Remote Pin Point Switch For GT

[Critterhunter]

OK, I've been getting constant off and on asking about when I plan to simplify the GT remote PP switch schematic (actually more of a pictorial) in the mods forum. I plan to make that my next project on the computer. Shouldn't take long, as all the information already exists in the GT mod thread. It's just that if I list a few more things it will make it about as plain simple as possible for people. For instance, if I list the internal wire colors of the stereo plug I gave the part # for people won't have to use an ohm meter or test light to determine which contacts on the plug are what internal wires inside that stereo cord. You'll just have to follow the directions of which color wires go to what on the switch to wire it right up with no problem.

There did exist a few old PP projects for the Sovereign, but those were for machines that had different switch configurations and such. Truth is on the GT there are a number of ways you could go about doing a remote PP in various wiring/function methods, but the way I did it provides full stock function of the two related switches on the GT regardless of whether the remote PP cord is plugged in or not, yet allows the remote PP to also override those switches in certain respects. By retaining full function and control of the stock switches you are also afforded far more diversity in what you want the PP switch to do (in switching modes), not just the ability to use the stock switches while the PP is still plugged in.

This is also the safest way I could think of to wire the switch. Should it short in certain ways no damage probably will occur. Rather you'll just be stuck in a certain mode if that ever happens. Also, it eliminates any possibility of internal connections being made that are normally never supposed to happen on the GT. For instance, wired certain ways it would have been possible to put the GT's stock switch into one mode, while the external switch creates parallel contact pathways to also try to cause the machine to run in another mode. Not a good idea, and with unknown and probably bad results in terms of what might happen to the machine.

Only reason why I'm bringing this all up is I've had a few people ask me why I didn't do things this way or that way. Yes, there are several ways it could have been hacked together, but this is the safest and most logical I could come up with.

As always, USE AT YOUR OWN RISK! Opening your machine will void the warranty, and I make no claims as to having thought out every possible thing that might or could go wrong with the schematic I provided. You could very well damage your machine in building it, or in some form or fashion in it's operation that I some how overlooked. Your bag if it blows up.

 

[w6pea]

Sounds complicated I need some more Old Bushmills and Coffee

 

[synthnut]

Sovereign Mods For Dummies
by Critterhunter

It's got a catchy ring to it ........

Please don't assume that we don't use Iron Mask OFF when you do you schematic .... Please include all 3 modes of operation .....Thanks buddy !!....You da man !! ......Jim

 

[Critterhunter]

Jim, you can put the stock switch into Iron Mask ON, OFF, or All Metal, then flip the All Metal PP, Fixed, & Track switch into whatever position you want on that stock switch as well. The remote PP switch unplugged does not interfer, and when it's plugged in it doesn't either....Until you throw the remote PP switch one direction. Now it removes control of what ever the Iron Mask On/OFF/All Metal switch is doing and bypasses that straight to whichever All Metal mode you have that switch on the GT set to (PP, Fixed, Or Track). Flip the remote PP back the other way again and once again control is returned to whatever the stock Iron Mask ON, OFF, or All Metal switch is doing. See? The stock switches work fine whether it's plugged in or not, and when it is plugged in they still have control as normal. Throw the remote PP the other way and now the Iron Mask switch is bypassed and total control is given to whatever mode you had the All Metal switch on the machine set to.

For that reason, you can be in Iron Mask Off or ON if you want. You could even have that switch set to All Metal and then flip over to All Metal via the PP. What does that do? Nothing at all, since the stock switch is already in All Metal. You are in effect switching from stock switch telling the machine to run in All Metal to the remote PP switch telling the machine to run in All Metal. Point is it's impossible to short the machine two separate ways at once, at least as far as I've thought it out over and over again. Want to hunt in All Metal Fixed and then check targets in reverse discrimination? Throw the All Metal switch to Fixed, then throw the other stock switch into either Iron Mask On or OFF. Now throw the PP switch and your in All Metal checking targets. Throw it the other way and your back to Iron Mask On or Off. How about hunting in PP? Set that switch to that, then set the other stock switch to Iron Mask On or Off. Now throw the PP switch and you are in PP mode. Imagine that! Who would have thought a remote PP switch could also be used for, well...pin pointing? Find a target in PP you want to check out with discrimination? I think you got it but follow me here...Throw the remote PP switch the other way and now you are in Discriminate OFF or ON, depending on what those are set at.

Primarily and distilled down to basic terms, set your stock switches for what you want. The remote PP switch will then bypass the Iron Mask Switch and turn control directly over to whatever you have the All Metal switch set to. Throw the PP switch back and control is returned to the stock Iron Mask Switch once more. It's like throwing that switch into All Metal remotely, though a little more complicated than that.

 

[synthnut]

Call me stupid , but you totally lost me with that explanation ....This is what I would like to do, and you tell me if it's possible ......We have the stock control body that has an input jack to accomadate the remote switch ......I want to plug a remote switch into a jack in the Sovereigns contol box , and uset is EXACTlY like the control box switch and have ALL THREE positions ......In other words , I just want a remote extension of what's already on the control box ......I don't care if I have ANY control of the control box switch once I have the remote plugged in ....I want to be able to use the REMOTE ONLY when it's plugged in ......The way I discussed with you that i wanted to wire it , I would simply bring all the wires from one switch , to an input jack, and wire it to the remote switch EXACTLY like it's wired to the control box switch ....When I wanted to use the remote switch, I would then put the control box switch in a position that ALL THREE legs of the control box switch are open .....At that point I can use the remote swtich just like the control box switch would normaly work of the remote was NOT plugged in .... You indicated to me that if the control box switch got switched the wrong way, and I had the remote switch in a certain position that I could cause a problem with my Sovereign ..... That COULD happen I suppose , but if I"m not touching that particular switch on the control box , I don't see it as a problem , HOWEVER , if I could have my remote switch work just like the control box switch works NORMALLY , and I don't have to worry about screwing my Sovereign up, show me the way !!.......I hope I'm not confusing you .....Some things are just hard to put into words , and this is one of them ..... I could probably show you in 2 seconds what I'm talking about , but to put it in words is much more lengthy .......Thanks , Jim

 

[Critterhunter]

Jim, yes...that can be done, but there isn't much point in having control of all three positions (Iron Mask ON, Off, & All Metal). It's rare for people to hunt with Iron Mask Off, which you can currently do with the PP switch the way I showed to wire it. Just throw it to that on the box, then throw the PP switch to switch between that and All Metall (PP, Fixed, Or Track). So that's no problem at all as explained above. You can choose any mode for that stock switch on the machine, and any of the three modes of the other stock switch. Now the remote PP toggles between whatever those two are set at. As I was saying, it's rare but I know there are a few of you guys who like to use Iron Mask Off. Fine, you can do that, but it's even more rare for somebody to want to be able to switch between Iron Mask OFF & ON on the fly. I wouldn't see much point in that being able to be done with the remote PP. Are you really hunting in Iron Mask OFF a lot and then flipping over to ON constantly? Far more common for people to want to flip between either one of those two modes they always hunt in and either PP, Fixed, or Tracked for checking targets both way or just to PP. As I said, you can do that with the current switch functions and toggling the remote PP.

If you wanted to do what you are saying then I'd still severe the middle pin on the stock switch when the PP switch is plugged in, then run circuit pathways from that switch to your remote PP to mimic the interal connection pathway of the stock switch to all three functions. You mainly need to insure that the stock switch can not be thrown to one mode while the remote PP is trying to force it into the other mode. The machine was never intended to do that. If you look closely at the schematic I made it's fairly simple. In one mod there is no circuit pathway for the pins. In another mode two of those pins are connected internaly in the switch, and in the third mode one one of those pins is paired to a different pin while the other once again is not. It's been a while since I looked at that schematic but I'll refresh my memory on the various configurations of the stock switch for the various modes and then PM you a quick and dirty schematic if you really want to retain all three functions via the PP switch. I just don't see much point in that.

 

[Critterhunter]

OK, here's the latest version of the pictorial along with the which wire colors from inside the listed stereo cord hitch up to the switch. Can't be any easier than that. You need no test equipment now. Just follow which wires go to what pins for the whole thing and your done. Note that the colors listed for wiring the jack up inside the GT are just the colors of some servo wire I used to do that. The colors of the cut open stereo cord and how they hook up to your remote PP is what is most important, so that the proper pins from the GT route down the proper wires inside the stereo cord to the switch. Just read the info in this pic and I'm sure everything will be self explanatory. If you have any further questions let me know.

There are numerous ways you can mount the remote PP. You could run the wire for it under the foam grip cover on the stock grip and then attach the switch near the top using a hose clamp or something. I prefer mounting it inside a bike end bar, as these being aluminum are lighter than the stock grip and so much more comfortable with the right rubber hand grip put on them. What I did was hold the end bar in my hand like I was detecting to determine how much of the overhanging length was needed to have easy access to the switch. You don't want the switch so far away that you can't reach it with your index finger. Once I figured that out I then cut the excess length off the end of the end bar that wasn't needed. I then cut a slot in the end bar because the switch I used was a little too big to figit down inside of it and then be able to flip into a drilled hole. With the slit I just mounted the switch via it's nut and then slid it down inside the end bar to where I wanted it, tightening the nut the rest of the way (don't over tighten, it'll strip real easy!). Now the switch is hanging down from the hand grip as it is on most detectors like Whites. Oh, I also had to snip down the pin contacts on the switch for final clearance in order to fit it inside the end bar. Do this before soldering your wires on it.

The remote PP plugs into a stereo jack on the back of the GT via a stereo cord. I routed the cord inside the shaft and then directly up inside the end bar for a hidden/clean install of everything. Once all was done I sealed that slit I cut in the end bar for the switch with some Shoe Goo (rubber cement), then installed the end cap back onto the end bar. When you cut the length of the end bar down make sure to take into account the width of the end cap. Provide extra length for that otherwise it will bump into the switch and not seal properly.

The pictures of all this stuff can be found in the Mods forum under the GT Mods thread. Sooner or later I'll be posting a complete build thread for the shaft, remote PP routing/end bar, etc. The pics are there but the instructions I've got to proof read before posting. Finished all that a while back, just never seem to get around to it.

Set your stock switches on the GT for desired function- Iron Mask ON or OFF, and then the All Metal switch to PP, Fixed, or Track. Now when you flip the remote PP it will toggle between whatever to modes you have chosen with the stock switches. The stock switches will still work properly whether the remote PP is plugged in or not. That's the beauty of it all.

Anything that seems confusing or needs clarified just let me know.

 

[Critterhunter]

One other thing. The irony is that with these SEF coils I prefer to PP in discriminate most of the time. It avoids nearby junk sounding off and seems just as precise. For some reason PP mode will often sound off over a wide area in my soil, probably due to mineral content. Still, I do often switch over to PP when I want to get real precise if Discriminate doesn't seem to be putting the target in the same place when checked from both directions. Some times that still doesn't work in PP mode due to minerals, iron, etc. Seems Discriminate more often narrows the target down cleanly for me using the tip of the coil like I like to do with these SEFs. PP is useful when I suspect a deep target might be iron. If it moves off to the side of where discriminate puts it at then chances are it's iron, but I have dug coins that did that. Either nearby trash or them being on edge causes PP to disagree with discriminate in terms of where both said the target ways. That's why more often than not I just use discriminate. Also, often real deep targets will not sound off in PP for me but I can PP them in discriminate. It's for sure a real useful feature having a remote PP. It's effortless to check targets both ways so I almost always do just to see how both jive with each other. A remote PP is also very useful for those who like to reverse discriminate on the beach and such. Hunt in PP or one of the All Metal modes and then just flip the remote PP to double check it in Iron Mask On or OFF. That's a fun thing to do on the beach when targets are few and far between, and as said very effortless.

 

[Critterhunter]

Just a minor update to the pictorial. I took out some obsolete information since I've now provided the wire colors inside the stereo cord to wire up to the switch. You could also install a second jack near the switch for total removal of the cord when not in use. Wire the switch to this second jack as shown with the proper pin numbers, but do not connect 3 to 1 like the jack has at the control box. It isn't needed for the second jack. Since I see no reason to ever remove the cord on my land rig, I have the stereo cord wired directly to the switch. Besides, I've got the stereo cord running inside the shaft and up inside the hand grip to hide it better. When using the control box on my water rig I just unplug the stereo cord from the back of the GT, since when chest mounted for water hunting I prefer to use the stock GT switch if I want to use PP or one of the All Metal modes. The switch is much easier to reach in that case and no sense in risking a remote PP getting wet.

If anybody has any further questions feel free to ask or shoot me a PM.

 

[w6pea]

Now I am confused. Me being a Ham Radio operator too hi hi

 

[synthnut]

w6pea,
You're not alone .....I'm still confused from the begining schematic description ....This one just brought me to the point of no return !!.... Jim

 

[Critterhunter]

Oh come on! It couldn't be any more simple in explanation unless I wire the thing up for you myself. OK, let's keep it even more basic...

Go to Radio Shack and buy the stereo jack, switch, and stereo cord I listed part #s for. The other alternative part numbers in the pictorial are for different types of switches (push button, larger, smaller, etc).

Open up GT as I covered the steps in the Mods forum. Very easy to do.

Lay the face plate in the same orientation that I show in the pictorial.

Cut the middle pin on the designated switch I indicate and bend the two ends away from each other a bit.

Figure out where you want the jack to go on the back of the GT. Note the two covers of the control box to make sure nothing will get in the way when it's put back together. You can see where I put it in some of the pics walking you through the steps. Drill a hole here and mount the jack.

Solder a wire to the bottom pin. Anywhere will do but the tip will be easiest to reach. (ALWAYS use a little flux first to clean surface for easy soldering). On the stereo jack you will see pins with numbers on them. They are NOT in order, so make sure you find the right number for 1. Run the wire from the bottom pin on the switch to pin 1. Strip enough insulation off this wire so it will also reach pin 3 as well. Solder to both points.

Solder another wire up to the top cut post on the GT switch. Run this wire to pin #2 on the jack and solder in place there too. Also, if you have trouble reading the pins on the jack the package it came in should have a lay out of the pins on it as well.

Solder another wire to the right most pin or post on the GT switch. Solder the other end of this wire to pin 5 on the jack.

I used a 3 conductor servo wire. It puts less stress on the solder joints and is a cleaner install if you use a 3 wire conductor like that. I also put a dab of rubber cement on the jack where the three wires run across it to prevent stress there while swinging the GT. You can do the same near the switch at the face plate if you feel the need to. It's just to prevent future loose connections due to constant sweeping motion where the wires might be flopping around in there. Secure them if you want as above or via a zip tie or something.

DONE! Close up your GT. Turn the machine on and you should still have full control of the DISC and All Metal switches. If not then you have a bad connection somewhere or you wired to the wrong pins on the jack.

Now let's tackle the switch. Do you want a jack at the switch end as well? If so then don't hitch pin 1 to 3 like we did for GT jack. It's not needed. Just hook up pins 1, 2, and 5 to wires to run to your switch at this end.

Most people aren't going to want a jack at the switch end, so you are going to need to cut the stereo cord's plug off one end. Measure how long you want the cord to be to reach your hand grip where the switch is going to mount. Provide yourself with 3 to 4" extra length just in case. Cut the wire and strip. You'll notice 3 wires inside...A red, a black, and a bare wire with no insulation on it.

The bare wire must go to the middle pin on the switch I listed the part # for. The red and black wires don't really matter which one of the outer pins they go to on the switch. Solder all three up.

Now set your switches on the GT for the modes you want. Plug the stereo cord into the jack on the back of the GT, and turn the machine on. Is it running in one of the discrimination modes or is it in one of the All Metal modes? Flip the remote PP the other way. Is it now running in the other mode like it should, discrimination or All Metal...The reverse of what it was when flipped the other way? Good, then you have wired it successfully. If you have any issues read the bottom of the pictorial where I give some basic troubleshooting info.

Mount your switch via a hose clamp, drilling a hole in the stock grip (run the wire under the foam grip), or best I think is to mount it inside a bike end bar. These end bars have slight left or right bends in them. Some are worse than others. A slight bend won't matter. Just position it on the shaft to where your fist is dead center down the top of the shaft. In order to mount the switch inside the end bar I used I had to first clip down the pins on the switch shorter before soldering so it would fit inside the end bar. I still couldn't flip it into a drilled hole once inside, so I had to cut a slot down the end bar to desired position so I could slide the switch down inside it already in place so to speak.

I ran the stereo cord inside the shaft and to the base of the end bar. My end bar had a slight flat spot near the base so I drilled a hole straight up inside that to run the wiring. You could drill directly through the mounting clamp of the end bar but that makes getting the wire up inside it tricky. A lot of end bars have this flat indentation right near the base that was perfect. I'll post the model # end bar I used soon. It was like $10 I think. Mainly you want the wire to run up inside the end bar in some fashion where it's not being rubbed or moved by your hand all the time. If it exits the shaft and goes right inside the end bar near it's base and dead center on the side facing you then your hand will naturally clear it. I sealed the slot I cut in the end bar and where the stereo cord enters/exits the shaft and goes into the end bar with rubber cement (Shoe Goo). This will avoid dirt or water getting inside as well as keep the stereo cord from rubbing a short into it.

Mount the switch so that when flipped to discriminate it's flipped out away from the grip, and goes into all metal when pulled towards you. This helps keep it a little more out of your way when doing most hunting and wearing gloves and such. The tricky part is deciding where you want the switch. It should be close enough handing down from inside the end bar so as to easily reach with modest movement of your index finger, yet not so close that wearing gloves in the winter or such might switch it by accident.

You should buy the stereo cord I listed the part # for otherwise the internal wire colors of it might not match and you'll need to use a test light or ohm meter to determine which wires are which contacts on the plug.

As a side note, I just realized how I might save even further weight. They do make carbon fiber end bars. That would also be less cold on your hand in the winter. Wonder how expensive they are. Will be checking into that along with a carbon fiber upper shaft.

THERE! If you want it any simpler I'll have to write it in crayon.

 

[synthnut]

Could I have that in Crayon please ? .....Lime Green if you would be so kind ...... Thank You !!.....

OK Critter ....NO MORE CAFFINATED COFFEE FOR YOU ......YOU'RE CUT OFF !!!....... Time to renew the script for Tranqulizers too !!....Quick Flipper !!!.....Go for .. ......

Seriously, Thanks for the simplified version ....Some of us are not as electronically savy as others on the forum .... Sometimes a little extra help is needed for us slow kids in the class teacher ...... We'll try hard to do better Mr Critterhunter , honest we will

 

[Critterhunter]

I was only joking. After all, you're the one who made the joke about remote PP switches for dummies or whatever. That's as basic as I can make it. I can't honestly describe it in any more simple of terms. If you have a specific question feel free to ask.

 

[synthnut]

I KNOW I KNOW >>>>>>> I'm only joking myself ..... I can dish it out , but I can take it too !!......Jim

 

[Critterhunter]

Somebody contacted me with a few questions about doing my remote PP mod on the GT. While he had the control box apart he sent me some clearer pictures than the ones I posted in the mods forum where I had trouble with my camera focus, so I posted them there for people. I'll get to drawing an arrow and some other info in the pics to show exactly what post to cut on the switch and what wires go to what, though I've explained that pretty much in the info above. Thanks again for taking those pics.

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1141218,page=7

 

[Critterhunter]

Just added a modified picture with text and arrows to show exactly what to do to wire a stereo jack up to the stock GT switch. Details/pic in mod forum.

 

[Critterhunter]

Somebody just did the pinpoint mod in the mods forum as well as built a light weight shaft. Excellent job!

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1141218,page=7

 

[Critterhunter]

Got some pics of the GT control box taken apart that somebody gave me a while back. I had taken pictures of my GT when apart while figuring out doing a remote PP mod on it and posting a tutorial/pictorial on that. The old remote PP mods floating around on the web for older Sovereigns won't work with the GT due to it's more complicated switch configurations that work in conjunction with each other, so I wanted to figure out the easiest/best way to do one and then post a clear pictorial on that for others.

The pics should also be helpful for those who need to see what their GT looks like taken apart for other reasons. Keep in mind taking apart your GT will void it's warranty! The last pic (next post) is one I edited with text to show the simple PP mod.

If you read page 1 of this thread you'll see that when unplugged from the stereo jack installed on the back of the GT, the stock switches work as stock. AND, when the remote PP is plugged in the stock switches STILL work as stock. It's just that when the remote PP switch is thrown a certain way it will over ride whatever the disc iron mask on/disc iron mask off/all metal switch is set to, causing the machine to think it's been thrown to the All Metal position, and thus turning control over to whichever mode you have the other stock GT switch set at (PP mode, All Metal Fixed, All Metal Track).

This is perfect flexibility the way I have this configured to work with the GT, because now you can set the disc switch to whatever mode you want, and then the all metal switch to whatever you want, and toggle between those two modes by simply flipping your remote PP switch into one of two positions. Complete flexibility with whatever modes you want to use, and most importantly as said the stock switches still retain their function regardless of whether the remote PP switch is plugged into the stereo jack or not. For instance, you could set your all metal switch on the GT to all metal track, and then your discrimination mode to Iron Mask ON, and then toggle between those by throwing the PP switch back and fourth.

Most people of course will just want to toggle between disc iron mask ON and PP mode. Ironically though, I rarely use the remote PP switch these days, as I prefer to PP in discrimination mode. It did come in handy hunting the beach today though when targets were scarce. I hunted in PP mode for more depth (which I'm not seeing yet) and then would flip over to discriminate iron mask ON mode to reverse discriminate/check the target. I'm not sure PP is getting me more depth but on some deep stuff it did tip me off to a potential target easier, and a few of those I couldn't hear in discriminate unless I was right over them with the center of the coil as they were at the outer fringes of depth.

Kind'a fun actually. I plan to try it more when there is little iron at the beach or a site and targets are scarce and see if it does get deeper for me. Will also try to flip between all metal Fixed and discriminate Iron Mask On and see if one is deeper or not some day.

Incidentally, anybody know if All Metal Fixed will HOLD it's ground balance even when you flip over to disc and then come back to the All Metal Fixed mode? If I have to set the ground balance needed for All Metal every time I flip to it then I might as well use tracking mode at the cost of some depth perhaps (tracking can track out deep targets on any machine). It would be a major PITA to have to re-ground balance All Metal Fixed mode every time I switched between it and disc.

For any newbies, discriminate and PP modes do NOT require you set set a ground balance. Disc uses it's own unique way to ignore the ground signal (and it ain't auto tracking like on other machines, and PP mode is a form of all metal that doesn't use a ground balance. Only All Metal Fixed needs the ground balance set when using that, and you do that by either sweeping around for a bit in tracking mode or just pumping the coil in a clean place up and down until the threshold stays even.

Either way, back to the pics should somebody need to dig into their GT when it's no longer under warranty. Use at your own risk, and don't blame me if you mess up your machine. All I can say is my GT has been working flawlessly for a few years with my remote PP mod.

The last picture in these series of GT internals is one I edited with some text to show the simple modifications to one switch and installing a stereo jack jack for a remote PP switch to plug into...

 

[Critterhunter]

OK for some odd reason my computer is not letting me upload the rest of the pics. I'll figure out what's going on later and post the rest. It's got me pretty frustrated right now so I don't want to deal with it. Can't understand why it let me upload one and the rest it won't, and they aren't too big for FIndmall either. Same size pics. Just my computer keeps telling me they aren't pic files when I just looked at the stupid things. Either way, don't want to figure it out right now. By tomorrow I'll have them up. The last pic is vitial as it's get some text and lines in it I drew to make the simple mods for the remote PP switch crystal clear for most people.