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post office property
- Thread starter pointer80
- Start date
Larry (IL)
Well-known member
I agree.....just ask for permission, like all other property you do not own. I have never been denied permission at the small town PO's I have hunted.
I've hunted post office property, and never had a problem. But then again, maybe I didn't ask enough people, far enough up the chain of command? In fact, it never even occured to me that "permission" was needed to begin with, if it's a public post office.
Ie.: in the same way you wouldn't need to ask at a park or whatever, would you? And no, I would, of course, separate out obvious historical monuments and sacred sites like the White house lawn (sheesk, how does that compare with a post office lawn??)
Unless it's specifically disallowed at some public spot, or you are being some sort of nuisance in some other way (leaving a mess?), then I don't know why you'd "need permission". Naturally, just like any place, to keep "busy bodies" from being nosy, I would go at off-hours, like after 5pm, or on weekends, etc.... That's not to say it's because something is wrong, but this is just the stance I take anywhere, since, let's face it, we're in an odd-ball hobby that draws lookie-lous. And no, you're not going to face fines, go to jail, face confiscations, etc.... I always crack up when someone cites this as a fear to provoke you to "ask permission" for every sandbox you come to. When you ask them to provide examples of someone incurring these types of things, at innoccuous public places, there seems to be no examples forthcoming. I suspect that if someone did get something more than a "scram", and did face something else, he was probably someone who couldnt' take a warning, was night-sneaking historic monuments or posted sites or something.
Ie.: in the same way you wouldn't need to ask at a park or whatever, would you? And no, I would, of course, separate out obvious historical monuments and sacred sites like the White house lawn (sheesk, how does that compare with a post office lawn??)
Unless it's specifically disallowed at some public spot, or you are being some sort of nuisance in some other way (leaving a mess?), then I don't know why you'd "need permission". Naturally, just like any place, to keep "busy bodies" from being nosy, I would go at off-hours, like after 5pm, or on weekends, etc.... That's not to say it's because something is wrong, but this is just the stance I take anywhere, since, let's face it, we're in an odd-ball hobby that draws lookie-lous. And no, you're not going to face fines, go to jail, face confiscations, etc.... I always crack up when someone cites this as a fear to provoke you to "ask permission" for every sandbox you come to. When you ask them to provide examples of someone incurring these types of things, at innoccuous public places, there seems to be no examples forthcoming. I suspect that if someone did get something more than a "scram", and did face something else, he was probably someone who couldnt' take a warning, was night-sneaking historic monuments or posted sites or something.
As always when these issues come up, Tom states good ol' common sense in a brilliantly written way.
Basically, asking permission when permission is not necessary is counter-productive.
Another important part of what Tom is saying is to be discreet in public places.
Don't detect at a post office property at 11 AM on Saturday, or anytime it's open.
Don't detect at a public school during school hours, or anytime the grounds are in use.
Stay outside the perimeter of activities at a park.
If you get enough looky-loos, sooner or later you're going to get someone who's going to say or think, "I don't think that's allowed here" or "I don't think that should be allowed here."
If that person presses the issue, then you are likely to be considered a distraction from the intended usage of the grounds. Regardless of legality. Regardless of any unnecessary permission granted.
I remember reading on a forum some time back about some fool who was hunting "sidewalk strips" - the grassy area between the street and the sidewalk. He researched carefully and found that in that city the strips were city owned and there was no ordinance or any laws prohibiting him from hunting there. After he had been hunting a while he was confronted by a man who was irate about him detecting on what he considered his property. Instead of doing the common sense thing - politely leaving and going to another block - the detecting fool stood his ground and explained that he had every legal right to do what he was doing. The irate man called the police and the policeman suggested that the detectorist go to the park to hunt. The fool knew his rights and argued with the officer about his legal right to be there doing what he was doing. The officer responded that if he didn't leave he would arrest him for being a public nuisance. The post ended with the fool ranting and wondering about what legal recourse he had. How much you want to bet that town has an ordinance against detecting sidewalk strips now?
Basically, asking permission when permission is not necessary is counter-productive.
Another important part of what Tom is saying is to be discreet in public places.
Don't detect at a post office property at 11 AM on Saturday, or anytime it's open.
Don't detect at a public school during school hours, or anytime the grounds are in use.
Stay outside the perimeter of activities at a park.
If you get enough looky-loos, sooner or later you're going to get someone who's going to say or think, "I don't think that's allowed here" or "I don't think that should be allowed here."
If that person presses the issue, then you are likely to be considered a distraction from the intended usage of the grounds. Regardless of legality. Regardless of any unnecessary permission granted.
I remember reading on a forum some time back about some fool who was hunting "sidewalk strips" - the grassy area between the street and the sidewalk. He researched carefully and found that in that city the strips were city owned and there was no ordinance or any laws prohibiting him from hunting there. After he had been hunting a while he was confronted by a man who was irate about him detecting on what he considered his property. Instead of doing the common sense thing - politely leaving and going to another block - the detecting fool stood his ground and explained that he had every legal right to do what he was doing. The irate man called the police and the policeman suggested that the detectorist go to the park to hunt. The fool knew his rights and argued with the officer about his legal right to be there doing what he was doing. The officer responded that if he didn't leave he would arrest him for being a public nuisance. The post ended with the fool ranting and wondering about what legal recourse he had. How much you want to bet that town has an ordinance against detecting sidewalk strips now?
Very well said Tom and Marcoma. I hate to say it but sometimes it's better to just detect it in a very respectfull way and take your chance's on public or city or goverment property. I know I'm very respectful of any property and I'm not going to leave no damage. Besides the post office comes on my property six days a week
. As far as the white house I do wonder what you would find? Oh my luck Bush or Clinton allready hit with a metal detector
. As far as the white house I do wonder what you would find? Oh my luck Bush or Clinton allready hit with a metal detectorTom_in_CA said:
So you're saying you can detected every National Park you entered without asking permission? Quite a difference between State and Federal grounds which was the point I was making. LOL....the WH is "sacred" ground?
Just because something isn't "posted", doesn't mean it's allowed. I don't need to post "no trespassing" signs on my property to run-off uninvited "guests" .....been there done that.
Smitty
Smitty, yes I see your point but, I guess what I'm talking mostly about is if I see a big tree in a little section of grass or little strip next to the local post office in my own home town were people actually for the most part know me then I'm not going to be afraid to get out and do a short hunt. I hunt in my town and the police go by and wave to me. I'm not talking about going to washington dc and hunting there federal property. I know my area enough that if they had a problem with it they would just tell me they would rather me not hunt and I would say ok thanks anyway. Of course I have not had terrorist attacks in my city and such either. I think as far as national parks or any secured fed. property goes common sense goes a long way! Thank you.
Smitty,
If I am not mistaken, National Parks have a specific prohibition on metal detecting, right? And to my knowledge, a post office lawn is not a National Park. Therefore perhaps has no such minutia? Hmmmm. Just because the same entity (the Fed. in this case) controls each, I don't think that means that park rules apply to lawns in front of post offices, anymore than post office rules apply to fed. parks, eh? Remember, even within the same entity, rules can vary. For example: one state park might allow dogs off-leash, while another requires leashes. One might allow 4-wheel off-roading, while another doesn't. And perhaps fireworks are forbidden in all of them, etc.... So in the same way, just because fed. parks might have a no-detecting rules, doesn't mean that all fed. land is off-limits to detecting. It's just the fed parks, as a single entity within the fed. system, not every single fed. property, IMHO.
No, a place need not be "posted" to have a rule in effect, I grant you. Like, if you run around naked in the city park, I'm sure that you would be busted for public nudity, even though that specific ordinance is not posted at the park entrance. However, here's the catch: The ordinance (anti-nudity in that example's case) IS posted/written in the books, at city hall, right? So to carry that analogy to md'ing, if md'ing is specifically forbidden in the rules of a public property, then to me, it's not forbidden. If it's NOT specifically forbidden, then I do not consider any non-forbidden activities, to be things I would need to "ask" to do. Because if they're not forbidden, then ........ so be it. Same for post office property, in my book.
This might be one of those things where ....... so long as you're discreet, that probably no one really cares, or will ever have noticed. ie.: Sometimes no one cares UNTIL you ask. For example: I'm sure if you waltzed in and asked a postal clerk, they might say "no". So too would they say "no" if you asked permission to stand in front of the office, with peanut butter spread on your head, and dance the jig (they'd say you need a parade permit, perhaps).
If I am not mistaken, National Parks have a specific prohibition on metal detecting, right? And to my knowledge, a post office lawn is not a National Park. Therefore perhaps has no such minutia? Hmmmm. Just because the same entity (the Fed. in this case) controls each, I don't think that means that park rules apply to lawns in front of post offices, anymore than post office rules apply to fed. parks, eh? Remember, even within the same entity, rules can vary. For example: one state park might allow dogs off-leash, while another requires leashes. One might allow 4-wheel off-roading, while another doesn't. And perhaps fireworks are forbidden in all of them, etc.... So in the same way, just because fed. parks might have a no-detecting rules, doesn't mean that all fed. land is off-limits to detecting. It's just the fed parks, as a single entity within the fed. system, not every single fed. property, IMHO.
No, a place need not be "posted" to have a rule in effect, I grant you. Like, if you run around naked in the city park, I'm sure that you would be busted for public nudity, even though that specific ordinance is not posted at the park entrance. However, here's the catch: The ordinance (anti-nudity in that example's case) IS posted/written in the books, at city hall, right? So to carry that analogy to md'ing, if md'ing is specifically forbidden in the rules of a public property, then to me, it's not forbidden. If it's NOT specifically forbidden, then I do not consider any non-forbidden activities, to be things I would need to "ask" to do. Because if they're not forbidden, then ........ so be it. Same for post office property, in my book.
This might be one of those things where ....... so long as you're discreet, that probably no one really cares, or will ever have noticed. ie.: Sometimes no one cares UNTIL you ask. For example: I'm sure if you waltzed in and asked a postal clerk, they might say "no". So too would they say "no" if you asked permission to stand in front of the office, with peanut butter spread on your head, and dance the jig (they'd say you need a parade permit, perhaps).
BusDigger said:Tom_in_CA said:
So you're saying you can detected every National Park you entered without asking permission? Quite a difference between State and Federal grounds which was the point I was making. LOL....the WH is "sacred" ground?
Just because something isn't "posted", doesn't mean it's allowed. I don't need to post "no trespassing" signs on my property to run-off uninvited "guests" .....been there done that.
Smitty
Actually yes you do
Law states you must post signs every so many feet.yes, I have heard this too (so that there's "teeth" to go after agricultural vegetable harveting theft, or poaching, or whatever.) The trespasser can merely say "I didn't know", if it wasn't posted of fenced, and thus, trespassing won't stick, unless posted.
Not sure about front yards immediately adjacent to a person's personal home though (as opposed to ag. lands, ranches, vacant lots, etc....). Perhaps the front yards of homes have some sort of separate implied law, that forbids someone from setting up a campfire there, etc... even though not posted.
But in any event, this is a side-issue of private property. The question in this post, was about a form of public property.
Not sure about front yards immediately adjacent to a person's personal home though (as opposed to ag. lands, ranches, vacant lots, etc....). Perhaps the front yards of homes have some sort of separate implied law, that forbids someone from setting up a campfire there, etc... even though not posted.
But in any event, this is a side-issue of private property. The question in this post, was about a form of public property.
pointer80 said:
It's easy for someone in another State to offer info which may not apply to another's situation, and may infact lead to arrest, prosecution, forfeiture of property, and incarceration. I would not take the chance, and you could be charged with something like defacing government property.
I don't think it's beneficial for someone to suggest you just "go for it" and hope for the best.....maybe you'll get by with it, maybe you won't. But those who don't, generally make the news.....which serves no positive purpose for a hobby which already has enough against it.
That's just my opinion, but laws are laws, and I'd strongly suggest asking what they are when unsure. And asking permission to use anothers property (regardless of who it belongs to) is only proper and the most ethical way there is. How would you like to come home to find a couple guys MDing in your back yard without asking permission?
Smitty