Shovels at Parks or School

[amberjack]

we go over and over this old chestnut and we are all still out there detecting..

had someone approach me one day saying you cant dig holes here i said what's your definition of a hole obviously that question struck a nerve and i was then attacked with a barrage of outrageous accusations none of which were or are true..

my point is nothing i say or do is going to change someone's mind who has it made up, except now i will not accept that behaviour ever again..

another example a park 2 soccer fields never been detected in a nice quite spot talked with the guy who was in the same game as me garbage removal except he was the grounds keeper or what ever one wants to call them neither of us own the park and neither of us don't not own the park, he was very happy to see me spend every day except game day, spending 4 hrs a day cleaning out the park and it took me 4 months to get 95% out of there 1000's of tabs coins rings you name it it was in there. my point is if you go to that park today and try to find evidence of me doing what i did there is NONE and i did a community service.

the only crime committed would be in the eyes of someone who (doesn't like what i am doing) and as stated above timing is key and also understanding that 99% of people don't care less what i am doing its the 1% who see a target that are to be avoided like the plague, i turn my back and walk away now, if they persist i do quote civil harassment laws and they will be charged after all is not my personal safety above all else the most important or is someone taking out their bad day on me ok??

as i said before i am not responsible for anyone else's happiness, what i am responsible for is taking care of myself..

AJ

 

[RLOH]

Tom, as an experienced detectorist(both of us), you know that a shovel can cause less damage than a smaller digging tool. That is find and dandy among people in the know. The problem with "in the know" is who is in the know? The authorities are generally not "in the know". Unfortunately, the authorities are the people who call the shots and can ban all digging. With that said, please do not ask for trouble by showing up at any park, school, or fairgrounds with a shovel. Places to detect are hard to come by for me.

 

[GeorgeinSC]

Since I checked to see if the law had been passed (It Had) I decided that I would stay out of sight and not hit that park where there were city employees. I went to other parks. Yes I was breaking the law. But out of sight out of mind.

 

[Elton]

Tom, as an experienced detectorist(both of us), you know that a shovel can cause less damage than a smaller digging tool. That is find and dandy among people in the know. The problem with "in the know" is who is in the know? The authorities are generally not "in the know". Unfortunately, the authorities are the people who call the shots and can ban all digging. With that said, please do not ask for trouble by showing up at any park, school, or fairgrounds with a shovel. Places to detect are hard to come by for me.

I agree........We are limited enough without causing issues with a shovel. I promise you..A shovel in RLOH's and my area of the world will get you thrown out and even banned.
In the day time, or the night time. In fact most places around us will not allow night time entry... My suggestion is don't detect using anything that makes issues..and don't detect at the wrong times of the day, or night.
If you want to be confrontational show them so to say, and do what you want while detecting..You will lose in our area. End of the story.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Tom, as an experienced detectorist(both of us), you know that a shovel can cause less damage than a smaller digging tool. That is find and dandy among people in the know. The problem with "in the know" is who is in the know? The authorities are generally not "in the know". Unfortunately, the authorities are the people who call the shots and can ban all digging. With that said, please do not ask for trouble by showing up at any park, school, or fairgrounds with a shovel. Places to detect are hard to come by for me.

Yes. I agreed that it's all an "image" thing. Not a reality thing. I was just taking issue with the phrase of "digging up". While it's true we must "dig", yet .... the immediate connotation of that (like if this is bandied around at city hall in conjunction with someone inquiring about md'ing their parks) is .... holes. Even though, yes, you and I will leave no holes.

So when a question like this comes up on the forums: "Gee is it ok for us to go digging up the park?", I cringe. Sure we'll dig, but let's not let that characterization of our hobby, or choice of words be used outside our own ranks. To anyone outside the hobby it is an immediate connotation of "geeks leaving holes".

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Since I checked to see if the law had been passed (It Had)....

What "law" are you referring to ? A law that says "no digging" ? Or a law that says "no md'ing" ?

If you're referring to a law that says "no digging", then that has always been there, in some form or fashion. ("alter", "deface", "vandalize", "molest" , "cut", "move", etc....) Yes I agree that if they come along and add the SPECIFIC word "dig" (especially if they claim that was done in direct conjunction/reaction to md'rs), then that becomes more problematic. But I'm just saying that , *ultimately*, the prohibition of us digging can come EVEN without their having been the exact word "dig".

As long as it doesn't specifically say "no md'ing", I'm still going. Heck, there's even been md'rs (skittish ones mind you) who feel they can wriggle around these semantics by going out their with a screwdriver and just making a "slit", and "popping/fishing" the coin out. Thus not a "hole" and thus not "digging". But let's be dreadfully honest: This semantics game might pass technical muster, but you know full well that even if the park worker simply SEES an md'r (even if you're just swinging, and not retrieving at all), he's going to think "aha! *dig* and *holes* and still boot you. Then all the semantics are a moot point. You will still loose that debate with them.

So ... solution is: Out of sight is out of mind. The way I figure it, is if 1 person in a town of 100,000 "has an issue", I can beat my brains out trying to convert him to my semantics/definitions. Or .... I can simply avoid that one singular person. We had to do this at one city near us, where md'ing wasn't prohibited. But a single park worker in a single city would boot md'rs. Rather than figure "all the parks are off-limits" or "rush to city hall to seek clarification", several of us just made note of which days he was on-staff at that park. Then simply don't go on those days. Presto. Problem solved. Why swat hornet's nests ?

 

[amberjack]

see all the part with no green bits I can swing a shovel in it all, all day long

time is coming faster with each passing day when those who detect parks is gone the way of the dodo mostly because there's not much left and the greenies are taking over the cities but they wont go outback cause they don't like dirt

so until then I agree stay away from the watermelons all green on the outside and red in the middle...don't let their exterior baffle you !!

AJ

 

[GeorgeinSC]

The law in question was written to prohibit any excavation of dirt, sod, or other items in any city park. It did not prohibit metal detecting and the grounds keeper at that park said he had no problem with me detecting but they could not allow anything below the surface of the ground to be excavated.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

The law in question was written to prohibit any excavation of dirt, sod, or other items in any city park. It did not prohibit metal detecting and the grounds keeper at that park said he had no problem with me detecting but they could not allow anything below the surface of the ground to be excavated.

thanx for clarifying. Realize that that law was no doubt already there in some form or fashion. Even before explicit words like "excavation" or whatever might have been added. All/any park has verbiage to those effects (for someone who cares to gripe about us, anyhow). Eg.: "Alter", "deface", etc... And I do not consider them to mean we can't dig our targets. Because if we leave no trace, then we're within the implied spirit of said laws, IMHO. If we conclude otherwise, then every single park in the USA is off-limits.

Yes a "power-that-be" can certainly come up and alert you or I to a "princely decision". That we're falling afoul of ancillary catch-all verbiage. Heck, they can say you're "bothering earthworms", or "taking and harvesting", etc.... It's never-ending. Therefore, as long as a law doesn't explicitly say "no md'ing", I do not construe other boiler-plate catch-all stuff to apply to us.

As for isolated flukes like you encountered: Nor do I consider them to constitute law from then-on-forward. Sure: You give that one person lip service. And sure, you "give it a rest". But for all you know he's just having a bad-hair day. In my 40 yrs. of this I have had many such "scrams" at various parks that were never a problem before . And have never been a problem since that. We might "give it a rest" and come back at a more opportune time.

Or I might have heard of some friend of mine who 'caught flack' at a certain park of ours. Does that constitute "law" now for me too ? After all, no one in authority has said anything to me ?? So I continue to go, broad daylight for a year, and never hear "boo". So I tell my friend "must've been a fluke", and he too resumes.

 

[amberjack]

to much pontdigifcating now I think if your still on the right side of the bars after 40 years should be able to see it through to the end from here

so to dig or not to dig that is the question

simple one word answers from now on out


dig..

AJ

 

[vlad]

And really, its not free.......detectors cost, pinpointers, time to learn them, expense of travel, and hard damn effort to do it.
"you going to return that...?" (like a tungsten ring, or sterling, [or change people drop] sell for little and usually mean nothing-almost no resale value--like a name & address and etched inside???) And
as you said, the trash we pick up just on top of the ground; like cartridges, broken glass, hypo needles, and all kinds of metallic & non metallic crap.
A woman recently with a "ward 3 recreation district" told me I could not dig holes on a football field-that is Parish School Board Property??? [and the groundskeeper said its ok]
I just ignored her and kept hunting.
Let her call the cops, and she was yakking on that phone but no one showed up.

 

[tarajudy]

Most schools here in VA where I live are off limits. GO TO JAIL DO NOT PASS GO. MOST ARE FENCED IN ANY WAY SO JERKS DON'T COME IN AND DIG UP THE FOOTBALL AND BASEBALL FIELDS. NO PUBLIC ACCESS ALLOWED.

 

[amberjack]

that's great news that no jerks are allowed in the jails um schools sorry about that hard to tell the difference these days sounds like a great place to live.

AJ

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Most schools here in VA where I live are off limits.....

So too did our schools start getting fences put up, starting in the late 1970s. Prior to that , they were just considered sort of the defacto after school playgrounds when I was a kid. We used to see where rednecks came in and spun donuts with their 4W drives on the lawns. So I always sort of thought that must be the reason for the fences. But I'm sure it also has to do with the litigical age in which we live in. Where someone slips on a banana peel and sues. Or to keep perverts off the grounds, etc..

So when those fences went up when I was a kid, it didn't stop them from continuing to be used for after school play. Eg.: jog the track, shoot hoops, etc... Because there was always a turn-style or permanent propped open gate. With the obligatory "school use only" or "visitors check in at the office" type signage (that no one paid attention to).

And when I got into md'ing in the late 1970s, we routinely hit school yards. Yes, despite the "fences". It just never occurred to us that you couldn't. Is that to say that if we'd asked "can I?" that someone would have said "Yes" ? Probably not. Just saying that .... to this day ... you still see persons walk their dog, jog the track, shoot hoops, etc... So I guess we just never considered ourselves any different. (silly us)

I suppose some other states or cities "might be different". Or "might be buttoned up tight" . Or "might truly enforce". But having been there through the evolution of all this , I have to ask myself, when I see "dire threats" such as yours: If it's merely the same thing as here ? In other words, if I were new at this, and looked at the signs, or boiler plate laws, or asked school lawyers here, I too could no doubt walk away with 'dire conclusions'.

.... GO TO JAIL DO NOT PASS GO. ....

Ok, I'll bite. Can you tell us any incident of an md'r "going to jail" in VA for md'ing a school yard ? I'm sure that since it's such an imminent threat and reality that .... surely you have examples?

... DON'T COME IN AND DIG UP THE FOOTBALL AND BASEBALL FIELDS.....

Is that the way you characterize md'ing ? Then of course you won't get permissions. Of course you'll "be arrested". And of course if you walk into district offices and say "Hi, I'm a jerk and I'd like permission to 'dig up' the football field". What do you think they'll say ?

I CRINGE when I see md'ing characterized/described in that way. Because what does it imply tarajudy ?? HOLES, of course. Do you "leave holes"? If so, I would recommend taking "recovery 101 class" all over again. Because I don't leave any trace. Thus I will detect school yards.

 

[MarkCZ]

I CRINGE when I see md'ing characterized/described in that way. Because what does it imply tarajudy ?? HOLES, of course. Do you "leave holes"? If so, I would recommend taking "recovery 101 class" all over again. Because I don't leave any trace. Thus I will detect school yards.

"Recovery 101 Class"

 

[Tom_in_CA]

thanx.

For the "plugging" method, I would stress the importance of the 4th and final step: STOMP. Because if you just put the plug back in place, where it "bulges" up still, that's a recipe for it to remain visible. And to be sucked back up by a passing lawnmower (because they have a slight "pull" air force with their blades). So stomping multiple times, then "ruffling up" with your fingers helps. The final "ruffling/fluffing" gets any nuisance fugitive dirt on top to be less visible.

 

[Cameraniac]

nuisance fugitive dirt.

 

[asiandigger]

This video was made by the President of our club here in Northern Ca, Definitely made by someone with a shovel,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2_x-bXQU2c
He points out the plugs that are not put back and how to properly retrieve your targets

 

[MarkCZ]

This video was made by the President of our club here in Northern Ca, Definitely made by someone with a shovel,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2_x-bXQU2c
He points out the plugs that are not put back and how to properly retrieve your targets

In the video he didn't say or show it but I'm pretty certain that he spent some time repairing those left open digs!! I've been to our city park and found the same thing, plus with the ones I found if they dug out a can or other piece of trash they just left it on the ground next to the hole!!!!!

Parks are for public use! but that means your supposed to leave the area pretty much the way you found it!!!!! now things like,
Pressed down grass from a blanket,
Extra trash in the Trash cans,
are expected!!!

Yes!! they are many parks where the ground keepers have had to deal with "Detector Bandits" and so they are running anybody with a detector out! if that's the case then going around trying to get permission to hunt it is a lost cause.

In my earlier post I implied that if the existing posted park rules sign don't state "No Metal Detecting" and I wanted to detect it I would detect it! of course if someone in authority or a police officer tells to leave, then I would do so but, I would also nicely state that I had read the posted park rules and I didn't say anything that stated metal detecting wasn't allowed and then I would leave!!! I wouldn't give them a hard time and just make things worse. Also, they don't put a single sign up per park rule! they make a new sign and include the "No Metal Detecting" into the list of existing rules. .

 

[Dan-Pa.]

Shovels are for the boondocks or plowed fields ought to cover it.....No wonder more parks and such are off limits to the hobby....