The new DEUS metal detector by XP metal detectors. Check it out.

[JASONSPAZ1]

First off I apologize for my previous posts. I forgot that I should not post links. So I ask all of you to do a net and youtube search for the DEUS metal detector by XP metal detectors.
I think they are based in France. If you do a search for XP metal detectors, you should find their website and see the DEUS. It looks like the direction that the U.S manufactures need to go in.
I wonder if their will be a U.S distribution? I am certain that Garrett, Whites, MInelab, and Fisher know about it, and might have a clone on their drawing boards.

Thanks
Jason

 

[SteveP(NH)]

This is like the 5th time someone has posted about the Deus, its kind of old news at this point......

The frequencies they use for the wireless system aren't compatible with FCC rules here so no one can commercially import them.

While the unit has some nice features none of them seem particularly earth shattering or unique except the wireless coils and they seem like more of an expensive, battery gobbling gimmick than a really useful feature to me. Plus the process of modulating the signal with a carrier wave and then demodulating it later is going to add lag to getting a signal to the operator (over using a wire).

So while a feature or two might get incorporated into a new detector design I can't see some one else "cloning" it.

 

[Turtleman]

the unit has 4 frequencies. 4,8,12 and 18. Why would they not meet fcc rules? Can't see that being true.
Wireless coils. I sure hope we don't try and come up with any new technology like that. Let's just keep pumpin out those black tin boxes
with the little nobbies on top.

 

[SteveP(NH)]

Its not the frequencies transmitted by the coil to find metal - its the wireless frequencies used to send data from the coil to the control box and the headphones.

 

[Nauti]

Early reports over here in England do not seem to be too favourable.It's just technology for technologies sake......it won't make a big difference to anybodies finds rate......it's just there to make the manufacturer more money.

 

[Turtleman]

Hi Steve
I was pretty sure you were not talking about the freq trans by the coil that you were talking about, it just seemed strange to me that in the face of a new tech, wether good or bad, your first response was to throw up a red herring like FCC rules. Seemed more like a response that would come from a dealer or manufacturer. I have know idea wether this new tech is good or bad and we may never know but it's just nice to see a mfg. think outside the box instead of just reworking old technology, raising the prices and changing the model number. Or maybe hobbiest type detectors have reached their limits. Just my two cents.

Nauti
Is the detector actually for sale yet. when I looked at their web site it said coming soon. Have you actually seen one? It also seems a little strange to me that a company would spend thousands developing a new technology and then the first e see of it is on a poor production home made you tube video. I think with a lot of the detector mfg, the bean counters have to stop trying to be the marketing guys.

Have a good one guys!!!

 

[BarnacleBill]

Turtle as someone involved in product development of RF based products I can guarantee you that the FCC issue is not a Red Herring. Without certification testing by a lab, which are certainly available in Europe, the product cannot be imported into the U.S. for commercial sale. Individuals have purchased some of their previous offerings for private use in the U.S., even though operation of any of the wireless portion is still illegal.

If XP were interested in or even capable of setting up a U.S. based operation, they would have developed the new product with U.S. certification in mind. As it stands they appear to have no interest in the U.S. market at this time, though that could change in the future.

As to the merits of the "new" design. I believe that UK Brian in another thread pointed out that the "innovations" are nothing new, they've been done previously by other companies/individuals. What "appears" to have been nicely done(at least in photos), is the industrial design packaging aspect of the product.

However, as someone that works "in the business" I have some reservations about the reliability/practicality of the design. Three separate sets of batteries is never a good thing, coupled with questions like:

1. Are they common off the shelf batteries or special design?
2. Are they all charged in unison?
3. How & where(factory) do they get changed out if they wear out or leak?
4. If they have to be changed out at the factory what's the charge for doing that?

The Achilles heal here is that a problem with any of the three battery packs results in a dead detector.

The wireless aspect is another area of concern, because wireless is never 100% reliable. If you read through the forums you'll notice that EMI is a problem with wired detectors. And there have been some EMI issues with the wireless headphones of the White's V3. That is, the wireless link to the headphones is the incursion point of the EMI, not the detector itself. The new XP design doubles the opportunity for that to occur and could make it very difficult to troubleshoot EMI problems.

I have not really looked closely at all of the aspects or operation of the detector, because as I believe Steve rightly points out, it's a dead matter for those in the U.S..

It may sound like I'm bashing the company or design. I'm not, just looking at it with the critical eye of someone that's involved in looking for failure points in designs. It may sound rather pessimistic, but many an otherwise wonderful product has been thrown on the trash heap because of a singular critical flaw that was not foreseen. Curmudgeons also do serve a purpose!

HH
BarnacleBill

 

[SteveP(NH)]

it's just nice to see a mfg. think outside the box instead of just reworking old technology, raising the prices and changing the model number. Or maybe hobbiest type detectors have reached their limits. Just my two cents.

That is just my problem with the excitement over the Deus - the stuff that some people seem to get excited about doesn't do a thing to move the limits of hobby detectors forward in their basic purpose - finding and ID'ing metal under the ground. The new things about the Deus don't have a thing to do with those basic functions. Have you seen one thing in the marketing materials about innovation making the target ID more accurate? or increasing the effective depth of the machine? I haven't - its all be about replacing a cheap 5 foot length of coil wire with an expensive wireless system that is not going to help anyone find a single target they wouldn't have already been able to find using the same machine with a coil wire. How can a new method to fold up the detector when it is not in use help find any more targets? The machine isn't even turned on when this amazing new feature is in use!

Compare the "innovation" of this machine with the innovations that other companies have done when they introduced new machines recently - for instance look at the Minelab X-Terra series - you change the frequency that the machine is working at by change the search coil. The different frequency coils are wound to be optimized for their frequency to insure maximum depth and target ID accuracy for the intended type of target the coil is intended for. White's new V3 displays the output of each of its 3 frequencies (a main frequency and two harmonic ones so it can use the same coil for all three) so you can see how the target reacts to each frequency - the analyse screen displays a little target size bar under the graph of the frequencies so you can get some sizing information. First Texas has been pushing the speeds that detector cpus run at to get much better recovery times and they have also spent their R&D dollars designing a very tight DD coil both of these features work together to improve the detector's recovery time and provide better target separation in trashy areas. They have also spent a time improving the ergonomics of their machines without using complex, expensive technology when cheap proven technology can do the same thing. Each of these companies have chosen to spend their R&D dollars in areas that are trying to improve the abilities of their machines to do a better job at their basic functions - to better detect and ID metal under the ground - not a bunch of fluff features that only raise the price of the machine without making it any better at finding metal.

 

[Nauti]

Hi Steve
I was pretty sure you were not talking about the freq trans by the coil that you were talking about, it just seemed strange to me that in the face of a new tech, wether good or bad, your first response was to throw up a red herring like FCC rules. Seemed more like a response that would come from a dealer or manufacturer. I have know idea wether this new tech is good or bad and we may never know but it's just nice to see a mfg. think outside the box instead of just reworking old technology, raising the prices and changing the model number. Or maybe hobbiest type detectors have reached their limits. Just my two cents.

Nauti
Is the detector actually for sale yet. when I looked at their web site it said coming soon. Have you actually seen one? It also seems a little strange to me that a company would spend thousands developing a new technology and then the first e see of it is on a poor production home made you tube video. I think with a lot of the detector mfg, the bean counters have to stop trying to be the marketing guys.

Have a good one guys!!!

It is for sale over here and i think there is a waiting list at most outlets.As i mentioned earlier,first impressions(from what i've read)don't seem too favourable.Everybody over here seems to have jumped on the Deus bandwagon because other xp models,especially the goldmax power,have been so successful.The power set a really high standard over here in terms of recovery speed....you could find the tiniest coins in amongst heavy iron although it has a bit of a learning curve.I have to agree with the last post in the fact that xp seem to have introduced technology that is not really going to help anybodys finds rate.The problem today is that everyone is technology mad and people are forgetting that the things that make a good detector have not changed for decades such as recovery speed,depth, and stability.I think in these areas technology is as far as it can go at the moment so manufacturers have to come up with things that will sell detectors for one sole purpose...to make money.

 

[Turtleman]

Steve
They've barley got the first one out of the box yet and your already condeming it. From what i understand XP has made some pretty good detectors that may rival the f75 for recovery speed and target seperation, so maybe there's something to be learned from the lads on the the other side of the pond. Buy the way what do you hunt with. I've got all the latest technology of coarse. Fisher CZ6A and a 1991 ford f150.
I like to look at all the new stuff, and the question I always ask is will I find much more than I already find with my CZ.
As far as wireless technology goes the more I think about it the less I like it, and for me thinking outside the box doesn't have to just apply to the electronics. I loved my Explorer II with the coil cable inside the shaft, the batteries in the upper shaft and the headphone jack exactly were it
should be, at the end of the shaft so the cable is behind me. Somebody had to think about that, design it and spend the money on the tooling to build that. Not rocket science but made the detector very comfortable to use. So when I first saw the DEUS I thought Ah!!, someone thinkin.
Maybe that's why they build ferreries and we build fords.

Steve, Bill and Neil thanks for your thoughtful comments. We've had a pretty good discussion over a detector that none of us other than Neil will ever see. Neil we're counting on you to buy one of those babies and give us a full report.
Just one last comment. I think the other thing that is happening is the price point of the high end detectors at 1000-1500+ is making a lot of people question wether there is much to be gained with the so called new technology. If your a prospector and have a chance of recovering your cost in a short period the decision may be pretty easy, but if you just a coin hunter, little different.

cheers
Tom

 

[SteveP(NH)]

Turtleman - I am not necessarily condemning the detector as I haven't seen any real tests of its effectiveness or any marketing materials mentioning how effective it is at finding targets that couldn't be found by other machines. What I am condemning are attempts to paint it as some sort of revolutionary machine that other manufacturers should clone or use as an example of what they should be spending their research and development resources on. At least based on the features they seem to be using to market it.

You yourself said that you were tired of manufacturers just repackaging old technology and lauded them for thinking out side of the box to advance detector technology. I have seen no evidence that this machine does that in any substantial way that will make it a more effective target finder, especially at the $2000+ price tag I've seen mentioned for it.

You asked what machine I use - the answer is that the latest machine I purchased was a Teknetics T2. Its perfect for my style of relic hunting. The T2 doesn't have anything fancy, it doesn't even have a notch system. All of the technology put into it was focused on making a lightweight deep machine. I also won a X-Terra 705 at a hunt last April. Its a nice machine though it isn't quite as deep as the T2 but it is a bit more user friendly and requires less focus to hunt with than the T2. It does have a lot of useless features like preset patterns, notch system, ground tracking, target ID stabilizer but I just leave all that stuff shut off and hunt in all metal with it When equipped with the 3 Khz coil it provides a nice compliment to the 13 Khz T2. I usually hunt my farm fields with one machine then go over them again with the other.

 

[Steve(MS)]

"Or maybe hobbiest type detectors have reached their limits"
Yep, they have reached their limits and I agree with other posters about making more problems than it solves.
Not trying to beat up on you Turtleman as I like innovative new ideas but XP is not supported here in the States which can
be a cause for concern for potential buyers.
Like Nauti mentioned, performance of detectors hasn't changed much over the past 10 years of so.
Some newer models perhaps have their advantages but sometimes their quirks offset their advantages.
My thought is engineers should focus on better depth with better ID,
brainless depth doesn't suit my fancy, if it did, I would opt for the most powerful
pulse detector I could find.
I see a lot of US built detectors bought and used in the UK, I am sure there are some
good models made over the pond.
Someone will eventually get one here in the States if not already and maybe we will hear about it
but this detector will be very expensive over here.

 

[grumpyolman]

Interesting reading above. Lots of good points. I agree that most of the advancements touted are gimmicky. However, that manufacturer has made some good detectors in the past. Thanks for the straight info about FCC licensing.
I don't think we need a detector that goes a lot deeper. How many people and in how many places want to dig holes 12-18" deep. To go that deep figure how wide you have to make the hole unless you use something like a clam gun for grass.
What somebody really needs to make is a detector that can discriminate iron and aluminum, but will not reject gold or silver. I don't necessarily adhere to the laws of physics that the physical properties of the metal will never allow that to happen. No one has yet figured out how to do it. With the capability of today's micro circuitry, it sure isn't beyond the realm of possibility that something like that might be developed.
If that's too much, how about a clear, water proof, non-reflective color screen that can be seen in all light conditions? Or how about faster processors so the Minelab folks desiring FBS advantages don't have to swing at a snails pace, but still won't sacrifice depth?...Jim

 

[Nauti]

Hi Turtleman,just a quick word to say don't get rid of your fisher in a hurry.I've had the good fortune to test lots of different detectors in the past including xp,minelab,teknetics,tesoro,nautilus,whites and red heat.I now have 2 detectors that i will never get rid of and they are both American made.....seems like you lot know how to make em good.

 

[UK Brian]

Looking back at the previous XP models (I have two both low and high frequency) there was no problem importing or using them in the States until the headphone transmitter was incorporated into the circuit board. I had a few people from the U.S. who stayed with me who liked the machines for the fast recovery speed which is very important in iron. They took machines back but they didn't work to well in many areas. The low frequency machines had better depth so would be used on pasture, the high frequency Goldmaxx had the sensitivity and high recovery speed essential for small hammered coins but lacked in depth but this is not a problem if your working fields that had been recently ploughed bringing coins and artifacts to the surface. So you needed two machines to work an average farm site. No true ground balance which is O.K. in mild conditions.
Soon after the introduction of the Goldmaxx a change was made as people had difficulty with the tones. You could pay for a rechip and most took advantage of this as it seperated the tones out better.
The option of wireless headphones was introduced.
Then the "Power" version of the Goldmaxx was introduced and this had the wireless head phones transmitter on the circuit board so was not legal in the States. You gained extra depth but lost the normal, shall we call it "Tesoro" discrimination control that most motion machines have. With the original Goldmaxx you could use the all metal mode with adjustable iron rejection or the standard type of rejection. On some sites one would work better, on others the other. I could I.D. iron easier with the old machine and infact would often run maximum iron acceptance (rather than rejection) which improved depth so for me it was better to stick with the original model.
Again XP found it necessary to re chip their new machine not long after launch. This boost the faint deep signals that were hard to distinguish.

There were a few problems with the wireless headphones of the new model and modifications had to be made I think both to the battery used and the charger. What continued to worry me was that though two channel this did not provide a solution to interference. There were posts from people who found that the number of finds made if they were detecting a site where another Power was being used fell. They would select different channels but this did not solve the problem. The U.K. distributor came up with a solution. This was to both use the same channel to maximise the cross interference and then keep sufficiently far apart so that no interference is heard. The suggestion was that though using different channels there would still be a degree of interference you would not be aware of but would be affecting performance.

Now by this time the T2 and Fisher 75 had arrived. Lighter, more options and just as fast a recovery speed. I tried both and stayed with the T2 after its build problems were sorted. Many others began to switch to the U.S. machines for a variety of reasons including the total lack of beach performance of the Power but mainly for the increased versitility of the American offerings. My Goldmax was sold at this point as I could go to sites with just the T2 rather than having to carry both low and high frequency XP's. There's nothing like a loss of sales to concentrate the mind of a manufacturer and so the Deus came into being. Unfortunately First Texas managed to improve their flagship models and came up with the LTD models. More performance without gimmicks.

The Deus has arrived in the shops. Eighteen inches on a coin, option of even faster recovery speed etc. As it started to arrive the coin "depth" turned out to be in air and had dropped to 16 inches. By the time I got to see one it was 14 inches (on a large copper coin). For the first time since the low power XP 100 they had a beach machine. Or did they. Better than what had come before but it would be hard to be worse. I haven't been able to try the new model on the wet sand but the facts are there to be seen. No twin or multifrequency mode and the suggestion that the coil should be kept at a constant height and it would be best if the beach was flat. XP themselves state its not intended to replace the Power. It seems to be a similar machine that offers the chance of increased performance by offering more adjustments so a similar situation to when Whites had the 6000 Pro machines for those who liked analogue meters and knobs or the digital screen Spectrum/XLT with touchpads and menus and hundreds of adjustments.
The option of recovery speeds far faster than the old model and T2/F75 seems at first attractive but faster recovery = less depth. Slower recovery will mean more depth for pasture sites. The ability to select one of four frequencies will be a plus for some but the old adage that low frequency gave more depth, high, more sensitivity no longer applies with careful circuit and coil design.

The major thing that worries me is that a premium price is being charged and the justification seems to be the wireless aspects of the detector rather than performance. I packpack into remote areas, go to desert islands etc and end up with power being a major worry. Having three parts of a machine that need charging rather than one does not thrill me. Ten hours running time from the coil though if its a busy site its going to be less. Recharge can be done at home with a mains charger, in the car with a in car charger, or in the field by transferring power from a set of conventional batteries. (seems the latter two will be included in the dealer machine packs but will be an optional extra for everyone else). If the coil battery fails and they can't be overcharged or allowed to run to low or they won't take a recharge, your finished. A sealed coil that needs to be returned to a dealer to be opened, battery replaced and resealed.

What I feel they should have done is have the Deus for those who have plenty of money to spend and want to feel they are cutting edge and have a conventional wired machine at a lower price for everyone else.

 

[grumpyolman]

Might want to research solar charging panels if you are out in the brush. HAM radio folks use them and have them in their kit. Jim

 

[Monte]

n/t

 

[SteveP(NH)]

This is the first real review of the machine I've seen that talks about the important aspects of its operation instead of the marketing bull.

 

[Carl-NC]

The only limits detectors have reached is the limits imposed by electronics technology. Past limits have included the limits of vacuum tubes, the limits of discrete transistors, the limits of opamps, the limits of simple micros, the limits of character displays, and the limits of monochrome graphics. I think you will like what comes along over the next 3-5 years, most of it based on new electronics capabilities. XP seems to be doing some innovative things, but some of them not what I would have chosen. I question whether a wireless coil really solves an outstanding problem, and whether folks will want to pay $400 for every loop they buy. It is slick looking, tho.

- Carl

 

[Turtleman]

Now that it's in the shops maybe we'll get an actual user field report. Much like the F75 when it first came out there seemed to be a lot of problems,but as some experienced users got to sort through it, turns out to be a great machine. I think with some of the new technology and the multitudeof features there is a longer learning curve. Takes time to sort through all the bull.

Time tells all.