Sarah5150, question

[FrankMD]

Hi Sarah, I enjoy your posts on the FBS V3 forum. I really liked the informative post where you showed the photos of the analysis screen while detecting rings and pulltabs.

Do you have any idea why the pulltab came out with that slant to the left? Maybe someone else may have an idea? I would really like to know technically what is happening there. Other bad targets (junk) may show that slant as well, maybe. That would be very helpful. I don't have a V3 yet but plan to get one.



http://www.findmall.com/read.php?66,1029212,1029212#msg-1029212


Frank

 

[Sarah5150]

My guess and it is only a guess is the different types of metals and how much of this and how much of that is put into different K's of gold and tabs, cans, etc. What brought this on and I said before was an IH nice uniform red hump with the 22.5 just under it and then the green at the bottom almost as if it wasn't there. What is an IH made out of? There is copper in both gold and tabs but it would be interesting to see what really is in a pull tab and how much.

A larger 14K band for instance would show a higher red hump on the screen as apposed to a smaller ring with less base metals. First of all Gold no matter what is not easy to find on land however I think we have narrowed the field. Now if there's gold and my coil goes over it its gold instead of well maybe just another pull tab. I just think tabs in general have more junk in them and that's the reason for the anomaly.

I think the Analysis screen will be extremely beneficial in the 30's to 50's range where there are less tabs and just more trash. Sweep over a broken up can with a close VDI and the Analysis screen shows trash all day but not so with Gold in that range.

Thank you for the compliment best of luck with your purchase.

 

[BHNugget]

Hi Frank, I was at a local park early this morning,we had a heavy rain yesterday so I figured I'd get some detecting in before the heat sucked the moisture out of the ground.The park is a pull tab haven so I figured I'd do some analyze screening there.Every pull tab and piece of aluminum I came across gave a straight as an arrow camel hump line up with varying VDIs and line separation depending on depth and Im guessing how the tab was in the ground.Im starting to think that maybe using just the 22.5 frequency with normalize off might be a better way for me to go through this park looking for jewelery.I know the MXT is very good at picking nickels out of pulltabs,so why not the V3 pulling gold out of pulltabs? I'll have to experiment with it a little bit,Im not going to get it done using the analyze in three frequency best data.

 

[FrankMD]

Thanks for the replys Sarah and BHNugget.

Looks like modern aluminum cans have 1% magnesium for strength. Not sure about pulltabs from the 70's.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beverage_can


Frank

 

[Sarah5150]

Hi Frank, I was at a local park early this morning,we had a heavy rain yesterday so I figured I'd get some detecting in before the heat sucked the moisture out of the ground.The park is a pull tab haven so I figured I'd do some analyze screening there.Every pull tab and piece of aluminum I came across gave a straight as an arrow camel hump line up with varying VDIs and line separation depending on depth and Im guessing how the tab was in the ground.Im starting to think that maybe using just the 22.5 frequency with normalize off might be a better way for me to go through this park looking for jewelery.I know the MXT is very good at picking nickels out of pulltabs,so why not the V3 pulling gold out of pulltabs? I'll have to experiment with it a little bit,Im not going to get it done using the analyze in three frequency best data.

Lesson on Finding Gold?

First of all I don

 

[Sarah5150]

Thanks for the replys Sarah and BHNugget.

Looks like modern aluminum cans have 1% magnesium for strength. Not sure about pulltabs from the 70's.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beverage_can


Frank

Thank for the link I'm really having fun with this. I'm going to make this Vision work for me and with help like this I'm thinking it will. Thank you for taking the time to look that up I'm going to contact a gold refiner and see what else is in gold 10k 14k and so on put it all together and see what I come up with. This is great stuff Keep posting your finds I wont be out that much for the next few weeks I need to keep motivated so pull a ton will ya

 

[sweepdog]

I would like to give a little information on how a detector detects. The composition of any metal makes no difference. A metal detector does not measure composition it measures conductivity. That is why it is so hard to separate pull tabs from gold. Gold and pull tabs have a similar conductance regardless of their composition.

 

[BHNugget]

No offense taken Sarah.In this particular area I just dont think discriminating VDIs is the answer and maybe there isnt a good answer except putting the Lesche in the ground.the junk pictured here gave VDIs ranging from 10 to 48 with very good looking analyze screens.The only one I had real reason to suspect was a little different was the complete old style tab which had the 7.5 spectagraph bar fade last.I was hoping it was because of some alloy mixed with gold,but no such luck.I generally just ignore the 19-20 VDI anyway unless the spectagragh bars are lined up and green usually indicating a nickel.I messed around a little today trying different things with the 22.5 with different settings,but didnt come up with anything solid to go off of,so I guess I'll just keep cleaning the park in the meantime.

 

[BHNugget]

That is why it is so hard to separate pull tabs from gold. Gold and pull tabs have a similar conductance regardless of their composition.

Not to mention lead.

 

[Jason in TN]

I would like to give a little information on how a detector detects. The composition of any metal makes no difference. A metal detector does not measure composition it measures conductivity. That is why it is so hard to separate pull tabs from gold. Gold and pull tabs have a similar conductance regardless of their composition.

You are right a detector does measure the conductivity of the metal. But the composition of the metal also effects the conductivity. So the composition will make a difference.
Can the V separate tabs from gold in some cases yes depends on the rings size and composition.

Just my thoughts

Jason

 

[Sarah5150]

No offense taken Sarah.In this particular area I just dont think discriminating VDIs is the answer and maybe there isnt a good answer except putting the Lesche in the ground.the junk pictured here gave VDIs ranging from 10 to 48 with very good looking analyze screens.The only one I had real reason to suspect was a little different was the complete old style tab which had the 7.5 spectagraph bar fade last.I was hoping it was because of some alloy mixed with gold,but no such luck.I generally just ignore the 19-20 VDI anyway unless the spectagragh bars are lined up and green usually indicating a nickel.I messed around a little today trying different things with the 22.5 with different settings,but didn't come up with anything solid to go off of,so I guess I'll just keep cleaning the park in the meantime.

(FYI) all the books on finding GOLD with the DFX don't just mention Disc edit as a means to break up the alloy targets the book practically is written mainly about it. I had a park I called trashy can park the lawn mowers running over cans and sending can shrapnel flying everywhere. I was able to identify the parks main supply of trash and disc out a common VDI (just one) and it broke the targets up enough to make them not targets so I could ignore the battlefield and concentrate on finding gold. I ended up with a man's anniversary band 14k same range but it didn't break up like the can shards did. The information in the book was 100% accurate and I do believe Clive Jenick just came out with another one but I'm not sure. Just a tool that still apply when using the Vision.

Also the majority of the gold at least the gold that I have found has hit below +20VDI. The XLT wasn't really much of a nickel finder but the DFX and the extra KHz helped find a lot more and now the Vision hits nickels like mad it because that nickles and gold come up in the same range and again with another increase in KHz that is why they are found with greater ease. So I wouldn't ignore +19+20 green bar or not. Anyway I'm in for two weeks no hunting except when I can get away after 4 well I hope you hit something good keeps the batteries charged

 

[nw1886]

It's good to see that you used edit so minimally and got results like that. That "stretch effect", around the one number, can be all it takes to avoid the nasties somewhat. (I haven't messed with it on the V yet.)

Looking back...Clive's XLT book was probably the most helpful MD book (of all time) for me... as a beginner with digital. The explanations were so easily grasped and my hunting improved expotentially from reading it. (His DFX book's style wasn't as "beginner based" but had good info.) Jeff Foster's was the one for me on the DFX..

You do good posts Sarah.

 

[Larry (IL)]

I read Clive's book, XLT Ring Enhancement Programs last night. It is an oldie, 1996, but it has a lot info that is still relevant to the V3, DFX, XLT and Eagle series. The programs are simple notching techniques, but he talks more about the common sense of jewelry hunting. The V3 will allow tone assignment instead of notching the VDI scale which I think would be a huge advancement.

 

[Sarah5150]

I believe the book is called, "Finding Gold With the DFX" is the book so old that it is outdated and there are better ways? Well I have no doubt we have better ways now but still use these techniques.

 

[Pat in On]

Hi Sarah

Not to be negative but with owning a v3 and having done a lot of bench testing over the weekend and reading the posts on the gold subject I would say at this point the v3 doesn

 

[Sarah5150]

Hi Sarah

Not to be negative but with owning a v3 and having done a lot of bench testing over the weekend and reading the posts on the gold subject I would say at this point the v3 doesn

 

[TheMarshall]

I would like to give a little information on how a detector detects.
The composition of any metal makes no difference.
A metal detector does not measure composition it measures conductivity. That is why it is so hard to separate pull tabs from gold. Gold and pull tabs have a similar conductance regardless of their composition.

[size=x-large]You are right a detector does measure the conductivity of the metal. But the composition of the metal also effects the conductivity. So the composition will make a difference.[/size]
Can the V separate tabs from gold in some cases yes depends on the rings size and composition.

Just my thoughts

Your thoughts are spot on Jason.........TheMarshall

Jason

**************************************************************************************

A metal detector can and does sense the effect of 'composition', be it 'layered', (As in clad), or homogeneity, as in alloyed. Equally important is the thickness of the whole 'composition' of the target.
All of these factors play their part and are prioritised by the frequency involved in the analysis.




The Minelab Explorers and the latest E-Trac does that.

It is quantified in true technical terms as the target's INDUCTANCE.

Minelab took this effect and called it the Ferrous factor, because of the similarity between real Fe action and the inductive component due to the Skin effect being similar in outcome.


Sarah initial post and her thoughts on the subject are subject to a multitude of variables, which can alter the 'picture' when a target is in the ground and at some depth beyond a couple of inches.



We can only begin to discover these vagaries by first contemplating matters as described by Sarah, then from that basis we then must contemplate what reality adds to the picture.

Other points of view are being expressed which are made by detectorists who encounter these 'less than ideal' conditions where one must be more broad minded about how liberally an analytical pattern must be interpreted.

Isolated shallow targets are relatively ideal in analytical terms, but the general situation is where the 9 inch or greater coil, sees an amalgamation of soil and targets at some depth.

Add in some noise etc., and that is the dilemma. Ultimately, the person who digs what is perceived as trash to the average detectorist, will be more successful.

Remember the old saying, "No gain, without pain."


...........................TheMarshall.

 

[Big Boys Hobbies]

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