Stay tuned on this forum for the ultimate Gold Test

[lytle78]

The First Texas site in El Paso is their headquarters, where they make Fisher, Teknetics and Bounty Hunter detectors. They do have this coil in stock. If a dealer wants to sell one, he can order it. I just checked with them and they have a couple of hundred in stock.

 

[GroundScanner]

Where would I find that 4" coil for $49.00. You can message me if you want thanks. GS

 

[Monte]

I like it so well I ordered another new F44 just to keep a different search coil mounted. I did PM you a few minutes ago regarding the 'glitch' and hope it is just with my first F44 I got a few months ago [size=small](Oct./Nov/.)[/size] and can be easily fixed. I'm looking forward to doing the smaller-coil evaluations next week.

Monte

 

[Monte]

In the coil listing by model it does show the 4", but in the product chart at the bottom it only shows a different 4" for the F2, etc. There isn't one shown in that chart as being available for the F44, F5 and other compatible models, so which is correct? The listing by model, or the non-listing by the chart? I have spoken with other dealers who told me there were no more 4" coils available for the F44. Hopefully the two 4" Concentric coils I ordered will get here Monday and be the correct coils for my F44 and Omega 8000 and be the correct 4".

Monte

 

[lytle78]

Here’s some stuff I copied out of the current Teknetics and Fisher pricelists. The first item is from the Tek list, the 2nd one is from the Fisher F44 section of the Fisher list.

4COIL-FS 4" Search Coil ALPHA, DELTA, GAMMA, OMEGA, ETEKPRO 0-89723-12237-
4COIL-FS 4" Round Search Coil 4"

F44 F44 F44 Metal Detector Weather Proof 11"
F44-11DD F44 Metal Detector Weather Proof 11" DD
F44GWP F44 Metal Detector Bundle Offer 11"
4COIL-FS 4" Round Search Coil 4"
7COIL-RE-F 7" Coil Round Coil 7"
9COIL-EE 9" Concentric Teardrop coil 9"
11COIL-EE 11" Concentric Teardrop Coil 11"
11COIL-FRL 11" DD Elliptical Coil 11" DD
4COVER 4" Coil Cover 4"
7COVER-RE 7" Round Coil Cover 7"
9COVER-EE 9" Teardrop Coil Cover 9"
COVER-11DD 11" Coil Cover 11" DD
11COVER-EE 11" Teardrop Coil Cover 11"
COV-F44 Neoprene Protective Cover
BATHOLDERF44 Battery Holder

 

[LW Steve]

Testing on the F5 and 4" concentric coil has been completed.

Due to EMI in my living room the gain was set at 30 (30%)
The gain on the F44 was at 12 (60%) during its testing.
From here on out I will keep both detectors at 30% gain.

Threshold was at +6 (60%)
Everything else was at default settings for the F5

ring #1 ( 24 ) ( 3.5" ) ++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 24 ) ( 3" )
ring #2 ( 25-26 ) ( 3.5" ) +++++++++++ All Metal ( 26 ) ( 3" )
ring #3 ( 22-23 ) ( 3.5" ) +++++++++++ All Metal ( 22-23 ) ( 3" )
ring #4 ( 24 ) ( 3.5" ) +++++++++++++ All Metal ( 24 ) ( 3" )
ring #5 ( 28 ) ( 4" ) ++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 28 ) ( 3.75" )
ring #6 ( 27 ) ( 4" ) ++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 27 ) ( 3.75" )
ring #7 ( 27 ) ( 4" ) ++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 27 ) ( 3.75" )
ring #8 ( 21-22 ) ( 3.5" ) ++++++++++ All Metal ( 21-22 ) ( 2.5" )
ring #9 ( 25 ) ( 3.75" ) +++++++++++ All Metal ( 25 ) ( 3" )
ring #10 ( 24 ) ( 3.75" ) +++++++++++ All Metal ( 24 ) ( 3" )
ring #11 ( 25 ) (4" ) +++++++++++++ All Metal ( 25 ) ( 3.5" )
ring #12 ( 20 ) ( 2.25" ) +++++++++++ All Metal ( 20 ) ( 2" )


14K chain section clasp area - disc mode ( 13 - 22 ) ( .25" ) +++++++++++ All Metal ( could not ID ) ( .25" )
gold nugget - disc mode ( 19 - 22 ) ( .50" ) ++++++++++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 19 - 23 ) ( .25" )
14K small clasp - disc mode ( 20 - 23 ) ( .50" ) +++++++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 20 - 26 ) ( .25" )
14K tear drop charm - disc mode ( 19 - 23 ) ( .50" ) +++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 19 - 22 ) ( .25" )
14K leaf charm - disc mode ( 19 - 23 ) ( .50" ) +++++++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 19 - 23 ) ( .25" )

4" coil conclusions...

The F5 detected some gold rings out to 4" in disc mode with the gain at 30% (impressive!)
The best the F44 could do was 3.75" in disc mode with the gain set at 60%
The F5 is a deeper machine in disc mode.
The F44 is a deeper machine in all metal. (hard to say how much at this time because both detectors had different gain settings)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The F5 did not do well at IDing targets in all metal.

The F44 was far more sensitive to the tiny gold targets than the F5.
The F5 did a great job on those small gold rings however.

Going to go hunt a bark chip playground in all metal?.... then take your F44.!
Going to go hunt a park that still might have some deep silver?... then take your F5.!

Next up the F44 and the 5" DD coil

 

[Mike Hillis]

thank you, Steve.

Good test!

HH
Mike

 

[LW Steve]

thank you, Steve.

Good test!

HH
Mike

Mike, you are welcome my friend.

There is lots of testing left to do.

Coming up later I will air test three of my favorite rings...

A heavy .950 platinum wedding band and two heavy 18K rings.

I wonder where that platinum band is going to read out on the F5 & F44?

Now I'm getting anxious.

HH

LW Steve

 

[LW Steve]

Here is a sneak platinum preview of my future air test...

The .950 platinum ring weighs 10.4 grams...

If the price of platinum keeps dropping, I will use it as a fishing weight.

I'm 6' 4" and the 18K horseshoe ring fits my left pinkie finger just perfect. ( I do wear it to casinos) Vaygus Baby!

More air tests on the way...

HH

LW Steve

 

[LW Steve]

Results for the F44 & 5" DD coil

Disc Mode & All Metal
Artifact program for disc mode
Sensitivity was 12 of 20 (60%)

first number(s) is ID
2nd number is repeat signal max depth

ring #1 disc mode ( 28-29 ) ( 2.75" ) +++++++++++ All Metal ( 27 - 30 ) ( 3.25" )
ring #2 disc mode ( 31 ) ( 3.25" ) ++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 30 - 31 ) ( 3.75" )
ring #3 disc mode ( 26 - 27 ) ( 3" ) ++++++++++++ All Metal ( 26 - 27 ) ( 3.5" )
ring #4 disc mode ( 27 - 28 ) ( 2.75" ) ++++++++++ All Metal ( 27-28 ) ( 3" )
ring #5 disc mode ( 34 - 35 ) ( 3.5" ) ++++++++++ All Metal ( 34 - 35 ) ( 4" )
ring #6 disc mode ( 33 ) ( 3.75" ) +++++++++++++ All Metal ( 32 - 33 ) ( 4.25" )
ring #7 disc mode ( 33 - 34 ) ( 3.25" ) ++++++++++ All Metal ( 33 - 34 ) ( 3.75" )
ring #8 disc mode ( 25 - 26 ) ( 2.5" ) ++++++++++++ All Metal ( 25 - 26 ) ( 2.75" )
ring #9 disc mode ( 29 ) ( 3" ) ++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 28 - 30 ) ( 3.25" )
ring #10 disc mode ( 28 - 29 ) ( 3" ) ++++++++++++ All Metal ( 28 - 29 ) ( 3.25" )
ring #11 disc mode ( 29 - 30 ) (3" ) +++++++++++ All Metal ( 29 - 30 ) ( 3.5" )
ring #12 disc mode ( 24 ) ( 2.25" ) ++++++++++++ All Metal ( 24 - 25 ) ( 2.75" )

14K chain section clasp area - disc mode ( 19 - 24 ) ( 1/8" ) ++++++++ All Metal ( 19 - 23 ) ( 1/2" )
gold nugget - disc mode ( 23 - 24 ) ( 3/4" ) ++++++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 23 - 24 ) ( 1" )
14K small clasp - disc mode ( 28 - 30 ) ( 3/4" ) +++++++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 26 - 29 ) ( 1" )
14K tear drop charm - disc mode ( 24 - 26 ) ( 3/4" ) +++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 23 - 26 ) ( 1" )
14K leaf charm - disc mode ( 23 - 25 ) ( 3/4" ) +++++++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 22 - 25 ) ( 1" )

Conclusions...

The 4" concentric will go deeper than the 5" DD in both disc mode and in all metal.

The ID numbers with the 5" DD are slightly higher than those with the 4" concentric.

I will give the 5" DD coil a chance to redeem itself later against the 4" concentric...
As I will setup a simple silver dime and rusty nail separation test to see which coil has better separation characteristics.
More on that later....

Next up is the F5 and 5" DD coil.

 

[LW Steve]

Results for the F5 and 5" DD coil

Disc Mode & All Metal

First number(s) is ID
2nd number is repeat signal max depth

Due to EMI in my living room the gain was set at 30 (30%)

Threshold was at +6 (60%)
Everything else was at default settings for the F5



ring #1 disc mode ( 24 - 25 ) ( 3.25" ) +++++++++++ All Metal ( 24 - 25 ) ( 3" )
ring #2 disc mode ( 27 ) ( 3.25" ) ++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 27 ) ( 3.25" )
ring #3 disc mode ( 23 - 24 ) ( 3.25" ) ++++++++++ All Metal ( 23 - 24 ) ( 3" )
ring #4 disc mode ( 24 - 25 ) ( 3.25" ) ++++++++++ All Metal ( 24 - 25 ) ( 3" )
ring #5 disc mode ( 29 ) ( 3.5" ) ++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 29 ) ( 3.25" )
ring #6 disc mode ( 28 ) ( 3.5" ) +++++++++++++ All Metal ( 28 ) ( 3.25" )
ring #7 disc mode ( 28 ) ( 3.5" ) +++++++++++++ All Metal ( 28 ) ( 3.25" )
ring #8 disc mode ( 22 - 23 ) ( 2.25" ) ++++++++ All Metal ( 22 - 23 ) ( 2.25" )
ring #9 disc mode ( 26 ) ( 3.25" ) ++++++++++++ All Metal ( 25 - 26 ) ( 3.25" )
ring #10 disc mode ( 25 ) ( 3.5" ) ++++++++++++ All Metal ( 25 ) ( 3.25" )
ring #11 disc mode ( 26 ) (3.25" ) +++++++++++ All Metal ( 26 ) ( 3.25" )
ring #12 disc mode ( 21 - 22 ) ( 2.25" ) +++++++ All Metal ( 21 - 22 ) ( 2.25" )

14K chain section clasp area - disc mode ( 16 - 18 ) ( 1/16" ) ++++++++++ All Metal ( would not ID ) ( was detected at 1/16" )
gold nugget - disc mode ( 22 - 24 ) ( 3/4" ) ++++++++++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 19 - 21 ) ( 1/8" )
14K small clasp - disc mode ( 22 - 24 ) ( 3/4" ) +++++++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 25 - 26 ) ( 1/2" )
14K tear drop charm - disc mode ( 22 - 23 ) ( 3/4" ) +++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 21 - 23 ) ( 1/2" )
14K leaf charm - disc mode ( 21 - 23 ) ( 3/4" ) +++++++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 20 - 21 ) ( 1/2" )


Conclusions....

The F5 continues to get less depth in all metal than in disc mode.

The F5 is more sensitive to EM interference than the F44...
However the F5 has those awesome analog knobs (gain & threshhold) which gain quickly refute any EM interference.

I've noticed that rings which have a bigger hole size, get better depth than the smaller hole size rings. (even though the smaller hole size ring may have an equal amount of gold)
And of course the rings that weigh more will get better depth. (most of the time)

Next up the F44 and the 7" concentric coil.

 

[LW Steve]

I used a CZ and 5" coil on land from 1993 to 2018.
The CZ-5 and CZ-6a would get better depth with a 5" concentric coil than most detectors would with an 8" coil.
In those 25 years I dug a ton of silver with my CZ's however there was one test that my dual frequency CZ's failed miserably at...
And that was the dime next to rusty iron test.

In the photo is a silver dime next to a rusty piece of iron. The dime is actually a little lower than the iron as it sits.
Later on I will conduct a test with the 4" concentric coil on the F44 and the 5" DD coil on the F5...
I will cross the two targets horizontally and at a 45 degree angle...

Which detector will get the higher score?

We shall see...

 

[Jeff Harris]

I'm going to say the F44. And now for the legend of the "Golden Child." Back when I started detecting (1993), one of my hunting partners had a CZ5. It was a beast, there was something wrong with the factory tolerances. The needle never showed silver on a bent rusty nail. John would regularly come to our monthly club meetings with 20-30 silvers, double digit buffalo & V nickels, dozens of wheaties and Indian heads. Eventually the CZ5 needed repairs, he sent it off, when it came back it was not the same. John purchased quite a few CZ5 's and 6's but never found that sweet spot CZ. Now his go to machines are the Whites Spectrum and the T2. He still crushes it, the T2 with the 5" is a beast in nail riddled railroad camps.

 

[Mike Hillis]

I want to do a quick clarification of the F5 test for folks.

1) the F5 Gain setting was on 30 (range is 0 to 100 in increments of 5)
2) the threshold was wide open (threshold setting are -9 to 0)
3) the small signal audio boost was on +6 (small signal audio boost settings are the threshold settings of +1 to +9)

So the F5 performance at such a low gain setting (30%) is not bad at all. Actually really good as compared to the F44 with the sensitivity settings of 12 (60%).

Looking at say,,,,ring #3. only a 1/2" difference between the two. I dare to say it but the F5 is the better performer.

HH
Mike

 

[LW Steve]

I want to do a quick clarification of the F5 test for folks.

1) the F5 Gain setting was on 30 (range is 0 to 100 in increments of 5)
2) the threshold was wide open (threshold setting are -9 to 0)
3) the small signal audio boost was on +6 (small signal audio boost settings are the threshold settings of +1 to +9)

So the F5 performance at such a low gain setting (30%) is not bad at all. Actually really good as compared to the F44 with the sensitivity settings of 12 (60%).

Looking at say,,,,ring #3. only a 1/2" difference between the two. I dare to say it but the F5 is the better performer.

HH
Mike

Mike, both detectors being used are brand new and have never been outdoors. (to let everybody know)
We still have 4 coils to go... (7" round - 8" round - 10" teardrop - 11" teardrop ) all 4 are concentric.

Going in I knew the F5 was a deeper machine and the F5 has proved it.! (so far)

However I'm a trash hunter and I love to hunt the trashy areas.
The metal detector world is a "give and take" world.
Meaning that if a detector gets great depth like the F5 then it is most likely not going to do as well in the trash like the F44 would.
Because the F44 will not go as deep as the F5. ( It's all about physics )
Example: In the 1990's we had the Fisher 1266X which could pull silver dimes out of the ground at a depth of 16"
But in the trash the 1266X had target separation problems and would ID iron as good signals at depths that it shouldn't.
Then also in the 1990's we had the Tesoro detectors which would not go nearly as deep as a 1266X but would "lay waste" to a 1266X in the trashy areas.
I know this because I used a Tesoro Stingray II out in the lakes for several years.....

I'm also trying to figure out if the F44 is better in the trash than the F5.
And can I figure this out from my living room with out going outside in the snow?

I have many more tests that I will be conducting... (Including an iron discrimination audio test)

In the meantime... I'm glad that I own both detectors!

HH

LW Steve

 

[Mike Hillis]

Steve,
I'm glad you are doing all the testing. Its a lot of work and you are doing a good job. I was just just highlighting the difference.
Keep it up!

HH
Mike

 

[LW Steve]

Mike,

We also have coil battles that are brewing...

The "I can go deep in the trash" concentric 4" coil vs the Target Separating Bad A$$ 5" DD coil.

And the "Take me anywhere honey" Super 7" concentric coil vs the "Don't take me into the trash please" 10" teardrop coil

This is going to get a lot better before it gets worse.

HH

LW Steve

 

[LW Steve]

After the gold & platinum ring testing has been completed we will go into the "Dog & Pony Tricks" portion of the bench testing.

I'm convinced one or maybe both the F5 & F44 has "see thru" abilities in the trash.

The F5 will be equipped with the 5" DD coil and the F44 gets the 4" concentric coil.

There will be several puzzles involved and each detector will try to detect the silver dime coming from 3 different directions.
( horizontally & vertically and at a 45 degree angle )

One of the puzzles that will be in the test I have already built. It is called "The Bridge over the River Kwai"
Can your detector detect that dime?

During the testing... I will be the Judge, Jury and Executioner.

There will be coins on edge, coins under bottle caps, coins under coins, this will be very interesting I promise you.

All this coming up later.... Now who ordered this dang snow?

HH

LW Steve

 

[LW Steve]

From here on out I am going to run the threshold at zero on the F5 rather than +6 due to EMI in my living room.

And the F5 will go first in all tests so that the gain used by the F5 can be matched by the F44.

Results for the F5 and 7" coil

Disc Mode & All Metal

First number(s) is ID
2nd number is repeat signal max depth

Due to EMI in my living room the gain was set at 30 (30%)

Threshold was at 0 (zero)
Everything else was at default settings for the F5

ring #1 disc mode ( 24 ) ( 3" ) +++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 24 - 25 ) ( 3.25" )
ring #2 disc mode ( 26 ) ( 3.5" ) ++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 26 - 27 ) ( 3.75" )
ring #3 disc mode ( 23 ) ( 3" ) +++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 22 - 23 ) ( 3.25" )
ring #4 disc mode ( 24 ) ( 3" ) ++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 24 ) ( 3.25" )
ring #5 disc mode ( 28 ) ( 3.5" ) ++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 28 - 29 ) ( 3.75" )
ring #6 disc mode ( 27 ) ( 3.5" ) +++++++++++++ All Metal ( 27 - 28 ) ( 3.75" )
ring #7 disc mode ( 28 ) ( 3.25" ) +++++++++++++ All Metal ( 28 ) ( 3.5" )
ring #8 disc mode ( 21 - 22 ) ( 2.25" ) +++++++++ All Metal ( 21 - 22 ) ( 2.5" )
ring #9 disc mode ( 25 ) ( 3" ) +++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 24 - 25 ) ( 3.25" )
ring #10 disc mode ( 25 ) ( 3.25" ) ++++++++++++ All Metal ( 25 ) ( 3.5" )
ring #11 disc mode ( 25 - 26 ) (3" ) +++++++++++ All Metal ( 25 - 26 ) ( 3.25" )
ring #12 disc mode ( 20 - 21 ) ( 2.25" ) +++++++ All Metal ( 20 - 22 ) ( 2.5" )

14K chain section clasp area - disc mode ( would not ID ) ( barely detected at 1/16" ) ++ All Metal ( would not ID ) ( was detected at 1/16" )
gold nugget - disc mode ( 20 - 23 ) ( 1/16" ) ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 19 - 22 ) ( 1/4" )
14K small clasp - disc mode ( 22 - 23 ) ( 1/16" ) +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 21 - 23 ) ( 1/4" )
14K tear drop charm - disc mode ( 21 - 23 ) ( 1/16" ) +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 22 - 23 ) ( 1/4" )
14K leaf charm - disc mode ( 20 - 23 ) ( 1/16" ) ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 21 - 23 ) ( 1/4" )

Conclusions....

By keeping the threshold at +6 this increases the depth in disc mode and decreases the depth in all metal.

By reducing the threshold from +6 to zero this reduces the depth in disc mode and increases the depth in all metal.

By keeping the threshold at zero we will get a more understanding of what the F5 can do.

Because when I'm hunting those old parking strips over in Seattle there is no way I will be able to run the threshold at +6
due to all the EMI from the power lines.

But if you are way out in the country hunting Farmer Jones' farm field than by all means jack up your threshold to +6 so you
can get more depth in disc mode.

Next up the F44 and 7" coil with the same gain setting as the F5 just had.

 

[LW Steve]

Results for the F44 & 7" concentric coil

Disc Mode & All Metal
Artifact program for disc mode
Sensitivity was 6 of 20 (30%)

first number(s) is ID
2nd number is repeat signal max depth

ring #1 disc mode ( 27 ) ( 2.25" ) ++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 27 ) ( 2.5" )
ring #2 disc mode ( 29 - 30 ) ( 2.5" ) ++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 30 ) ( 2.75" )
ring #3 disc mode ( 25 - 26 ) ( 2.25" ) ++++++++++++ All Metal ( 25 - 26 ) ( 2.5" )
ring #4 disc mode ( 26 - 27 ) ( 2.25" ) ++++++++++++ All Metal ( 26 - 27 ) ( 2.5" )
ring #5 disc mode ( 34 ) ( 2.75" ) +++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 34 ) ( 3" )
ring #6 disc mode ( 31 -32 ) ( 3" ) +++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 31 - 32 ) ( 3.25" )
ring #7 disc mode ( 32 - 33 ) ( 2.5" ) +++++++++++++ All Metal ( 32 - 33 ) ( 2.75" )
ring #8 disc mode ( 24 - 25 ) ( 1.75" ) ++++++++++++ All Metal ( 25 ) ( 2" )
ring #9 disc mode ( 28 ) ( 2.25" ) ++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 27 - 28 ) ( 2.5" )
ring #10 disc mode ( 27 ) ( 2" ) +++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 27 ) ( 2.25" )
ring #11 disc mode ( 29 ) (2.25" ) ++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 29 ) ( 2.5" )
ring #12 disc mode ( 23 - 24 ) ( 1.75" ) ++++++++++++ All Metal ( 23 - 24 ) ( 2" )

14K chain section clasp area - disc mode ( Nothing ) +++++++++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( Barely picked it up with no ID at 1/16" )
gold nugget - disc mode ( 22 - 24 ) ( Barely at 1/16" ) ++++++++++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 23 ) ( 1/16" )
14K small clasp - disc mode ( 24 - 25 ) ( Barely at 1/16" ) +++++++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 22 - 24 ) ( 1/16" )
14K tear drop charm - disc mode ( 24 - 26 ) ( Barely at 1/16" ) +++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 25 ) ( 1/16" )
14K leaf charm - disc mode ( 21 - 23 ) ( Barely at 1/16" ) +++++++++++++++++++++ All Metal ( 21 - 24 ) ( 1/16" )

Conclusions...

I've been running the gain on the F44 at 60% till now. Today it was at 30% the same as the F5.
The performance of the F44 dropped of immensely when the gain was lowered to 30%.

With the threshold set at zero on the F5 and both detectors set at 30% gain...
The winner of the 7" coil competition goes to the F5!

Next up... The 7" Coil Three Ring Circus

Three rings.... one platinum and two 18K
You see what they look like and how much they weigh, but can you tell us how they will read out on the F5 & F44?
This will be a multiple choice "Ring IQ Test"

HH

LW Steve