Sound Bins

[DukeOBass]

There has been some discussion here about the hope that Minelab would add a 5th sound bin in Combine Mode. I would like to suggest, what I think, could possible be a better idea for Combine Mode Sound Bin choices. It would be very cool if MineLab could give the user a slide bar like they use for Volume where you could arrow back and forth between say 2 to 10 for your total number of bin across the conductive spectrum. That would probably be a very easy upgrade to accomplish. I'm just throwing 10 out as an arbitrary number it could be right on up to 50.

If anyone has the ear of a MineLab engineer, please make the suggestion to them.

 

[unearth]

"Sounds" good to me!!

 

[Beyonder]

Or better yet sound "blocks" Lets say you on the hunt for nickels. So u can have a specific tone for a "block" of numbers. I.E. 10-15 fe and 10-14 co so the nickel tone would be anywhere from 10-10 to 15-14. This way u can leave the rest open and avoid any type of masking due to discrimination.

 

[JamesM]

Or better yet sound "blocks" Lets say you on the hunt for nickels. So u can have a specific tone for a "block" of numbers. I.E. 10-15 fe and 10-14 co so the nickel tone would be anywhere from 10-10 to 15-14. This way u can leave the rest open and avoid any type of masking due to discrimination.

We already have something similar to that with the Combine tone profile. The CTX is not like the ETrac, you don't get masking because of discrimination. I'm pretty sure that the CTX uses tone disc....If you look at the screen when you go over a disced out target, the TID will still display, and if you go over a target that isn't disced out, you get the tone, and the TID. All that said, I still prefer to hunt, most of the time, with an open screen, because it is easier for me to identify a false.

 

[lse450cc]

What I would like to see. Is volume adjustment for each bin.so that when I was hunting in iron infested sites. I could turn down the volume .
I still want to hear iron but just not as loud as that other targets.

 

[squirrel1]

An iron volumne control and even a o freq possibility is the way to go. I don't mind hearing iron, but once I'm in the site I would like to trun it off in combine mode.

 

[Digger]

You could effectively "turn off the iron" by duplicating your Pattern One into Pattern Two, then rejecting the ferrous items (lower bin) in Pattern Two. This would give you "no tone nulling" on the ferrous bin, when you switch to Pattern Two, while leaving the tones in the four conductive bins as they are in Pattern One. Just a thought. HH Randy

 

[DukeOBass]

That would probably defeat any benefit of running in an open screen.

 

[Digger]

Agreed. Out of habit, I also prefer to use an open screen (except for FE line 35) in my Pattern 2 setups. However, with the speed at which the CTX 3030 is able to reset between targets, and the ability to see multiple targets under the coil simultaneously, the ability of FE-Coin to provide the TID of the "coin type" targets, the question then becomes...... what is the benefit of using the open screen? Remember, target discrimination only applies to the audio response, not the visual indication. Food for thought. HH Randy

 

[AngelicStorm]

Agreed. Out of habit, I also prefer to use an open screen (except for FE line 35) in my Pattern 2 setups. However, with the speed at which the CTX 3030 is able to reset between targets, and the ability to see multiple targets under the coil simultaneously, the ability of FE-Coin to provide the TID of the "coin type" targets, the question then becomes...... what is the benefit of using the open screen? Remember, target discrimination only applies to the audio response, not the visual indication. Food for thought. HH Randy

So let me get this right.... If I were to Disc. out Ferrous Line 35 and go over a ton of iron, I would be risking not hearing a target amongst the iron because of nulling? I saw JameM's comment up above about the CTX doesn't mask and have been thinking this entire time that it did mask if there was a lot of disc. used.

As to DukeOBass's suggestion about unique tones assigned to individual blocks, I would love to see that of at least a 6th bin. Nickels have a tendency to blend in to easily with other things due to the limited amount of bins. Even if I narrowed a bin down to 12-10 through 12-16, then I would have to either listen to many things from 12-17 through 12-39 that sound exactly the same but they be very different things or change 12-30 though 12-49 to sound the same which hardly makes sense to me. This usually takes some of the fun out of it for me since the sight of numbers between 12-30 through 12-39 excite me a bit more than numbers 12-17 through 12-29. It is especially true I would rather keep my 12-40 though 12-49 tones Higher pitched without including any other numbers. Oh and to add, making 12-01 through 12-16 the same tone will also have the same effect with to much of the same sound/enjoyment ratio. I'm surprised no one has tried to mod the sound settings to do this type of thing yet. With no sign from Minelab on this type of upgrade, it certainly turns an eye towards modding.

 

[JamesM]

So let me get this right.... If I were to Disc. out Ferrous Line 35 and go over a ton of iron, I would be risking not hearing a target amongst the iron because of nulling? I saw JameM's comment up above about the CTX doesn't mask and have been thinking this entire time that it did mask if there was a lot of disc. used.

As Digger and I both said, target disc only applies to audio. Disc doesnt' mask good targets on the CTX like some other machines. Like a lot of others, I started out using Combined/ferous coin with an open screen except for line 35. I have since changed that, I have many "modes" set up using as little or as much disc as I need, dependng on what I'm hunting and where. I no longer have a "favorite" mode. I usually start out with an open screen, and quickly change if necessary. Why listen to all that junk, if you don't want to?

 

[AngelicStorm]

As Digger and I both said, target disc only applies to audio. Disc doesnt' mask good targets on the CTX like some other machines. Like a lot of others, I started out using Combined/ferous coin with an open screen except for line 35. I have since changed that, I have many "modes" set up using as little or as much disc as I need, dependng on what I'm hunting and where. I no longer have a "favorite" mode. I usually start out with an open screen, and quickly change if necessary. Why listen to all that junk, if you don't want to?

Thanks James. I read another source when I first got the CTX that said the Audio is independent and it could mask the good targets if they were right up against each other. This source explained how Recovery fast helps aid in this not happening and it troubled me for a little bit because I figured since the CTX's Audio is independent it wouldn't be affected by the iron grunts overriding good targets and maybe the CTX would "choose" the less Ferrous targets instead. Honestly, it is a headache having to listen to millions of grunts and trying to decipher anything good amongst the iron. Nonetheless I have ran completely open screen most of the time because of such a risk and lots of times without overbearing grunts and then the times with the grunts.

 

[Digger]

So let me get this right.... If I were to Disc. out Ferrous Line 35 and go over a ton of iron, I would be risking not hearing a target amongst the iron because of nulling? I saw JameM's comment up above about the CTX doesn't mask and have been thinking this entire time that it did mask if there was a lot of disc. used.

The CTX 3030 detects targets, regardless of whether they have been discriminated out or accepted. The only difference between accepting a target value and rejecting a target value is the audio response it makes. A rejected target replaces the Threshold with a "no-tone" (null). An accepted target replaces the Threshold with the frequency of tone assigned to it. In either case, the SmartScreen will provide an image at each target's FE/CO coordinates. Some people would rather hear an audio response from every target, while others prefer to only hear the tones of those set to accept. If you were to measure the amount of time a rejected target is "nulled", compared to the amount of time a tone would be there had the target been accepted, I don't think you could tell the difference. JMHO

 

[AngelicStorm]

The CTX 3030 detects targets, regardless of whether they have been discriminated out or accepted. The only difference between accepting a target value and rejecting a target value is the audio response it makes. A rejected target replaces the Threshold with a "no-tone" (null). An accepted target replaces the Threshold with the frequency of tone assigned to it. In either case, the SmartScreen will provide an image at each target's FE/CO coordinates. Some people would rather hear an audio response from every target, while others prefer to only hear the tones of those set to accept. If you were to measure the amount of time a rejected target is "nulled", compared to the amount of time a tone would be there had the target been accepted, I don't think you could tell the difference. JMHO

Thanks Digger. You cleared this up for me in your last sentence. That is what was troubling me most was the time of a null verses recovery. I had everything else right on the money.

 

[Buried Crap NJ]

There has been some discussion here about the hope that Minelab would add a 5th sound bin in Combine Mode. I would like to suggest, what I think, could possible be a better idea for Combine Mode Sound Bin choices. It would be very cool if MineLab could give the user a slide bar like they use for Volume where you could arrow back and forth between say 2 to 10 for your total number of bin across the conductive spectrum. That would probably be a very easy upgrade to accomplish. I'm just throwing 10 out as an arbitrary number it could be right on up to 50.

If anyone has the ear of a MineLab engineer, please make the suggestion to them.

I get the use of bins and adding your own tones. But the more bins you have the closer you get to the 50 tone program already on the machine. The setting of several lower tones bins and having one bin set up high is like (like) going back to beep and dig. I like that at 50 tones the machine never wafers in tone, each like target is the same tone every time and the 3030 repeats this time and time again. I have been using 50 tone set up for the beach use and have a gone hunting set up with tweeks set up for the beach. I think after using the 50 tone for more than 8 months and hundreds of hours you just start to learn the tones so well. I do use combined for the dirt.
BCNJ

 

[DukeOBass]

Only the first and last frequencies can be adjusted for the 50 tone ID profile in the CTX. The tone frequency range of the CTX is the same as the E-TRAC, so using 75Hz for the lowest and 1200Hz for the highest frequencies should be pretty close. However, one thing the E-TRAC has that the CTX doesn't is a Variability control which depending on how you had this set on your E-TRAC may mean the CTX can't be set up to sound exactly the same as an E-TRAC.

 

[beachdude]

What is the gold tone Frequency on an Excal 2? I was thinking I might try to emulate that on my CTX so when I switch back and forth between machines it won't be too stressful on the brain...

 

[DukeOBass]

If the #1 conductive bin = 75 Hz (a) and the #50 conductive bin= 1200 Hz (b), to calculate the increase from step to step we would subtract 75 from 1200 and then divide this by 49 because we are measuring each end point along the sound spectrum. Formula is b-a over n. The quotient derived for each change in step is 22.95918367. Taking it out to at least 8 places will insure the best accuracy in this case. You would have figure out where gold falls (ie 12/36) and then calculate how many Hz would represent step 36 on the sound spectrum by adding 22.95918367 to 75 to get the vale for bin 2 and then add 22.95918367 to that total to get the value of bin 3, etc. all the way up to step 36. If you know calculus there is a formula but it's difficult to express it in a text. Delta x = the change in Hz between steps. It's expressed x sub 36 = a + (36 times delta x). In general, if gold lies on step i, the formula for calculating any step where gold would sound would be x sub i = a + (i times delta x).

 

[beachdude]

If the #1 conductive bin = 75 Hz (a) and the #50 conductive bin= 1200 Hz (b), to calculate the increase from step to step we would subtract 75 from 1200 and then divide this by 49 because we are measuring each end point along the sound spectrum. Formula is b-a over n. The quotient derived for each change in step is 22.95918367. Taking it out to at least 8 places will insure the best accuracy in this case. You would have figure out where gold falls (ie 12/36) and then calculate how many Hz would represent step 36 on the sound spectrum by adding 22.95918367 to 75 to get the vale for bin 2 and then add 22.95918367 to that total to get the value of bin 3, etc. all the way up to step 36. If you know calculus there is a formula but it's difficult to express it in a text. Delta x = the change in Hz between steps. It's expressed x sub 36 = a + (36 times delta x). In general, if gold lies on step i, the formula for calculating any step where gold would sound would be x sub i = a + (i times delta x).

Dude!

 

[DukeOBass]

I don't know. You could probably try the piece under an Etrac to figure out the reading. If it doesn't sound the same as the Excal, try scan various other objects under you hear a similar tone. Then you will have you conductive number to use the formula with or try playing tones on your CTX 3030 to try to get as close as possible.