Critterhunter
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You're welcome.
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Sovereign ID Chart (Most Extensive Yet)
- Thread starter Critterhunter
- Start date
Critterhunter
New member
Just a small update. After further investigation it is impossible to calibrate the meter so that silver reads 181 while a clad dime reads 180. I must have been getting tricked by how easy it was to reach 181 on a silver dime versus something else. Again, bogus information.
I see many post they can tell the difference in the numbers on clad verses silver, but this can not be done with just meter numbers, but have seen many well experienced Sovereign users say with the target is before they dig it as from experience they can tell how fast the target climbs to 180 on the meter and how fast it will lock on as silver will climb faster and lock on faster too in many cases, not 100% accurate but it does help. Even meters with a extra digit can not ID better or the 550 meters some feel because it has a bigger spread of numbers you can ID better, what I see is numbers jumping around more and not locking on like a 180 meter does.
Critterhunter
New member
I've noticed that silver or say clad quarters get up to the 180 number real quick without as much "climb" to them, so long as they aren't real deep. And I have noticed a few times before digging that silver seems to have a sweeter and softer sound to it than clads and to some extent than even wheats. Nothing I can lay my finger on but I have been in those situations and said "They sounds a little different/higher pitched/sweeter/etc", and had a small suspicion it was going to be silver. Beyond that if it's 180 at any kind of depth or shallow but in chance than I'm digging for sure, so it doesn't really matter as much to me what kind of coin I think it is.
I've sort of noticed too that copper pennies will "linger" around 178 or 179 as they make it to 180, while say a clad dime will tend to get up to 180 a little quicker, but not as "instantly" as a clad quarter or silver. Still, these things are hard to nail down and come more from feel than an actual description.
I've sort of noticed too that copper pennies will "linger" around 178 or 179 as they make it to 180, while say a clad dime will tend to get up to 180 a little quicker, but not as "instantly" as a clad quarter or silver. Still, these things are hard to nail down and come more from feel than an actual description.
Critterhunter
New member
I got this question in a PM...
I know my way around some things on a computer but I have some big blind spots in other areas, so I'm posting this here to see if others have any quick and easy ways to select the size of printing the ID chart out for him to use? The only thing I know off hand is by using the stretch/skew function in Paint to shrink the picture (say try 75% for both the horizontal and verticle aspects), but I think there is also a way (?) via the print function in windows to set the size of something being printed out too? Anybody? Either way, could use some tips for printing it out to your desired size.
Name withoutheld said:
I know my way around some things on a computer but I have some big blind spots in other areas, so I'm posting this here to see if others have any quick and easy ways to select the size of printing the ID chart out for him to use? The only thing I know off hand is by using the stretch/skew function in Paint to shrink the picture (say try 75% for both the horizontal and verticle aspects), but I think there is also a way (?) via the print function in windows to set the size of something being printed out too? Anybody? Either way, could use some tips for printing it out to your desired size.
deepdiger60
New member
In a pinch i use this it is free and very easy to understand no download necessary , it re-sizes pics perfect great photo edit program . Jim
http://www.picmonkey.com/
http://www.picmonkey.com/
Critterhunter
New member
The ID chart in this thread is a compilation of all 180 ID charts I know of (all using noise band 2 to match older Sovereigns). I then did my own readings of various coins and added them to the chart, and even noted where they conflicted with other charts, along with scanning numerous common trash items people may come across in large numbers depending on site location (such as shotgun shells, fishing sinkers, pulltabs, etc).
A large selection of random round/square tabs (by digging all signals at more than several old and new sites) and over 100 random gold rings (a non-bias test pool that weren't found by favoring certain zones...anything above iron was scooped by a friend water hunting with an Excal at numerous "high class" and "low class" swimming locations over several years, regardless of the quality of the signal) were also charted and the percentages of where they fell in VDI numbers is also listed in the chart.
This thread had already linked to the original massive thread on the number crunching of the rings/tabs, but I wanted to link this thread to a more condensed and to the point thread on the meaning of those ring/tab numbers, since the percentages are directly reported in the ID chart in this thread. The below condensed "splitting hairs on rings" thread also has a number of thread links to ring hunting strategies on land by both location and selective (or non-selective) digging techniques.
Always interesting to read other's theories and strategies on how they go after rings when turf hunting. Regardless of whether you believe you can or can't sway the odds in your favor in terms of your trash to treasure ratio while land hunting for rings, trying to is half the fun IMO.
Everybody is always trying to figure out how to beat the odds in Vegas. Consider this though...If somebody did figure out a way to slant the odds in their favor...Do you think you'd ever hear about it? I have no doubt many people would never tell. Think about that. 
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1720979,page=1
A large selection of random round/square tabs (by digging all signals at more than several old and new sites) and over 100 random gold rings (a non-bias test pool that weren't found by favoring certain zones...anything above iron was scooped by a friend water hunting with an Excal at numerous "high class" and "low class" swimming locations over several years, regardless of the quality of the signal) were also charted and the percentages of where they fell in VDI numbers is also listed in the chart.
This thread had already linked to the original massive thread on the number crunching of the rings/tabs, but I wanted to link this thread to a more condensed and to the point thread on the meaning of those ring/tab numbers, since the percentages are directly reported in the ID chart in this thread. The below condensed "splitting hairs on rings" thread also has a number of thread links to ring hunting strategies on land by both location and selective (or non-selective) digging techniques.
Always interesting to read other's theories and strategies on how they go after rings when turf hunting. Regardless of whether you believe you can or can't sway the odds in your favor in terms of your trash to treasure ratio while land hunting for rings, trying to is half the fun IMO.
Everybody is always trying to figure out how to beat the odds in Vegas. Consider this though...If somebody did figure out a way to slant the odds in their favor...Do you think you'd ever hear about it? I have no doubt many people would never tell. Think about that. http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1720979,page=1
Critterhunter
New member
Wanted to link this ID chart thread to a good discussion on where wheats, indians, and zincs, and nickels read for people...
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1774819
And might as well re-post this info I posted there, because I plan to update my ID chart soon with this information on the metal makeup of various years of indians, wheats, copper memorials, and zinc pennies too. I listed a bit of that and the dates in the prior chart posted in this thread, but I'd like to add more to that aspect of it down the road here. I need to update that chart anyway and start trying to compress some of the double listed stuff down. Just wanted to include any conflicting coin IDs from the various charts I found. As I continue to scan in more coins I'll try to compress the listing so it's not as long as it is now. Still, if you shrink it down to print it's about 1 and 1/2 times the length of a pack of smokes so it's not too big of an issue for me to carry in my holster with my digger and Pro Pointer at all times.
Re-Post...
1859 to 1864 indians (88% copper, 12% nickle, which metal detecting circles call a "fatty" Indian due to them being a bit thicker than normal Indians) read 160 to 164. That's right in the pull tab range. The nickle is pulling them down a bit in conductivity, hence the lower VDI reading.
My own readings of 1864 to 1909 Indians (refered to as bronze, which is 95% copper, 5% tin and zinc) read 173 for me, but the other charts list them from there up to 176.
My readings of 1909 to 1958 wheats read 173.
I also scanned some other Indians and wheats that read 176 and 177, but I didn't note their dates in my chart.
I scanned some wheats and copper memeorials that read 179 to 180, but I didn't note the dates on those either.
Zincs usually read 173 or 176, but a few can read between those two numbers or as high as 177 when I've scanned them. Very rare though. For me when digging them they are either 173 or 176 99% of the time. I've dug a few ate up zincs that drop to as low as about 171 or so.
I love digging those odd numbers between 169 (the highest pull tab reading 99% of the time) and 173 for zincs. 170, 171, and 172 are rare for me to come across at sites and often I've dug some cool relics in that number range. They are so rare anyway to come across that I never pass those up, and I keep expecting to dig a bigger gold ring with a high K value, or a smaller one but with a low K value, that can easily read right up in that number range if not higher.
The Sovereign is blessed in that it's 180 meter has super high resolution from foil all the way up to copper penny. Most machines (and I haven't seen one yet that has this high of resolution of the 180 meter in that range???) can't finely separate high reading tabs from zincs, or especially low reading tabs from nickles, but the Sovereign's real high conductivity resolution (from foil to copper penny) can make these kinds of distinctions.
That's why nickels are almost a sure bet on this machine. Around 143 to 146 with a nice round smooth tone and I'll bet money on it being a nickel. Dug a bunch of older ones at pounded out sites just because other machines can't distinctly ID them from tabs, and also the fact that their "nickel" range bleeds lower into more of the foil range too. That's where the old "dig the nickel zone to find gold rings" thing comes from...machines with a much wider nickel zone that are soaking up a wider range of targets a good bit above and below where a nickel will read that they consider a "nickel" ID.
I've dug 4 or 5 war nickels with my GT that read right around a normal nickel of about 144 to 146, but I know some can read higher for people due to the silver content. I've also dug some old Vs or buffalos as low as about 136 or 139 or so, but they still had that nice smooth round sound and the nickel tone to them. But I've dug Vs/buffalos that also were in pretty bad shape and still rang right in the 144 to 146 range like any modern nickel in good shape.
Far as coins above a copper penny, I've owned machines that could ID coin types (or try to anyway), but I've dug a lot of silver on several different machines that could ID coin types that they said were pennies or the clad versions of a dime or quarter but they turned out to be silver ones, so I don't trust that kind of input on what the machine thinks the coin is above copper penny. The differences in conductivity between copper pennies, clad dimes, clad quarters, silver dimes, and silver quarters is such a fine line that anything could throw the ID off (minerals, depth, being masked, on edge, being worn, etc).
For that reason when old coin hunting I don't care what kind of coin the machine thinks it might be. If the coin is deep or it's shallow but mixed in trash, I'm digging it anyway in the hopes of a silver or some other old coin. I've even dug silver dimes that read as low as zinc pennies on machines for all the reasons listed above. High resolution in the coin range also makes the ID a bit "floaty" for my tastes, causing me to question if the target is really a coin or a piece of junk.
In a sense a wider net catches more fish is the way I look at it. I think that's one of the reasons I dug so many old coins with my QXT Pro before my GT too, because the QXT is like the GT in that it has a separate zone for zincs, but copper penny and above get lumped into the same zone.
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1774819
And might as well re-post this info I posted there, because I plan to update my ID chart soon with this information on the metal makeup of various years of indians, wheats, copper memorials, and zinc pennies too. I listed a bit of that and the dates in the prior chart posted in this thread, but I'd like to add more to that aspect of it down the road here. I need to update that chart anyway and start trying to compress some of the double listed stuff down. Just wanted to include any conflicting coin IDs from the various charts I found. As I continue to scan in more coins I'll try to compress the listing so it's not as long as it is now. Still, if you shrink it down to print it's about 1 and 1/2 times the length of a pack of smokes so it's not too big of an issue for me to carry in my holster with my digger and Pro Pointer at all times.
Re-Post...
1859 to 1864 indians (88% copper, 12% nickle, which metal detecting circles call a "fatty" Indian due to them being a bit thicker than normal Indians) read 160 to 164. That's right in the pull tab range. The nickle is pulling them down a bit in conductivity, hence the lower VDI reading.
My own readings of 1864 to 1909 Indians (refered to as bronze, which is 95% copper, 5% tin and zinc) read 173 for me, but the other charts list them from there up to 176.
My readings of 1909 to 1958 wheats read 173.
I also scanned some other Indians and wheats that read 176 and 177, but I didn't note their dates in my chart.
I scanned some wheats and copper memeorials that read 179 to 180, but I didn't note the dates on those either.
Zincs usually read 173 or 176, but a few can read between those two numbers or as high as 177 when I've scanned them. Very rare though. For me when digging them they are either 173 or 176 99% of the time. I've dug a few ate up zincs that drop to as low as about 171 or so.
I love digging those odd numbers between 169 (the highest pull tab reading 99% of the time) and 173 for zincs. 170, 171, and 172 are rare for me to come across at sites and often I've dug some cool relics in that number range. They are so rare anyway to come across that I never pass those up, and I keep expecting to dig a bigger gold ring with a high K value, or a smaller one but with a low K value, that can easily read right up in that number range if not higher.
The Sovereign is blessed in that it's 180 meter has super high resolution from foil all the way up to copper penny. Most machines (and I haven't seen one yet that has this high of resolution of the 180 meter in that range???) can't finely separate high reading tabs from zincs, or especially low reading tabs from nickles, but the Sovereign's real high conductivity resolution (from foil to copper penny) can make these kinds of distinctions.
That's why nickels are almost a sure bet on this machine. Around 143 to 146 with a nice round smooth tone and I'll bet money on it being a nickel. Dug a bunch of older ones at pounded out sites just because other machines can't distinctly ID them from tabs, and also the fact that their "nickel" range bleeds lower into more of the foil range too. That's where the old "dig the nickel zone to find gold rings" thing comes from...machines with a much wider nickel zone that are soaking up a wider range of targets a good bit above and below where a nickel will read that they consider a "nickel" ID.
I've dug 4 or 5 war nickels with my GT that read right around a normal nickel of about 144 to 146, but I know some can read higher for people due to the silver content. I've also dug some old Vs or buffalos as low as about 136 or 139 or so, but they still had that nice smooth round sound and the nickel tone to them. But I've dug Vs/buffalos that also were in pretty bad shape and still rang right in the 144 to 146 range like any modern nickel in good shape.
Far as coins above a copper penny, I've owned machines that could ID coin types (or try to anyway), but I've dug a lot of silver on several different machines that could ID coin types that they said were pennies or the clad versions of a dime or quarter but they turned out to be silver ones, so I don't trust that kind of input on what the machine thinks the coin is above copper penny. The differences in conductivity between copper pennies, clad dimes, clad quarters, silver dimes, and silver quarters is such a fine line that anything could throw the ID off (minerals, depth, being masked, on edge, being worn, etc).
For that reason when old coin hunting I don't care what kind of coin the machine thinks it might be. If the coin is deep or it's shallow but mixed in trash, I'm digging it anyway in the hopes of a silver or some other old coin. I've even dug silver dimes that read as low as zinc pennies on machines for all the reasons listed above. High resolution in the coin range also makes the ID a bit "floaty" for my tastes, causing me to question if the target is really a coin or a piece of junk.
In a sense a wider net catches more fish is the way I look at it. I think that's one of the reasons I dug so many old coins with my QXT Pro before my GT too, because the QXT is like the GT in that it has a separate zone for zincs, but copper penny and above get lumped into the same zone.
Critterhunter
New member
First time I've seen a gold coin VDI # confirmed before digging on the Sovereign, so the VDI is a bit more trustworthy. This lucky guy dug a $2.50 gold piece and it read 160 for him, so that puts it right at the 160 to 164 VDI # for that coin in the VDI chart compilation from other charts. Just curious what noise band he was in. I'm guessing 2 since if it was 1 it might have made it read higher. I was hunting a beach yesterday and tried band 1 for a while, because oddly band 2 was nulling more in this very mineralized sand even though there was no EMI nearby at all.
I suspect particular frequencies band 2 pays attention to (it doesn't change the output frequencies, just which ones are watched on the receiving end) were having trouble with certain minerals in the sand. For now on if I can't ride sensitivity too high due to mineralized ground and I know EMI is not present, I'm flipping over to band 1 to see if for some odd reason it's causing less nulling and allowing higher sensitivity settings. With the band in 2 I could only run about 3PM. With it in 1 I could run it pointing right at the letter "C" in noise cancel on the GT's faceplate. I know there was no EMI around, and besides the machine was stable in either band with the coil not moving. Just that when I swept around band 1 nulled less in this particular mineralization. I'm going to start comparing both bands at every new site where I know there is no EMI problems and see if one band or the other seems to run at higher sensitivity or at least with less nulling.
Either way, in band 1 nickels were reading dead on at 149, where as in band 2 it's normally around 143 to 146, so that confirms what others say about band 1 raising the VDI #s of some mid conductors. That's why all the charts are done with band 2, to match the older Sovereign ID charts where older Sovereigns that can't switch bands seem to be in band 2.
Here's his thread with that find of a life time...
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1785351
PS- If you guys are ever around bad EMI around a house, try flipping to band 1. I was amazed at how well it stabilized my GT in my backyard the other day. I've always been skitish to switch to band 1 just because I don't like VDI readings on mid conductors changing on me, but just the same I think I'm going to start getting rid of that phobia, because EMI or ground might make one run better than the other, and that can make all the difference in a great find for the day and getting skunked. Whichever allows higher sensitivity or at least seems to null/chatter less is the one I'm using for now on. Just have to remember nickels read around 149 in band 1 then. From all I've read I doubt it changes the stuff from say zinc pennies on up. Most seem to think it only affects the mid range stuff. Band 2 will always be my prefered choice if I don't really see a difference in stability, but if band 1 shows me it's more stable or nulling less, or running at higher sensitivity settings due to EMI or the soil, then it's band 1 for the day at that site.
By the way, changing target VDIs due to noise bands is not unique to the BBS machines. The FBS units also suffer the same issues based on where noise cancel puts them channel wise.
I suspect particular frequencies band 2 pays attention to (it doesn't change the output frequencies, just which ones are watched on the receiving end) were having trouble with certain minerals in the sand. For now on if I can't ride sensitivity too high due to mineralized ground and I know EMI is not present, I'm flipping over to band 1 to see if for some odd reason it's causing less nulling and allowing higher sensitivity settings. With the band in 2 I could only run about 3PM. With it in 1 I could run it pointing right at the letter "C" in noise cancel on the GT's faceplate. I know there was no EMI around, and besides the machine was stable in either band with the coil not moving. Just that when I swept around band 1 nulled less in this particular mineralization. I'm going to start comparing both bands at every new site where I know there is no EMI problems and see if one band or the other seems to run at higher sensitivity or at least with less nulling.
Either way, in band 1 nickels were reading dead on at 149, where as in band 2 it's normally around 143 to 146, so that confirms what others say about band 1 raising the VDI #s of some mid conductors. That's why all the charts are done with band 2, to match the older Sovereign ID charts where older Sovereigns that can't switch bands seem to be in band 2.
Here's his thread with that find of a life time...
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1785351
PS- If you guys are ever around bad EMI around a house, try flipping to band 1. I was amazed at how well it stabilized my GT in my backyard the other day. I've always been skitish to switch to band 1 just because I don't like VDI readings on mid conductors changing on me, but just the same I think I'm going to start getting rid of that phobia, because EMI or ground might make one run better than the other, and that can make all the difference in a great find for the day and getting skunked. Whichever allows higher sensitivity or at least seems to null/chatter less is the one I'm using for now on. Just have to remember nickels read around 149 in band 1 then. From all I've read I doubt it changes the stuff from say zinc pennies on up. Most seem to think it only affects the mid range stuff. Band 2 will always be my prefered choice if I don't really see a difference in stability, but if band 1 shows me it's more stable or nulling less, or running at higher sensitivity settings due to EMI or the soil, then it's band 1 for the day at that site.
By the way, changing target VDIs due to noise bands is not unique to the BBS machines. The FBS units also suffer the same issues based on where noise cancel puts them channel wise.
Critterhunter
New member
A friend who is adept at using Excel took my chart and re-did it so it would print easier and also spruced it up a bit with certain things to look better. I think he did an excellent job. He converted that to a JPEG file I'm posting below.
I've had various people Email or PM me in the past having trouble printing the prior picture file I posted easily to the size it should be (or a size they want). I just test-printed the picture below and it ends up being bigger than it should be, I think because of perhaps how Findmall blows up a picture when you click on it?
For that reason, I have the original Excel file he sent me too so if anybody wants a copy of that shoot me a PM with your Email address, as this forum won't accept an Excel file format. With the Excel file you can then edit or add things to suit your tastes to make a custom chart for yourself. He also told me the Excel version of this chart prints perfectly to the size I wanted so if you have issues with getting this JPEG below to print to the size you want you might want the Excel copy to print out.
The notes about why and how this chart was done when I made it can be found in prior posts in this thread, so refer to that for further info. Sooner or later I'm going to scan in more coins (mine are listed in bold in the chart) so I can confirm or eliminate various double listings (the non-bold) I compiled from other Sovereign charts I dug up. Until I get around to that I wanted to double list any conflicting numbers to be sure all bases are covered.
The best thing to do is fold the chart in half so the trash listings are on the back and the "keepers" listed on the right end up being on the front. If you don't have a laminator then just clear box tape over the chart to a piece of cardboard or say some thin balsa wood. Lacking lamination, the clear box tape will protect it from rain or mud.
[attachment 252348 SovIDChart.JPG]
I've had various people Email or PM me in the past having trouble printing the prior picture file I posted easily to the size it should be (or a size they want). I just test-printed the picture below and it ends up being bigger than it should be, I think because of perhaps how Findmall blows up a picture when you click on it?
For that reason, I have the original Excel file he sent me too so if anybody wants a copy of that shoot me a PM with your Email address, as this forum won't accept an Excel file format. With the Excel file you can then edit or add things to suit your tastes to make a custom chart for yourself. He also told me the Excel version of this chart prints perfectly to the size I wanted so if you have issues with getting this JPEG below to print to the size you want you might want the Excel copy to print out.
The notes about why and how this chart was done when I made it can be found in prior posts in this thread, so refer to that for further info. Sooner or later I'm going to scan in more coins (mine are listed in bold in the chart) so I can confirm or eliminate various double listings (the non-bold) I compiled from other Sovereign charts I dug up. Until I get around to that I wanted to double list any conflicting numbers to be sure all bases are covered.
The best thing to do is fold the chart in half so the trash listings are on the back and the "keepers" listed on the right end up being on the front. If you don't have a laminator then just clear box tape over the chart to a piece of cardboard or say some thin balsa wood. Lacking lamination, the clear box tape will protect it from rain or mud.
[attachment 252348 SovIDChart.JPG]
Critterhunter
New member
Just shot the 3 file formats to your Email.
Reason I need an Email address is Findmall won't allow certain formats to be uploaded.
Reason I need an Email address is Findmall won't allow certain formats to be uploaded.
Critterhunter
New member
Over time I've developed a friendship with a local coin shop owner. He has offered to let me bring in my GT and scan any coins I want. Needless to scan any silver coins that are dime or bigger in size, since those will obviously read 180. Already had scanned in the silver 3 cent piece I found a while back, so the only coins I plan to scan in are some sub-dime silver stuff along with the other odd coins that read lower on the scale. When this is done I'll update the chart. Differences in readings from prior charts though can obviously be due to the coin condition or if metals or minerals have leached in or out of it, so when stuff differs I'll double list the conflictions to prior charts, and when stuff agrees I'll eliminate any double listings there might be to condense the chart size more. I'm planning to also scan in some certain "common" relics, such as certain old buttons that are fairly common to each other in size and type.
Critterhunter
New member
Here's a thread on a half dime reading 177, which jives with the ID chart numbers on that from others...
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1861540
Still planning to head up to the local friend's coin shop to scan some of the "odd" old coins that read lower in VDI than most coins. Once done I'll be re-editing the chart to list those, and also can then finally start widdling down some VDI double listings of certain coins from other charts I compiled into it since then I'll have confirmed stuff for myself...
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1861540
Still planning to head up to the local friend's coin shop to scan some of the "odd" old coins that read lower in VDI than most coins. Once done I'll be re-editing the chart to list those, and also can then finally start widdling down some VDI double listings of certain coins from other charts I compiled into it since then I'll have confirmed stuff for myself...