Sov GT as an old coin shooter?

[Critterhunter]

only two logical reasons to ask that sort of question? you forgot learning, but I see its the words and debate you really treasure, not the truth of a matter.
nobody can change your mind once an opinions been formed? for your sake I hope thats not true. Out.

I wouldn't say that. I'm more than willing to change my opinion if I'm basing my initial position on what others have said, having since been convinced otherwise by a more persuasive arguement. If, however, I'm basing my opinion on what I've found to be true for myself (in this particular instance of metal detecting, by conducting my own tests), then there is no reason to ask such a question unless I'm seeking to draw out conflict. As I said before, others may disagree and this is just what I found to be true for me. I have no doubt others may hold different opinions.

There is a distinction herer. I'm not saying Iron Mask doesn't work on the Explorer. Do I think the Explorer has better ability in certain respects to detect coins masked in iron? Yes. Do I think that ability is stronger or better than another machine's ability to unmask coins in their own way? Nope. The Explorer may do better if the targets are positioned in such a way that it's stronger at identifying them, and vise versa.

For instance, the QXT Pro has such recovery speed that I can pull a perfect coin ID from a silver dime with a piece of iron touching it's side so long as coil placement is proper. My experience is that the Explorer can also pull a coin ID from the dime but in a different way. Neither one is necessarily better than the other to me.

Some of the things I've seen the GT do probably do deserve special notice in my book. From what I've seen it's iron mask feature works much better at producing a good target masked by iron. Maybe that's more due to the Explore's seeming inability to lock onto one target ID and stay there even if it isn't masked. That could very well have shaped my opinion, but not for the exact same reason.

 

[jbow]

n/t

 

[jbow]

The Sovereign does lock onto a good target and give the most stable TID I have seen in any Minelab... or Fisher for that matter. I have to say that the E-TRAC will lock pretty well but I pretty much use ferrous/2 tone/relic pattern/pitch hold. No detector I have ever used will rival the SovereignGT on gold and silver jewelry. I proved that to myself one afternoon around the backdoor of an old farmhouse. I have all my detectors with me. I tried the ET first because it was newest, the SE, Tejon, T2, and F75. All I could get were iffy, one way signals and signals that jumped all over, nothing that seemed worth digging. Then I decided to try my old GT, it was my first detector. I immediately hit a solid two way good sounding signal. (I am talking about an area maybe 8x8 foot that I was hunting). The first signal was a white gold circle with small diamonds all arouns, next signal was also good sounding, a small silver thingy that said "spoiled" on it. Then I dug 4 wheaties, all deep, about 10", they sounded good and read good on the meter, two were 1818 and two were 1919.

I don't know why the other machines didn't work well there and the GT did.. but I know they didn't and it did!

I still use the ET and the ET more but I don't know why... now that I think about it.

J

 

[jbow]

You can adjust the high tone on the ferrous side of the E-TRAC to match that of the Explorer. I don't remember how off the top of my head but I remember doing it. I don't know if you can adjust it to match the high tone of it's conductive side but you might be able to make them match. I know that you cannot get to same range of tones on ferrous and counductive on the ET but you may be able to make the tone of a silver quater the same on both sides... not sure though.

J

 

[Neil]

The Sovereign does lock onto a good target and give the most stable TID I have seen in any Minelab... or Fisher for that matter. I have to say that the E-TRAC will lock pretty well but I pretty much use ferrous/2 tone/relic pattern/pitch hold. No detector I have ever used will rival the SovereignGT on gold and silver jewelry. I proved that to myself one afternoon around the backdoor of an old farmhouse. I have all my detectors with me. I tried the ET first because it was newest, the SE, Tejon, T2, and F75. All I could get were iffy, one way signals and signals that jumped all over, nothing that seemed worth digging. Then I decided to try my old GT, it was my first detector. I immediately hit a solid two way good sounding signal. (I am talking about an area maybe 8x8 foot that I was hunting). The first signal was a white gold circle with small diamonds all arouns, next signal was also good sounding, a small silver thingy that said "spoiled" on it. Then I dug 4 wheaties, all deep, about 10", they sounded good and read good on the meter, two were 1818 and two were 1919.

I don't know why the other machines didn't work well there and the GT did.. but I know they didn't and it did!

I still use the ET and the ET more but I don't know why... now that I think about it.

J

good question Julien, why are you still using your etrac? if your hunting has shown the sov gt as the best than man that oughta be what your using. I know it can be fun to play around but for most hunting sounds like your gt should be what your using. maybe start using it as your main detector and you will see why you use the etrac

I think all detectors can suprise us from time to time, its the constants that keep you leaning towards one or another. critterhunters only had his sov a short while so what will be interesting is seeing what he has to say in a year or two.

If minelab remakes the sov in any way Im sure I will try one, Ive had and used them all over the years so please dont think Im bashing it, just not placing at the top of my list anymore like I used to. I can still remember buying my first one, the original, and wasnt online then, only saw a pic of one in a magazine. It was a guy leaning over at a beach, cleaning off a coin, some gold coin if I remember right out of some black sand. A friend and I found a dealer about an hour from here and went to look at them and we both bought one, paid top dollar for it, almost the same price as the new Sov gts. The excals came out shortly after that, I remembered the dealer told us and we went and had a look at them also but at the time I decided to stick with my 1280X for the water and beach hunted the sov. Went through all the sunray and coilteck coils and accessories also, this is one addictive hobby

 

[Critterhunter]

The Sovereign does lock onto a good target and give the most stable TID I have seen in any Minelab... or Fisher for that matter.
J

That's my experience as well with the Explorer. Never liked that because a jumpy ID is one of the things I some times use to decide if a target is junk or not in really trashy areas where I don't want to dig every signal.

I'm very impressed with what little exposure I've had to the Etrac in the field. It solves many of the complaints I had with the Explorer, balance being just one of them. If the future comparisons I make of the GT to the Etrac in the field prove the Etrac has certain advantages for my style of hunting I may sell the GT and buy one. So far from what I've seen and read I don't feel I'll need to do that, but that could change. I look at it this way...if you want best depth and performance in just about any ground conditions where else are you going to go than Minelab? For maximum performance/depth for me there just aren't any other options. Since I don't want to go back to an Explorer that rules that out and only leaves the Etrac.

I'll probably be picking up an M6 down the road though for those days when I want something more user friendly. It has a large selection of coils like the GT and there's dust something about the smooth audio/vdi and balance of a Whites. It's VDI (same as MXT) and multitones (more than MXT) make it a killer gold ring machine and also to hunt for coins in heavy trash. Most days I'd rather use my GT for this but there are times when I just want the more friendly features and feel of a Whites. Hoping my attempts to lighten up the GT will make the weight issue non-existant. Right now the S-5 fixes that but I'd like to get the machine light enough to be happy using the 10" without hip mounting as well. If anything the M6 will make a good scouting machine to go back to with the GT to hunt the area more carefuly.

 

[jbow]

I don't think the GT has nearly the unmasking ability of the ET. The GT may well have the ET beat on pure depth but so many good targets are left in so called "hunted out" sites. These targets aren't that deep but most detectors and for that matter detectorists miss them. They are all "iffy" signals that may only give a one way signal that is good. With the GT you will have to dig lots of pieces of iron and especially pieces of square nails to get them, if you get them at all. With the ET if you get a consistant correct conductive number from even one direction, for instance a 33 (lead) and hte ferrous number stays between 8 and 20 (the closer to 12 the better) there is a good chance you've hit a masked bullet that other detectors and other hunters walk right over... and you can swing the ET quite a bit faster than the GT. I keep mine set fast=on; deep=on; Jason's relic pattern; pitch hold (like the Sovereign); ferrous sounds; 2 tones. 2 Tones in ferrous sounds will stop the falsing. I get falsing with 4 tone or multi but not with 2 tones. Sometimes I will switch to a coin or park pattern and conductive/multi but a lot of the time I hunt coins in the relic pattern/ferrous/2 tones... I just have to look at the meter a lot AND... since they straightened the conductive line and the cursor no longer jumps high left to low right like the Expolrer did... the "smartscreen" or whatever they call it now really tells me nothing, so I just keep it in digital with the big numbers and it WORKS FOR ME!!

I still like the GT too though and for sentimental reasons i'd never sell it, plus... as soon as I did i'd want to get another one. No detector has as stable a TID as the Sovereign... and (shhhh... no detector works through a bunch of iron and trash as well as a Tesoro with a small 5.75 DD coil, everyone should have a Tejon or a Compadre with the full 180 degree disc I can work thhrough small irion with the Tejon and never hear it... but it will scream when it hits a bullet or button, at least in my ground and the 5.75 never comes off)... IMO.

J

 

[Critterhunter]

You've got me remembering all the little things I miss about the Explorer, namely certain controls. A friend had an Etrac but sold it after a few months. It impressed me with it's better balance than the Explorer and he was happy with it's better ability to separate the trash. At the time I didn't have a GT yet but it didn't take him long to locate two deep silver dimes. I swept over those two undug separate targets with my QXT Pro and it was the first time I couldn't get a good signal out of a silver coin at depth that another machine could. One I could barely hear and was about at the limits of what I would consider an "iffy" coin signal worth digging. The other I think I mostly couldn't hear at all but don't remember exactly. A friend also tried with his 6000 pro xl and couldn't get anything. He unplugged his headphones on the Etrac and I couldn't believe how hard that thing was hitting on them. That's when I said it's time to make another move back to Minelab.

I didn't want another Explorer for various reasons and wasn't impressed with what what I saw a friend's Quatro do in the field, so it was either the Etrac or GT. At the time the cash wouldn't allow for an Etrac and they are almost impossible to find used anyways. I figured if the GT was better than the Explorer in certain respects it would be my next machine for years to come, but if I think the Etrac is going to offer me better ability for the conditions and style of hunting I do I can sell the GT and use that money for it down the road. I've got to admit that when money allowed I was really hoping the GT would give me reason to sell it and go for the Etrac, but so far this machine has given me every reason to make it my top choice. Almost like the old girl is going to do whatever it takes to prove it's self to me and stay in my line up.

I'm finding that the GT isn't as easily tricked by iron as many machines I've owned. I'd have to say it's right at the top on my list for it's ability to tell me when a target is trash or iron by it's audio. I haven't really dug but a few nails or rusty objects with it, and this was in spots where I was digging the fringe signals to make sure they weren't coins. Mostly I can tell easily if the target is going to be a nail but have dug it just to be sure. After reading about people saying Iron Mask On would unmask coins but give you the penalty of being real noisy in iron I was worried about that. I don't think it's even close to being noisy in heavy target areas like this, but then I mostly hunt with my machines with no discrimination (but still in discriminate mode) so I can hear and "feel" what the target layout is at a site. I like to know where the iron is and want to hear it. It took me a little while to get used to not hearing it with the GT, but I learned I could "hear" the iron by noticing when the threshold nulled out. Worse comes to worse I can always flip to all metal and hunt that way when I miss hearing the iron chatter.

I'd say it ranks right up there with my QXT Pro as far as the audio giving me a clue as to a piece of iron pretending to be a coin. It's just a matter of learning what traits to listen for on this machine versus the QXT. I always considered the audio on many of the Whites to be the best in the industry, with very telling harmonics that will break up or clue you into a bad target in other various ways. The Explorer's numerous tones were a big improvement, but at the same time to me it didn't have the length or "beef" of the signal for me to listen to and pick apart. That's one big advantage of the Sovereign to me. It seems to have the length and detail in it's harmonics of a Whites, yet also offers the numerous tones of a Minelab for even finer detail to analyze with my ears.

 

[go-rebels]

I look at it this way...if you want best depth and performance in just about any ground conditions where else are you going to go than Minelab? For maximum performance/depth for me there just aren't any other options. Since I don't want to go back to an Explorer that rules that out and only leaves the Etrac.

Just curious Critter, have you had the opportunity to try a new Fisher F75 LTD? I feel this machine is so different from the original F75, with it's two new modes, that it really needed to be identified my an entirely new model number. I loved my Sovereign, and sold my Ex-II when my LTD proved to be a better silver hunter, in my red clay soil, using my hunting style, compared to either of the Minelab units.

 

[Critterhunter]

No, but I've read enough good things about that detector to be curious to try one. From what I hear they still love deep iron, though, which I can live with if it's got the depth and fast recovery speed to fill that niche for me in my line up. From what I've read it still can not handle various rough ground conditions that the BBS/FBS machines can without losing some depth. I'm also curious about the audio, VDI, and discrimination circuits on this unit. I always felt Fishers were about ten years behind the competition in those respects compared to a Whites but am willing to find out how much that's changed in the last several years.

 

[go-rebels]

I live in the upstate of SC and my red clay soil is some of the worst around the Southeast. There are some sites that are virtually unhuntable. In fact, Dankowski reported a site in Eastern Georgia, within a hundred miles of me, where his Explorer could not see a dime below one inch! (Now THAT'S losing depth) His F75 LTD was similarly affected. He likened it to hunting over a long ago buried tin roof. It was so exceptional that he packed up 40lb of soil and sent it to Fisher for further analysis.

My Ex-II was my "go to" machine for years before I tried my first F75, but the Ex-II was still a hair deeper in the red clay compared to the original F75. Now the LTD comes along and it is now my deepest detector, besting the Ex-II by about one inch on deep silver dimes. I still love the Sovereign design, with their sweet sounding tones, but needed to give it up to use a lighter unit. I'd still like to get a clean used GT should one come along at a fair price.

I've have not found falsing on deep iron to be a problem with the LTD, but do occasionally find very deep iron reading as a very high VDI with the FeO meter pegged. But those are easy to discern and do not require digging after you look at the FeO and depth meters. Using the LTD, I very, very rarely dig an old nail that gives a good tone with a good VDI.

I had an Etrac for a short time but did find the small iron falsing to be a problem for me running in conductive mode. I don't remember so much iron falsing using my old Sov XS or Ex-II.

Fisher is doing some very different things with their newest lines of detectors. The F75 audio and VID are purposely disconnected, which is very much the opposite of how my old Sov used to run with its Sunray meter. There's a lot of info to be had there. Sensitivity does not drop with increased discrimination, even when discing out iron, foil, nickels and other mid-conductivity targets like pulltabs and aluminum bottle caps. Very unusual indeed and worth a look if you haven't handled a newer Fisher model.

I'd be curious as you your impression.

 

[chuck ky]

when i got my t-2 every one was talking about how they were finding stuff in hunted out places. if i hunt a new spot i do okay but when i hunt most of my places that i hunted wth the sovereign i get nothing. i got an explorer xs and have found some coins in these places. i got a t-2 ltd for a relic hunt but its the same with it, nothing in places that i hit with the sovereign.

 

[Nauti]

Same here chuck,i had a t2 but i found out the machine did not live up to all the hype.Don't get me wrong,the t2 is a great machine but i would not use one in preference over the gt.At the moment i'm having my best ever results since i took the time to learn the gt properly....and listened to the advice of all the gt users on this forum.Regards,Neil.

 

[go-rebels]

I've never owned a T-2 but the concensus on the Fisher forums is that the T-2 is slightly less deep than the original F75 and the original F75 has less depth than the F75 LTD. Now my experience tells me that the original F75 had slightly less depth compared to my Ex-II, in my red clay dirt. This isn't a logic test but performance of the F75 LTD cannot be extrapolated using a 1st generation Teknetics T-2.

The original F75 needs a medium-fast speed to ID correctly, both audio and VID. This was a big difference for me compared to my previous ML units. Swing slow, or do the ML wiggle and the signal disappears. I nearly trashed my original F75 before I figured this out and a new user coming from a ML unit will most likely experience similar frustration. I like the fact that the F75 LTD running in the new 'modes' is much more tolerant of a slower coil speed.

 

[chuck ky]

i have read either in the manual or on the forums to swing the t-2 fast for better results. when i have asked some of the better t-2hunters this they say to swing it slow. i guess i need to get my sovereign fixed so i can compare some signals with both.

 

[go-rebels]

When hunting deep silver, a slow swing of the F75 will give a broken audio response and a jumpy VID. Swing fast and you'll get a sharp, "rounded" audio signal and a consistent VID. It's really something to experience: the faster the swing, the more repeatable the audio and VID!

This is not always a good thing. Swinging fast covers more ground, even if it's a repeat in a perpendicular direction, and that's nice, but you can't swing fast for 8hrs straight.

 

[jbow]

Hey friend... (and I agree)... Go-Rebels!

I like my F LTD better every time I use it and earlier in this thread I had forgotten about a short hunt a couple of weeks ago at an old churchyard. I mostly used the LTD and it was slammin'. When I hit a coin I knew it. I was running BP mode 4H tones disc=0 and sens=50. Some of the targets were deeper than I wanted to dig because of the pasty way the clay was due to being so wet it would make too much of a mess if I dug too deep, the grass isn't very thick there... I am sure you know the sort of thing I am talking about. Anyway, I was digging coins easily at 8" with the correct TID using the LTD.

I did not have the SovereignGT with me but I plan on taking it there. I did have the E-TRAC and I was very surprised to find the LTD was easier to use, just as quiet and gave me a quicker and very stable TID. I think the LTD outperformed the ET, at least on that site. No unmasking involved, just beep-ID-dig.

I imagine the GT will perform just as well there but it will not cover the area as fast.

Still, the Sovereign is an excellent coinshooter but IMO, not the best at unmasking, not the worst either. It is according to the ground and the type of trash I think.

We have a place in Kennesaw that sounds like your ground. It is called Brushy Mountain, it may not be quite as bad. I know Andy has hunted there and could probably compare the two types of soil. I haven't hunted up there a lot but the only things i've found have been with the T2 and small coil and the V3 with the 4x6. The V3 found a percussion cap and the T2 found a small piece of a bullet. The targets there are not deep but the groung masks everything terribly. however, people are finding a good bit of bullets and buttons using the Garrett Infinium LS and the White's TDI. Have you considered trying one of them in your soil? They seem to have a bit of a learning curve but they sisc between ferrous and non-ferrous... if they disc farther than that... I don't know about it. My buddy Roy has an LS and Saturday he showed me about 10 fired minnies and some buttons from his last few trips up there and... that place has been hunted by EVERYONE. You can ask Andy about it and Tom may well have hunted there before. Anyway, if your ground is that bad I think you really need to try either the LS or the TDI. You'll dig a lot of trash but you'll also defeat that mineralization.

Julien

 

[jbow]

That speaks well for the Sovereign huh? I believe you too. You might try the little coil on the T2 and find a little something more and i'd be willing to wager that an E-TRAC would find a good bit of good targets, if you set it up right and don't try to make it be an Explorer... people who use the ET in a hunted out place and set it in conductive won't be able to tell a false from an iffy hit. Two tone/ferrous/relic pattern/ fast=on/deep=on/pitch hold/digital screen... auto+3 or less and it will chirp on or give good one way signals on masked targets. 4 tones will false multi will false more. The conductive number don't lie. An Explorer may do as well, with the Pro coil and if it is set to 2 tones and ferrous sounds or anyway so that it will not give a high false on small iron or well, on anything.

I'd really be interested to see what an LTD (either T2 or F75) running in BP would do there, that would interest me a lot.

I wish they would make a version of the Pro coil for the Sovereign... that would ROCK!!!

Then again... you may have found everything with the Sovereign if you worked it low and slow... I wouldn't be surprised really.

But hey.. GOOD WORK!!

J

 

[jbow]

First Texas says that the faster you swing either of the originals, the better it IDs and the more depth they will get. They make it clear that you should not "wiggle" but swing the coil past the target both ways to get the best TID... sometimes it don't seem like the right thing to do though when you hit 4 or 5 targets each time, but it works.

(The "wiggle" works really well on the V3 using the D2 coil.)

I like the LTD because I can swing it slower in BP, in fact I think it works better if you swing it slower and in CL mode you have to swing really slow but it works well too and is deeper than BP... so they say.

J

 

[Critterhunter]

I'd be curious of your impression.

(in relation to the F75LTD...)

I've come across good random remarks about this machine to be very interested in it, and the recent coversation between you guys about it compared to other high performance detectors has me even more interested. I also was curious about that T-2 from things I've heard but it appears that's out now. The only problem with the LTD is from what I hear it's a very hard machine to find used. Too many people know what they have and they didn't make very many from what I understand. What's the average re-sale price on one of those anyway?

By the way, the conversation between you guys above was very interesting reading. That's the kind'a "way deep" detector/coil comparison info I like to read about. Too many people are too shy about their views because they don't want to offend other brand owners. The heck with that PC stuff...