question about nel coils

[7centsworth]

I have to apologize to Longhair. I did not relive this was an old thread. I jumped the gun for not reason. I sincerely apologize to longhair and the rest in here for saying what I did when this was an old thread. I know longhair has thick skin but I owe an apology.

 

[Odanscoils]

And where do those coils come from? I'll give you a hint, it's the most corrupt country in Europe and we're sending them billions of our tax dollars.

Yes that is the Sad part.

 

[Odanscoils]

We all know that the Nel coils are as good or better than any minelab coil. We can talk about them on her now. Thank goodness. Let’s admit they are good. And yes maybe not authorized by minelab. Let me see you only by car parts at your dealer. Let me know how that works out for you. I get sick of the bashing a coil because of affiliation with minelab. I know and many know you use to use Nel coils and liked them Longhair. I have seen your older post on other forums. I use to mainly use Nel coils on my xterra. They are great. And so are coiltek and minelab. If this post is out of line delete it. But I think many are sick of it. Admin told me months ago that we could talk about Nel coils on here since minelab is not a sponsor. I like minelab and still use one. And I like you Longhair but I do not like the always shutting down a great coil. The new minelabs I don’t think need a different coil at least my box doesn’t. It is great the way it is except the build quality on the coil ears.

I thought this was a metal detecting forum.
How is talking about anything detecting off limits ?
Shouldn't be.
Only thing I've been advised of is not posting sellers sites here not on a list.
And I've yet to see that complete list.

 

[Odanscoils]

Okay, I'm going to try to explain it all one more time, and hopefully everyone will understand.

I have no problem with NEL making coils for a variety of metal detectors. Most coils are nothing all that special, as they are basically just antennas. However, Minelab, with the Xterra line, opened up a new world of all digital detectors, and the coils employed are no longer simple copper windings inside an epoxy filled plastic housing. The coils now contain proprietary technology that allow the coils to communicate in a two-way information flow with the control box.

My beef with NEL is an ethical one as much as anything. They stole the technology via dissection & reverse engineering. It is intellectual theft! Though to a lesser degree, it's not that different than when the Chinese stole U.S. guided missile technology back when Clinton was POTUS. Was that okay? How about you put yourself in Minelab's position for a minute. How would you like to spend thousands and thousands of dollars hiring top physicists and developing new technology only to have thieves capitalize off your time, money, and effort investment?

Beyond that, there is the performance aspect. While I can't be too specific due to NDA, I can assure you that NEL does NOT have access to programming information necessary for their coils to operate at peak performance. I am aware of at least one mistake that Minelab made that they had to patch, and without the closely guarded details of that anomaly it is impossible to produce optimally performing coils. Coiltek wasn't even aware of it until one batch of coils had been sent out to field testers that we ended up rejecting due to the issue.

Then add to that that Minelab even went so far as to make changes in their firmware specifically to thwart the use of unauthorized coils. To counter that move by Minelab the thieves had to come up with a button pushing sequence on startup to FORCE the control box to accept it. Please explain how this is a good idea, and/or how it makes for a coil that is just as good or better than the authorized coils available......I'll wait.

Back before Coiltek was given the green light to develop and produce Xterra coils and we only had 7 Minelab coils to choose from, I felt a lot like you do. But, Randy made me see the truth of the matter, we (many of us) pressured Minelab to expand the line of available coils, and he got me directly involved with the whole process. We helped bring new coils to the market, and they are superior!
It was Randy's policy to disallow discussion of clandestine coils (with Guv's approval), and I maintain that policy, because like Randy I have no desire to reward thieves.

I understand what your saying.
Though if minelab can't make better coils.
And that certainly seems to be the case.
Then They are leaving the market open for someone else to do it Better.
Me. I'm still waiting for the update promised on the Manticore. Though I've yet to master it. I'm loving it.
Confuzed. Me too.

 

[Odanscoils]

I bet that if it were your time and money involved with its development you would see things differently.

This is absolutely NOT true! Believe it or not, there is no such thing as an enforceable international patent. The U.S. does recognize and support foreign patents, but doesn't enforce them, and leave the process of locating offenders, filing complaints, and bringing law suits up to the plaintiff. That means that Minelab would have to find and sue each seller of clandestine coils itself, which for a company located in Australia is essentially cost prohibitive. That is the only reason that NEL (and others) got away with pirating Minelab's technology.

I don't know about how you feel about it, but I think more than enough of my money is going to Ukraine against my will already. I'm not going to even suggest that anyone should send them any more. The fact is that Ukraine is a den of thieves and has been for 100 years. There are likely more counterfeiters and hackers working out of that one country than in all of China.

Knowing minelabs past on suing infringement.
I'm surprised they haven't this time. Hmmm

 

[Old Longhair]

Knowing minelabs past on suing infringement.
I'm surprised they haven't this time. Hmmm

It's simple. Minelab can't sue NEL/MARS/CORS in Ukraine because the Ukraine government doesn't support foreign patent laws. NEL also doesn't sell strictly through distributorships and will sell directly to anyone who wishes to order from them, meaning that Minelab would literally have to find and sue each and every person selling their stolen technology, and that is virtually impossible.
How many Chinese counterfeiters has Minelab successfully sued and shut down? I'll wait.....

All that Minelab can really do is educate their buyers about the counterfeiters. That they have done to the extent that they are able, but people still fall for the scams and Minelab can't protect you from yourself.

 

[GaryB]

What's up with people here? Staff has said the topic is verboten yet some want to argue about it. Let it go.

 

[Old Longhair]

I think that everything that needed to be said has been. So, I'm putting this subject to bed.
If anyone has more to say, feel free to contact me via PM.