Question? Has anyone here found a gold coin?

[marcomo]

Finally scratched the silver dollar off my detecting finds bucket list a couple months ago, but no gold coin yet for me.

Tom in CA is right about the $5 gold half eagle being the most circulated denomination, followed by the $2.50 quarter eagle which was the most widely circulated denomination in the earlier part of the 19th century.

Larger denominations when they did circulate, usually did so between banks. That's why you see such a large percentage of high grade $10 eagle and $20 double eagles in the numismatic market and so few found by detectorists.

According to Tom Dankowski, who has studied gold coin circulation patterns extensively, the #1 place to find gold coins is old military outposts. That's because years ago members of the military were paid "in specie"...enlisted men paid in silver coin and officers paid in gold coin.

CA Toms success proves that western stage stops are a great place to find gold coins too.

 

[Harborchick14]

If the fort you mentioned is still US Gov't property, it should be named. If it was privatized when the gov't reduced its holding, then that's another story. It is consistent with the history of this country: the Gold Rush of '49, that more gold coins are found out West rather than here in the East.

 

[wvrick]

I have never in my 45 yrs of detecting but I have been with my uncle when he found Spanish gold.

 

[Prep1957]

I really do not think there is more gold coins out west than were here around the Midwest,I live here in Illinois and just about every old farm family around here has some gold coin that was handed down that has been in family for years.I have myself have been handed silver and old gold coins after a love ones passing.I do not know why it is but a lot has been California gold.I have seen a lot of really rare pieces too after a friends dad passed away he knew I graded coins among the several hundred gold coins he had were 3 fifty(50) dollar gold coins from California.I asked if some of his family back in the day lived there he told me his family got these during civil war.I have heard that more than once from other people also civil war was very good to their family.But like you I have not found a gold in forty years of coin coin shooting.I have found several in butt plates of civil war and old rifles along with last will, and family picture, locks of hair,wedding ring one time.I knew an old gun smith said he made more pulling butt plates than fixing guns.I carry my Garrett pin-pointer and scan old books at sales have done very good lately put on vibrate,tape it out of site up wrist.I have a friend does not like detecting but loves digging outhouses for bottles he has found several gold coins plus many nice silver ones just with his eyes digging.Just around Chicago area.

 

[ironsight]

Been thinking on this 'migration theory' to parts out West as to why more gold coins are found out West. Whats somewhat baffling is the folks that wagoned to the Western States started from the Eastern States. It would seem these pioneers would also lose gold coins just as easily at the many Eastern stage, etc. stops also.

Having said that, probably most or all of those old Eastern stage stops were in towns where a dropped coin could be easily eye-balled by passer's-by. I've been at a couple stage coach stops out West namely the Ca. desert and they were in isolated remote areas even today.
In addition, the vast majority of all those old Eastern stage sites are paved-over big cities now.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Iron-sight, as you know, all the migration up through the turn-of-century was FROM the east, headed TO the west. So I used to have a theory that the reason for more gold coins here, was d/t the following:

a) It's a fact that gold coins were for larger purchases, and moving larger amounts of $$. For example, when you got ready to plunk down a downpayment on land or cattle or whatever. Thus not like pennies, nickels, dimes, gold coins would only be taken out for larger transactions (in much the same fashion that ..... odds are ..... you don't have $100 cash in your pocket right now).

b) And one of the reasons for taking them out of your lifesavings to use, was to TRANSPORT them, when making a permanent move from one location, to another. Yes I know that seems silly today, because we just use credit cards, or withdraw at a bank in another state upon arriving, etc.... No more need to "carry one's wealth" physically with him, when making a long-distance move. BUT BACK THEN, when you got ready to up and move, then yes, that would be an occasion to have your savings in gold coins with you.

c) And think of it: If you were travelling by stage, or wagon train, or around-the-horn on ship to get to CA, then CARGO SPACE WOULD BE AT A PREMIUM. So why take 100 large cents, when you can take a single silver dollar ? Or why take 20 halves, when you can take a single $5 gold? Etc... (hence we get very few large cents out here).

d) Thus it seemed to make sense that the gold coins arriving here (at least the ones found around traveller stops, and destination arrivals) would be because of the phenomenom of migration and bringing one's wealth.

However, my theory sort of fell apart, the more gold coins I got. I mean, yes it explained a few (that were indeed east coast mints, found at locations where emigrant arrivals would be stopping at). But they ALSO showed up several times after beach storms (which would presumably be recreational beach-goer losses). And they also are found here with S mints (thus dashing the east to west migration theory). Thus bottom line is, the east-to-west migration theory only hold limited water. Doh!

Also the notion that more are found here d/t the gold rush, also doesn't hold water. Because if you look at the mintage statistics of philly, ... they put out as many as SF did. Doh!

Thus this leads me to my final theory of why we find more out west: Because we are superior hunters, more skilled at hunting than you east coast guys! neener neener neener (just kidding, I dunno)

 

[ironsight]

Yeah Tom, the E to W migration theory seems to account for some of the gold coins found out West.

But for typical pioneers who migrated from say New York, just where and when would they turn their life savings into gold coinage. It would make some sense that it would be converted right at their local bank before starting their long journey to the Western States. So why would gold coins not be dropped in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, etc.? My theory is they were dropped or lost along the way in the Eastern States also.

As i previously mentioned, the Eastern States were basically more settled than the Western States. Stage stops were likely in towns where dropped or lost coins could easily be found by town folk. Most lost gold coins still in the ground in the Eastern States are now buried beneath concrete, asphalt, etc. Most of those old Eastern wagon trails are now modern roads unlike out West. Some remnants of those old Western wagon trails and cattle drive routes are still there in the remote areas.

Another possible reason more gold coins are found in Ca. might be due to the overnight wealth from the gold strikes. From what i understand, SanFran was a major hub supplying the gold fields with various goods. Only gold accepted for those gold field goods? Gold could of been the primary or common method of commerce in certain Ca. areas? Back East silver coinage was likely the common method of commerce.

It could be as simple as a 'culture of gold' that developed and persisted over the years in certain areas of Ca. where people demanded and carried more gold coinage compared to Eastern folks.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... It would make some sense that it would be converted right at their local bank before starting their long journey to the Western States. So why would gold coins not be dropped in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, etc.? My theory is they were dropped or lost along the way in the Eastern States also.....

Good point. My theory of prepation for permanent move (and thus carry your wealth) falls apart with what you're saying. Because, yes, logically those travellers had a long portion of their travel (which could take months BTW to traverse the entire USA) on BOTH sides of the Mississippi. There would have been JUST as many stops (every 20 or 25 miles they could make in a day's travel) in eastern states, just as they'd be stopping upon arrival in CA. Thus yes, you have just destructed my theory of east to west migration

.... the Eastern States were basically more settled than the Western States. Stage stops were likely in towns where dropped or lost coins could easily be found by town folk. Most lost gold coins still in the ground in the Eastern States are now buried beneath concrete, asphalt, etc. Most of those old Eastern wagon trails are now modern roads unlike out West. Some remnants of those old Western wagon trails and cattle drive routes are still there in the remote areas.....

Well, yes, on the one hand, there's lots more "open forests" and stereotypical "ghost towns" out here. Ie.: vast areas of nothing-ness. Contrast to the east coast, where ..... no matter where you are, you are standing on someone's land, or within walking distance of the nearest road or house, etc..... For example, a friend of mine moved here from Virginia to CA, in the mid 1970s. And one of the things that immediately struck him, was that when you exit one city, there's just miles of "nothing" (farm land, cow pasture, hills, etc...) till you get to the next city/town. Contrast to where he was in Virginia, it seemed that once you left a cities limits, there was STILL dotted rural homes everywhere. And not much great distances *between* cities, etc.... Thus yes, the demographics and geography is different (barring very dense areas of southern CA, Sacramento, SF bay area, etc....).

HOWEVER, I beg to differ with you on this having any sort of impact on potential for finding gold coins. Because think of it: On the east coast, while it's true that a lot of history is "under asphalt", yet .... There is STILL no shortage of old coins being found. Eg.: large cents, colonial coppers, busts, seateds, barbers, CW stuff, etc... Right ? So your theory would only be true, if THOSE coins too were equally as elusive. But they're not. They may not be turning up at stereotypical "stage stop" type sites (which could, as you say, be under the town center now). But still, you have no shortage of cellar holes, old town commons (extremely old parks), old-town demolition sites, yards of homes that date to the early 1800's, and so forth.

So again, I'm gonna have to say that the reason for the disparity is, that we west coast hunters are simply more skilled than you guys

 

[ironsight]

........HOWEVER, I beg to differ with you on this having any sort of impact on potential for finding gold coins. Because think of it: On the east coast, while it's true that a lot of history is "under asphalt", yet .... There is STILL no shortage of old coins being found. Eg.: large cents, colonial coppers, busts, seateds, barbers, CW stuff, etc... Right ? So your theory would only be true, if THOSE coins too were equally as elusive. But they're not. They may not be turning up at stereotypical "stage stop" type sites (which could, as you say, be under the town center now). But still, you have no shortage of cellar holes, old town commons (extremely old parks), old-town demolition sites, yards of homes that date to the early 1800's, and so forth.
So again, I'm gonna have to say that the reason for the disparity is, that we west coast hunters are simply more skilled than you guys

Again, one of my theories on why basically 'only' old coins including silver coins are found in the Eastern States while gold coins can be found in California or some other Western States with rich gold mines is:

Another possible reason more gold coins are found in Ca. might be due to the overnight wealth from the gold strikes. From what i understand, SanFran was a major hub supplying the gold fields with various goods. Only gold accepted for those gold field goods? Gold could of been the primary or common method of commerce in certain Ca. areas? Back East silver coinage was likely the common method of commerce.

It could be as simple as a 'culture of gold' that developed and persisted over the years in certain areas of Ca. where people demanded and carried more gold coinage compared to Eastern folks.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

" Another possible reason more gold coins are found in Ca. might be due to the overnight wealth from the gold strikes. From what i understand, SanFran was a major hub supplying the gold fields with various goods. Only gold accepted for those gold field goods? Gold could of been the primary or common method of commerce in certain Ca. areas? Back East silver coinage was likely the common method of commerce.

It could be as simple as a 'culture of gold' that developed and persisted over the years in certain areas of Ca. where people demanded and carried more gold coinage compared to Eastern folks. "

I'm not so sure that only gold coins were circulating in gold rush era sites, any-more-so than elsewhere of that period. They find silver coins, reales, etc... there in gold rush sites too. Yes, some gold coins up there, but no different or "more likely" than along the coast, at sites that had nothing to do with the gold rush. I am 3+ hrs. from the gold rush sierra nevadas. I'm along the coast, south San Jose-ish. And the ones I've found (14 so far) are not from anything to do with the gold rush, so far as I can tell. 5 of them were of that era (1830s to 1850s, at sites that had activity in those eras). But the others are 1880s to the newest: a 1914. And 2 of those that I acknowledge were of the "gold rush" era, they came from locations of east to west migration, and ....... fittingly, were not S mints (hence had "come from the east").

So while your theory is interesting, it's only a theory. I don't know of any data/history that shows gold coins were more the "method of commerce" here, than versus eastern states. I mean, heck, they minted a boatload out there in Philly, didn't they ?

 

[ironsight]

OK, i'll beat a dead horse here.
Back to the migration theory which might explain the Philadelphia and other Eastern mint thing . Lets suppose only an insignificant handful of pioneers or gold seekers lost or spent gold coins 'during' their journey to Ca.
The vast majority still had their life savings in gold coinage intact when they arrived in Ca. Now they had to either spend it, deposit it, hoard it for a future land purchase, cabin building, livestock, supplies, etc. In other words gold coinage minted in the East 'left' the East in large quantities and ended up circulating in the West.

After the '49 Ca. gold strikes the population of Ca. skyrocketed exponentially composed primarily of Easterners. According to some estimates, news of the gold strike brought as many as 300,000 people into the State as a result of those gold strikes. San Fransisco alone increased its population from 200 in 1846 to a boom town of 36,000 by 1852.
Thats a lot of commerce all of a sudden.... building structures, supply selling, etc.
During the hay days of the gold strike, payment for goods and services was primarily gold dust or nuggets. Every selling establishment had gold weighing scales for purchase payment.
My theory is that this somewhat awkward method of payment evolved to gold coins considering so many gold coins now available in the area. The unfortunate gold miners who did not strike it rich were forced to use their 'Eastern minted migrated' gold coinage for supplies.
This 'culture' of gold could have persisted for a decades in some areas of Ca. and other Western State areas. If true, that meant a lot of gold coins in pockets subject to dropping.

No doubt many, most or possibly all of those Eastern gold seekers brought gold coins with them that were minted in the East. As the Easterners migrated to Ca. so did Philidelphia minted gold coinage migrate from East to West also. Back in the 'settled' East, the demand for gold coinage could of been comparatively negligable as silver and copper coinage was the main currency.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.....This 'culture' of gold could have persisted for a decades in some areas of Ca. and other Western State areas. ....

I was about to counter that the frontier "boom town" type culture you speak of, would not account for those gold coins I've found dated from the 1870s to 1890s (or the one from 1914). But I see that you covered/anticipated that angle, by suggesting that the mindset/culture persisted for decades after the gold rush.

It's all an interesting theory.

I've seen old CA records of real-estate transactions, that date to the 1860s & 70s. And in them, there is frequently mention made of the down-payments (or payments in full) being made in "$200 downpyament in gold coins". (or whatever). This is what leads me to believe that gold coins were brought out for larger purposes. Whereas pennies/dimes, etc... are what you carried in your pocket.

I heard that a loggers or miner pay, in the 1870s & 1880s, might have been $5 p/week, plus room & board. So if that miner were paid in a $5 gold coin (although he could have been paid in silver coins too I suppose), then to have carried that entire amount around with you, would be like you or I carrying $300 to $500 around with us. Not impossible, but not likely. We ordinarily put in the bank (or stash at home or whatever), and then carry smaller amounts with us for routine ordinary purposes.

Here's a pix of my 14 gold coins.

 

[ironsight]

Hey Tom, man i never get tired of looking at all that yella gold!

One other thing i forgot to mention is that during the gold rush days, ordinary goods/food/supplies were sold at extreme highly inflated prices. This could of also loosened up some of those pocketed migrated gold coins for those now expensive purchases.

I'd say all this circumstantial evidence is sort of proof in the pudding.
Scarce gold coins found East of the Mississippi but with tons of silver coins found.
On the other hand, many more gold coins found in the West especially Ca.as the pic of your gold coins shows.

Conclusive proof? Nope.... i agree, just all theories at this point.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Yeah, who knows ? I'm actually about 2.5 hrs. from the gold rush portion of CA. Ie.: the foothills of the Sierra Nevadas. So I rarely get over there to hunt. But those that do are not finding scores of gold coins. I mean, yes, a couple got into a single spot (broke open saddle bag?) that turned up quite a few in a single area. Not sure whether that counts as individual circulated "fumble fingers" losses though. If you relegate the question to JUST single coin-at-a-time (and disclude caches, or fluke 10 in one spot type things), then the gold rush country is no more prolific for gold coins than elsewhere . Yes, some guys who hunt exclusively gold rush tent city miner camp spots do indeed have 1, 2, 3, or 4 gold coins. But so too do some guys along the coast have just as many, or more.

But it's a hard statistic to pin down though. Because naturally the type hardcore relic-mindset guy who is "working gold rush sites", will be working an area that could be exclusively 1849 to 1860-ish date-wise. So go figure, if someone has poured their heart & soul into pioneer wild-west sites like this, well go figure: he's bound to come across a gold coin now and then. But so too does the guy working old town tearouts, emigrant in-coming sites, and stage stop sites elsewhere in CA, that is exclusively of that period, ALSO find gold coins.

So the fact of the concentration of date range has a lot of do with it.

Note: Very few gold coins have turned up from the Spanish & Mexican period (ie.: mission and rancho period). A few escudos, but .... just a few state wide.

 

[ironsight]

I'd bet any gold coins brought to the Ca. gold fields got spent real quick!

Got this info regarding the inflated price of goods during the Ca. gold rush from a california.parks.gov website.
The first column was the actual price of these goods in 1851 gold field areas. The second column is the equivalent dollars today adjusted for inflation over the years.

Price in 1851----------------------Price in today's dollars

butter--$20 lb.-----------------------------$559.63 lb.
eggs-----$3 ea.-----------------------------$83.94 ea.
cheese$25 lb.----------------------------$699.53 lb.
shovel-$36 ea.--------------------------$1007.33 ea.

Can't imagine paying $560 for a pound of butter or over a $1000 for a shovel.

 

[Hardrock65]

Maybe they aint sayin?

 

[skookum]

Hi,
I am well over 50 years old now and have been metal detecting since I was 15 - with long breaks in between (work, family).
I have yet to find a gold coin - altough I have found gold jewellery.
And almost all gold jewellery was found on golf courses in Victoria, B.C. / Canada where I used to caddy and go snorkeling the water holes for golf balls when I was in Junior High School.
In exchange for the golf balls retrieved I was granted permission to metal detect - I thought that was a fair deal back then.
Some of the gold jewellery was claimed by the rightful owners who usually gave a good tip - some was never claimed and I could keep it if not claimed within 3 months.
So to sum it up : I have actually given up on finding gold coins - but who knows what the future has to offer.

hh
skookum

 

[woodchiphustler]

Here is my last one. Dug in lower Delaware at an old mill site. I have dug 2 others Relic Hunting. One in Poolesville Md. And one at the Mass.Camp in southern Md.

 

[ironsight]

Here is my last one. Dug in lower Delaware at an old mill site. I have dug 2 others Relic Hunting. One in Poolesville Md. And one at the Mass.Camp in southern Md.

Thats a nice one!

Digging 3 of them sort of proves gold coins are also to be found East of the Mississippi. Gives some of us some hope!