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silver umax, vaquero
- Thread starter idig3
- Start date
IF....you want to believe this graph, the Ace 250 is as deep as the GTI2500.
Depth Chart
I have heard people say the Fisher 1266 is as deep as the CZ's. It's not always about price or bells and whistles. Some just give more information.
I have always thought, the more you spend on a detector, the less trash you would dig. I've been wrong on that also.
Dan
Depth Chart
I have heard people say the Fisher 1266 is as deep as the CZ's. It's not always about price or bells and whistles. Some just give more information.
I have always thought, the more you spend on a detector, the less trash you would dig. I've been wrong on that also.
Dan
The Silver Sabre umax is a dandy. I know one guy who devotes all his time to CW and RW relics. He has an awesome collection of buttons and old coins. His detector of choice? You guessed it, a SSumax (I know; I sold it to him!)
As deep as the Vaquero? Probably not. As deep as you might want for 90% of all the hunting youll do? Definitely.
I wrote the following about the Silver Sabres in general - it applies to the SS umax, too.
Tesoro Silver Sabre II
My very first detector was a SS II and it was a goodie. These units still are excellent. The only one I like better is the SS uMax (or the Bandido, or the Eldorado.... okay, any uMax format!)
Here are some tips that will help you with your SSII. I wrote them for the uMax series, but they directly apply to the SSII, as well:
1. Keep the SENS down. These units are deep enough for 80% or more of your hunting and will sound off cleanly over good targets - and will get squirrely over trash if you drive them too hard. They are hotter than you think. I remember when I got my first one. My reaction was exactly that - "Man, this thing is HOT!" Compared to the SS II, it felt unrestrained. It took me awhile to get used to that and relaize that I didn't need it as high as I thought I did. You'll find 7-9 is adequate for most uses.
2. Save the upper limit SENS Boost for cleaner areas, areas you've previously worked over for surface targets or really punching through the soil. But beware.
3. Dont bother with the pinpoint mode. All you need is to slow down and pinpoint in the DISC mode, as it works quite well at pinpoint speed. Just keep it moving slow and smooth over your target as you criss cross it during PP'ing. When they say "slow-motion VLF" at Tesoro, they mean it. This saves time and is another benefit of using a Tesoro. See #7, below
4. The DISC is razor edged, as are all Tesoros and with a little usage, you will learn where things ID at.
Practice this with a nickle, a square and ring pull tab, and a zinc cent. When you learn where your machine cuts out on each of these, mark the spot on the DISC dial. Now you have a reasonable TID detector! This is the way I learned before I had my first TID unit and this ensured I dug more, instead of peering at some silly screen.
5. For general hunting, set your DISC at a bit below nickel. Test this on foil bits and balls. For relics go lower to iron or even all metal. It is very good at overlooking small iron bits up to bottlecaps.
6. However it will signal on large iron, and seems to love steel washers. But it gives a scraggy, chop-edge sound, not at all like good targets - which always sound smooth. With practice, you'll get it.
7. Slow down to "process" signals as you pinpoint sweep over them in DISC. We're not talking a hover or crawl here, mind you. It's going to be about half to a third of normal hunt speed.
Trash will come through with choppy edged sounds as mentioned above and the DISC, when thumbed up as you do this, will let you know what the target ID range is. When done as a sequence, it is very "flowing," and improves your efficiency.
8. You will find the the SS is tonally subtle, with a lot of nuance to the tone - but, you have to slow over targets and "process" them as told above to learn what it is telling you. All long-time Tesoro users understand this and do it instinctively, but it can be lost on a newcomer if no-one tells them.
9. Finally, you have the ability to "SuperTune" the detector. I first learned of this in an article by Bob Sickler, some years ago. Here's how to do it:
Set the threshold at the usual low hum, per the instructions. Once you've done that and have established the normal "hum", crank it up into the higher ranges, all the way to max if you want, and then switch back into DISC mode.
Once "SuperTuned" this way, if you get over a really deep target, the detector will overcome the DISC lower signal-strength limit and signal on that deep target.
Of course this will kill the ability to pinpoint, or even use the AM feature, so it's not right for all situations. And it may blast you on shallow targets, so it isnt needed all the time. But when you are in clean areas with the potential for deep targets, as in farmfield relic hunting or in the dry sand at the beach (this is an OPTIMUM place for it), it can be a help. Also, if you arent sure about an "iffy" target, which might be deep, you can go into this mode and check it out. Cool, huh?!
And here is my final tip to you...
- Buy the best, long trowel you can afford and make it your goal to wear it out.
The Silver Sabre umax is great. You will find lots of stuff if you use it well and you have a simple, rugged detector at not a lot of money. It is all day light and it runs on one 9V battery. As if that wasnt enough, Tesoro will repair it free under their detector's Lifetime Warranty, should it need some TLC.
Happy Hunting,
David
As deep as the Vaquero? Probably not. As deep as you might want for 90% of all the hunting youll do? Definitely.
I wrote the following about the Silver Sabres in general - it applies to the SS umax, too.
Tesoro Silver Sabre II
My very first detector was a SS II and it was a goodie. These units still are excellent. The only one I like better is the SS uMax (or the Bandido, or the Eldorado.... okay, any uMax format!)
Here are some tips that will help you with your SSII. I wrote them for the uMax series, but they directly apply to the SSII, as well:
1. Keep the SENS down. These units are deep enough for 80% or more of your hunting and will sound off cleanly over good targets - and will get squirrely over trash if you drive them too hard. They are hotter than you think. I remember when I got my first one. My reaction was exactly that - "Man, this thing is HOT!" Compared to the SS II, it felt unrestrained. It took me awhile to get used to that and relaize that I didn't need it as high as I thought I did. You'll find 7-9 is adequate for most uses.
2. Save the upper limit SENS Boost for cleaner areas, areas you've previously worked over for surface targets or really punching through the soil. But beware.
3. Dont bother with the pinpoint mode. All you need is to slow down and pinpoint in the DISC mode, as it works quite well at pinpoint speed. Just keep it moving slow and smooth over your target as you criss cross it during PP'ing. When they say "slow-motion VLF" at Tesoro, they mean it. This saves time and is another benefit of using a Tesoro. See #7, below
4. The DISC is razor edged, as are all Tesoros and with a little usage, you will learn where things ID at.
Practice this with a nickle, a square and ring pull tab, and a zinc cent. When you learn where your machine cuts out on each of these, mark the spot on the DISC dial. Now you have a reasonable TID detector! This is the way I learned before I had my first TID unit and this ensured I dug more, instead of peering at some silly screen.
5. For general hunting, set your DISC at a bit below nickel. Test this on foil bits and balls. For relics go lower to iron or even all metal. It is very good at overlooking small iron bits up to bottlecaps.
6. However it will signal on large iron, and seems to love steel washers. But it gives a scraggy, chop-edge sound, not at all like good targets - which always sound smooth. With practice, you'll get it.
7. Slow down to "process" signals as you pinpoint sweep over them in DISC. We're not talking a hover or crawl here, mind you. It's going to be about half to a third of normal hunt speed.
Trash will come through with choppy edged sounds as mentioned above and the DISC, when thumbed up as you do this, will let you know what the target ID range is. When done as a sequence, it is very "flowing," and improves your efficiency.
8. You will find the the SS is tonally subtle, with a lot of nuance to the tone - but, you have to slow over targets and "process" them as told above to learn what it is telling you. All long-time Tesoro users understand this and do it instinctively, but it can be lost on a newcomer if no-one tells them.
9. Finally, you have the ability to "SuperTune" the detector. I first learned of this in an article by Bob Sickler, some years ago. Here's how to do it:
Set the threshold at the usual low hum, per the instructions. Once you've done that and have established the normal "hum", crank it up into the higher ranges, all the way to max if you want, and then switch back into DISC mode.
Once "SuperTuned" this way, if you get over a really deep target, the detector will overcome the DISC lower signal-strength limit and signal on that deep target.
Of course this will kill the ability to pinpoint, or even use the AM feature, so it's not right for all situations. And it may blast you on shallow targets, so it isnt needed all the time. But when you are in clean areas with the potential for deep targets, as in farmfield relic hunting or in the dry sand at the beach (this is an OPTIMUM place for it), it can be a help. Also, if you arent sure about an "iffy" target, which might be deep, you can go into this mode and check it out. Cool, huh?!
And here is my final tip to you...
- Buy the best, long trowel you can afford and make it your goal to wear it out.
The Silver Sabre umax is great. You will find lots of stuff if you use it well and you have a simple, rugged detector at not a lot of money. It is all day light and it runs on one 9V battery. As if that wasnt enough, Tesoro will repair it free under their detector's Lifetime Warranty, should it need some TLC.
Happy Hunting,
David
It's always better to have the option to ground balance. But how much deeper it is over preset is highly debated and good friends have almost come to blows over this one.
I personally don't see GB as deeper but I look at it as better sight. The detector can better see targets when ground minerals have been tuned out.
Ground minerals keep detectors from being able to make a good positive ID on buried targets. Tuning out the effects of these minerals means targets otherwise missed will be found.
How the Silver compares to the other models is also debated. I guess one only knows for sure by using one. Then if you find it deeper than another model no one will really believe you until they see it for themselves.
Myron
Badger
I personally don't see GB as deeper but I look at it as better sight. The detector can better see targets when ground minerals have been tuned out.
Ground minerals keep detectors from being able to make a good positive ID on buried targets. Tuning out the effects of these minerals means targets otherwise missed will be found.
How the Silver compares to the other models is also debated. I guess one only knows for sure by using one. Then if you find it deeper than another model no one will really believe you until they see it for themselves.
Myron
Badger
i tried the silvermax on airtest and it wasnt as good as the cib. or vaq..I tried it with the 8" donut though.On the test they tried the silver with the 8x9 web.
the silver works on 10khz and the vaquero 15khz.so in concept the silver not as hot on small items as the vaq.
i dont know!!!!
why cant the tesoro make a test in ground with their own units with everykind of coil????So we shouldnt have to wondering!
the silver works on 10khz and the vaquero 15khz.so in concept the silver not as hot on small items as the vaq.
i dont know!!!!
why cant the tesoro make a test in ground with their own units with everykind of coil????So we shouldnt have to wondering!
It IS true that the GB is a preset fuction on the Silvers. I admit to being spoiled because I live in S carolina. Most of the ground here is devoid of any major mineral effects.
That's not to say that a GB wont make a difference, but I suspect that this whole GB business is overdone. Ive used both and I stick by the 80% rule:
For most hunting you will do with a detector, it's niot needed.
There are times and places where ANY feature will prove it's worth. But, for general use and whole lot of easy-goin fun, the Silver Sabre uMax is hard to beat.
That's not to say that a GB wont make a difference, but I suspect that this whole GB business is overdone. Ive used both and I stick by the 80% rule:
For most hunting you will do with a detector, it's niot needed.
There are times and places where ANY feature will prove it's worth. But, for general use and whole lot of easy-goin fun, the Silver Sabre uMax is hard to beat.
Quite true, idig3. If your detector is at the top, you want to believe it. If your detector is at the bottom, the chart sucks.
I have been reading articles that say that "air tests" are crap and should not be believed over what the depth is in the ground. Others say if it air tests good, it will do better in the ground. I'm starting to believe that all detectors get the same depth at 6" (on coins), since that is what my Deleon seems to be at a stable ID. Same with the Ace 250, CXIII, etc.
I think that GB(mineral discrimination)is no big deal. But people believe it is and that is why manufacturer's don't put out test results. They usually get a few dealers to "field test" a unit then take the best review and post it on their website.
There are as many posts of people saying "my Cibola found things my buddy's Explorer didn't detect" as well as other people saying quite the opposite. There seems to be this ever loving quest to have the deepest detector and some people trade units once a month to achieve this bitter end. Whats more impressing is people like Leslie in Nova Scotia finding coins everywhere, and at different depths, with his old detector while everyone else is too busy trying to find the deepest detector.
In the end, it's how you feel about your unit and how it works for you. There are Bounty Hunter people who will put their Land Rangers up against most detectors and have the finds to prove it. Don't get caught in the "grass is always greener" syndrome. You may find that after 100 times out with a Cibola, it's all the detector you will need, or can handle. Find all the many treasures at 6" and let someone else spend all the time for the few 8" ones that you passed by. He will spend a lot more money and time to find a few things while you (like Leslie)find the many.
Just an opinion.
Dan
I have been reading articles that say that "air tests" are crap and should not be believed over what the depth is in the ground. Others say if it air tests good, it will do better in the ground. I'm starting to believe that all detectors get the same depth at 6" (on coins), since that is what my Deleon seems to be at a stable ID. Same with the Ace 250, CXIII, etc.
I think that GB(mineral discrimination)is no big deal. But people believe it is and that is why manufacturer's don't put out test results. They usually get a few dealers to "field test" a unit then take the best review and post it on their website.
There are as many posts of people saying "my Cibola found things my buddy's Explorer didn't detect" as well as other people saying quite the opposite. There seems to be this ever loving quest to have the deepest detector and some people trade units once a month to achieve this bitter end. Whats more impressing is people like Leslie in Nova Scotia finding coins everywhere, and at different depths, with his old detector while everyone else is too busy trying to find the deepest detector.
In the end, it's how you feel about your unit and how it works for you. There are Bounty Hunter people who will put their Land Rangers up against most detectors and have the finds to prove it. Don't get caught in the "grass is always greener" syndrome. You may find that after 100 times out with a Cibola, it's all the detector you will need, or can handle. Find all the many treasures at 6" and let someone else spend all the time for the few 8" ones that you passed by. He will spend a lot more money and time to find a few things while you (like Leslie)find the many.
Just an opinion.
Dan
A good point about Les up in the Land of the Bluenose (Nova Scotia). I myself have poked more than a few of Les's ribs at his old Garrett Freedom detector. Not only is it a Garrett (gasp!) but it's ooooooolld (God forbid!).
Whats important here is that you know the performance of the instrument and you take it where there is something worth finding. Les does both - he takes it to the right places and he knows how the old Garrett works inside and out. I suspect he sleeps with it on occasion.
He adds something else that is often lost in the Battle of the Detectors. He is persistent. He tasks himself with meeting a 50 coin quota each and every time he sets out. Thus he hits all sorts of places, from old fields to the local ball park. He doesnt turn his nose up at any certain type of searching, either - he does it all. With a cranky old Garrett - the only land unit he owns. And he does it very well.
Do you need GB? Maybe, likely not. Is the Silver Sabre uMax a good detector. Assuredly, especially in skilled hands. Can you get over the mentality of "this detector is better than that detector" long enough to actually use one with skilled artifice? I dunno - you have to answer that question.
Whats important here is that you know the performance of the instrument and you take it where there is something worth finding. Les does both - he takes it to the right places and he knows how the old Garrett works inside and out. I suspect he sleeps with it on occasion.
He adds something else that is often lost in the Battle of the Detectors. He is persistent. He tasks himself with meeting a 50 coin quota each and every time he sets out. Thus he hits all sorts of places, from old fields to the local ball park. He doesnt turn his nose up at any certain type of searching, either - he does it all. With a cranky old Garrett - the only land unit he owns. And he does it very well.
Do you need GB? Maybe, likely not. Is the Silver Sabre uMax a good detector. Assuredly, especially in skilled hands. Can you get over the mentality of "this detector is better than that detector" long enough to actually use one with skilled artifice? I dunno - you have to answer that question.
idig3 said:
If my unit goes 6", should I worry about whats at 8"? 10"? 16"?
My frame of mind is to find what I can, not worry about what I can't.
I read once that 90% of all treasure is at 8" or less. I guess it comes down to if you want to go after that 10% thats deep. Even many of the hundreds of year old coins in England are found at 6" or less.
That would work providing that the ground in every area of the world was the same as the ground they used for testing which it isn't. Sometime the difference is slight, sometimes not. You may live in an area where it is passable to get a good response on say a dime at eight inches, someone else may have soil conditions that prevent getting any signal beyond five inches. If Tesoro would do the testing and state eight inches on a buried dime with a given model and someone happened to live in an the area where five inches was max, guess what? Tesoro would, in all likelihood, have a disgruntled customer. And that customer would be returning the detector for service when in reality the detector was operating properly. Perhaps we spend way too much of our time worrying about slight differences in depth when that time would be best spent learning the how to get the most out of our particular detector.
Much does have to do with ground minerals - it has been the bane of designers since the beginning. Honestly, we have it GOOD in this respect nowadays. But, it is still up to you to educate yourself about them, their effects and whether you NEED the offset of a manual GB. Many of todays designs have automated the GB function so you dont have to worry over it at all - and those units still do only as well as they do, depending on WHERE they are used. Take them to the WalMart parking lot and see what I mean.
I can say that Tesoro puts their units through rigorous testing regimes, and they do an excellent job of getting the balance right. They work hard to bring a quality product to the marketplace.
I spoke with Jack Gifford years ago about this whole GB thing, back when he was still at the helm of Tesoro and took the time to talk with Tesoro users. He told me they had a large sampling of soils of every kind and they tested extensively in the field in order to achive that balance.
He asked me where I lived and would most likely be using a detector. He listened and then suggested I get a NON-GB, preset unit, even though it cost less. He went on to tell me about the many types of soils I could possibly encounter, what sorts of soils I had here where I lived and where I might run into the need for a unit with adjustable GB. He knew what he was talking about, of that I have little doubt. Rest assured, they do the BEST they can at Tesoro.
If it helps, know that it goes way beyond simple GB'ing, so be careful of making that your main crusade. We really are talking about an overlapping of several factors here:
1. Earth Science, such as Geology, which is a major influence.
2. Human Intervention, ie, human activity, earth moving, landscaping, construction, etc. This is perhaps the MOST influential of the three.
3. Electrophysics, which is the technological bridge between these things.
Imagine each as a separate circle unto itself and where they overlap is where the detectorist, YOU, are standing. Move one or another of the circles to favor it over another and something has to give elsewhere.
GB helps with this when the Geology circle shifts. Me, I like having the option available... but I've operated preset units, automated models and those and with manual GB enough to know that it is hardly the final factor.
My frame of mind is to find what I can, not worry about what I can't. I read once that 90% of all treasure is at 8" or less. I guess it comes down to if you want to go after that 10% thats deep.
It's all a matter of compulsion and perspective, in the end. I like your outlook best. After all, when you are dead, none of your accumulated "stuff" will matter - except to those left behind you who must deal with it.
I can say that Tesoro puts their units through rigorous testing regimes, and they do an excellent job of getting the balance right. They work hard to bring a quality product to the marketplace.
I spoke with Jack Gifford years ago about this whole GB thing, back when he was still at the helm of Tesoro and took the time to talk with Tesoro users. He told me they had a large sampling of soils of every kind and they tested extensively in the field in order to achive that balance.
He asked me where I lived and would most likely be using a detector. He listened and then suggested I get a NON-GB, preset unit, even though it cost less. He went on to tell me about the many types of soils I could possibly encounter, what sorts of soils I had here where I lived and where I might run into the need for a unit with adjustable GB. He knew what he was talking about, of that I have little doubt. Rest assured, they do the BEST they can at Tesoro.
If it helps, know that it goes way beyond simple GB'ing, so be careful of making that your main crusade. We really are talking about an overlapping of several factors here:
1. Earth Science, such as Geology, which is a major influence.
2. Human Intervention, ie, human activity, earth moving, landscaping, construction, etc. This is perhaps the MOST influential of the three.
3. Electrophysics, which is the technological bridge between these things.
Imagine each as a separate circle unto itself and where they overlap is where the detectorist, YOU, are standing. Move one or another of the circles to favor it over another and something has to give elsewhere.
GB helps with this when the Geology circle shifts. Me, I like having the option available... but I've operated preset units, automated models and those and with manual GB enough to know that it is hardly the final factor.
My frame of mind is to find what I can, not worry about what I can't. I read once that 90% of all treasure is at 8" or less. I guess it comes down to if you want to go after that 10% thats deep.
It's all a matter of compulsion and perspective, in the end. I like your outlook best. After all, when you are dead, none of your accumulated "stuff" will matter - except to those left behind you who must deal with it.