dime?

AJ

You do not get a high tone on the dime in combine when close to a nail as I have showed . This happens when the target is truly masked .

You have to be in conductive for this to work 50 tone 4 tone or 2 tone conductive .

Now if you set your fe line to 18 to 35 you will not get a audio response from a dime reading 19 45 to 35 45 I rarely get a dime and nail hit lower than 29 .45 look at it this way a 18.45 is less masked than a 25.45 they both have co#s of 45 but the 18.45 is less masked . sube

 

[amberjack]

Sube, sounds like a etrac with an open screen. with those high FE numbers.

I cant remember last time I used CO tones , I set my combined tones and ranges when I got the detector and have spent the last 4 years learning what they are telling me, still learning that when I have that sorted I will go on to stage 2

don't get me wrong I watch your videos and like and appreciate the work your doing and I am filing it away to help me in what I am doing and its helping but probably not in the way you intended but then that's how it usually works hey

AJ

 

[kittlitz]

Sube, thanks for another great video

I think whichever bin the cursor is in determines which tone gets played. In the video, the cursor is always falling in the FE bin when you're in Combined mode, thus we get the low tone. Switching to 4CO will mean the cursor ends up in a high-tone bin (probably the 4th one), but where the cursor was on the screen didn't seem to change much when you switched from Combined to 4CO... nor would I expect it to, since you were only changing the audio response.

Edit: the above assumes you had your 5th (FE) bin set to start around 25 or 26... if you actually had it starting at 30 or 31, then I agree that we shouldn't get any low tones, because that area was discriminated out.

The really surprising thing was how much those nails dragged the cursor down into FE territory (i.e., increased the FE number). I would have expected them to lower the CO response of the dime instead. Does the same thing happen if you use Ferrous-Coin separation instead of High Trash?

-Ken

 

[amberjack]

think it was pretty clear the detector wasn't picking up the coin tough test on any machine.

some may do better but in ground results are where the rubber hits the road and minelabs seem to be head of the pack on silver / copper coins, not my choice as a park gold hunter but hey 2 outta 3 not bad.

AJ

 

[Rex123]

You guys are seriously putting me off buying one of these not only do l have a price tag of $2600 to contend with, it now seems l have to watch the screen all the time in trashy areas! This is something l never had to do with my explorers, which brings me to another point.
What have the sensitivty settings been when making these vids/air tests?

 

[amberjack]

I hunt with my ears then use the screen which gives out a pile more info than an explorer , but best off keeping the explorer

AJ

 

[mcb613]

Yea, im in the same boat with opinion. Seems like the Explorer line does just as well. Infact last weekend, my buddy and I were hunting together, me with 3030 and him eith my old Etrac. Several targets were checked with both machines... And low and behold, the Etrac had a much better signal than the 3030. I know is dependent upon settings, but the basic result was Etrac having better signal. Certainly, was hitting deeper than the 3030.
Find myself asking.... So Was the color screen and GPS really worth the extra $1000?
Jury is still out for me!
If giving someone advice to buy 2 or the other, if suggest the Etrac, and thats whithout considering the X1 probe capability or coil options.
I thought i paid the $1000 extra to get regular updates snd a machine to mske my hunted spots new again. I didnt get either.
In my opinion, obviously. Sorry Minelab! Nect one may be an XP,

 

[sube]

Ken said

The really surprising thing was how much those nails dragged the cursor down into FE territory (i.e., increased the FE number). I would have expected them to lower the CO response of the dime instead. Does the same thing happen if you use Ferrous-Coin separation instead of High Trash?

It works the same in all separation modes however the ferrous coin mode is always trying to put the cursor on the 12 line it only go's to the 12 line when you get a 12.45 or there about compared to a 25.45 but high trash low trash and ground coin tends to keep the cursor on the screen more often than ferrous coin but at the 29.45 to 18.45 mark depending how masked the target is .

As far as combine with the fe line set at 35 or 30 than the target in any separation mode will high tone but once you place your fe line above 30 say 28 you will not get a high tone only a low tone on the dime it will go low ( that's with a nail or other ferrous object .)

Amberjack said

think it was pretty clear the detector wasn't picking up the coin tough test on any machine

Amberjack the machine picks up the coin in any setting but it well go low in combine unless the fe line is below the dimes response say 29.45 fe line would have to be 29 if the dimes response is 18.45 then the fe line should be 19

The whole idea of this is to get a high tone to alert you to there being a target there so you do not have to look at the screen , (conductive separates better on close nail to coin hit's compared to combine)

 

[amberjack]

I need to pay closer attention Sube normal for me though I don't use CO tones only ever used combined tones and don't run my disc that low so I would miss that coin , maybe one day I will have to run disc that low , but I am heading in to gold season so the ctx gets a few months off and I guess I will be running low disc might pick up that coin looking for gold it has happened before.

pick up all sorts of unexpected's on single frequency's digging for gold. even crazier than digging nails is tab after tab or what ever the prevailing trash is so I have enough screws lose to hunt those silvers hiding under nails at some stage

keep up the good work keeping us on our toes.

AJ

 

[sube]

You guys are seriously putting me off buying one of these not only do l have a price tag of $2600 to contend with, it now seems l have to watch the screen all the time in trashy areas! This is something l never had to do with my explorers, which brings me to another point.
What have the sensitivty settings been when making these vids/air tests?

Sensitivity was running at 23 to 25 auto plus 3 as for (air test) all my test are ran in my coin garden which have the same nail dime mix it's just easier to do inside to show people what I'm using in the test .

I had the explorer 2 for 8 or 9 years mxt fisher 1266 whites 6000 series 1 2 and 3 small coils and large all these detectors were run at the fairgrounds I hunt for the last 10 years . So I get the 3030 put it into combine open screen ferrous coin. Here's what I got 100 plus Indians 43 barber dimes 22 mercury dimes 20 Roosevelt dimes 3 half's 2 walkers and 1 barber 2 gold rings 6 silver rings 120 wheat's 4 quarters and 6 or 7 silver medallions .Now did I just miss these don't think so .

The explorer 2 was a great machine never cared about the silver warble thing I was looking for coins so the same area that I had used the explorer 2 a little area 10 x 10 I find a 1867 1883 and a 1903 Indian penny (3 inches deep all the Indians ) nothing with them clear signals it should of been a slam dunk with the explorer 2 but it just did not see them . So the ctx is doing something different don't no what but it got those coins a (wow moment )

Here's the thing about the e-trac when it came out Lot's of people used it some went back to the explorers and said it was better than the e-trac over time now people say that the e-tac is the best machine out there . So some e- trac users got the ctx and used it and went back to the e-trac saying it was better than the ctx Once somebody figures out the ctx and uses all the imfo it provides the same e-trac users will be going back to the ctx . You see what I'm saying .


Now when in combine I have dug coins with nails several in fact that were close to the dime in the same hole but in my in ground test with the nails like I showed you combine would not high tone on these but then again I still find nails close with coins hunting ?.


Now I never ran a e-trac I went from explorer 2 to the ctx but what I know now is that the ctx is superior to the explorer 2 .

Take for instants checking targets I can run 4 different disc patterns with a push of the button and toggle back and forth to analyze a target also have target trace which gives me 5 ways to check a bad signal out E-trac and explorers don't have this many options .

Getting back to the fairgrounds I have covered this with ferrous coin combine not many signals that are good anymore so I have to change my hunting pattern to get more this is where the ctx will outshine it's cousin the e-trac it will take some time but the tools are there in the ctx just have to understand the ctx better . As far as the deus thought about getting one because of the speed thing but I have found that if the ctx ran slower that all the deus sees the ctx will to . So what I'm doing now is trying to get those coins that I know that are there .Using the ctx with the standard modes is still a better machine than the e-trac or explore .

As far as the e-trac the ctx is more stable which equals deeper, faster processor , for more imfo the ability to change 4 disc patterns at the push of the button and target trace better separation the list go's on .
In time you well see where the ctx will be superior to the e-trac no different than the e-trac being superior to the explorers just give it some time .

As far as you buying a ctx yes there expensive but in the end you get what you pay for Remember the next ctx bother that comes out will only be more expensive the choice is yours .
This is my 47th year swinging I started with a $19.99 bfo detector in 1969 how times have changed .sube

 

[Bell-Two]

I did a test of this yesterday in two fields that have been hunted hard and have massive iron. I would run my typical no descrim combined with iron line set at 25 in ferrous coin. The other setup was the one you used in the video. I would get a signal and I would check it with both setups, a couple of times the Conduct program would give a repeating high tone target and when I switched my regular program would give only a scratchy high tone and would fade on the angle as I circled around it, the Conduct program would give a repeatable high tone on all angles....my judgment from my experience with my regular program that it would be iron falsing and when I dug it ....it was iron every time now once I had opened the hole and shoveled the target still in the dirt but now on top of the ground the conduct program was telling me it was iron....my conclusion the Conduct program works ok on a surface target but on a buried target not so much. Every target that the Conduct program said was a good high tone that I checked with my regular program that was telling me it was a good target too turned out to be a high conductive target...such as a harmonica reed or organ reed etc. I will play with it more to see if I can replicate these results.

 

[GKMan]

So, I tried to recreate Sube's settings and work them hard in a field that has been Oh so good to me over the years. It was just filled with coppers, dandy buttons, and other great early relics when I started there. But now the field is barely giving up a thing.

I was comparing the High Trash, 4 Tone CO, with the 30 to 35 line discriminated out with my normal mode which is Combined, Ferrous Coin and a little bit of discrimination. I ended up digging a lot of trash like a bolt, a piece of iron, a couple more square nails. But then, I did make one recovery that I must say I would have passed by normally using my usual mode of detecting. That one, I unfortunately did not film form the beginning since I was getting tired of doing so, but, if you are interested in seeing the recovery of the mystery object, click on the second link below and jump to about the 2:45 mark

My normal mode compared to Sube's using a nail dime nail
https://goo.gl/photos/oETYVmX8YkwqoKqx8



Go to about 2:45 for the recovery of... Something...
https://goo.gl/photos/W2rnCgwF6rET3E2m8

I plan on testing this mode out some more to see if it can possible stir up some other finds I undoubtedly missed at other locations.