Running channel 11

[IDXMonster]

Change it to anything BUT FeCo to avoid that. I just went through that deal.

 

[Mr. Carolina]

High mineralization, low mineralization, iron presence or extreme trash should dictate the mode chosen. There is a time and place for all.

Carolina

 

[Mr. Carolina]

Sube:
This is one mysterious machine for me! In the mode I run in at the beach, the caps in channel 11 would mostly stay on the 12 line and occasional 11 but conductivity would read from 12 to 17 with most at 17. Also target trace would paint a tight circle but in pin point always I mean always the caps would smear the screen and left no doubt it was a cap. The nickels paint a tight circle 12:14 in PP.
I set my machine up with sensitivity at 1 and ran your test with gold since that is my passion. Channel 1, 3 & 7 were the least stable at the fringe of detection ( which by way was 2" according to my screen ) 8 & 11 were the most stable and the fringe was now 3". Now without any change of the machine or search head, lights or power in my house, auto channel would give a stable reading at the 2" fringe. The odd thing was, with sensitivity at 1 to help cut out EMI & RFI auto channel selection back to back to back would read 2, 6 or 9 over and over again with no change of surroundings except what ever is going on in the air. What's your take on that other than atmospheric conditions?
On the topic of frequencies verses channels 1,2,3,4 etc. correlating one to the other is only a guess. 1 being the lowest and 11 being the highest. I have a pulse induction machine with 4 channels with 10 frequencies in each channel for a total of 40 frequencies. Eric Foster connected a oscilloscope to the coil wires at the search head and measured each channel and found that there was no correlation from 1 to 40 on the frequencies. The only real correlation was between the frequency chosen and the power it took to run that frequency which directly related to battery life. #1 was not necessarily the lowest and #40 the highest frequencies.
There must be a way to determine the best three frequencies chosen at any given time and what frequencies they are. I am not the one to figure this out, but someone out there should be able to. Thanks for all your input as it puts the mind to working.
Now on the subject of George Payne. How could anyone disagree with anything that he says? His word is pretty much gold! I have always read that a nickel resonates the highest at 19.

Carolina
Carolina

 

[sube]

This is one mysterious machine for me! Quote Carolina

You and me to. I often wonder what would happen if 12 guys went metal detecting and they all had ctxs 10 guys show up they all noise cancel would they use up 10 channels then I get there late and noise cancel would I get the last channel . Then the last guy shows up slept in late he noise cancels is the detector going to say go home no more channels lol . I will bet some will be running the same channel . As to your ? mine will display those same #s hum.

Now as to where I noise cancel on the ground or in the air I do it in the air most emi is in the air except buried power lines and you know when you get by one da da da da . Now noise canceling on the ground why you move 3 feet and it's not the same different ground more rust more trash you can't hear all kinds of stuff what's the point . So plant a nickel and a dime at 7 inches where you hunt and see what channel is the most stable I think you will see a difference between what you see and what the machine picks .

As to your 19 14 start up in auto sensitivity that is what it does as you start to detect the machine monitors the ground and 1 or 2 minutes later bang 24 21 or 16 13 it has to have some time to come up with those sensitivity #s wonder what would happen if you just let it sit would the #s change I don't think so it has to sample ground to come up with those #s. sube

 

[Mr. Carolina]

Hi Sube:
Well I can't seem to find the time to experiment at the beach. When I get there, I'm off and running.Lol. I will make some time this week just for that.
Question. In auto sensitivity, as the ground changes so does the sensitivity, as the numbers indicate. Now, in auto noise cancel, after the initial NC and you return to the detect screen. Does the NC track the ground and change accordingly?
Tied to this and your thoughts on NC in the air verses the ground-------- Andy's bootcamp teaches you to NC on the ground where you position the coil to search, not in the air. Also he teaches, to watch the sensitivity #'s and when you see them move, NC again. His statement, NC often so as not to loose depth.
Today I dug a tremendous amount of nickels and only a few dimes running manual 11. 11 does seem to hit harder on nickels. The broken signals although the conductive number was locked on 14 were 17" deep. That is in low mineral damp sand 28 auto sensitivity. This is good depth where I hunt. My scoop handle has three marks six inches each. When I'm curious I just flip the scoop and in goes the handle. Some people say two scoops, three scoops five scoops deep but this tells me nothing.
So today I pulled a 14k heavy ear ring, 25mm Dia. X 8mm wide x 3mm thick. 4 grams, very nice. No rings or neckless. I did recover 24 nickels which is double what I normally find. Was it because I ran manual 11 or I just got in the nickel zone, I have no idea. I do know I will continue manual 11 my next time out. Am curious of your thoughts on the NC question. I do know with my coil on the ground, if someone running the right frequency or large coil nearby, it still effects my machine. I also have checked in auto NC my channel just mins. apart and have seen two different channels so maybe auto NC changes with the ground?

Carolina

 

[trojdor]

Question. In auto sensitivity, as the ground changes so does the sensitivity, as the numbers indicate. Now, in auto noise cancel, after the initial NC and you return to the detect screen. Does the NC track the ground and change accordingly?
Tied to this and your thoughts on NC in the air verses the ground-------- Andy's bootcamp teaches you to NC on the ground where you position the coil to search, not in the air. Also he teaches, to watch the sensitivity #'s and when you see them move, NC again. His statement, NC often so as not to loose depth.
I also have checked in auto NC my channel just mins. apart and have seen two different channels so maybe auto NC changes with the ground?
Carolina

Carolina,
NC doesn't track anything...it's a fixed number and doesn't change until you do another NC. Even though it says 'auto', it just means it automatically scans the spectrum that one time and chooses what it thinks is the best/clearest channel...but it's only a snapshop of that exact moment.
Because EMI is so prevalent, and can vary in just a few feet, that's probably why Andy told you to NC like the old joke about voting, "Vote (or NC) early, and vote (or NC) often."

You would be amazed and horrified how much EMI just one cell phone puts out...and it can change frequencies a hundred of times a minute if needed.
They are always two way radios...even when not being used to talk!

BTW, I also NC like Andy, but with a slight variation....I NC with the coil slightly raised off the ground at about the same height I sweep the coil.
My theory is that anything I adjust on the detector is meant to improve things for me under actual hunting conditions...and I don't hunt with my coil 3 feet in the air, nor pressed hard against the ground.

Good luck,

mike

 

[Mr. Carolina]

Mike:
Thank you for your input and I am curious where you received your information on the NC " real time snapshot ". Being an electrical contractor with a degree I am fairly well versed on EMI & RFI. Not so much on the CTX as I have only 3 years with this machine and still am finding new information. That is why I am curious about your take on NC. As for NC in the air or on the ground there are valid points for both I think. EMI for me becomes a problem only when my threshold is erratic or unstable at my max. sensitivity, which is usually very high (27). In checking manual channels 1-11 I have not yet experienced stability problems from the ground or air where I detect. Only from other detectors in my vicinity have I had EMI issues. I do hope Sube weighs in on these issues as he as much as any is well versed on this machine and I consider his input valuable for me. Thanks again and let me know your reference please on the NC. I will check Minelabs manual which I believe is where this info is. More on this later.

Carolina

 

[sube]

Question. In auto sensitivity, as the ground changes so does the sensitivity, as the numbers indicate. Now, in auto noise cancel, after the initial NC and you return to the detect screen. Does the NC track the ground and change accordingly?
Tied to this and your thoughts on NC in the air verses the ground-------- Andy's bootcamp teaches you to NC on the ground where you position the coil to search, not in the air. Also he teaches, to watch the sensitivity #'s and when you see them move, NC again. His statement, NC often so as not to loose depth.
I also have checked in auto NC my channel just mins. apart and have seen two different channels so maybe auto NC changes with the ground?
Carolina

Carolina,
NC doesn't track anything...it's a fixed number and doesn't change until you do another NC. Even though it says 'auto', it just means it automatically scans the spectrum that one time and chooses what it thinks is the best/clearest channel...but it's only a snapshop of that exact moment.
Because EMI is so prevalent, and can vary in just a few feet, that's probably why Andy told you to NC like the old joke about voting, "Vote (or NC) early, and vote (or NC) often."

You would be amazed and horrified how much EMI just one cell phone puts out...and it can change frequencies a hundred of times a minute if needed.
They are always two way radios...even when not being used to talk!

BTW, I also NC like Andy, but with a slight variation....I NC with the coil slightly raised off the ground at about the same height I sweep the coil.
My theory is that anything I adjust on the detector is meant to improve things for me under actual hunting conditions...and I don't hunt with my coil 3 feet in the air, nor pressed hard against the ground.

Good luck,

mike

You are correct it dose not track it's a fixed number you set or the machine picks .

As to noise cancel I noise cancel a foot above the ground reason being can't find a metal free area where I hunt . Now as to noise canceling on the ground with coil not moving this gets the same noise channel I get when a foot above . Now it says to noise cancel on metal free ground I will ask where well I find that , rust flakes tiny pieces of foil small gold chains and other things you can't hear the reason you don't hear them is the detector dose not have a all metal mode it is using a salt discriminating filter all the time therefor it's discriminating these noises out .True all metal mode would see these targets .

If I hold the coil a foot above the ground and noise cancel I am not picking up any metal in the ground higher if 17 inch coil is used now any emi that's coming from the ground I am sure being a foot away it well hear it and any emi in the air well be sensed by the top of the coil . Mike you know how little movement it takes to get a target to come in having your coil just off the ground I am sure you can't hold it steady for 30 seconds if the coil moves ground noise or unheard metal well make noise which should change your noise cancel channel from having the coil fixed and not moving on the ground .

I have tested it with a nickel and a bottle cap under the coil while noise canceling it seems to pick channel 1 all the time and when I noise cancel the detector it picks 9 with no metal under it .So metal dose effect what channel is picked and it won't be the right one . As to picking your own channel I use a planted nickel and dime where I hunt even with the plants if I get far enough away I am
sure it's not running the channel the detector would pick. So as long as I don't get da da da da and the detector is running reasonable quite i'm good to go .Now there is lighting happening a 1000 miles away which well effect how much noise your detector well make but there's nothing you can do about it . The only emi I care about is the da da da da from close emi which tells me I need to change my noise channel .

One other point if minelabs book is wrong on noise cancel why didn't they address it and state on there website , I think it's because it really doesn't matter where you noise cancel as long as your not on metal . sube

 

[Mr. Carolina]

Hi Sube:
Well I'm pretty much going to sit back and watch and read you guys comments and learn. I do agree after testing the auto noise cancel is a fixed number. I think my circumstances are much different from yours as I primarily hunt damp sand and water where ground conditions are much different. I do however think I can improve my skills by employing some of your knowledge and techniques. I am curious about your use of GB and what your take is on this option? I would also like to touch base again on the NC. I know Safari and eTrack are FBS detectors and the CTX is FBS2. I believe the Safari and eTrack say to NC with the coil resting on the ground where the CTX instructs your method, off the ground. Is it because of the difference between FBS & FBS2 ? Or did Minelab decide they had it wrong at first or does it really make a hill of beans? I do believe I will continue to run manual 11 for my low conductors and auto sensitivity +3 as this consistently produces nickels in the 15" range or shallower. Thanks for all your input and look forward to your thoughts on the GB.

Carolina

 

[brother steve]

Great words of Wisdom Master Yoda!

 

[IDXMonster]

My Explorer2 instruction is to have the coil on the ground with no metal nearby. By the time the CTX arrived maybe ML realized that like Sube,we are using these machines SPECIFICALLY IN METAL LADEN AREAS! So perhaps they thought the lesser of two evils (1...not being in the "detecting position" and 2...we can't find a clean spot ANYWHERE) was the way to minimize operational heartache, so they suggest doing it in the air now. Brandon (Dr. Tones) had thought that perhaps the metal in the ground would act as a "tuning fork" and would disrupt the NC process,leading to a less than optimized machine for the site.
Now, we obviously wouldn't want any metal in the ground when we are GROUND BALANCING. That would make for a positive offset that would make it harder to see small or deeper targets. Thankfully I've never had to use the manual Ground Balance feature, none of my sites are quite that rotten. Close...but not quite...

 

[sube]

Hi Sube:
Well I'm pretty much going to sit back and watch and read you guys comments and learn. I do agree after testing the auto noise cancel is a fixed number. I think my circumstances are much different from yours as I primarily hunt damp sand and water where ground conditions are much different. I do however think I can improve my skills by employing some of your knowledge and techniques. I am curious about your use of GB and what your take is on this option? I would also like to touch base again on the NC. I know Safari and eTrack are FBS detectors and the CTX is FBS2. I believe the Safari and eTrack say to NC with the coil resting on the ground where the CTX instructs your method, off the ground. Is it because of the difference between FBS & FBS2 ? Or did Minelab decide they had it wrong at first or does it really make a hill of beans? I do believe I will continue to run manual 11 for my low conductors and auto sensitivity +3 as this consistently produces nickels in the 15" range or shallower. Thanks for all your input and look forward to your thoughts on the GB.

Carolina

Hey idx I did some reading and there seems to be some confusion on what the highest and lowest channels are on the minelabs the explorer series ran there #s 1 being highest and 11 being lowest the ctx and etrac had there #s reversed to 1 being lowest and 11 being highest .

I think all the fbs and fbs2 detectors have the same nc circuit so no difference in how you noise cancel . My thoughts on gb I will only run gb in ground coin bad ground anytime I get down below 15 for sensitivity but if I have a lot of targets and iron I will run ferrous coin or high trash and just live with the noise . Ground coin doesn't like a lot of targets if it's not loaded with targets I will go to ground coin and gb . but I have not had to use ground coin where I hunt very much I have spots where I hunt that have tons of rusted and decaying caps where my sensitivity well drop I tried ground coin here and then went back over with ferrous coin and found coins ground coin missed . Ferrous coin separates iron from good targets where as ground coin separates ground noise from good targets so even though I am running ferrous coin in tuff ground it still out did ground coin but it was a lot noisier than ground coin . sube

 

[Mr. Carolina]

Sube
Not sure if you meant me or IDX but, I would agree with what you have said. I run low trash as my sensitivity tells me low mineral. In the bay where there is tons of iron, ferrous coin. I have no need for ground coin or high trash and I make sure GB enable is off. Can you help me find where it is written about the assignment of frequencies to channels. For the CTX #1 being the lowest and #11 being the highest? Thanks

Carolina.

 

[IDXMonster]

You guys might want to look at this as well,regarding aftermarket coils and disc patterns...if you're not careful you could get fried because the disc is too tight or you're only digging specific numbers. I'm not sure how it might apply to the CTX but it's an eye opener FOR SURE! https://youtu.be/9KHoljdF3Ms

 

[Mr. Carolina]

Thanks IDX

I'm good though. There are only two after market coils for the CTX made by CoilTek specifically for the CTX. I doubt if Sube hunts by numbers but might use them for a reference more than anything. At least for me. All kinds of conditions and position of targets can skew the numbers a bit. Tones and breaks in threshold govern my style then numbers. Today was a banner day for me. 5 rings 3 gold 2 Junkers and a heavy 3.8 grill from a brother!!!

Thanks again

 

[IDXMonster]

A grill? Damn!! Great hunting!!!

 

[Mr. Carolina]

I think I spelled it wrong. They call them grilz or fronts! Thanks, find at least one a year here. Wonder how many get swallowed? Lol

 

[IDXMonster]

Yeah that'd be a hell of a time on the toilet...