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Simplex and nickles.
- Thread starter stick
- Start date
Sweeping-4-junk
New member
I think that Detector frequency may be the deciding factor. 18 to 20 Khz are 2 favourite frequency for me on nickel based coins. All frequency's find nickels but 18 Khz - 20 Khz like i say does pretty good.
Sweeping-4-junk
New member
Tabs don't have any fixed conductivity that's the problem. I have a box here full of tabs for testing purposes and trust me they have a fairly wide spread of numbers depending on tab shape, size and who made the tab!
I will tell you some thing, i have got to like digging the little tab devils. Now and again i will dig what i expect to be a tab and it will be something better..Coin , maybe a ring (much rarer)..I find that the beaver tail tabs with the beaver tail tab still fixed to the round pull ring are easier to ID as a trash target...That beaver tail gives a sputter sound. The square tabs can imitate good finds to perfection...When i am coin hunting for silver coins and silver rings
some times i will just disc out tabs and recover the good silver..and copper coins...Saves time digging out the tabs..When i am hunting GOLD RINGS i limit my time to 1 hour of tab digging and forget the higher conductors for an hour , then i will switch on the disc and disc out the tabs and go for the higher conductors.. You can never dig everything good on 1 hunt session , impossible... My methods work..
I will tell you some thing, i have got to like digging the little tab devils. Now and again i will dig what i expect to be a tab and it will be something better..Coin , maybe a ring (much rarer)..I find that the beaver tail tabs with the beaver tail tab still fixed to the round pull ring are easier to ID as a trash target...That beaver tail gives a sputter sound. The square tabs can imitate good finds to perfection...When i am coin hunting for silver coins and silver rings
some times i will just disc out tabs and recover the good silver..and copper coins...Saves time digging out the tabs..When i am hunting GOLD RINGS i limit my time to 1 hour of tab digging and forget the higher conductors for an hour , then i will switch on the disc and disc out the tabs and go for the higher conductors.. You can never dig everything good on 1 hunt session , impossible... My methods work..
James/Washington
Active member
There are probably around 30 different types/designs of pull tabs. Some, you have to look closely to tell the difference, others are glaringly different. They ring from a number or two below a nickel to a number or two above a nickel to exactly like a nickel. You can not say that a certain number on the TID is a pull tab at all. Believe me when I say I have studied long and hard trying to figure out a situation that would eliminate me digging pull tabs and I can tell you, there is none! Also, there are many things that can have an effect on the TID number you see, like another piece of junk very near the target to another piece of junk just below or above the target. In other words, you will never know 100% for sure what the target is unless you dig it. The tones and the numbers on the TID are there to help you make a decision if you want to dig or not. I am a coin shooter and I hunt in some very trashy parks. It is my decision to dig nickel signals when the target gives a solid number that varies only 1 to 3 numbers away from 25 on the Simplex+. I dig pull tabs and nickels using this method, but dig more nickels than pull tabs. Now, I have to say that I have only been out with the Simplex+ only 4 times and have around 8 hours of use with it, so I am still learning it. I have been at this hobby since 1971, so I am going to consider myself a seasoned veteran of the hobby. My main detector is a different brand and I have somewhere between 1000 and 1200 hours on it and I hunt the same way with it and I do dig a lot of nickels. So, I think I can answer your question and say you can have a great idea of what is under the coil, but it is still always a guess until you dig it. Happy hunting!.
Yes, I have dug an incredible amount of pull tabs in the 14 years that I have been detecting. But when the at pro shows 52 on the screen, 90 percent of the time it is going to be a nickle. And a 53 is going to be a pull tab 99 percent of the time in the areas that I hunt in southeast texas. I have a friend who has an at pro who gets the same readings.I am thinking about getting a new detector and the simplex is on my list. I was curious to know if people who have been using it was getting those type of results. The amount of pull tabs in the ground around here makes it almost impossible to dig all mid tone targets.
Sweeping-4-junk
New member
I agree that pull tabs are a menace. I guess one day in many years from now there will be higher technology in a metal detector to actually analyse metal better.
I think that 100 % pull tab ID would be a dream come true....You might need to "bombard" the metal under the ground with something other than just a simple electromagnetic field though..
The Screen that shows the exact shape and size would be the first thing and also some clever way to analyse the metal better. I am sure it will come eventually. How long from now is anyone's guess but i would think it possible
in around 30 - 70 years from now at a ball park guess. Many of us will be ash or bones by then though!
I think that 100 % pull tab ID would be a dream come true....You might need to "bombard" the metal under the ground with something other than just a simple electromagnetic field though..
The Screen that shows the exact shape and size would be the first thing and also some clever way to analyse the metal better. I am sure it will come eventually. How long from now is anyone's guess but i would think it possible
in around 30 - 70 years from now at a ball park guess. Many of us will be ash or bones by then though!
Treasurechic
Well-known member
Anybody watch the test YouTube video where the Simplex can't pick up a nickel in between iron nails but picks up anything else out in between the nails? Just wondering if there is a reason why this would happen or if someone could explain why this test is
hairymonsterman
Active member
If it's missing nickels it iron then it will be missing other targets.
Ask yourself why there's no "monte's" nailboard test videos or elevated nail/coin videos, probably because when folk get sucked into the hype and spin that the Simplex should be compared to machines 2 or 3 timex the price and then find it comes up short, the 'warts and all' hard videos take longer to appear.
Ask yourself why there's no "monte's" nailboard test videos or elevated nail/coin videos, probably because when folk get sucked into the hype and spin that the Simplex should be compared to machines 2 or 3 timex the price and then find it comes up short, the 'warts and all' hard videos take longer to appear.
Treasurechic said:
Here is a reply regarding the Simplex[sup][size=medium]+[/size][/sup] and this topic and this is a copy of what I posted Friday morning elsewhere.
Matter of fact, I have watched that video a few times, and a couple of other videos, even just within the last two hours. You know what? I didn't let it bother me. It was one guy doing one test using only a Simplex[sup][size=medium]+[/size][/sup] w/11" DD coil and a Minelab Vanquish w/9X12 DD coil and only comparing 1 US 5¢ between 2 nails.
I am not into doing videos as I don't have the $$$ or the time for a camera and such. If I did, I could have some fun doing a video of "What These Detectors CAN'T Do." and there wouldn't be many detectors that would be left out of that show, either. When I evaluate any make or model, and their standard and optional coils, I am always looking for their strengths and how well they might serve my needs.
But at the same time I am looking for any weaknesses in design, function or performance afield as well. I like to know a detector's strong points but also their weaknesses as well. They all have both.
I noticed in the video you refer to, and a couple of others I have seen, where the video maker slides in a comment about how it is Multi-IQ that is the main difference and why a Minelab model seems to out-perform a single frequency model. They can't answer specific questions about the "Multi-IQ' when asked, and they don't describe why they came to that conclusion, because many I have watched, the results had nothing to do with simultaneous or single frequency detector performance. There's a lot more to it than simply one or more frequencies at work as so much also includes other circuitry design and other function settings, plus the coil design and size used.
By the way, after I watched that video again just a couple of hours ago, I have a US Nickel and two nails on a board here in my den as I am doing tests with other detectors. Why? Just because it is interesting and I learn goods and bads about all the detectors under my roof. Also, in his video where he suggests marvelous performance on that set-up with the Vanquish, note that he didn't sweep the test samples gong lengthwise with the iron nails, only crosswise. I wonder what he'd say if he encountered that from a 90° approach? I did.
Before replying here I had to run each and every detector I own on that test. In the video he said the iron nails were about a "finger distance" between the Nickel and each nail, so I measured that with my right index finger. I used two square nails from the ghost town of 'Lost' and a 1936 Buffalo 5¢. Note, too, that under the board that I layed on my den floor are nails in the flooring that I don't believe he had in that dirt. Also, this test sample and the search coils being swept across that set-up were only 5' to 6' from my computer, and my den, with computer and the lighting, is a bad EMI experience.
I pre-test guessed what the performance might be from each detector model with the coils I keep attached, and I was almost 100% correct in the results I got. And I'll trust my testing over what I saw in the video. Here are the results I got by category:
No Positive Response to the Buffalo Nickel:
• Fisher F44 w/7" Concentric coil ... [size=small](I didn't expect it to. A very good urban Coin Hunting unit, but terrible in iron.)[/size]
A Positive Response to the Buffalo Nickel swept Crosswise as in the Video:
• Nokta FORS CoRe w/'OOR' DD coil ... [size=small](All 2 & 3 Tone modes to Accept Nails. then to Reject nails then at Ferrous Reject.)[/size]
• Nokta / Makro Simplex[sup][size=medium]+[/size][/sup] w/11" DD coil ... [size=small](All three modes w/Zero Disc., Reject 1-Bar (nails), and Reject 3-Bars (ferrous range).)[/size]
• XP ORX w/5X9½ DD HF coil
• XP ORX w/9" X35 DD coil
A Positive Response to the Buffalo Nickel swept BOTH Crosswise as well as Lengthwise:
• Nokta FORS Relic w/5" DD coil ... [size=small](All 2 & 3 Tone modes to Accept Nails. then to Reject Nails then at Ferrous Reject.)[/size]
• Makro Racer 2 w/7" Concentric coil ... [size=small](All 2 & 3 Tone modes to Accept Nails. then to Reject Nails then at Ferrous Reject.)[/size]
• Tesoro Bandido II [size=small]micro[/size]MAX w/6" Concentric coil
• Tesoro Silver Sabre [size=small]micro[/size]MAX w/6" Concentric coil
• White's IDX Pro w/6½" Concentric coil ... [size=small](Unit Modified by Keith Southern)[/size]
Note that I never changed the position of the square nails or Nickel so all comparisons were done one right after the other. Also note that the Nokta CoRe w/'OOR' coil almost gave me good repeatable hits lengthwise, but the slightly ticky response just wasn't solid enough to match the Relic and other models that did well both directions.
Also note that the particular model in question in the video and here, the new Nokta / Makro Simplex[sup][size=medium]+[/size][/sup], was using the largest search coil, the standard 11" DD. It will be interesting to re-test this when Nokta / Makro release smaller-size optional coils for this device. But the audio response I did get from it, in Field, Park and Beach modes, was absolutely a beautiful response.
I had been asked about the Simplex[sup][size=medium]+[/size][/sup] and handling the nails on my Nail Board Performance Test, so I did that again, too. I used a Wheat-Back Cent and, with that big 11" DD coil, it still hit on 6-out-of-8 possible. Using all three Discriminate modes with the Disc. set at Zero Bars t accept all Metals, then at 1-Bar to reject Iron nails, then at 3-Bars which is the Ferrous / Non-Ferrous break-point. I enjoy using my Simplex[sup][size=medium]+[/size][/sup] and, as I''ve stated, it ought to do a lot of things better with smaller coils when they come out.
Monte
Matter of fact, I have watched that video a few times, and a couple of other videos, even just within the last two hours. You know what? I didn't let it bother me. It was one guy doing one test using only a Simplex[sup][size=medium]+[/size][/sup] w/11" DD coil and a Minelab Vanquish w/9X12 DD coil and only comparing 1 US 5¢ between 2 nails.
I am not into doing videos as I don't have the $$$ or the time for a camera and such. If I did, I could have some fun doing a video of "What These Detectors CAN'T Do." and there wouldn't be many detectors that would be left out of that show, either. When I evaluate any make or model, and their standard and optional coils, I am always looking for their strengths and how well they might serve my needs.
But at the same time I am looking for any weaknesses in design, function or performance afield as well. I like to know a detector's strong points but also their weaknesses as well. They all have both.
I noticed in the video you refer to, and a couple of others I have seen, where the video maker slides in a comment about how it is Multi-IQ that is the main difference and why a Minelab model seems to out-perform a single frequency model. They can't answer specific questions about the "Multi-IQ' when asked, and they don't describe why they came to that conclusion, because many I have watched, the results had nothing to do with simultaneous or single frequency detector performance. There's a lot more to it than simply one or more frequencies at work as so much also includes other circuitry design and other function settings, plus the coil design and size used.
By the way, after I watched that video again just a couple of hours ago, I have a US Nickel and two nails on a board here in my den as I am doing tests with other detectors. Why? Just because it is interesting and I learn goods and bads about all the detectors under my roof. Also, in his video where he suggests marvelous performance on that set-up with the Vanquish, note that he didn't sweep the test samples gong lengthwise with the iron nails, only crosswise. I wonder what he'd say if he encountered that from a 90° approach? I did.
Before replying here I had to run each and every detector I own on that test. In the video he said the iron nails were about a "finger distance" between the Nickel and each nail, so I measured that with my right index finger. I used two square nails from the ghost town of 'Lost' and a 1936 Buffalo 5¢. Note, too, that under the board that I layed on my den floor are nails in the flooring that I don't believe he had in that dirt. Also, this test sample and the search coils being swept across that set-up were only 5' to 6' from my computer, and my den, with computer and the lighting, is a bad EMI experience.
I pre-test guessed what the performance might be from each detector model with the coils I keep attached, and I was almost 100% correct in the results I got. And I'll trust my testing over what I saw in the video. Here are the results I got by category:
No Positive Response to the Buffalo Nickel:
• Fisher F44 w/7" Concentric coil ... [size=small](I didn't expect it to. A very good urban Coin Hunting unit, but terrible in iron.)[/size]
A Positive Response to the Buffalo Nickel swept Crosswise as in the Video:
• Nokta FORS CoRe w/'OOR' DD coil ... [size=small](All 2 & 3 Tone modes to Accept Nails. then to Reject nails then at Ferrous Reject.)[/size]
• Nokta / Makro Simplex[sup][size=medium]+[/size][/sup] w/11" DD coil ... [size=small](All three modes w/Zero Disc., Reject 1-Bar (nails), and Reject 3-Bars (ferrous range).)[/size]
• XP ORX w/5X9½ DD HF coil
• XP ORX w/9" X35 DD coil
A Positive Response to the Buffalo Nickel swept BOTH Crosswise as well as Lengthwise:
• Nokta FORS Relic w/5" DD coil ... [size=small](All 2 & 3 Tone modes to Accept Nails. then to Reject Nails then at Ferrous Reject.)[/size]
• Makro Racer 2 w/7" Concentric coil ... [size=small](All 2 & 3 Tone modes to Accept Nails. then to Reject Nails then at Ferrous Reject.)[/size]
• Tesoro Bandido II [size=small]micro[/size]MAX w/6" Concentric coil
• Tesoro Silver Sabre [size=small]micro[/size]MAX w/6" Concentric coil
• White's IDX Pro w/6½" Concentric coil ... [size=small](Unit Modified by Keith Southern)[/size]
Note that I never changed the position of the square nails or Nickel so all comparisons were done one right after the other. Also note that the Nokta CoRe w/'OOR' coil almost gave me good repeatable hits lengthwise, but the slightly ticky response just wasn't solid enough to match the Relic and other models that did well both directions.
Also note that the particular model in question in the video and here, the new Nokta / Makro Simplex[sup][size=medium]+[/size][/sup], was using the largest search coil, the standard 11" DD. It will be interesting to re-test this when Nokta / Makro release smaller-size optional coils for this device. But the audio response I did get from it, in Field, Park and Beach modes, was absolutely a beautiful response.
I had been asked about the Simplex[sup][size=medium]+[/size][/sup] and handling the nails on my Nail Board Performance Test, so I did that again, too. I used a Wheat-Back Cent and, with that big 11" DD coil, it still hit on 6-out-of-8 possible. Using all three Discriminate modes with the Disc. set at Zero Bars t accept all Metals, then at 1-Bar to reject Iron nails, then at 3-Bars which is the Ferrous / Non-Ferrous break-point. I enjoy using my Simplex[sup][size=medium]+[/size][/sup] and, as I''ve stated, it ought to do a lot of things better with smaller coils when they come out.
Monte
the US 5¢ 'nickel' coins will be able to have a different VDI response from any of the Ring-Pull Tabs, or separated 'Tails' and 'Rings' as well as different VDIs for the Rectangular Pry-Tabs.
HOWEVER ... if ANY Tab or Tab part mimics the 5¢ coin's VDI, then NO, they are going to fall in the same numeric range. Also if a 5¢ piece is laying on an angle or on-edge, that can distort the VDI response, just as it can a Tab or Tab-part if it is also on-edge or canted awkwardly. That could make a 5¢ coin read higher or lower and seem more like a different target. Or, the Tab or Tab part also could 'read' like a different target and fall into the 5¢ coin's VDI range.
ANY metal target that duplicates a different target's VDI 'signature' is going to fool us.
From my field time so far with the Simplex[sup][size=medium]+[/size][/sup], although limited due to the season and weather, I have had very good read-outs on all US coin denominations when there is no near-by masking metal object.
Monte
HOWEVER ... if ANY Tab or Tab part mimics the 5¢ coin's VDI, then NO, they are going to fall in the same numeric range. Also if a 5¢ piece is laying on an angle or on-edge, that can distort the VDI response, just as it can a Tab or Tab-part if it is also on-edge or canted awkwardly. That could make a 5¢ coin read higher or lower and seem more like a different target. Or, the Tab or Tab part also could 'read' like a different target and fall into the 5¢ coin's VDI range.
ANY metal target that duplicates a different target's VDI 'signature' is going to fool us.
From my field time so far with the Simplex[sup][size=medium]+[/size][/sup], although limited due to the season and weather, I have had very good read-outs on all US coin denominations when there is no near-by masking metal object.
Monte
Cajundirtdobber
Member
Yes, i seen that this is why im on the fence,now i hear a couple people having trouble.I may sit it out a while before i get one.
and, as always, I learned something new, refreshed my memory of what I've learned in the past, and had some 'fun' all at the same time. A fellow had an older Garrett from the latter '90s and he struggles to find our Nickel coins compared with Copper Pennies and Clad Dimes and Quarters. He'd seen the video in question and asked if I had any detectors that would 'beep on the coin and not the nails?' I told him several, and two or three that would give a great audio response both crossing the nails and coin or sweeping the nail & coin set lengthwise with the nails.
He asked if I was able to put the 5¢ piece under the 1X3 board between the nails and still get a response w/o hearing the nails beep. Again I told him yes, at least two of my detectors will .... and then we learned even more, and that meant I had to explain to him 'Why' they worked.
stick:
Does the simplex identify nickels as good as the at pro?
I own three Garrett's, but none of them are an 'AT' series or really a current offering, so I don' know how the AT Pro responses to our 'Nickel' named coin. It's been 4 to 5 years since I last hunted with a fellow AT Pro, and the park we were hunting didn't show me anything remarkable about the AT Pro's performance on the 5¢ coins there. Like most decent detectors, if the coin was positioned relatively flat-to-the-coil and anywhere in the top 3" or so, the visual read-out was reasonably tight and consistent. But if the coin was canted or close to another metal object, or at 4" or deeper, then the visual response was going to be less reliable and a little jumpy or produced some random read-out in a little broader range and not as tight as the shallower specimens.
This was at a popular-use city park with a nice inlet from a very large river and attracted fishermen [size=small](me at times)[/size] and swimmers and folks with paddle boards, along with all of the picnickers and so-on. I enjoy finding good jewelry and this is a potential parks for that, so I was recovering potential ring signals as well. That meant potential Target ID's, so I dig more trash that I preferred, and in doing so there was naturally a lot of pull-tabs and pull-tab parts and modern rectangular pry-tabs in my recoveries ... as well as nickels. The truth is, it doesn't matter what make or model detector anyone owns, there are going to be times when the discarded trash, especially tabs, will mimic a 5¢ coins response, or maybe th 5¢ Nickel coin is just mimicking the trash.
Treasurechic:
Anybody watch the test YouTube video where the Simplex can't pick up a nickel in between iron nails but picks up anything else out in between the nails? Just wondering if there is a reason why this would happen or if someone could explain why this test is
Yes, I watched that video before the post here, and I replied below and attached a photo of two iron nail Test Samples I used. Not that as in the video, I have two nails [size=small](both old square nails)[/size] and a US Buffalo Nickel placed between them Maybe slightly closer than in his test in the video. Take a look and see how all of the detectors I have or tried performance on that test. By 'all the detectors I have' I am referring to those that are in my Regular-Use Detector Outfit. I have others for seminar use, and they serve their purpose well for that..
My Simplex+ does a very good job in all three of the Disc. modes. I don't use any Discrimination in any of them so I am hearing the response from the Low-Tone audio on the Nails and a higher-pitched tone from the Nickel when swept crosswise just like he did in his video. I also increase the Disc. level in Field and Park mode to reject 1-Bar which handles most nails, and then to reject 3-Bars and that includes targets up to the Ferrous / Non-Ferrous break-point and the Simplex still hit on the Nickel coin.
Can I explain what happed or why? Yes, kind of. What happened in my testing was I used a lot of detectors, compared side-by-side with comparable settings, and I logged exactly what worked and didn't work. What happened was, in the case of my Simplex+ and my test Comparisons ... the Simplex[sup]+[/sup] worked well. Can I explain Why? Yes, because the folks at Nokta / Makro designed this model quite well and the circuitry design functioned as it should, and as it could, with that particular search coil size and type, and with the 2-Naisl and 1-Nickel test samples in a favorable relationship to each other.
Can I explain What happened and Why it happened in the Video that the fellow did? Well, No, not exactly because I wasn't there to witness his detector set-up and operation. And after yesterday, things got better, or at least more interesting.
Cajundirtdobber:
Yes, i seen that this is why im on the fence,now i hear a couple people having trouble.I may sit it out a while before i get one.
I'm enjoying my Simplex+, and I'll enjoy it a lot more and grab it a little more often after accessory coils are introduced for it. Why? I mainly hunt in trashier places and need smaller-size coils. The stock 11" DD, however, is working OK in very open grassy parks and when weather improves I'll use it on some beaches as well.
Trouble? ALL detectors will have an issue from time-to-time, and there's always going to be someone who doesn't like a particular model for personal reasons. But I can tell you I haven't encountered a single functional problem with my Simplex[sup]+[/sup]. And as I mentioned in the earlier reply to this thread with a photo of the Nails and Nickel on the test-board I used, I compared a loot of detectors and reported on their results, and the Simplex[sup]+[/sup] did just fine.
But there's always "more to the story" than usually meets the eye. metal detector design and search coil design are more complex than many thing to try and make them work, and work reasonable well in order to perform the bulk of what they might encounter afield and do it well. I have shown time and time again how some of the Simultaneous Multi-Frequency detectors fall short in performance, and I've done the same with folks using most of the Selectable Frequency makes and models. It depends on the frequency, or frequencies, used, the other settings used, and the search coils size and type that is used. There is no such thing as a 'perfect' metal detector, or coil, and it takes a good matchup of detector and internal circuitry design and search coil to get the best out of them.
I've witnessed many 'tests' that have terrible looking results, but things can change simply by using a different Frequency, or changing the Discrimination setting, or a different circuitry change, and even just swapping to a different search coil size or type. we have some really great detectors available to us today, and some of these 'modern marvels' that I still use had their start over 36 years ago. But even then, and continuing to the very present, as we progressed from detectors we had back in the '70s up to today, there have been some trade-off in performance to make it this far.
As I related in my intro and along the way in this post, I have quite a few regular working units in my Detector Outfit, and I have a few others, former favorites that date way back, that I use in my full-day metal detecting seminars to show attendees what we had in those earlier days. They can see the configurations and the weight and balance, and I show them th difficulty we had to deal with to learn them and use them under challenging conditions. The fellow who had questions said he had a Garrett and asked if I had and used them. Yes, I have four Garrett's, but No, not as a daily detector of choice. They are in my display and demonstrate group for seminars. He has a late '90s Garrett GTA Ultra which is newer than mine. I have a late '60s Garrett Hunter BFO, a '75 or '76 Master Hunter TR-Disc. with DD coils, and from about '81 a Garrett American S2 TR-Disc. that needs a little service. It works briefly, but the auto-tune need service. Also in my seminar group is a straight TR Compass Coin Hustler and a White's 6000 Di Series 3 Hip Mount model.
Before testing his unit, which does have a circuitry issue because in one or two of the Disc. mode he can't reject iron or foil or ??? I didn't check for other glitches, but I did select a mode for him that can reject the iron nails. He asked about how it might handle my Nail Board Performance Test, which is from an actual in-the-field encounter in late May of '94. Then he asked about the two nails and nickel that he saw in a video. He's been interested in a new detector for under $400 to $450 dollars and saw the Simplex[sup]+[/sup] and AT video the fellow did. Before checking out his GTA I told him that I seriously doubted that he could just reject the nails and get a hit on the coin with that model. It was equipped with the elliptical coil.
Not peep on the coin using the Nail Board and nothing on the Buffalo Nickel between the two nails. I then showed him how my detectors handled both tests, and especially the 2-Nil & Nickel test. He was impressed. Then he wondered how they would perform if the nails were close to the coil than the nail, so I put the Buffalo Nickel UNDER the 1X3 board as close as I could eyeball to being directly below the coin circle between the two nails. As I was relocating the Nickel I said that I know I have at least 3 detectors that will not beep on the Nails but will give a good responsive beep on the Nickel.
I knew what was likely to happen and he was surprised when he heard the good hits on the coin and no beep on the nails when I grabbed my Compass Coin Hustler w/6" DD coil, Garrett American w/7½ Coplaner coil, and Master Hunter TR-Disc. w/8 DD coil. All three ignored the iron nails and responded very well to the Nickel from all directions. Then, with the Nickel under the board we checked out all of the 'modern' detectors and along the way I had to try and explain the performance. At this point we were BOTH learning something! I have 3 of my Regular-Use detectors that could ignore the iron nails and give me a positive hit on the Buffalo Nickel that was below them and the board !!!
I tried all my detectors from my den with the search coils mounted, but didn't get into my Accessory Coil Tote to swap any around and try them. So, what in my current detector outfit gave me a good hit on the Nickel that was under the board and two nails? The XP ORX w/9" X35 LF coil and XP ORX w/5X9½ DD HF coil.. I could turn the Iron Volume 'Off' and not hear the nail response and got the Nickel when I swept across the test set-up crosswise on the nails like in the video. Wait a minute .... Didn't I say I had THREE models that hit on the Nickel under the board w/nails? ... Why, yes, I did.
I had checked out the CoRe w/'OOR' DD and Relic w/5" DD, Bandido II µMAX and Silver Sabre µMAX each w/6" Concentric coils, then the modified IDX Pro w/6½" Concentric and then grabbed the Racer 2 w/7" Concentric. I used them with the Disc. to accept iron nails, then bumped the Disc. up to just barely reject those nails. Nothing. I hung the Racer 2 back on my den wall and had only one detector remaining to be tested [size=x-large]→ → → →[/size] my Simplex+ w/11" DD coil.
I have all three Disc. modes accepting all Disc. segments so I only used Field mode. It has the Iron Audio Volume at 1-Bar but hit on the Nickel. Then I increased the Disc. to reject 1-Bar, then 2-Bars, and then at the Ferrous / Non-=Ferrous break-point of rejecting the first 3-Bars. Each time I hit on the Nickel. The search coil wasn't at a lot of height, and might have only been swept with the coil maybe 1" or a bit over the Nails, but it gave a good beep on the Nickel.
Yes, it happened, and I was as surprised as that fellow. Heck, maybe that even nudged him closer to buying a Simplex[sup]+[/sup] !
I'm going to do this test again but outside and away from EMI. Just have to wait for the snow we got during the night to go away and for it to warm up.
The Simplex[sup]+[/sup], by the way, is working well, when I can get out, and is really a 'fun' and versatile detector to use.
Monte
He asked if I was able to put the 5¢ piece under the 1X3 board between the nails and still get a response w/o hearing the nails beep. Again I told him yes, at least two of my detectors will .... and then we learned even more, and that meant I had to explain to him 'Why' they worked.
stick:
Does the simplex identify nickels as good as the at pro?
I own three Garrett's, but none of them are an 'AT' series or really a current offering, so I don' know how the AT Pro responses to our 'Nickel' named coin. It's been 4 to 5 years since I last hunted with a fellow AT Pro, and the park we were hunting didn't show me anything remarkable about the AT Pro's performance on the 5¢ coins there. Like most decent detectors, if the coin was positioned relatively flat-to-the-coil and anywhere in the top 3" or so, the visual read-out was reasonably tight and consistent. But if the coin was canted or close to another metal object, or at 4" or deeper, then the visual response was going to be less reliable and a little jumpy or produced some random read-out in a little broader range and not as tight as the shallower specimens.
This was at a popular-use city park with a nice inlet from a very large river and attracted fishermen [size=small](me at times)[/size] and swimmers and folks with paddle boards, along with all of the picnickers and so-on. I enjoy finding good jewelry and this is a potential parks for that, so I was recovering potential ring signals as well. That meant potential Target ID's, so I dig more trash that I preferred, and in doing so there was naturally a lot of pull-tabs and pull-tab parts and modern rectangular pry-tabs in my recoveries ... as well as nickels. The truth is, it doesn't matter what make or model detector anyone owns, there are going to be times when the discarded trash, especially tabs, will mimic a 5¢ coins response, or maybe th 5¢ Nickel coin is just mimicking the trash.
Treasurechic:
Anybody watch the test YouTube video where the Simplex can't pick up a nickel in between iron nails but picks up anything else out in between the nails? Just wondering if there is a reason why this would happen or if someone could explain why this test is
Yes, I watched that video before the post here, and I replied below and attached a photo of two iron nail Test Samples I used. Not that as in the video, I have two nails [size=small](both old square nails)[/size] and a US Buffalo Nickel placed between them Maybe slightly closer than in his test in the video. Take a look and see how all of the detectors I have or tried performance on that test. By 'all the detectors I have' I am referring to those that are in my Regular-Use Detector Outfit. I have others for seminar use, and they serve their purpose well for that..
My Simplex+ does a very good job in all three of the Disc. modes. I don't use any Discrimination in any of them so I am hearing the response from the Low-Tone audio on the Nails and a higher-pitched tone from the Nickel when swept crosswise just like he did in his video. I also increase the Disc. level in Field and Park mode to reject 1-Bar which handles most nails, and then to reject 3-Bars and that includes targets up to the Ferrous / Non-Ferrous break-point and the Simplex still hit on the Nickel coin.
Can I explain what happed or why? Yes, kind of. What happened in my testing was I used a lot of detectors, compared side-by-side with comparable settings, and I logged exactly what worked and didn't work. What happened was, in the case of my Simplex+ and my test Comparisons ... the Simplex[sup]+[/sup] worked well. Can I explain Why? Yes, because the folks at Nokta / Makro designed this model quite well and the circuitry design functioned as it should, and as it could, with that particular search coil size and type, and with the 2-Naisl and 1-Nickel test samples in a favorable relationship to each other.
Can I explain What happened and Why it happened in the Video that the fellow did? Well, No, not exactly because I wasn't there to witness his detector set-up and operation. And after yesterday, things got better, or at least more interesting.
Cajundirtdobber:
Yes, i seen that this is why im on the fence,now i hear a couple people having trouble.I may sit it out a while before i get one.
I'm enjoying my Simplex+, and I'll enjoy it a lot more and grab it a little more often after accessory coils are introduced for it. Why? I mainly hunt in trashier places and need smaller-size coils. The stock 11" DD, however, is working OK in very open grassy parks and when weather improves I'll use it on some beaches as well.
Trouble? ALL detectors will have an issue from time-to-time, and there's always going to be someone who doesn't like a particular model for personal reasons. But I can tell you I haven't encountered a single functional problem with my Simplex[sup]+[/sup]. And as I mentioned in the earlier reply to this thread with a photo of the Nails and Nickel on the test-board I used, I compared a loot of detectors and reported on their results, and the Simplex[sup]+[/sup] did just fine.
But there's always "more to the story" than usually meets the eye. metal detector design and search coil design are more complex than many thing to try and make them work, and work reasonable well in order to perform the bulk of what they might encounter afield and do it well. I have shown time and time again how some of the Simultaneous Multi-Frequency detectors fall short in performance, and I've done the same with folks using most of the Selectable Frequency makes and models. It depends on the frequency, or frequencies, used, the other settings used, and the search coils size and type that is used. There is no such thing as a 'perfect' metal detector, or coil, and it takes a good matchup of detector and internal circuitry design and search coil to get the best out of them.
I've witnessed many 'tests' that have terrible looking results, but things can change simply by using a different Frequency, or changing the Discrimination setting, or a different circuitry change, and even just swapping to a different search coil size or type. we have some really great detectors available to us today, and some of these 'modern marvels' that I still use had their start over 36 years ago. But even then, and continuing to the very present, as we progressed from detectors we had back in the '70s up to today, there have been some trade-off in performance to make it this far.
As I related in my intro and along the way in this post, I have quite a few regular working units in my Detector Outfit, and I have a few others, former favorites that date way back, that I use in my full-day metal detecting seminars to show attendees what we had in those earlier days. They can see the configurations and the weight and balance, and I show them th difficulty we had to deal with to learn them and use them under challenging conditions. The fellow who had questions said he had a Garrett and asked if I had and used them. Yes, I have four Garrett's, but No, not as a daily detector of choice. They are in my display and demonstrate group for seminars. He has a late '90s Garrett GTA Ultra which is newer than mine. I have a late '60s Garrett Hunter BFO, a '75 or '76 Master Hunter TR-Disc. with DD coils, and from about '81 a Garrett American S2 TR-Disc. that needs a little service. It works briefly, but the auto-tune need service. Also in my seminar group is a straight TR Compass Coin Hustler and a White's 6000 Di Series 3 Hip Mount model.
Before testing his unit, which does have a circuitry issue because in one or two of the Disc. mode he can't reject iron or foil or ??? I didn't check for other glitches, but I did select a mode for him that can reject the iron nails. He asked about how it might handle my Nail Board Performance Test, which is from an actual in-the-field encounter in late May of '94. Then he asked about the two nails and nickel that he saw in a video. He's been interested in a new detector for under $400 to $450 dollars and saw the Simplex[sup]+[/sup] and AT video the fellow did. Before checking out his GTA I told him that I seriously doubted that he could just reject the nails and get a hit on the coin with that model. It was equipped with the elliptical coil.
Not peep on the coin using the Nail Board and nothing on the Buffalo Nickel between the two nails. I then showed him how my detectors handled both tests, and especially the 2-Nil & Nickel test. He was impressed. Then he wondered how they would perform if the nails were close to the coil than the nail, so I put the Buffalo Nickel UNDER the 1X3 board as close as I could eyeball to being directly below the coin circle between the two nails. As I was relocating the Nickel I said that I know I have at least 3 detectors that will not beep on the Nails but will give a good responsive beep on the Nickel.
I knew what was likely to happen and he was surprised when he heard the good hits on the coin and no beep on the nails when I grabbed my Compass Coin Hustler w/6" DD coil, Garrett American w/7½ Coplaner coil, and Master Hunter TR-Disc. w/8 DD coil. All three ignored the iron nails and responded very well to the Nickel from all directions. Then, with the Nickel under the board we checked out all of the 'modern' detectors and along the way I had to try and explain the performance. At this point we were BOTH learning something! I have 3 of my Regular-Use detectors that could ignore the iron nails and give me a positive hit on the Buffalo Nickel that was below them and the board !!!
I tried all my detectors from my den with the search coils mounted, but didn't get into my Accessory Coil Tote to swap any around and try them. So, what in my current detector outfit gave me a good hit on the Nickel that was under the board and two nails? The XP ORX w/9" X35 LF coil and XP ORX w/5X9½ DD HF coil.. I could turn the Iron Volume 'Off' and not hear the nail response and got the Nickel when I swept across the test set-up crosswise on the nails like in the video. Wait a minute .... Didn't I say I had THREE models that hit on the Nickel under the board w/nails? ... Why, yes, I did.
I had checked out the CoRe w/'OOR' DD and Relic w/5" DD, Bandido II µMAX and Silver Sabre µMAX each w/6" Concentric coils, then the modified IDX Pro w/6½" Concentric and then grabbed the Racer 2 w/7" Concentric. I used them with the Disc. to accept iron nails, then bumped the Disc. up to just barely reject those nails. Nothing. I hung the Racer 2 back on my den wall and had only one detector remaining to be tested [size=x-large]→ → → →[/size] my Simplex+ w/11" DD coil.
I have all three Disc. modes accepting all Disc. segments so I only used Field mode. It has the Iron Audio Volume at 1-Bar but hit on the Nickel. Then I increased the Disc. to reject 1-Bar, then 2-Bars, and then at the Ferrous / Non-=Ferrous break-point of rejecting the first 3-Bars. Each time I hit on the Nickel. The search coil wasn't at a lot of height, and might have only been swept with the coil maybe 1" or a bit over the Nails, but it gave a good beep on the Nickel.
Yes, it happened, and I was as surprised as that fellow. Heck, maybe that even nudged him closer to buying a Simplex[sup]+[/sup] !
I'm going to do this test again but outside and away from EMI. Just have to wait for the snow we got during the night to go away and for it to warm up.
The Simplex[sup]+[/sup], by the way, is working well, when I can get out, and is really a 'fun' and versatile detector to use.
Monte
hairymonsterman
Active member
Try this one, a nail at 2" and one at 3" above the Nickel.
skypics234
New member
Don't know where to insert this. Can find new topic.
I have had my Simplex for a couple weeks now and just now broke off the top shaft clamp. Broke off very easily.
I found that the clamp can be removed from the shaft so I've taken photos and have sent a request for replacement from Nokta.
I will be curious to see the response.
John M
I have had my Simplex for a couple weeks now and just now broke off the top shaft clamp. Broke off very easily.
I found that the clamp can be removed from the shaft so I've taken photos and have sent a request for replacement from Nokta.
I will be curious to see the response.
John M
While the Simplex is not my main detector, I like and enjoy playing with it. I have both the Simplex and A T Pro, and to answer your question, stick, the Simplex does not do a good job on nickels in comparison, for me anyway.. It does, though, on all other coins. HH jim tn