Find's Treasure Forums
Welcome to Find's Treasure Forums, Guests!
You are viewing this forums as a guest which limits you to read only status.
Only registered members may post stories, questions, classifieds, reply to other posts, contact other members using built in messaging and use many other features found on these forums.
Why not register and join us today? It's free! (We don't share your email addresses with anyone.) We keep email addresses of our users to protect them and others from bad people posting things they shouldn't.
Click here to register!
Need Support Help?
Cannot log in?, click here to have new password emailed to you
Changed email? Forgot to update your account with new email address? Need assistance with something else?, click here to go to Find's Support Form and fill out the form.
The ACe 250 and the Silver uMax
- Thread starter Old Katz
- Start date
The Silver is a better detector than the Ace by a long shot. Not only because of the different operating frequency but becuae of its fast recovery/response time (the Ace has a slow recovery time). Most people think that the Ace is the best thing since sliced bread, I am not one of them. If it was faster & there was a way to turn off that nasty belltone sound it would be a pretty good machine. Some people will argue with me but I believe that just alittle difference in kHz's (frequency) makes a big difference. The Silver uMax is a great coin and jewelry detector but in my opinion the older 12kHz Tesoro's are alittle better jewelry hunter. I just sold a really nice White's Eagle II detector because I got very very few nickels & no jewelry with it, great getting all the other coins at good depths but I like to find jewelry. The Eagle ran at 6.59kHz & that why I believe it didn't get the low conductive items. Steve.
Lower frequency penetrates deeper, but the trade off is it won't sound off on smaller metal as well. The best nugget machines can operate at 24-50kHz, but will only find the smallest of nuggets just below the surface (or anything else for that matter). Hanging between 7 and 15kHz seems to have the best of both worlds.
I had an ACE 250 and liked it. It's not as deep as my Tesoro's, but the ID was a plus over sound only, and it was usually right on. Like Steve said, though, the retuning was slow, and you had to carefully pinpoint every sound. The ACE has been good to lots of people, so I won't degrade it.
What bothers me about Tesoro is that all these companies are coming out with multi ground balancing options, segments with VDI numbers, confidence meters, etc. and we have yet to hear a peep out of Tesoro about and future R&D. The Cortez is getting passed by with it's fixed ground balance by less expensive detectors like the Teknetics Omega 8000 and Fishers upper F line. I'm not a big First Texas fan, but I have to respect that they are at least trying to do something to please the detectorist.
Dan
I had an ACE 250 and liked it. It's not as deep as my Tesoro's, but the ID was a plus over sound only, and it was usually right on. Like Steve said, though, the retuning was slow, and you had to carefully pinpoint every sound. The ACE has been good to lots of people, so I won't degrade it.
What bothers me about Tesoro is that all these companies are coming out with multi ground balancing options, segments with VDI numbers, confidence meters, etc. and we have yet to hear a peep out of Tesoro about and future R&D. The Cortez is getting passed by with it's fixed ground balance by less expensive detectors like the Teknetics Omega 8000 and Fishers upper F line. I'm not a big First Texas fan, but I have to respect that they are at least trying to do something to please the detectorist.
Dan
Trackerman
New member
I have both and like the ease if finding coins with the ace. Since it has an id makes it easyer to identify than the silver umax.Strangley enough thev Ace is a pretty good jewlry machine too. operantly on some detectors the frequency isnt as important .More so the design of the machine. I like the id of the Ace better but the silver umax is very easy to target with. Only problem with none id machines is you dig pennys like crazzy i dont like that. But some people do. Both machines have there advantages and disadvantages. With the Ace you can dig what you want. With the umax you have to dig everything. Of corse thats just the way i see it 
. Take it or leave it . Happy hunting
. Take it or leave it . Happy huntingWell, I have the Ace and I have the MXT as well. I thought it might be nice to try
another detector, another brand name and see what they are about. The Silver is
right about in my price range. If it's a better coin machine then It might be a smart thing
to do and buy it.
Katz
another detector, another brand name and see what they are about. The Silver is
right about in my price range. If it's a better coin machine then It might be a smart thing
to do and buy it.
Katz
I can buy that the Silver pinpoints better than the Ace (and the Silver doesn't even have a pinpoint button) but saying it can't hold a candle to the Ace for coins is another story. You must of got one very good one, because the two that I have had was no where near as good of a coin/jewelry hunter than any Tesoro I have owned, I bought two new Ace 250's and had a Ace 150 before that & have owned many different Tesoro models. Steve.trueblue said:
"I'm thinking about trying a Silver uMax. So besides the obvious difference that the Ace 250 has a view screen and the Silver does not, how do the two compare?"
Vastly different. Not really a fair comparison. But lets have a shot at it, eh?
The Ace has five Modes, the Silver none. You turn it on - and it is on. You set the DISC and SENS and that is it.
The Ace is fully digital. Charles Garrett wanted to put the most modern, digital electronics possible into a $200 detector. He succeeded. The Silver, on the other hand, is all behind the scenes high tech. Easy user interface. No touch pads, no tones nothing but a single beep and a few knobs. Analog modeling at its simplest.
The Ace has notch discrimination, which you select or deselect according to that which you seek. The Tesoro has what is called "progressive discrimination." you set the control to eliminate one level of trash and all below it - and keep everything else above that.
The Ace is kinda harsh and blaring, with its on-off response. Pinpointing is tough to master, too, for many. The Silver is smooth and responsive, being an analog model, and the pinpoint function isn't even there - it isn't needed! You can pin point in a second without it!
P.S. It does have an all metal mode, but I find it bothersome to be switching that switch all the time. In fact, a Silver Sabre II was my first detector, and is the reason I learned to use the "minds eye pinpoint" in the first place. It should be the goal of each detectorist to learn it, too.
The Ace uses 4 AA batteries, the Silver, one 9V cell. They are both well constructed, but points muat be given to the Tesoro, here.
The Ace was designed to be a mass market coup, which it was. It also depreciates quickly and can hardly be sold, these days, for more than $125-$150. The Tesoros always hold their value and should you ever need to sell it, you'll find the Silver commands a premium price on the used market.
Both offer a decent warranty, but Tesoro will repair the instrument at no cost, for the life of the piece. They don't have to, and if you read the fine print you'll find that abusing the detector may put an end to their benevolence. But, I have never heard of a Tesoro detector, sent to the factory in good faith, that they refused to fix for free. Garrett has some point where their warranty runs out - not so Tesoro.
SO again they are vastly different detectors, each with their strong points.
P.S. I'm lukewarm on the ACE 250, myself. It's okay, but to fully realize the promise that it begins to deliver on, you have to go to the GTP1350. Now there is a great intrument.
"I see the silver has 10 or 12 kHz coil as opposed to the Ace operating at about 7kHz.
Will that make it a better coin machine or did Tesoro make it a higher kHz to do better in hostile ground conditions?"
Neither, actually. The higher freq is better on lower conductivity items, as the lower frequency is better on coins. At least, that's the theory. Remember, Garrett has always been a coinshooters line, in the main. Charles Garrett, himself, has stated his conviction that 80% of all detectorists are looking for coins, most of the time. So the 7khz range has always been a Garrett stalwart, as it works best on U.S. coins.
By the same token, Tesoro has hovered around the 10-12khz mark on their detectors in the last 20 years. It is a good compromise frequency, good on items like small gold and some relics - and coins, which are dead easy to detect.
The optimum detector frequency is something like 13 or 14 khz., by the way, if I remember right.
So, the Silver plays more to that compromise. The Garrett favors the coin range, you could say, with it's lower frequency.
But it isn't that it matters much either way, except perhaps on the smallest of gold filigree or chains. Again, in theory, the Silver should do better on these.
Also, each maker seems to favor their own range of freqs. This is partly due to manufacturing simplicity, I'm sure. I work in the manufacturing sector, and have for years, so it makes sense to me. Why design a detector around whole new frequencies, when you have component inventories and engineering expertise matching the proven frequencies you already use?
The one exception are special purpose models, like beach machines and gold prospecting detectors.
Otherwise, it make sense to "stick with what you know works."
If you go back and look at the many Garrett and Tesoro detectors you'll see that this generally holds true, down through the years
Vastly different. Not really a fair comparison. But lets have a shot at it, eh?
The Ace has five Modes, the Silver none. You turn it on - and it is on. You set the DISC and SENS and that is it.
The Ace is fully digital. Charles Garrett wanted to put the most modern, digital electronics possible into a $200 detector. He succeeded. The Silver, on the other hand, is all behind the scenes high tech. Easy user interface. No touch pads, no tones nothing but a single beep and a few knobs. Analog modeling at its simplest.
The Ace has notch discrimination, which you select or deselect according to that which you seek. The Tesoro has what is called "progressive discrimination." you set the control to eliminate one level of trash and all below it - and keep everything else above that.
The Ace is kinda harsh and blaring, with its on-off response. Pinpointing is tough to master, too, for many. The Silver is smooth and responsive, being an analog model, and the pinpoint function isn't even there - it isn't needed! You can pin point in a second without it!
P.S. It does have an all metal mode, but I find it bothersome to be switching that switch all the time. In fact, a Silver Sabre II was my first detector, and is the reason I learned to use the "minds eye pinpoint" in the first place. It should be the goal of each detectorist to learn it, too.
The Ace uses 4 AA batteries, the Silver, one 9V cell. They are both well constructed, but points muat be given to the Tesoro, here.
The Ace was designed to be a mass market coup, which it was. It also depreciates quickly and can hardly be sold, these days, for more than $125-$150. The Tesoros always hold their value and should you ever need to sell it, you'll find the Silver commands a premium price on the used market.
Both offer a decent warranty, but Tesoro will repair the instrument at no cost, for the life of the piece. They don't have to, and if you read the fine print you'll find that abusing the detector may put an end to their benevolence. But, I have never heard of a Tesoro detector, sent to the factory in good faith, that they refused to fix for free. Garrett has some point where their warranty runs out - not so Tesoro.
SO again they are vastly different detectors, each with their strong points.
P.S. I'm lukewarm on the ACE 250, myself. It's okay, but to fully realize the promise that it begins to deliver on, you have to go to the GTP1350. Now there is a great intrument.
"I see the silver has 10 or 12 kHz coil as opposed to the Ace operating at about 7kHz.
Will that make it a better coin machine or did Tesoro make it a higher kHz to do better in hostile ground conditions?"
Neither, actually. The higher freq is better on lower conductivity items, as the lower frequency is better on coins. At least, that's the theory. Remember, Garrett has always been a coinshooters line, in the main. Charles Garrett, himself, has stated his conviction that 80% of all detectorists are looking for coins, most of the time. So the 7khz range has always been a Garrett stalwart, as it works best on U.S. coins.
By the same token, Tesoro has hovered around the 10-12khz mark on their detectors in the last 20 years. It is a good compromise frequency, good on items like small gold and some relics - and coins, which are dead easy to detect.
The optimum detector frequency is something like 13 or 14 khz., by the way, if I remember right.
So, the Silver plays more to that compromise. The Garrett favors the coin range, you could say, with it's lower frequency.
But it isn't that it matters much either way, except perhaps on the smallest of gold filigree or chains. Again, in theory, the Silver should do better on these.
Also, each maker seems to favor their own range of freqs. This is partly due to manufacturing simplicity, I'm sure. I work in the manufacturing sector, and have for years, so it makes sense to me. Why design a detector around whole new frequencies, when you have component inventories and engineering expertise matching the proven frequencies you already use?
The one exception are special purpose models, like beach machines and gold prospecting detectors.
Otherwise, it make sense to "stick with what you know works."
If you go back and look at the many Garrett and Tesoro detectors you'll see that this generally holds true, down through the years
I can put my silver at zinc penny, and with a solid 4 beep cross, I can tell you about 95% of the time it's a coin. The few times it is not a coin it's can-slaw. I'm curious trueblue, What points is the ace 250 better then the silver? My sister is looking for a machine and I was just wondering if I should tell her to look at the ace 250.How accurate is the screen at telling you what's under the ground? She is looking for a coin shooter and I told her that the silver was one of the best. She wants, "a screen so she doesn't dig any junk" her words. Should she look into the ace 250? Thanks, Dan
I HAVE both and I love both of them. The only thing is KNOWING each detector-and with the Ace that takes more time. As far as recovery time, I'm not bothered by that because I'm usually at relic or jewelry mode and a coin next to a pulltab will give one signal at normal sweep and two signals whenever I slow it down-in other words I'm at such a low discriminate that recovery doesn't matter too much-maybe next to iron it would. And I have seen the Silver give ONE signal on two close items, also. Also, the AREA searched has a big influence. I sometimes only have an hour or two and I'm not gonna be able to find much if I have to dig a bunch of tabs, etc. and the Ace's is pretty much dead on. I've watched the screen bounce from square tab to penny only to find it's a zincer that's badly eaten by oxidation., or a bent, malformed tab bounce from nickel to tab. When I'm at one of my schools that I've kept pretty clean over the years, I grab the Silver-take about two sweeps and drop my screwdriver dead on the coin with X-axis pinpointing, or Magic eye pinpointing as Dahut said-I even use THAT method on my Ace. The Ace has short, pointed sounds for some trash, long, smooth sounds on nickels and the dreaded square tab that mimics the nickel, and if there's a coin spill or a coin in the mix with trash it sounds like WWIII. The Silver has short trash sounds, sometimes clipped on both ends of the signal and sounds like honey flowing-it's so smooth- on coins. I'm so grateful to be able to have both of them. And they both find- as these two pics show- the Ace on the left and the Silver on the right.
nick hunter
New member
To answer the initial question, it's not only the frequency that makes the silver a better detector : the ACE doesn't let you discriminate in the ferrous range. I mean it doesn't allow you to eliminate small iron while accepting the rest.
Opening the iron range results in higher sensitivity to small gold. So a "jewelry mode" discriminating iron like on the ACE isn't the best option at all.
Here in Europe, many newcomers buy the 250 as their first detector, attracted by the digital screen, and rush to the next plowed field in quest for ancient artefact's and coins. The result is disappointment, the ACE being a terrible relic hunter.
Detectors should be used for what they were designed for, and according to their specifications. The ACEs are great coinshooting detectors, and will find gold rings with ease.
Smaller gold items, and especially 18k gold are other matters.
HH
Opening the iron range results in higher sensitivity to small gold. So a "jewelry mode" discriminating iron like on the ACE isn't the best option at all.
Here in Europe, many newcomers buy the 250 as their first detector, attracted by the digital screen, and rush to the next plowed field in quest for ancient artefact's and coins. The result is disappointment, the ACE being a terrible relic hunter.
Detectors should be used for what they were designed for, and according to their specifications. The ACEs are great coinshooting detectors, and will find gold rings with ease.
Smaller gold items, and especially 18k gold are other matters.
HH
Thanks SkiWhiz, I will tell her. She is dead set on a display model. She test drove my sons Whites prizm 5 and she liked how it told her what the target was. The Whites is a good machine but their was a couple times the display was telling her the target was a penny,and she dug it only to find a dime.She was disappointed that the display was off a little,that if she wasn't digging everything she may have passed over the dimes. I told her that no display is going to be right 100% of the time, and you will have to learn the machine you buy.If this hobby was all good and no trash everyone would be doing it! Thanks, Dan
Dan, that's a common complaint from new detectorists. The Ace also does that. It's also a reason for the popularity of detectors like the Silver. Most have to get used to the idea that the ID simply puts the target into a CATEGORY and is only a tool-just like getting used to the "sounds" of a detector like the Silver.
Thanks slingshot, I will pass that info on to her. I think I should tell her that part of the fun is the surprise when you dig something and it turns out to be something better than you thought it was going to be. Older coins,silver rings, GOLD! Although I still haven't found the gold yet,that will be a surprise after all the pull-tabs I have found. Thanks again, Dan
LoneCatDaddy
New member
For a newbie, I always recommend an Ace. Easy to use, and set in the Coin mode, she won't be digging a lot of junk. Just be sure to have the coil wire snug on the lower shaft or the coil will pick it up and false sometimes. Be sure to back the Sens. down to 4 bars too. The displays on most any machine will only give a probability of what the target is and seeing as how a copper penny and a clad dime have a mostly copper content, there can be times when a dime reads as a copper penny and a copper penny reads as a dime. And as for the Belltone on the 250, I love it, it's the Sound of Money or a silver ring. Be sure to get a set of 'phones with a Volume Control, it is loud with just plain 'phones on. Somebody posted that an F2 might be an alternative also. I wouldn't recommend it for a newbie. With it's 4 tones and variations thereof, it sounds like a circus caliope and would be pretty baffling for someone just starting. I bought one of the first ones out, used it a few times and now it sits behind the closet door.....but that's another story. I have a Fisher ID Edge (pre First Texas) that is a great little TID machine for most any situation, so I am not totally adverse to Fishers. I love my Tesoros too for certain dig-it-all situations, but for a pure coinshooter, the 250 will serve her well at a very reasonable price. But all of that is just my opinion and we all know what they say about opinions!!
LINDABONITA
New member
I have an ace 250 and a Compadre. The Ace 250 is an excellent machine for the money. The only bad thing about it, that I don't like, is the recovery time.
It seems that it was made for slow walkers or old people. Tesoros are fast with respect to recovery.
It seems that it was made for slow walkers or old people. Tesoros are fast with respect to recovery.
ds6191 said:
Actually, if that is her performance standard, she probably needs to look at another hobby.
I have tried many high end detectors and none of them are 100% accurate - a screen full of information does not guarantee that. Sorry, but there it is.
Many of the big dollar detectors are very good at identifying targets, mind you. But most all of them require experience to discern what they are telling you with any certainty. Someone else here said that TID detectors are only "target range identifiers," that is, they can qualify the range of conductivity a target falls into. They are right!
The Ace 250 is precisely that, an inexpensive target range identifier. It hardly offers information like the Prizm series does - and is no less accurate for it's simplicity. Some would say it is better, in fact, because it doesn't pretend to be deadly accurate.
I wonder how she will feel when she learns that 80% of all gold jewelry - the stuff that really pays - mimics either trash targets, or the lowly U.S. nickel.
You're right on. Ask her how much fun Christmas would be if you knew what each present was before you opened it. Also, I have found that planning a picnic or any other similar activity SHE'S interested in alongside the detecting makes it more of a FUN family activity.ds6191 said:
ds6191 said:
Ok Dan , without being long winded an borin ya to tears , I had an Ace 250 also a Silver Umax and have since parted with both I dont reget parting with the Silver but I sure do wish I had'a held onto the Ace ....for a start tones verse's beep now I know the Tesoro beep has alota subtle nuances not as easy to hear or learn as some would lead ya to belive but hey you know as much as you own a Silver ...the tones on the Ace easy enough to discern all ya need is ears ..... As for modes notching an all the rest handy stuff but I never used any of it , I hunted in all metal with the Ace and found it be very accurate tid an tones are usually on the money depth nearly allways off actual , the belltone hated by many ...I loved it also yeah as one member put it "the sound of $$ " I agree ,...As for PP'n yeah I read all the posts of how bad the Ace was but I never had any probs never used the PP button just x marks the spot ..
For example I got a paddock I hunt thats just riddled with tabs now I hate diggin tabs as much as the next bloke and this is where the ace leaves the silver for dead in my humble opinion and was just a pleasure to use not a chore like the Silver ya only choices are hav'n to thumb the disc on every taget or disc tabs out and loose all targets below ..on the ace just hunt in AM and use the tones 2 easy .....Another area I hunt the Ace is prettywell useless the joints riddled with melt'd alloy slag in every size an shape ya can imagine , no hope of pullin coins out with the ace here its belltone crazy on this site ,,,yet the silver can find the goodies juz by runn'n high disc an thumbin it ya pull $ 1 & 2 coins no probs sure you'll dig some slag an junk ...dont ya allways but this type a site aint nearly as common as ya standart tab mine field ..
I also found the Ace to be deeper than the silver in my test garden its as deep as my Tejon not as acurate at Id'n deep targets as the disc on the Tejon but atleast it can find'em the Silver couldnt ..
I reckon ya should get ya sister to try'em out see if ya can get a loan of an Ace an a Silver ....I needed a bita cash a mate was interested in a detector so he try'd the the Silver & Ace I had and after usin the ace then pickin up Silver he just hadda have the Ace ..I was hopin twould be the other way round ... good luck for Sis