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Silver Sabre & uMax Questions --- "hot" Machines?
- Thread starter Michigan Badger
- Start date
Badger,
I have probably seen the links you're referring to.
So I guess the sum is that some older detectors may have had some better features than some newer models but depth-wise the newer models are usually better (Am I close?)... If you are referring to the Silver Sabre series of four models, or the Bandido series of four models, then it is basically correct that the earlier models did operate a little quieter in iron trash than the last of that series, and it's also generally correct that the last of each series does have a little better depth of detection.
Note the use of the terms "generally" and "little" which I made sure to insert because some things are relative to an individual's choice of search coils, their sweep speed, the discrimination and sensitivity settings, and the ground environment they hunt.
You probably know that in the U.K. there's like this "cult" following for the original Silver Sabre (1983). In fact there's even a modification shop over there that modifies the original Sabre for the old timers who still favor this model.... Yes, and I get E-mail through the years from detectorists over there who discuss with me the "tests" or "comparisons" they do between makes and models.
A few like the 'original' Silver Sabre and Silver Sabre Plus, but usually I hear from them that it is because they don't like iron. Both these models have a lot of rejection at the minimum setting. Also, I was surprised how many don't use headphones, and the earlier two models had a larger (louder) speaker.
I heard more favorable reports from those who chose the Silver Sabre II because when hunting with headphones in iron trashed areas they liked the lower discriminate setting which eliminated some of the masking issues.
The two more popular from my discussions have been the Silver Sabre II and the final Silver Sabre
I have probably seen the links you're referring to.
So I guess the sum is that some older detectors may have had some better features than some newer models but depth-wise the newer models are usually better (Am I close?)... If you are referring to the Silver Sabre series of four models, or the Bandido series of four models, then it is basically correct that the earlier models did operate a little quieter in iron trash than the last of that series, and it's also generally correct that the last of each series does have a little better depth of detection.
Note the use of the terms "generally" and "little" which I made sure to insert because some things are relative to an individual's choice of search coils, their sweep speed, the discrimination and sensitivity settings, and the ground environment they hunt.
You probably know that in the U.K. there's like this "cult" following for the original Silver Sabre (1983). In fact there's even a modification shop over there that modifies the original Sabre for the old timers who still favor this model.... Yes, and I get E-mail through the years from detectorists over there who discuss with me the "tests" or "comparisons" they do between makes and models.
A few like the 'original' Silver Sabre and Silver Sabre Plus, but usually I hear from them that it is because they don't like iron. Both these models have a lot of rejection at the minimum setting. Also, I was surprised how many don't use headphones, and the earlier two models had a larger (louder) speaker.
I heard more favorable reports from those who chose the Silver Sabre II because when hunting with headphones in iron trashed areas they liked the lower discriminate setting which eliminated some of the masking issues.
The two more popular from my discussions have been the Silver Sabre II and the final Silver Sabre
Uncle Willy
New member
Hey Monte, good to see you floating around. Haven't bumped into you for a spell I'm with you, way to many forums to bounce to and from. Hope your health hasn't slowed you down to much and you're out there just swinging away.
I have a question. Do you remember which SS model Jack made as a "private label" for Kellyco way back. I owned one ( blue in color with different name ) and it was one of the best detectors I ever owned. When I unpacked it I couls see it was a Tesoro so I called Jack and asked him what the deal was and he explained it was a private label model. Take care of yourself bud.
Bill
I have a question. Do you remember which SS model Jack made as a "private label" for Kellyco way back. I owned one ( blue in color with different name ) and it was one of the best detectors I ever owned. When I unpacked it I couls see it was a Tesoro so I called Jack and asked him what the deal was and he explained it was a private label model. Take care of yourself bud.
Bill
Uncle Willy
New member
AS I recall it was a bit noisy also. 
Bill
Bill
known for their "snap, crackle, pop" over iron trash. The 1260-X set a standard for easy-to-use models with an 'S' rod configuration and slow motion detection, and the Tesoro Inca, released the following year, put them in their place when it came to good SILENT-search motion discrimination in iron infested sites.
The newer models, such as the Tej
The newer models, such as the Tej
models around much anymore, either. A friend still has the Pillar 4 Reale I sold him when I was distributing them. Essentially an interesting physical and color approach to the 'original' Eldorado ... but over-priced as most "private label" offering are.
I have nothing against Kellyco, and they can be a good dealership, from a business standpoint, to do business with AS LONG AS YOU'RE WELL ESTABLISHED to the point where you don't need to sell through them.
Like Teknetics, Gold Mountain Technologies, Vantage and others, Larry and Roy chose to rely on Kellyco to market the Pillar line. Right off the bad they made a fatal error because they didn't have an established name or, more important, an established dealer base to keep them afloat.
Stu and the crew at Kellyco are very savvy marketers and price things to sell the way they know how. Due to their customer pricing, those struggling to get a foothold or stay afloat met disaster because dealers wouldn't pick the line up regardless of how well they worked.
I think Jack made one of the best decisions for his business and gained some needed dealer support when he stopped dealing with Kellyco. It just wasn't a good business deal from Jack's viewpoint.
Ooops! Sorry to ramble. See what happens late at night when I'm tired?
Monte
I have nothing against Kellyco, and they can be a good dealership, from a business standpoint, to do business with AS LONG AS YOU'RE WELL ESTABLISHED to the point where you don't need to sell through them.
Like Teknetics, Gold Mountain Technologies, Vantage and others, Larry and Roy chose to rely on Kellyco to market the Pillar line. Right off the bad they made a fatal error because they didn't have an established name or, more important, an established dealer base to keep them afloat.
Stu and the crew at Kellyco are very savvy marketers and price things to sell the way they know how. Due to their customer pricing, those struggling to get a foothold or stay afloat met disaster because dealers wouldn't pick the line up regardless of how well they worked.
I think Jack made one of the best decisions for his business and gained some needed dealer support when he stopped dealing with Kellyco. It just wasn't a good business deal from Jack's viewpoint.
Ooops! Sorry to ramble. See what happens late at night when I'm tired?
Monte
Michigan Badger
New member
turning down the sensitivity takes care of it (for the most part).
I'm spending a lot of time testing the original Silver Sabre and the Sabre II. I may also bring into the picture the new Silver uMax to see how it competes.
I haven't gotten to a careful "coin garden" test yet. Right now I'm working actual sites using the Sabre II.
I'm digging lots of shells and modern coinage at 1-4 inches. They just blast off on sound and you can't mistake them.
I buried a clad dime out in the field today at a depth of 6-7 inches deep. I got a solid signal with no problem. I had the sensitivity set at 8 and was using the 12x10 concentric coil.
From that I'd guess I'd get 8-9 inches on a freshly buried dime. This is about the same as my Tejon with 9x8 coil.
I'm spending a lot of time testing the original Silver Sabre and the Sabre II. I may also bring into the picture the new Silver uMax to see how it competes.
I haven't gotten to a careful "coin garden" test yet. Right now I'm working actual sites using the Sabre II.
I'm digging lots of shells and modern coinage at 1-4 inches. They just blast off on sound and you can't mistake them.
I buried a clad dime out in the field today at a depth of 6-7 inches deep. I got a solid signal with no problem. I had the sensitivity set at 8 and was using the 12x10 concentric coil.
From that I'd guess I'd get 8-9 inches on a freshly buried dime. This is about the same as my Tejon with 9x8 coil.
if was due to a less than functional GB setting, and that was usually a direct result of using an accessory coil.
The Malan clan, in Ogden, Utah, have at least 4 or 5 of the 'original' Silver Sabre's that they have been using since '85 & '86. All with the standard 7" coil. In the past I have had three of them at one time to clean and tighten up and check out. I wanted to 'experiment' with one because I thought the coil might be bad. It wasn't, the particular unit was just out of balance for that particular coil. I swapped the coils around between them and noted variances between the settings with each coil.
Working a Passport in Time project with the Forest Service in 1992 one of the club members bought a 7" concentric coil from me because the stock 8" was too big for the brush and trash, and the hole was a hindrance.
I checked the Silver Sabre II with the stock 8" coil and all was working fine. I mounted the 7" concentric coil for her and checked it out. Noisy, noisy, noisy over some of the dirt and small rocks.
Checking the GB setting, it was quite obvious that the GB was now very negative. Bad coil? Nope, because I checked her unit using the 7" concentric coil off my Bandido and it was closer to functional, but still slightly negatively balanced.
Solution, I just found the worst ground at the site, 'Power Balanced' her Silver Sabre II with the 7" coil and everything worked great! Good, silent operation.
Now, if you're using your units anywhere near an interfering power source, then the cause might be outside RF interference. If not, check the GB setting.
Monte
MonteVB@comcast.net
The Malan clan, in Ogden, Utah, have at least 4 or 5 of the 'original' Silver Sabre's that they have been using since '85 & '86. All with the standard 7" coil. In the past I have had three of them at one time to clean and tighten up and check out. I wanted to 'experiment' with one because I thought the coil might be bad. It wasn't, the particular unit was just out of balance for that particular coil. I swapped the coils around between them and noted variances between the settings with each coil.
Working a Passport in Time project with the Forest Service in 1992 one of the club members bought a 7" concentric coil from me because the stock 8" was too big for the brush and trash, and the hole was a hindrance.
I checked the Silver Sabre II with the stock 8" coil and all was working fine. I mounted the 7" concentric coil for her and checked it out. Noisy, noisy, noisy over some of the dirt and small rocks.
Checking the GB setting, it was quite obvious that the GB was now very negative. Bad coil? Nope, because I checked her unit using the 7" concentric coil off my Bandido and it was closer to functional, but still slightly negatively balanced.
Solution, I just found the worst ground at the site, 'Power Balanced' her Silver Sabre II with the 7" coil and everything worked great! Good, silent operation.
Now, if you're using your units anywhere near an interfering power source, then the cause might be outside RF interference. If not, check the GB setting.
Monte
MonteVB@comcast.net
Michigan Badger
New member
[quote Monte]if was due to a less than functional GB setting, and that was usually a direct result of using an accessory coil.
Solution, I just found the worst ground at the site, 'Power Balanced' her Silver Sabre II with the 7" coil and everything worked great! Good, silent operation.
Now, if you're using your units anywhere near an interfering power source, then the cause might be outside RF interference. If not, check the GB setting.
Monte
MonteVB@comcast.net[/quote]
does one do it on the Sabre II?
I tried both the stock coil and the 12x10 and both cratter when I set the sensitivity on max. I have to back it off to about 8 or 9 to get a pretty silent search mode.
Solution, I just found the worst ground at the site, 'Power Balanced' her Silver Sabre II with the 7" coil and everything worked great! Good, silent operation.
Now, if you're using your units anywhere near an interfering power source, then the cause might be outside RF interference. If not, check the GB setting.
Monte
MonteVB@comcast.net[/quote]
does one do it on the Sabre II?
I tried both the stock coil and the 12x10 and both cratter when I set the sensitivity on max. I have to back it off to about 8 or 9 to get a pretty silent search mode.
Michigan Badger
New member
[quote Pap]let us know how you feel the two Sabres compare.
Pap[/quote]
I will, thanks for the interest.
Pap[/quote]
I will, thanks for the interest.
Michigan Badger
New member
[quote markg]Really!
Then the Sabre might be deeper with the correct coil...[/quote]
I won't know the exact depths until I get time to do a very precise "coin garden" test.
I'm still mostly at the general comparative stage of the game. I'm pretty much eyeballing depths and just digging holes and dropping coins in and covering them up.
But again, I've done this same thing with the Tejon, Nautilus IIb with 10 and 15 inch coils, Minelab Excalibur 1000, and several others.
So far the Silver Sabre II with the 12x10 coil matches or beats all the others. It's really obvious. But the final verdict will come in the precise tests. Right now I'm more interested in working real sites.
I'll also try the Sabre II with it's stock coil. In air tests it's very close to the 12x10 web coil. So, in-ground depth may not be all that different. The 12x10 may just have greater ground coverage. We'll see.
Then the Sabre might be deeper with the correct coil...[/quote]
I won't know the exact depths until I get time to do a very precise "coin garden" test.
I'm still mostly at the general comparative stage of the game. I'm pretty much eyeballing depths and just digging holes and dropping coins in and covering them up.
But again, I've done this same thing with the Tejon, Nautilus IIb with 10 and 15 inch coils, Minelab Excalibur 1000, and several others.
So far the Silver Sabre II with the 12x10 coil matches or beats all the others. It's really obvious. But the final verdict will come in the precise tests. Right now I'm more interested in working real sites.
I'll also try the Sabre II with it's stock coil. In air tests it's very close to the 12x10 web coil. So, in-ground depth may not be all that different. The 12x10 may just have greater ground coverage. We'll see.
Michigan Badger
New member
the 10x12 inch coil.
I don't have time to check the stock coil right now but I will as soon as I can.
I want to see how much difference there is in depth between the stock coil and 10x12. If there's not much actual in-ground difference I'd rather stay with the stock coil.
But, to judge fairly I'll need to get a better GB on the 10x12. That is if my stock coil proves to me right on. Maybe they're both negative? I'll see.
I don't have time to check the stock coil right now but I will as soon as I can.
I want to see how much difference there is in depth between the stock coil and 10x12. If there's not much actual in-ground difference I'd rather stay with the stock coil.
But, to judge fairly I'll need to get a better GB on the 10x12. That is if my stock coil proves to me right on. Maybe they're both negative? I'll see.
getting a proper functional GB set will eliminate some of the chatter and noise you're getting. That means you can crank up the Sensitivity.
Power Balance the ones that are too negative (very common with the bigger coil difference) and let me know here or via E-mail how they compare.
Monte
Power Balance the ones that are too negative (very common with the bigger coil difference) and let me know here or via E-mail how they compare.
Monte
Michigan Badger
New member
[quote Monte]getting a proper functional GB set will eliminate some of the chatter and noise you're getting. That means you can crank up the Sensitivity.
Power Balance the ones that are too negative (very common with the bigger coil difference) and let me know here or via E-mail how they compare.
Monte[/quote]
I feel a little uneasy about opening the Silver Sabre II detector and adjusting the GB right from the board. I know you said go easy but I;ve never done this before.
I'm not sure how I'll do this and do the coil up and down thing too.
Any suggestions?
Power Balance the ones that are too negative (very common with the bigger coil difference) and let me know here or via E-mail how they compare.
Monte[/quote]
I feel a little uneasy about opening the Silver Sabre II detector and adjusting the GB right from the board. I know you said go easy but I;ve never done this before.
I'm not sure how I'll do this and do the coil up and down thing too.
Any suggestions?
Uncle Willy
New member
Me to late at night. Didn't Jack have another private label out there besides the Pillar? Wish I could remember the name of that SS in disguise that I got from Kellyco but it's been a long time ago. I can't remember what I had for breakfast yesterday. 
Hope you are doing well.
Bill
Didn't Jack have another private label out there besides the Pillar? Wish I could remember the name of that SS in disguise that I got from Kellyco but it's been a long time ago. I can't remember what I had for breakfast yesterday. Hope you are doing well.Bill