still digging a ton of trash compared to finds...

[gunwolf]

went out today with the 6x8 SEF coil, trashy park program with nickels opened a little and goes4evers settings. I did a grid pattern about 50ft x 50ft and went so slow it took me 3 hours! I dug every faint blip that had great numbers, and every great tone that was solid and long both ways with good numbers. I had several that sounded so good and were 12,13- 43,44 the FE only jumped a bit in open screen to maybe 17,18...so I dig and there is another rusty nail..re-check the hole..nothing. I understand having to dig bottle caps and pulltabs... but these rusty nails are beating me up! so far since I got the 6x8.. I have only dug a few coins that were with or near the rusty nails... and when I say I have dug about 150 plugs I mean it!
I know the wet soil this time of year contributes to the halo effect of the rusty iron, but one tone I got was a solid 13-43 no matter how I swung... yeh I was expecting a rosie or a merc... nope a small rusty nail and no other targets within a few feet.
I did manage a few keepers today... 2 V nickels and 4 wheats. I wanted to dig every possible good tone today to keep learning the E-trac and this new coil... but man my back hurts! with my experience so far I have determined that I'm gonna dig the nails no matter what. if it wasn't for guys posting to constantly dig the "iffy" signals I would probably ignore them and save myself so much pain. but I'm afraid I'll miss something... so far not one nail got missed!

 

[DirtFishinPA]

I feel your pain man! im doing the exact same thing and i have tried every program i have found running in every mode, so many different settings, suggestions, u name it i have tried it. ttf to me seems like it be a good choice but you still get high tones on nails, alot sound like a good non ferrous target in more than one angle ect. i dig just to pull out a nail with nothing else in or around it. im getting so fed up with it that i may end up getting rid of my etrac truthfully. its to sensitive to rusted iron, nails compared to many other machines ive used. i know its a great machine but this nail problem that you mention is the same for me. i use quick mask, go by sound only, different modes and settings, will switch to a different mode and recheck to confirm target, still get a good sound just to dig a nail... its taking all the fun and excitement out of the hobby for me... im following this post to see what others have to say and if anyone has some more tips and tricks i havent tried.... im coming to find out that i find myself now more with etrac as well as the 2 explorers ive had, digging nails, also spending to much time trying to decipher if its a good target to dig or not, to just dig it for it to be a nail. for the price of the machine u would think it be a bit better in iron than others but to me it seems the exact opposite.. the thing is im not even a new user to minelabs, etrac im fairly new but ive used explorers also with the same outcome.

 

[gunwolf]

so true.. I did this same area a few years ago with the stock coil TTF in open screen... you get a deep tone then a high tone turn 90deg and still a high tone... numbers have a constant CO of 45...and I did a rusty nail! this park is about 250 yards long and 150 yards wide.. I swear there are nails every couple of feet scattered throughout this park! although... I have never been skunked 100% while hunting there.. it always gives up at least one keeper!

 

[DirtFishinPA]

ive been skunked the last few trips out just finding a few wheats. i cant complain to much as the etrac and explorer se ive used netted me 67 silver this year so far. yet according to both machines 50% or more of the targets in the ground are silver or something of the non ferrous nature anyway. NOPE just another rusted nail! lol... i keep trying and trying and paying so much attention to the sounds, the vdi's an smartfind, switching modes rechecking to dig a nail. I dont get it. im at a loss. I really hate to give up on etrac, ik its capabilities. Yet it wears me out in just a short amount of time. Its not the weight or nothing either, its the digging false highs. I really do hope someone chimes in on this... ive read and read til i give myself a headache, ive watched countless videos on youtube. Tried it all. I dont dig anything thats scratchy now, yep im probably passing up a silver or 2. I wish they wouldve left ferrous sounds alone and kept multitone ferrous the same as the explorers. i do miss that. you still get a million false highs but to me it seemed easier to determine a nail to coin. Between having to sweep slow, move slow and decipher the signals i barely cover any ground. Yet i still go home with 5lbs of nails! I think thats the trade off, deep seeking maching, id's well at depth but at the cost of iron junk an nails. At least to me anyway. Once again, ik there will be someone thats will come on here an say " well etracs dont do well in iron" blah blah... well to me thats a kick in the nuts for the price of the machine. Dont get me wrong i do like minelab, but dam i wish they were a bit better in iron. you'd think with a multi frequency machine it be a bit more accurate when it comes to halo effect of iron. Any machine will false at times on a rusted nail but minelab takes the cake for me so far!.......... come on guys give us some good advice!!! I dont want my etrac to go bye byes lol

 

[gunwolf]

Got my first E-trac about 4 years ago... had it for 2 years .. after surgery I sold it... just bought this one last month... love the machine, it is a silver hound! but the nail thing has been driving me crazy sibnce I bought my first one.. everyone has chimed in on the subject... I wish someone would make a detailed video of what signal are good verses bad... they say if it is a solid tone both ways with solid CO numbers to dig it... well yeh that's where the nails come in. you can discriminate iron out and yet the FE nail seems to scream CO and why does it always fall in the very good range... CO of 43-46... I'm thinking about upgrading to the CTX 3030... I hear it has a lot less iron falsing than the E-trac... I'll keep the E-trac of course... in a clean yard it finds those silver coins like nothing else!

 

[DirtFishinPA]

check out cutaplug on youtube. he is good at showing signals and sounds in his vids. actually last night i watched one he was using ttf and a pattern which caught my attention an now using, he also would jump to andys pattern in multi conduct to also check signal and compare to. shows a good example of visual id's at depth etc... i went out today for a few and did manage a few coins nothing old besides a few wheats nothing extreamly deep either but i ran the program he was (close to anyway) and using ttf also comparing signal in multi conduct andys pattern. seemed to help a lil more on determining target, still dug nails but didnt seem to be as many, yet more than enough for me. it may help you get an idea on what your looking for tho in terms of co vdi, vdi jump and sounds.... i also switched pinpoint mode from normal to sizing, also seemed to help on determining some nails as well. CTX may be my next purchase altho i thought about a deus also. Gonna give etrac a bit more time first. im still fairly fresh with it.

 

[gunwolf]

I just put the stock coil back on, I'm gonna hit the same area tomorrow and run a hot 28,29 sensitivity

 

[UtahRich]

Hey Gunwolf,

Hunting trashy old parks is an exercise in patience and perseverance; something that many detectorists lack. There is a lot of trash out there to sort through looking for that little gem. The e-trac is amazing at sorting through the junk if you move along slowly and carefully, but still, older parks are likely to have multiple metal targets under the coil at a given time. Recovering good targets often calls for removing junk to clearly expose good targets for a tidy recovery.

I agree that wet soil combined with deep rusty nails can give some positive signals. Many years ago, I used an old Fisher CZ-6. Great detector, but wet ground with rusty nails was a killer for me. That's how I became introduced to the Minelab Explorer XS. The E-trac is amazing at finding coins and other good targets in amongst rusty nails.

A couple thoughts. Are you rechecking the holes in discrimination mode? or All Metal? If you are running higher levels of discrimination with narrow windows, could be that once you remove the offending nails and disturb the soil, the remaining target is no longer within the narrow windows you have open. If you are using pinpoint, make sure you haven't detuned the sensitivity so much from the previous target that you can't pick up a smaller, deeper target. Searching the holes and the loose soil with a pin pointer often helps finding the real target once the offending rusty nail or junk is removed.

Good luck out there.


Rich (Utah)

 

[gunwolf]

Hey Gunwolf,

Hunting trashy old parks is an exercise in patience and perseverance; something that many detectorists lack. There is a lot of trash out there to sort through looking for that little gem. The e-trac is amazing at sorting through the junk if you move along slowly and carefully, but still, older parks are likely to have multiple metal targets under the coil at a given time. Recovering good targets often calls for removing junk to clearly expose good targets for a tidy recovery.

I agree that wet soil combined with deep rusty nails can give some positive signals. Many years ago, I used an old Fisher CZ-6. Great detector, but wet ground with rusty nails was a killer for me. That's how I became introduced to the Minelab Explorer XS. The E-trac is amazing at finding coins and other good targets in amongst rusty nails.

A couple thoughts. Are you rechecking the holes in discrimination mode? or All Metal? If you are running higher levels of discrimination with narrow windows, could be that once you remove the offending nails and disturb the soil, the remaining target is no longer within the narrow windows you have open. If you are using pinpoint, make sure you haven't detuned the sensitivity so much from the previous target that you can't pick up a smaller, deeper target. Searching the holes and the loose soil with a pin pointer often helps finding the real target once the offending rusty nail or junk is removed.

Good luck out there.


Rich (Utah)

That there is some great advise Rich! Thankyou! I always recheck my holes with the pin pointer first, then with the detector still in open screen... the few coins I did find with the nails I found not with the pinpointer but after I rechecked with the coil... I have learned in the trash to go slow, but as the time goes on I catch myself swinging faster the more tired I am! I'm going back tomorrow with the stock coil to hit this same area from a different angle and see if I missed any deeper targets. the soil is very sandy here and I have actually dug IH's at 14" ... but I gotta run a hot sensitivity to get the blip... they usually come in at a lower FE like 05 or 07 with a CO like 35 or 36....

 

[Mark in S.E. IA]

I've been using the Etrac for a year now and I have the same problem, I dig way too many nails. I'm lost as to what to do.

 

[roadapple]

What I do to cut out digging all the nails ----- After getting a good tone ...... then looking at the Vid numbers ......Watch the screen position of the cursor. Then go into quick mask with an open screen .....and pay close attention to the FE numbers changing which can be in the 30's indicating iron ..... along with the cursor in the lower bottom of the screen. This works for me not digging crap. Also, a friend of mine switched to a CTX and that machine is not a cure for nails any better then the E-Trac IMO.

 

[UtahRich]

Gunwolf,

This is a bit of a tough subject. Looks like you're using a Garrett PP, which should be good for at least a few inches of 'depth' to search the bottom and sides of a hole. If you aren't over-digging the hole past the point your 6x8 coil can reach and you are being thorough with searching the sides and bottom of the hole as well as the removed dirt with the Garrett PP, I'd say it was a false signal off the rusty nail. I dig up rusty nails, but only a small percentage of what I used to find with my other detectors going back, well, a long time. But they are still there.

One of the things I've learned to do over the years when I've found what I think is a good target, I will investigate some before dropping to my knees and digging. Some things that I'm looking for are:

1. Can I get a good signal on the target from all directions? or just from certain directions? For me it seems that wet rusty nails have a best signal direction and are poor from other directions.
2. Is my detector sensitivity maxed? Am I getting falsing? How deep do I think the target is? If I start lifting the coil away from the ground a little bit each time as I sweep, what happens to the signal? does it go away quickly or slowly? The laws of physics take over here as i know the signal strength should diminish quickly on a deep target.
3. Next, I will pinpoint the target in search mode and then again in pinpoint mode. Is the target depth equal to the signal level? Does the target center move? A lot? Do I think I have more than 1 metal target under the coil? If so, how many and where?

Some of this transpires very quickly with shallower, easy to pick up targets and takes no more than a few seconds. With deeper targets or multiple targets, things can get more complex.For me, I try to simplify the recovery and get nearby unwanted metal targets out of the way,. i.e. a shallow pull tab or such. It takes just a moment to pinpoint and remove a shallow unwanted that is interfering with a possible good deep target.

What does this all come to? Well, if I get a signal that is dominant in 1 direction and absent from the other directions and I dig and recover a deep rusty nail and I carefully sweep my pin pointer through the bottom and sides of the hole and have no other signals, I am very confident that I was fooled by an old rusty nail and that I'm not walking away from a deep barber dime or Indian head penny.

But remember, the minelabs are VERY good at seeing good targets in amongst the iron trash. REALLY GOOD. And I get reminded of this each time i dig up a rust stained silver coin that had one, two or three rusty old nails in the same hole. So make a habit of being thorough of searching the area after removing a rusty nail or such.


Rich (Utah)


PS. FWIW - I NEVER use auto sens. ALWAYS manual. Listen to how the detector responds and adjust more or less accordingly.

 

[UtahRich]

Let me add one more thing that has helped A LOT of people on this forum over the years.

EXPERIMENT with your settings OVER LIVE TARGETS.

Nothing will convince you more that one setting is better than another than finding out for YOURSELF. And remember that what works for you with your detector and coil(s) and your headphones in your neck of the woods may or may not work for the next guy with his detector in his neck of the woods. As the saying goes, YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY.

If you are wondering if FAST or DEEP or AUTOMATIC or MANUAL or whatever works better for a deep target or for separating targets go out and find a deep target and try changing your settings and see for yourself. Put it to the test. Is the audio signal better or worse? If you crank up the sensitivity what happens? What does the display do? Try it in wet and dry conditions. Are the results the same? Try to optimize your settings for the area you are hunting. Guess what the target is. Then dig up the target and see what you have. Were you right?

Learning your detector takes time and practice.



Rich (Utah)

 

[daddyflea]

I have found that running Fast OFF reduces these False Iron hits. i always run DEEP ON as well. I believe these increase your sampling rate and gives a better ID

 

[UtahRich]

I have found that running Fast OFF reduces these False Iron hits. i always run DEEP ON as well. I believe these increase your sampling rate and gives a better ID

Daddyflea, those are my starting setting for hunting yards and parks.

Rich (Utah)

 

[BryanM362]

What I do to cut out digging all the nails ----- After getting a good tone ...... then looking at the Vid numbers ......Watch the screen position of the cursor. Then go into quick mask with an open screen .....and pay close attention to the FE numbers changing which can be in the 30's indicating iron ..... along with the cursor in the lower bottom of the screen. This works for me not digging crap. Also, a friend of mine switched to a CTX and that machine is not a cure for nails any better then the E-Trac IMO.

I agree if you switch to an open screen and the Fe numbers start creeping above 30, it's probably a nail. The machine oftern picks up on the round head of the nail and mistakes it for a coin, but the Fe will at least be very jumpy into the highere numbers.

 

[kt]

One thing that I keep having to re-discover (every time I pick the darn machine up) is that lower sensitivity doesn't seem to false as badly on iron. In residential areas I keep re-learning that 12 to 17 on the sensitivity setting will go surprisingly deep, with less iron falsing than sensitivity settings in the high twenties. At least that is my experience.

 

[UtahRich]

One thing that I keep having to re-discover (every time I pick the darn machine up) is that lower sensitivity doesn't seem to false as badly on iron. In residential areas I keep re-learning that 12 to 17 on the sensitivity setting will go surprisingly deep, with less iron falsing than sensitivity settings in the high twenties. At least that is my experience.

I agree.


Guess I need to ask, what are your expectations of a ratio of good targets to garbage? Do you expect to NEVER dig a rusty nail?


Rich (Utah)

 

[daddyflea]

One thing that I keep having to re-discover (every time I pick the darn machine up) is that lower sensitivity doesn't seem to false as badly on iron. In residential areas I keep re-learning that 12 to 17 on the sensitivity setting will go surprisingly deep, with less iron falsing than sensitivity settings in the high twenties. At least that is my experience.

I agree.


Guess I need to ask, what are your expectations of a ratio of good targets to garbage? Do you expect to NEVER dig a rusty nail?


Rich (Utah)

Funny thing I changed my ground from Difficult to Normal and noticed Auto Reading using +3 of just 19. Changed it to Difficult and was running 28 in Auto +3.

 

[masterjedi]

I run fast off and deep on all of the time and manual 30. I hardly ever dig a nail so this post confuses me? I never run an open screen. Always have my FE set at the 30 line on any screen. Anything with a FE of 25+ is most always a bad target. So if I find a target with a high tone I just watch my FE number. If it stays 25+ I will not dig it. If it is 25+ but at any angle bounces up to say 10-19 range then back to 25+ then back up again I always dig it. If you continue to dig by sound with 25+ FE numbers you will continue digging nails. That's why it has discrimination. Use it...
Hope this helps.
Gary from Oregon