I have been air testing my new Vaquero, and I notice that when I disc out iron and try holding an iron nail over a quarter I get no response even though some of the surface area of the quarter is still visible. Is this to be expected? I do recall the thread a while back concerning iron masking experiments in the field. It was pointed out, however, that metal detectors have come a long way in the past few years, so I am somewhat dismayed by this.
Find's Treasure Forums
Welcome to Find's Treasure Forums, Guests!
You are viewing this forums as a guest which limits you to read only status.
Only registered members may post stories, questions, classifieds, reply to other posts, contact other members using built in messaging and use many other features found on these forums.
Why not register and join us today? It's free! (We don't share your email addresses with anyone.) We keep email addresses of our users to protect them and others from bad people posting things they shouldn't.
Click here to register!
Need Support Help?
Cannot log in?, click here to have new password emailed to you
Changed email? Forgot to update your account with new email address? Need assistance with something else?, click here to go to Find's Support Form and fill out the form.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
target masking
- Thread starter Tseeker
- Start date
BarberBill
New member
I think the answer to this is - yes, sometimes.
BB
BB
I have a rusty iron spike virtually identical to the one in the video.
I put a nickel on top of the spike, set the discrim to "Iron" and tried it. Good clear signal in all directions. I tried the spike by itself and the machine was silent. It worked the same with the coin under the spike.
Tried the same thing with small silver ring too with the same result.
Maybe try going over the iron and adjusting the discrim until it just nulls out the nail then try it with a coin again.
The discrimination increments on the dial may not be accurate. I had to unscrew the discrim knob on my Cibola then calibrate it with a nickel then I tightened it back up. Now the iron, nickel and tab slots are dead on.
I put a nickel on top of the spike, set the discrim to "Iron" and tried it. Good clear signal in all directions. I tried the spike by itself and the machine was silent. It worked the same with the coin under the spike.
Tried the same thing with small silver ring too with the same result.
Maybe try going over the iron and adjusting the discrim until it just nulls out the nail then try it with a coin again.
The discrimination increments on the dial may not be accurate. I had to unscrew the discrim knob on my Cibola then calibrate it with a nickel then I tightened it back up. Now the iron, nickel and tab slots are dead on.
Uncle Willy
New member
The detector always responds to the target closest to the coil in the signal field regardless of how many are under it, rendering the other targets invisible. Your detector only sees the nail not the quarter. Remove the nail and it will respond to the quarter. This is what masking is all about.
Bill
Bill
Hay True Blue,
Dealers love to wave objects in front of a detector to get your attention.
Truth is that, that has little to do with how the MD will work in the ground.
Whe you swing a MD, the ground is moving and influencing the reception.
I mean, you don't even have to GB with the air test.
Believe me, that video is just pure smoke and mirrors.
I can get a few paper clips to confuse a Tejon, or most any VLF metal
detector for that mater.
Uncle willie is the smartest man I know. But I have my own thoughts.
I don't always listen. Bill probably doesn't completely agree with this
but:
If you have severe hearing loss or do not use good headphones,
this disscussion will have little value.
If you are well experenced, you will already know what I am fixen
to say and more. I welcome your input because I am still learning,
and love to have more input on the subject. That means you Bill.
Many people think of masking as trash being over a good target
and you just get the response of the trash target rather than the
good traget. I think a little different. I may be wrong but:
Actually masking is simply, more than one traget being within the
response area produced by the transmition and reception of your
MD.
So, as your coil approches a group of potential targets, first only
one target may start to respond, but suddenly traget number two may
change the response to the reception of both targets at the same
time. Then a third target may enter the field before the MD has had
time to fully respond to the first two objects. Now the MD may be
responding to all three targets at the same time. Then the field
moves away, and as the targets leave the field the MD will try to
respond to those changes as well.
As you can imagine the preceived response sounds like junk, or just
a crackeling sound. But if you listen closely, and practice it, you may
be able to learn some masking response types.
This can increase your boody finds.
Best wishes,
Dealers love to wave objects in front of a detector to get your attention.
Truth is that, that has little to do with how the MD will work in the ground.
Whe you swing a MD, the ground is moving and influencing the reception.
I mean, you don't even have to GB with the air test.
Believe me, that video is just pure smoke and mirrors.
I can get a few paper clips to confuse a Tejon, or most any VLF metal
detector for that mater.
Uncle willie is the smartest man I know. But I have my own thoughts.
I don't always listen. Bill probably doesn't completely agree with this
but:
If you have severe hearing loss or do not use good headphones,
this disscussion will have little value.
If you are well experenced, you will already know what I am fixen
to say and more. I welcome your input because I am still learning,
and love to have more input on the subject. That means you Bill.
Many people think of masking as trash being over a good target
and you just get the response of the trash target rather than the
good traget. I think a little different. I may be wrong but:
Actually masking is simply, more than one traget being within the
response area produced by the transmition and reception of your
MD.
So, as your coil approches a group of potential targets, first only
one target may start to respond, but suddenly traget number two may
change the response to the reception of both targets at the same
time. Then a third target may enter the field before the MD has had
time to fully respond to the first two objects. Now the MD may be
responding to all three targets at the same time. Then the field
moves away, and as the targets leave the field the MD will try to
respond to those changes as well.
As you can imagine the preceived response sounds like junk, or just
a crackeling sound. But if you listen closely, and practice it, you may
be able to learn some masking response types.
This can increase your boody finds.
Best wishes,
Try placing the nail on top of the coin, if there is a distance between the nail and coin then chances go down fast that you will get a good signal on the coin, according to how much apart or further down the nail is. As one post mentions, scanning across the nail should give a better response than scanning the nail lengthwise. Size of the nail too can have various results, I usually use a 2 1/2" long nail when testing. Setting the disc to a bare minimum is essential when detecting where nails are present.
Using a smaller coil is necessary when working iron trashy areas.
Using a smaller coil is necessary when working iron trashy areas.
Bill in Texas
New member
Look at the post and follow ups in the in the
Tseeker said:I have been air testing my new Vaquero, and I notice that when I disc out iron and try holding an iron nail over a quarter I get no response even though some of the surface area of the quarter is still visible. Is this to be expected? I do recall the thread a while back concerning iron masking experiments in the field. It was pointed out, however, that metal detectors have come a long way in the past few years, so I am somewhat dismayed by this.
There's a lot of factors that add to masking.
Air test masking doesn't take in to consideration the ground balance function, which can contribute to the masking of targets.
The Vaquero is a very good machine to hunt with.
Just remember to run the discrimination as low as you can. I always ran mine between iron and foil. I've found a lot of good treasure with the one I had.
I haven't saw the tests. If the nail is above the coin by any amount then chances go down significantly on getting a good enough signal to dig. At best what modern motion detectors can deal with is with trash and a good item on the same plane or at most not very much space between them, that is vertical spacing.
Yes I agree.
But the fact remains that one small staple
can hide a silver dollar from a Tejon or a DFX.
That is well established. So I never air test
any more because it tells me nothing I need
to know.
My Compadre will not air test worth beans.
But any machine is challanged to stay up
with the little buggar in trash. People don't
believe it, but it gets just as deep as other
machines in real life tough conditions.
That's where I get my stuff, and a Vaquero,
Tejon or a MXT will get no more depth or
or handle masking as well.
In other words the one that sucks on air
test, eats the other's lunch on a regular
bases.
That's why I use the little buggar.
Happy Hunting,
But the fact remains that one small staple
can hide a silver dollar from a Tejon or a DFX.
That is well established. So I never air test
any more because it tells me nothing I need
to know.
My Compadre will not air test worth beans.
But any machine is challanged to stay up
with the little buggar in trash. People don't
believe it, but it gets just as deep as other
machines in real life tough conditions.
That's where I get my stuff, and a Vaquero,
Tejon or a MXT will get no more depth or
or handle masking as well.
In other words the one that sucks on air
test, eats the other's lunch on a regular
bases.
That's why I use the little buggar.
Happy Hunting,
I brought a Compadre instead of a 575 coil for the Tejon due in part to the views of members here recommending it as a wiser purchase and the rave reviews on the Compadre by well mainly you tabdog , and Im sure glad I did because its a great little detector and it has its place , so in total I have 4 Tesoro's ..Tejon , Eldorado umax , Silver umax , Compadre .
I can see why the Tejon gets such a bad rap by alot of people who either havnt used it an are just relaying what they have heard or by users who havent clocked up the hours on the Tejon enough to become comfortable with it and have an understanding of its language . I'm far from being an expert on the Tejon or any other detector for that matter but Ive had enough time using the Tejon to now be very confident in whats its telling me and its always on the money . For the first 20 -40 hrs the Tejon drove me nuts in trashy iron infested sites due to its constant chatter over small iron and yes it was set to reject a small nail on the surface and sens low ....but its just that CHATTER nothing more and once you get used to it its not a bother lets you know what irons around and it cant be mistaken for clean clear signals .
The Compadre is a lot quieter in the trash sure , but any better than the Tejon fitted with the same coil ? I dont know because I dont have a smaller coil for the Tejon to do comparisons , I bet most will belive the Compadre to be the better performer due to not having the Low-Noise/High-Gain circuitry but if the operator is acustomed to using the Tejon my money would be on the Tejon
.
It really comes down to HORSE'S FOR CORSE'S sure the Compadre with its small coil shines in the trash but is left for dead when depth is needed in the cleaner sites , of the 4 detectors I have the Compadre is left far behind by all of them in clean ground when it comes to depth .
"HH"
I can see why the Tejon gets such a bad rap by alot of people who either havnt used it an are just relaying what they have heard or by users who havent clocked up the hours on the Tejon enough to become comfortable with it and have an understanding of its language . I'm far from being an expert on the Tejon or any other detector for that matter but Ive had enough time using the Tejon to now be very confident in whats its telling me and its always on the money . For the first 20 -40 hrs the Tejon drove me nuts in trashy iron infested sites due to its constant chatter over small iron and yes it was set to reject a small nail on the surface and sens low ....but its just that CHATTER nothing more and once you get used to it its not a bother lets you know what irons around and it cant be mistaken for clean clear signals .
The Compadre is a lot quieter in the trash sure , but any better than the Tejon fitted with the same coil ? I dont know because I dont have a smaller coil for the Tejon to do comparisons , I bet most will belive the Compadre to be the better performer due to not having the Low-Noise/High-Gain circuitry but if the operator is acustomed to using the Tejon my money would be on the Tejon
.
It really comes down to HORSE'S FOR CORSE'S sure the Compadre with its small coil shines in the trash but is left for dead when depth is needed in the cleaner sites , of the 4 detectors I have the Compadre is left far behind by all of them in clean ground when it comes to depth .
"HH"
I agree with you 100% True Blue.
I have an Euro Sabre, Vaquero, Silver Sabre uMax and my Compadre.
The Compadre can not come close to doing what the Euro, or the V
or even the Silver can. That is, when you concider max performance.
But, in real life, I find that the Compadre shines where the big pay items
emerge.
May be just because I use it all the time, I don't know. But it is the bread
winner.
I do know that the one you feel the most comfortable with, is the best one,
hands down.
If I get out in the open, I'll usually use something els. But sometimes I like
to take Speedy where he is out of his element. He still manages to do his
own little thing, sometimes with suprising results.
Happy Hunting,
I have an Euro Sabre, Vaquero, Silver Sabre uMax and my Compadre.
The Compadre can not come close to doing what the Euro, or the V
or even the Silver can. That is, when you concider max performance.
But, in real life, I find that the Compadre shines where the big pay items
emerge.
May be just because I use it all the time, I don't know. But it is the bread
winner.
I do know that the one you feel the most comfortable with, is the best one,
hands down.
If I get out in the open, I'll usually use something els. But sometimes I like
to take Speedy where he is out of his element. He still manages to do his
own little thing, sometimes with suprising results.
Happy Hunting,
I borrowed one from a guy in my area, to hunt a couple of sites that are very trashy. It's true it runs a lot smoother on the trashy yards. The small coil, and low noise is the key to the majority of it's success. I took a Tejon along and marked all targets found with the Compadre with golf nails (that's what my grandson calls them) really golf tees. Then I went back and checked each target with the Tejon and the 5 3/4" concentric coil. Did find a couple more targets that the Compadre had missed. But in the end I let the Tejon rest and used the Compadre the rest of the day, it sure is light. Now I tried turning the Tejon down to 0 thinking it would run as quiet as the Compadre, but it didn't work.
You did not say whether the Tejon was able to locate ALL or SOME of the targets located by the Compadre. I bet there are a few of us out here that would like to know. It's one thing to know how smooth a detector runs,etc., but it would be nice to know if that smooth detector finds something that could not be found by another, more expensive detector-to me anyway.When the Super Pro metal detector came out in the "70's-I got one. I was dismayed to find that tuning it at max threshold it would detect a coin at 5" in AIR, and of course, back then, the ground cut the depth even more. Still, it was wonderful in trash. While searching an old fairground loaded with tabs, I got a wide signal, lifted the coil 4" more and the signal was still faint-aluminum can-my thoughts. I plunged the knife in the ground to the guard-6". No target. I dug a wide hole to get can out and plunged my knife AGAIN to the hilt and "Thack"-I knew I had done wrong using the knife. Sure enough, an old Silver Dollar came to light w/gash in it from the knife. Now that's 12" in anyone's book-14" or more knowing I had lifted the coil-from a TR type detector w/6" coil. So, if the Compadre locates what others can't find-every since that day I have not worried about depth.
I did find several more targets with the Tejon. Now whether the Compadre missed them I can't say. The area was so littered with junk, ranging from nails to scrap metal I can't say. Now I can say, all that extra power can be a hinderance if there are several targets within range of the coils field. The only fact I can state is my air test between the Tejon and Compadre.
Air test, solid beep
My gold wedding band
Tejon sensitivity set to 0, discrimination set to i in foil, a solid beep at 7"
Compadre just clicked on, a solid beep at 7"
A clad quarter
Tejon sensitivity set to 0, discrimination set to i in foil, a solid beep at 6"
Compadre just clicked on, a solid beep at 6"
Now you might be wondering why I would set my Tejon that low. Well the Compadre is borrowed and I was trying to set my Tejon close to the Compadre to hunt the trashy area when the Compadre is returned home.
Air test, solid beep
My gold wedding band
Tejon sensitivity set to 0, discrimination set to i in foil, a solid beep at 7"
Compadre just clicked on, a solid beep at 7"
A clad quarter
Tejon sensitivity set to 0, discrimination set to i in foil, a solid beep at 6"
Compadre just clicked on, a solid beep at 6"
Now you might be wondering why I would set my Tejon that low. Well the Compadre is borrowed and I was trying to set my Tejon close to the Compadre to hunt the trashy area when the Compadre is returned home.