Software Glitch??

[Daniel Tn]

There was a thread a few days ago about the trouble with falsing a guy had while using his 6x10 DD coil. I responded to it saying I had experienced the same phenomenon with my VX3. Well what the machine is doing, is acting like there is a bad source of EMI. It don't matter what frequency or gain setting...I had to abandon the site I was hunting. Well since then I have been playing with various settings and I noticed it was doing this erratic falsing thing at my house outside. I have a few things in my test garden and when the machine is doing this, of is so noisy that you can only pick out the extremely shallow targets. The batteries were full...I changed to all three of my V rated coils and it did it with all of them. I had the machine in the Coin/Jewelry program and for some reason never had thought to try another program. I figured with the VX3s cut back setting options, that they were all the same except for the icons.

Well I hopped to the Hi Pro mode to see if I could pick up a silver dime in ground at 7". In coin/jewelry I wasn't able to hear it through the noise. In 3 freq mode it wouldn't beep at all but the signal bars were showing up in the green and it was giving good vdi numbers but the only audio I could hear were the threshold and those crazy erratic beeps that were all over the scale.

When I went to Hi Pro, it was instantly smooth. No jittery audio in pinpoint mode...no flashing vdi numbers...just a steady smooth threshold. Then I go over the dime...clear audio from the dime although my dirt made it read +90-+93. Now this puzzled me. I went through the settings to see if I could find differences between what I had in coin/jewelry and hi pro. The main thing was hi pro had a higher gain setting and tone id was on. So I go back to coin/jewelry and there is the erratic behavior again. I done a factory reset to coin/jewelry and BAM...now I get audio from the dime and the machine isn't erratic. What in the world would cause it to do like that? Maybe a small glitch? I know I gotta go back and rehunt some places now cause coin/jewelry was all I've been using and I was only able to dig shallow targets that I could get to repeat amongst the erratic false beeps. I have really bad ground here...was only able to get the silver dime with the D2 coil....the 5.3 and 4x6 DD would read it way down into the iron range. My dirt ground phase reading is -92 and this dirt makes detectors read things weird.

 

[Rob (IL)]

People will give all types of opinions but there is no answer because we can't tell what you changed. I take it that what you mean by factory reset is you loaded a new C/J from the library. Is that what you meant? If it is then you changed a setting you shouldn't have.

If you meant you pulled the pack with the power on, that is something different. I've never had to do this since I had a prototype. The V3i is a computer and just like my laptop it needs a restart once in a while. People that don't know all the adjustments don't realize what can be goofed up.

I figured with the VX3s cut back setting options, that they were all the same except for the icons. Well that is wrong. The difference between the V3i and VX3 is the user interface. The electronics is the same. Except the interface which determines what you can access the software is the same.

It doesn't sound like you have a problem. ROB

Check your G/B, 90's is high for a dime.

 

[Rob (IL)]

When I was testing a prototype V3i I made about every change that could be made. I mean sounds, colors, configuration etc. If I made one more change the V would lock, I don't remember what the change was. I would pull the pack and it would work again until the next time. I reloaded the Hi Pro program and I could never get the same exact set of changes. I tried. So just by leaving out one unknown change ??? I could never duplicate the problem. It looks like no one else has ever hit that exact combination either. That's what I was referring to when I said, we don't know what you changed.

So lets hope the problem is gone forever, I'm sure it is. ROB

 

[Daniel Tn]

From the factory preset Coin/Jewelry program I made the following changes....remember with the VX3 you don't have all the cool stuff of a V3, just the basics.

First thing I did was change the recovery delay to 40. Then I turned the threshold down a bit. I turned the All Metal sensitivity up just a few digits...from 55 to 65. RX gain I tried moving up to around 8. I left Disc alone. I turned auto track off and have been manually ground balancing it. Like I said, I have bad iron dirt like the famous Virginia red dirt. Umm lets see, freq I found that 7.5 seemed to have the best all around target response. Three freq works but on my test garden targets, the single freq gives the best signal. And I changed the ground filter to the 12.5 band...the manual said it worked better for bad ground. That's it.

I was referring to doing a program restore...restored it back to factory settings and have since been making changes one at a time trying to duplicate how it was before. Thus far the only way I can get it erratic is to crank the gain way up past 10. I think I am balancing it correct.....pull the pinpoint trigger, find a clean spot...press and hold ENT while still pulling trigger. Pump the coil up and down til the threshold smoothes out and the little arrows go in reverse...then let go of ENT and then release trigger.

I need a better understanding as to what all the data means on the Ground Probe page. I get the idea of the ground phase reading but the Noise value and signal strength data I'm not sure how to interpret. I can hold my coil I'm the air and Zero the setting button and then lower the coil to the ground. I usually get a VDI phase reading of the -88 to low -90s here. Then for the individual frequencies I get a range of + numbers. I just verified a minute ago that they were all three +170.5' well in that ball park.

The Strength values are....8.6%, 7.8%, and 6.8%. This was with RX gain of 9 with D2 coil.

 

[earthmansurfer]

I think I was that guy you are talking about.
I got out tonight and the 6X10 was working pretty good at the same spot. It acted up once and when I pinpointed the air I could detect EMI on the street again. But the zoom+sensitivity didn't show any EMI???????????

I am pretty sure I have a basic idea (at least with me) of what is going on with the machine. I hunt in such heavy iron, I often can't find a good place to ground balance and when I do it's still a hit of miss due to the the machine picking something up. Well, I finally got to see that 0 while GB'ing tonight. When I tried to GB later I think I must have been over some iron as it started it's chattering.

I have had a few metal detectors before and have hunted this spot a fair amount and I have NEVER had such a problem ground balancing and also using pinpoint (even with a good GB). I am not knocking the V3i, but I think I have an idea what it might be. The machine is

 

[Rob (IL)]

The best way to find if there is EMI is to pull the trigger to go to pinpoint and hold the coil in the air. Emi will give a motorboat sound. You can usually turn in a circle and tell the direction it is coming from.Then adjust your frequency offset for the quietest offset. Use the procedure in Carl's shortcuts at the top of the page.

Pinpointing IMHO is not hard with the V3i. What's the problem, and how are you pinpointing? ROB

 

[Daniel Tn]

These phase numbers were taken in my yard. My yard is decent for around here. I have been in places that the ground probe showed Signal % of 30 or higher % with the same general ground VDI as what I have in my yard. But in those places, most everything beyond 5 inches deep will read as iron on a VLF detector. We break out the pulse machines for those areas.

 

[earthmansurfer]

Rob - Why does the sensitivity+zoom show ZERO EMI and pulling the trigger shows a fair amount?

Ground Balance - Even though I know how I have watched the ground balance video a few times just to be sure. I wasn't doing anything different that I could see.I find clean ground by pulling the trigger and searching for it. I double check the ground by just going over it in Discrim also - actually that is often how I start as there is just too much iron, so I just listen for that 5 tone to stop. Once I have what appears to be clean ground I bob the coil so that the coil doesn't hit the ground but comes close (1" or so) and I go up as high as a foot. Lately I've been doing the bob for at least 10 seconds and I watch the arrows. I stop when the arrows start going both ways fairly quickly.

Pinpoint - Off to the side of my target I pull the trigger, enough so that the coil is not over the target. So, if I'm using the 6X10, I'm probably 8" or so from the target. When I try to find a target with pinpoint I'd say about 50% of the time or more I can't get the target as there is iron off to the side - I have verified this by simply checking off the the side when it happens. To give you an idea of the iron, I usually hear iron every swing, non stop a lot of the time. Since I've looked into the pinpoint "issue" I have started searching for iron or trash off to the side of the target. EVERY TIME it is there. I'm pretty sure that is the issue (that and my AM sensitivity used to be too high, like 90, now at 75) - There is just so much iron that when I try to pinpoint I inevitably start the process over iron which is why I think I get a nulling. I see the bars over my found target but they often are not really helpful.

But, regarding the GB level, doesn't it make sense to be able to ask "What was your GB at?" That would help so much in investigating the problems we have. But none of us know because the machine doesn't say. If it falses there is no GB number to help out. Imagine how easy it would be when the V acts up to just check your GB point, but I can't. And the only way to GB it is by bobbing the coil over clean ground. I am in N

 

[Rob (IL)]

So you do have EMI and should compensate for it. The signal% has nothing to do with EMI. The noise% I use to check the reading just above or on the ground. I think you should start looking for EMI with pinpoint. USE the procedure in Carl's shortcuts in the sticky at the top of the page. It is the best way to do it.

OK, pinpointing is fine the detector is not having a problem. Use the lowest All Metal setting that will give you the depth you need. Sometimes in super bad junk I have had to just crisscross the target from from quiet a few angles to get it. This not unique to the V3. We were hunting and my buddy found a target but couldn't pinpoint it. (NOT WITH A WHITES). We played around crisscrossing in discrimination from many angles. Maybe the all metal pinpoint was seeing deeper iron. It turned out to be a deep Barber.

Your suggestion on the ground number is fine. I've never needed it but it doesn't mean others wouldn't. ROB

 

[Rob (IL)]

The signal% doesn't affect performance unless you get overloading while hunting. It goes up as you increase RX. I'd keep it 40% or lower. ROB

 

[Rob (IL)]

This post is all over and has spread out from the original post. The detector problem is gone. For other issues start a new post. It is always better to keep a post on one problem. Post closed