The dreaded Iron Question with some pictures.

[Jason in TN]

Most machines will still hit on the coin with the nail laying on top of the coin. That's no big deal.

Ole Streak done a demo up in Virginia and I would like to see your results with the Vision if you were to do the same test.

Take a little tupperware bowl with the lid. Tape the nail on the lid side of it and tape your coin of choice to the bottom of the bowl and run the detector over that. There may only be 2-3 inches of space between the nail and coin but I would probably guess your results will be different than you just placing the nail directly on top of the coin.

How did his test come out and what detector was he using?

 

[Doctorcoinz]

On sites that you know have targets masked out by iron , sites that you know are "worked out" then my method is to start digging all iron signals and having a look inside the hole once the iron is out to see if any good targets are still down there. This is hard work but you can still come across good targets this way , targets others walked over , these are the best finds cos you get a lot of satisfaction from finding these really hard to get few remaining coins still buried underground.............

 

[crazyman]

This was briefly discussed in an earlier thread. I asked someone to try this test with the Vision or any detector for that matter and after testing the Vision like all of today's detectors would not hit the coin in the test. I doesn't matter what you use as long as you discriminate out the masking target. I've yet to see any detector pass this test. I've been told that the old 100 kHz. TR detectors did better in this test though.

 

[OzarkTom]

This was briefly discussed in an earlier thread. I asked someone to try this test with the Vision or any detector for that matter and after testing the Vision like all of today's detectors would not hit the coin in the test. I doesn't matter what you use as long as you discriminate out the masking target. I've yet to see any detector pass this test. I've been told that the old 100 kHz. TR detectors did better in this test though.

The Compass 77B would pass this test easily, but it did not discriminate. The main problem today, with these old detectors, the depth has really gone to pot. Transistors and capacitors get old and weak.

 

[;hgarr]

Hi Jason in TN.........In an early Western and Eastern magazine, Tom Dankowski was explaning his results while using a (I believe) a GP-2200 and how it would find a quarter about 3 inches below a bobbie pin (known as the Dankowski effect). The little bobby pin would completely mask out the quarter on his other machines. Few machines will pass this test even today, but I would be interested in someone trying to fined how far above the coin the nail can be before the nail masks out the quartet. If I remember corrtectly, a discriminition setting was used that would just kill the bobby pin that was buried at about 3 inches in the ground, then the quarter could not be heard if is was buried 6 inches deep, 3 inches deeper than the bobbie pin. I tried this with the XLT and the DFX and it worked, but I then could hear the quarter using the Bigfoot tip held at about a 45 degree angle off to one side of the test targets. Brings back old memories. HH, How.

 

[Daniel Tn]

Streak didn't even use a nail when he did it. He had a simple little staple. Results were that it totally knocks both targets out. He done it with a staple and a New York civil war button. You would have walked over it and never knew it was there like that.

 

[Southwind]

Here is a video of the DFX and an iron nail. I'm sure the Vision can do just as well or better.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVzW5B5mMr0[/video]

 

[Brett]

What are your DFX settings that allow you to do this? I had my Dad try something similar with his DFX last year and he definitely was having trouble with the nails just 1" away from the dime, if at all. I don't believe we tested the nail on top of the iron with his detector, but I don't think it would have worked.

 

[Jason in TN]

What are your DFX settings that allow you to do this? I had my Dad try something similar with his DFX last year and he definitely was having trouble with the nails just 1" away from the dime, if at all. I don't believe we tested the nail on top of the iron with his detector, but I don't think it would have worked.

Do not think the DFX will recover that fast.

Jason

 

[Brett]

What are your DFX settings that allow you to do this? I had my Dad try something similar with his DFX last year and he definitely was having trouble with the nails just 1" away from the dime, if at all. I don't believe we tested the nail on top of the iron with his detector, but I don't think it would have worked.

Do not think the DFX will recover that fast.

Jason

Watch that video two posts up Jason... apparently it does. I've always wondered if these machines are set hot or something just for the particular test being done. Hopefully Southwind can shed some light on it because I think it's his video... it was posted on YouTube yesterday.

 

[Jason in TN]

What are your DFX settings that allow you to do this? I had my Dad try something similar with his DFX last year and he definitely was having trouble with the nails just 1" away from the dime, if at all. I don't believe we tested the nail on top of the iron with his detector, but I don't think it would have worked.

Do not think the DFX will recover that fast.

Jason

Watch that video two posts up Jason... apparently it does. I've always wondered if these machines are set hot or something just for the particular test being done. Hopefully Southwind can shed some light on it because I think it's his video... it was posted on YouTube yesterday.

Yea he can get it pretty close should only swing from the nail side though. I found in my testing that the vision would get it about anywhere with the nail turned like that in common mode. Turn the nail long ways to the target and some adjustments will have to be made.

Jason

 

[Southwind]

I did the same test with the nail sideways and the results were the same. I will say with the nail directly on top of the coin there was just a tab bit more break in the tone, but it was still a tone I would investigate.

The key is your discrimination settings. This test was done with my normal custom program that is used at 90% of the places I hunt. Accept +93 down to -20 and also accept -93 and reject +94 & +95. I dig a lot of coins that have nails in the same hole. There are no tricks being used in this video. What you see is what you get. As you can see from this picture the nail used is quite big. Bigger than most I find in the average situation.

 

[Southwind]

Here is the program I used. The DFX is quite amazing if you take the time to learn how to use it.

http://www.detectorplace.com/detecting/totlot.rtf

 

[Brett]

Thanks Southwind! I'm going to try this with my DFX and Vision just as soon as I can.

 

[OzarkTom]

Thanks Southwind! I'm going to try this with my DFX and Vision just as soon as I can.

Also try it with a shot glass, Brett. Put the nail resting on top of the the shot glass, the coin underneath the glass. That would be the real world scenario in the treasure hunting field. Someone here already said the Vision failed on that test. But all detectors actually do except the old 100 KHZ Tr's back in the 70's. So if someone dropped an 1865 Carson mint $20 gold coin, then 100 years later, someone smashes a tin can directly over the gold coin, the gold coin will remain until someone digs the rusty tin can up.

 

[Southwind]

I see a problem with the shot glass scenario. I tried the nail up to 2-3" above the dime and was still able to pick it up, but beyond that it began to fail. The problem is at some point the dime is far enough away from the coil that the nail easily overpowers the faint signal of the coin. True this would be a "real world" scenario, but only one of many possible scenarios. No detector will be able to detect the coin once the coins signal becomes faint enough for the nail to take priority.

My test was done in my shop and with no adjustments to the gain(PAG/ACSens). I'm sure had I don't it outside and cranked it up I could have gotten a signal with the coin 3-4" below the nail. That is still a pretty respectable showing in my opinion. I also realize this air test does not depict what might happen in the ground. Here in southwest Kansas, our ground is pretty mellow so I'm sure I could get close to the same results in the ground. In fact I do get the same results as I have dug many coins out with nails in the same hole.

Now as far as the old TR's. I used many good TR units back in the day and while they were good at this type of situation, I don't think they would pass the 3-4" test either. The reason is, from my memory, it took a lot of skill, and luck, just to get 6" in depth. If you have a coin below the nail at 4" and you swing the coil above the nail at say 2", you're looking at needing to hit the coin at 6" from the coil. A good feat for the old TR's even without a nail on top.

 

[go-rebels]

In my test bed at home, my Fisher F75 fails the test with a small nail buried 1" with silver dime buried 3" under the nail. I'm actually going to move the nail 6" over to allow some meaningful comparison data to be taken from this target.

 

[bfodnes]

It means alot to me and many others that You like it Jim... Your name adds up on the list of experienced detectorists that like the machine without biased opinions....

HH

bjorn

 

[Brett]

Good info Southwind! Thanks for taking the time to run this test. I've found plenty of coins in holes with nails and other item that cause the detector to null. These were with my SE Pro and E-Trac. Just think how many barber quarters and halfs and just about every other 100 year old coins that are under nails around home sites and old fair sites. Shoot, every old park I go to has tons of old nails down deep too, down where the silver usually comes out from. Your testing is real world enough for me. Of course, NOW there is snow on the ground again. Grumble.

 

[go-rebels]

I tried the nail up to 2-3" above the dime and was still able to pick it up, but beyond that it began to fail. The problem is at some point the dime is far enough away from the coil that the nail easily overpowers the faint signal of the coin.

This is very interesting! I'll try an air test with my f75 tonight and try to duplicate your results. I'd be very suprised to see a positive (silver) signal. If the nail is 1" from the coil, and the dime is 3" below the nail, the signal from the dime should be plenty good, except for the masking.

I'm sure had I don't it outside and cranked it up I could have gotten a signal with the coin 3-4" below the nail. That is still a pretty respectable showing in my opinion. I also realize this air test does not depict what might happen in the ground.

With a Vision, I'd love to see someone actually do this test outside. I'm not so sure I agree with your assumption.