uh oh. ground tracking. more unstable?

[bubbadirect]

Monte, Keith Southern, TNSharpshooter, others...I just opened my bag and looked at my ground tracking button (haven't had the unit out since last week's hunt) and noticed it was in the I position and not the O. I did a search on the forum and read Monte's response about ground tracking to I think bryannagirl.

So my question is this...since I relic hunted between a few different spots and had the GT button set to I and not turned off (I'm almost certain it was like this all day), WOULD THIS have made the unit more unstable? More feedback chatter like I had in the cow pasture and old soybean field?

Did I lose depth or maybe have issues with the targets and digging those "trickies"?

After reading his post, reading the manual again a few times, and looking at what my unit was set at...well, I said to myself "uh oh"

Thank you
Bubba

 

[squirrel1]

First you can look in your side screen. If tracking is on you'll notice the flashing in the screen above the battery symbol. With tracking on you can still do a ground grab GB. And I do this. As far as tracking GB causing instability. It could, but the area/site would have to be super laden with iron/nails or trash. The tracking system seems to work well, if used in the correct spots. And the reason you may have experienced a little extra chatter is because the tracking feature had you running closer to your actual ground setting. You see, if you run for example your ground balance a few points higher than actual ground setting, your unit will run quieter. But this extra quietness can come with a price. You could lose a little detection depth.

 

[bubbadirect]

Thank you squirrel. I thought you would gain depth by taking it off ground tracking in Di3 or Di2 mode? And the manual states putting it into the "positive" by raising the number might help with smaller items?

I'm just wondering how much better I would have done, had I NOT had it in auto tracking?

Bubba

 

[Monte]

Monte, Keith Southern, TNSharpshooter, others..

Monte here, but I can't speak for the others.

I just opened my bag and looked at my ground tracking button (haven't had the unit out since last week's hunt) and noticed it was in the I position and not the O. I did a search on the forum and read Monte's response about ground tracking to I think bryannagirl.

I'd have to look back and find out what I said, but if it had to do with Ground Balance, then I'm sure my response here will parallel what I said and possibly add some more or clear some thoughts up.

I noted here that you said ... "I just opened my bag and looked at my ground tracking button" ... and that you haven't had it out since a week ago. Noticing that the Tracking switch was flipped into the upper 'I' position, for Tracking 'On' instead of the lower '0' position for 'Off' could have been an accidental bumping of the rocker switch when putting it the bag or even possibly when removing it. I don't use detector bags so I don't handle them in such a manner that I could have accidently bumper it. It's possible that you had the Auto-Tracking 'Off' a week ago, but it's been a spell and maybe you're not using the FORS frequently enough to remember? That happens, especially with a newer detector you're trying to learn.

So my question is this...since I relic hunted between a few different spots and had the GT button set to I and not turned off (I'm almost certain it was like this all day), WOULD THIS have made the unit more unstable?

It's not a question of WOULD that have made the unit more unstable, but COULD it have hampered the detector's performance. If you were hunting a wide-open grassy area, or even a plowed field that was smoothed out, and if the ground was very uniform in consistency, and if there were very few targets and they were spaced well apart, then it's likely the use of Tracking GB wouldn't differ much from an automated or manually adjusted Fixed GB. Unchanging ground and only sporadic targets would not be anything significant for Auto-Tracking to deal with.

However, if you are using the Auto-Tracking function Ground Balance at a site with widely varying ground mineral make-up, or ground that is uneven, not uniform in consistency, or plagued with hot or cold rocks, you could have a problem. If you are searching a site that has an abundance of iron debris, such as rusty tin, iron nails, and other ferrous metal or even spots of dense, rust residue from decayed/decaying iron objects, they you very well could have some issues arise from using the Tracking function.

Ground Balance, other than working on very low-low, positive-conductive wet salt environments, is designed to deal with the negative iron/ferrous mineralization, Thus, if hunting a site with a lot of, or frequently encountered, iron targets, even smaller in size, you run the risk of having the Ground Balance off-track to the iron targets. More often than not, this might result in a GB setting that is more negative than the adjacent natural ground composition.

Recommended GB function by Nokta Detectors and Makro Detectors: On Page 19, 3rd paragraph [size=small](only one sentence)[/size] of the FORS CoRe manual under Ground Tracking, and on Page 14, 3rd paragraph [size=small](only one sentence)[/size] of the Racer manual under Tracking, it recommends we only use the Tracking function in the GEN./All Metal mode and not in any of the three motion-based Discriminate modes. Why? Because we more frequently search in the Discriminate modes in trashier sites, and also because most hobbyists use an ample amount of Discrimination to reject unwanted trash, such as iron, and therefore they would not hear the presence of iron, but the detector's Ground Tracking circuitry would, and therefore it COULD off-track and the result might be poor performance and/or falsing or noisy operation.

More feedback chatter like I had in the cow pasture and old soybean field?

Pasture land can present several problems. One is that big critters wander around on wet days and can displace some targets due to their animal weight resulting in targets that might be deeper than normal. They didn't 'sink' because coin's and other targets generally don't, but they were displaced. There's a big difference.

Also, working just such a pasture area last month, just as many times in the past, I have recovered Indian Head cents or old nickels and other 'keeper' type artifacts made of copper or bronze that came out of the ground in quite an ugly condition. The same ground, generally, on the other side of the fence would produce similar coins or trade tokens that were not as ugly. Why? Often because of the 'fertilizer effects' from either treatment of crop land, or ABC food [size=small](already been chewed)[/size] that pastured critters decorate the site with.

That kind of condition, be it from cattle [size=small](sheep, goats, horses, cows, bulls, mules, etc.)[/size] food-processing, chemical treatment of the planted crops, or even the types of crops that get tilled back into the ground, can cause changes in the ground mineral make-up and ground condition that could make frequent or abrupt changes in a GB setting or even the ferrous mineral composition. Such encounters have the ability to cause a detector to off-track from what would be a 'normal' GB setting.

The "chatter" could be from such conditions; from using Tracking; from running too high a Sensitivity level; from running too low a rejection level.

Did I lose depth or maybe have issues with the targets and digging those "trickies"?

Depth loss? It's possible, but I am not usually too concerned with 'depth' as much as I am 'functional performance.' For half a century of metal detecting, primarily concentrating on ghost towns, homesteads, stage stops, pioneer and military encampments, as well as renovation sites for forty-six of those years come May 4th, I'd guess 95% off all the USA coins, trade tokens, buttons and other small artifacts I have found, including almost all of the oldest coins, have been in the surface to 4" range with only a small percentage of those coming from 5" to 6". I'm more concerned with being able to hunt in more challenging [size=small](trashy, target-masking)[/size] sites and get good hits on partially-masked targets.

In any type of challenging ground conditions, I am certain there could be some amount of impaired depth of detection. It might be slight or significant, and that's why I prefer models with a manual GB or a quick-and-efficient automated GB and then leave the GB set and not track to changes when in a Discriminate mode.

After reading his post, reading the manual again a few times, and looking at what my unit was set at...well, I said to myself "uh oh"

Thank you
Bubba

Hey, this is recreational metal detecting and it is made up of a lot of "uh-oh" moments. That's why we, and that's an all inclusive 'we', should always be attentive to our settings and making an effort to learn more about any detector and search coil performance, to include their strengths and limitations, to strive and improve our results afield.

So, reflecting back on what you did after opening the detector bag, life gets easy. You noticed the Ground Tracking switch was rocked upwards in to the 'I' position, and that was very good!

Was it good that you noticed it was in the Tracking position? No, not necessarily because it could have been accidently moved there during non-use.

It was good because with the Nokta FORS CoRe we SHOULD always make it a point to check the GB Tracking switch at start-up to be certain it is in the 'I' 'On' position, if we want to use it in the GEN All Metal search mode, or to be sure it is in the 'O' 'Off' setting for all other search mode choices. It might have been bumped and it might not have, but it is one control on that model we should always check first before, or immediately after, turning the detector 'On'.

Best of success on your next foray afield, Bubba, and don't fret if you might have missed a target or two. That means they will be there for you on your next visit.

Monte

 

[bubbadirect]

Monte, where did you get your spare
Rods for your extra coils? I would like to get more.

Also, you once again explained A LOT TO ME in your previous post. Thank you so very much! I don't have time right to copy and paste what you said, but your analysis about uneven "soybean fields" and "cow pastures" explain the "why" I was experiencing erratic behavior in those 2 areas (while the afternoon hunts in the grassy hills had Nooooooooooooooo issues whatsoever)

Also, I will always check from now on, to make sure the ground tracking is turned OFF

 

[bubbadirect]

Hey MONTE, I wanted to reach out to you again regarding the ground balance switch. Well....yesterday I had a chance to return to the halfway cut old soybean field and the cow pasture, that BOTH gave me so many issues with chatter and feedback the first time I had a chance to use the CoRe for relic hunting.

Well, this time, I MADE SURE THE auto ground tracking SWITCH WAS SET TO "O" and not "I" and it made all the difference in the world! What a pleasant and productive experience it was, just to have auto ground tracking turned OFF! It was much quieter and was a joy to use again! Lol

The ONLY thing I do not like is this...with the old soybean stalks sticking up out of the ground about 12 inches high, and trying to navigate them was a chore. But the MAIN THING I didn't like about them, was that when you "bump against them" and hit them with your coil, you tend to get false "beeps" and such from the machine. And I have become accustomed to this happening from my old whites xlt as well, due to the sensitivity settings used and high gain type machines.

I tried playing with the ID MASK settings, but see that it didn't help. And the more experience I get using the CoRe in civil war hunting/relic mode, the more that I truly prefer to have ID MASK set no higher than 10. I honestly believe that I wouldn't have found some of the tiniest pieces of lead if I would have had MASK set at 17, 23, or higher. Why? Because of the shapes, laying in the same hole with iron pieces at times, and depth, I would get anywhere from 10 on the ID reading up to 84 or so. And if some of those ferrous tones were blocked, I might have just passed over a decent target!

I'll post pictures when I get home, but the machine is now my FAVORITE of all time. I dug some very SMALL PIECES OF FOIL, which kinda ticked me off at times, and the shotgun shells 13 inches deep, but this is the price to pay for relic hunting. Why, because like forest Gump says "ya never know what your gonna get"

Bubba

 

[Monte]

Hey MONTE, I wanted to reach out to you again regarding the ground balance switch. Well....yesterday I had a chance to return to the halfway cut old soybean field and the cow pasture, that BOTH gave me so many issues with chatter and feedback the first time I had a chance to use the CoRe for relic hunting.

It sounds good that you made it back there, and it sounds interesting as you described the site: ... "old soybean field and cow pasture." In such environments, like some ghost towns I hunt that have areas where cattle are seasonally pastured and some areas also planted to crop, you can have some 'added ingredients' to the natural soil mineral make-up. Fertilizer for crops, tilled-under crop reside that decays, and the 'ingredients' found in cow-pies and urine. Not only can some of that residue have a negative effect on some lost targets, it can alter the ground mineral make-up and we need to be aware of that.

Well, this time, I MADE SURE THE auto ground tracking SWITCH WAS SET TO "O" and not "I" and it made all the difference in the world! What a pleasant and productive experience it was, just to have auto ground tracking turned OFF! It was much quieter and was a joy to use again! Lol

Yep! There's a time for it, but hunting many sites like you were and using the motion-based Discriminate mode, it is best to use the automated Ground Balance or manually adjust to the native soils at the spot you plan to hunt. As a rule, and as I stated in my post below, the Owner's Manual suggests to only use auto-tracking when in the 'GEN' threshold-based All Metal search mode.

The ONLY thing I do not like is this...with the old soybean stalks sticking up out of the ground about 12 inches high, and trying to navigate them was a chore. But the MAIN THING I didn't like about them, was that when you "bump against them" and hit them with your coil, you tend to get false "beeps" and such from the machine. And I have become accustomed to this happening from my old whites xlt as well, due to the sensitivity settings used and high gain type machines.

Most, not all but most, of the detectors I have used will periodically have some issues when the search coil gets bumped or jarred. Almost every brand might have a problem at times, but we can help curb the troubles with most detectors.

I had six kids and have 16 grand-children. When riding bikes or climbing trees and doing some other fun activities they would fall and get scratched or cut and need a little bandaging. There was an easy lesson to be learned and a simple suggestion from Dad/Grandpa to help them deal with bicycle and playing injuries. "Don't fall." When it comes to detecting in problem areas and you get falsing from hitting a search coil too hard on a non-movable object ... "Don't."

I use a slower, more controlled or methodical sweep speed, and I also use smaller-than-stock search coils to work in-between the rows of stubble. Fewer problems that way.

I tried playing with the ID MASK settings, but see that it didn't help. And the more experience I get using the CoRe in civil war hunting/relic mode, the more that I truly prefer to have ID MASK set no higher than 10.

If I am hunting urban Coin Hunting sites, I run my Discrimination no higher than an ID Mask setting of '23' with my FORS or Racer. Why? Because I like to know some trash is present, therefore I don't mind hearing some ferrous trash with the non-ferrous foil, tabs and screw caps. A setting of '23' will reject most iron nails and a lot of iron junk. I also use a '23' setting if I am in a very nail infested area at a ghost town, homestead or similar site.

Otherwise, if I am Relic Hunting, or working a more open, low-trash site, I often opt for Di2 but always leave my ID Mask at '10'.

I honestly believe that I wouldn't have found some of the tiniest pieces of lead if I would have had MASK set at 17, 23, or higher. Why? Because of the shapes, laying in the same hole with iron pieces at times, and depth, I would get anywhere from 10 on the ID reading up to 84 or so. And if some of those ferrous tones were blocked, I might have just passed over a decent target!

If the ferrous targets would have been rejected, you might have still heard the occasional upper-scale TID hits of '84' or so, but it is easy for a lot of people to bypass them if they are not consistent. I like to hear the iron response to know I am dealing with a terrible site or might have a partially masked target.

I'll post pictures when I get home, but the machine is now my FAVORITE of all time. I dug some very SMALL PIECES OF FOIL, which kinda ticked me off at times, and the shotgun shells 13 inches deep, but this is the price to pay for relic hunting. Why, because like forest Gump says "ya never know what your gonna get"

Bubba

The Nokta FORS is my favorite with a stock 7X11 DD coil, and even-up with the Makro Racer using the small; 4.[size=small]7[/size]X5.[size=small]2[/size] 'OOR' DD coil. I have worked several parks and some old homestead sites with the FORS CoRe and done very well hitting on non-ferrous targets at decent detection depths. It's a very pleasing detector to have in-hand, to be sure.

Monte