Part 1 evaluation of the Nokta FORS CoRe

[Monte]

Randy, I had this just about ready to post, and it was [size=small](typically)[/size] a bit lengthy as I had to reflect back on old posts about the Minelab X-Terra models. However, with me watching my two working fingers dance around the keyboard I had bumped the Num Lock key and in adding some characters, I lost the whole post and couldn't back up to it. So, for every reader's benefits, this re-do will might be more brief.

Monte

I read about your short affair with the X-Terra series about 7 years ago, back then you stated that the X-Terra replaced your main use MXT at the time.

It was over 9 years ago.

October, 2005 I got the Minelab X-Terra 30 and 50. The 30 I had to sell off because it had a glitch in design with the internally designed GB without any trimmer to tweak it was much too negative for the high NW Oregon mineralization.

The X-Terra 50 worked okay. Later I got the X-Terra 70 when it was introduced and I preferred it over the X-T 50 due to it being more functional, having a broader GB adjustment range for fine-tuning, and it was in a grey color and just looked better. It had Auto-Trac as well, which although isn't a function I usually use, it can be helpful at times, and many 'average' or 'traditional' Coin Hunters like to use Auto-Tracking.

I have a very bad back and, according to my doctor of 24 years, I was supposed to give up metal detecting as well as other sports activities that call for frequent repetitive twisting, bending, stooping and standing. I told her I never golfed, I don't bowl, and I will gladly pass on doing any kind of work which could cause me more pain or harm , but until I just physically can't handle it any more, I was not going to stop metal detecting. I had a medical profile even back 20 years ago that was written up to not use a weed eater, leaf blower, lawn mower, rake, shovel, broom or vacuum.

Since my back was bad then, over 9 years ago, and the original MXT was in place as my #1 all-purpose detector because it was very functional, had a quick automated GB, and since I hunt trashier sites most of the time, it had the excellent 6½" Concentric search coil to go with it. Still, my field-time was a little limited due to weight and balance, especially if hunting an open area with the stock 950 Concentric coil. I also had in my arsenal a White's M6, on the same 'S' rod configuration as my modified IDX Pro, both of which had 6½" Concentric coils mounted, and I had a lighter weight Tesoro Bandido II µMAX w/7" Concentric coil also to put to work.

The X-Terras were usable, lighter weight, and had a 9" spider coil with a rod-mount point that was better than White's 950. Plus, they offered manual GB that the MXT didn't. In addition, I could quickly access the automated GB of the X-Terra with my operating hand, whereas the MXT required me to pause, reach over with my left hand, bob the coil to get a GB and reach over again to toggle back to a 'Lock' setting to hold the GB. Thus the X-Terra models were more convenient, plus the X-Terra 70 had Auto-Tracking GB, Automated GB, and manual GB options.

So after the X-T 50, the 70 was used more because of the weight and configuration, but mainly in some of the more open and lower-target sites. Why? They didn't have a good smaller-size coil available, and as much as I and others mentioned it, we didn't see any quick action, nor hear much from the manufacturer on the Internet Forum. I found that using my little gold pickers the X-Terra, even with the higher 18.+ kHz frequency, wasn't as hot and responsive as my MXT.

I had no use for the lower frequency, and by 11/22/2006 I had parted with the X-Terra's and commented on a Findmall Forum that the mid-frequency was best, but they needed a good smaller-size search coil in that frequency. It had been over a year, we had heard smaller coils were coming out, but nothing. And no close manufacturer contact on the forums about any pertinent topics. I still used my M6 and others, and had an MXT in my arsenal, but not a regular traveler.

Then after the MXT Pro came about, it was your main use detector.

As for the MXT Pro [size=small](renamed the MXT All-Pro but without any circuitry changes at all)[/size], I had the opportunity to work with a prototype and noted some welcome changes. The finished product was even better than the prototype and it easily replaced the MXT in my personal arsenal and became my #1 all-purpose detector for its universal application abilities. The plus for me was being able to quickly access the Relic Mode's 2-Tone Audio, the Backlighted display for night hunting, and especially the Ground Grab touchpad to make very quick in-the-field GB updates without having to pause and reach over to the toggle for a 2-handed maneuver.

I have the 12" coil for the more limited use when searching for larger targets, but for day-to-day open area searches I didn't, and still don't, care for the 950 Concentric coil. I don't like the rod-mount point being too close to the rear of the coil, and even though the manufacturer gave us an improved detector, it didn't do anything for my back problems. So, the MXT Pro was my #1 most versatile detector, but I still had the Tesoro and M6 for 'quick-grab' use as they were lighter and handier to use and balanced better, especially with their 7" and 6½" coils.

The M6 is a very good detector and I know many who prefer them as their #1 day-to-day detector to use. I like it, but in March of 2010 I added a Teknetics Omega to my arsenal, also. Lighter weight, and I was drawn to the visual display information that provided a lot more than other detectors we had, to include showing the Ground Phase even in the Discriminate mode. Not a feature on the M6 and only available in the MXT/MXT Pro Prospecting mode. It had other very informative info and it was lighter weight and I used it more than my M6 ... in more open areas. The M6 had the 6½" Concentric coil which I preferred, but the Omega worked reasonably well in most sites with the 5" DD coil.

So why didn't the Omega reach top billing? Because I do a number of test using field case scenarios I have encountered, the most notable is my Nail Board Performance Test for searching in a dense iron nail environment. The Tesoro models and White's Classic series can pass the NBPT with a perfect 8-out-of-8 hits using a 6" or 7" Concentric coil, or the 4½" or 6½" Concentrics on the White's. The White's M6, MX5 and MXT/MXT Pro can also get at least 7-out-of-8 or 8-out-of-8 using their 6½" Concentric coils. In all cases, when in such a really nasty iron nail environment, you need to use a more methodical sweep speed. With the MXT 'family' of detectors you do have to learn to adapt to what I call "an after burp."

That is, if the Discrimination is adjusted to just barely reject the iron nails on the NBPT at about a 3" height, they are right on the edge of rejection and at times might be just a little 'ticky,' but nothing really bad. But when you place an Indian Head cent in the centered #1 position and sweep across the four directions, even with an efficient sweep speed to allow them to 'beep' and respond on the coin, they have an added little bleep or "after burp" after crossing the nail-coin-nail. Just something to learn, even though the work pretty well in a dense iron nail infestation.

With the entry of the MX5 over a year ago it brought us a favorable item for the MXT All-Pro [size=small](renamed about the same time)[/size], and that was the 9" 'spider' Concentric coil. Not only does it look better than the 950, the rod mount point is slightly closer to the center of the coil, and it balances much better on the MXT series of detectors. I made a few changes in my regular carry detectors.

The MXT All-Pro was still my preferred #1 all-purpose detector, and now it felt better after I moved the 9" spider coil from the MX5 to it, mainly for use in more open areas with less trash. The 6½" Concentric coil was/is a perfect match for the handy MX5 and, because I prefer the lighter weight and the handy one-handed operation of it over the M6, I sold my M6 and the MX5 went onto the back seat of my vehicle. Due to the smaller coil mounted and the lighter balance and 'feel' of the MX5, I usually grabbed it first and went to the MXT All-Pro when I wanted to use the larger 9" coil, or at other times if I just wanted a change-up.

Now it is the Nokta Fors CoRe that you are having a fling with, just wondering why and is the CoRe that much better than the MXT Pro? Signed.......Curious in Kansas

Randy

With the Nokta FORS Coin & Relic model, it isn't just a 'fling' but a determined appreciation for the detector. I had heard about the FORS CoRe and watched videos, but I have held similar 'packaged' detectors that didn't feel light or comfortable. Some had motion Discrimination, but didn't have a smaller search coils and, for me, that's a must-have!

While I have some DD coils among my detectors and accessories, most DD coils equipped detectors haven't worked that well for me. That has been partly the over-size DD coils, especially larger sizes that are round in shape, and most importantly, the detectors they were mounted to that didn't work that well for me and were most often too heavy and poorly balanced. Thus, I have preferred Concentric coils, most of the time, and especially on the White's models where I have worked DD's and Concentric coils side-by-side.

Well, the Nokta just drew my attention a great deal and with the Pro Package I would have a proper-size smaller DD coil to handle my trashier sites, and a narrower standard DD coil for day-to-day open-site hunting, so the best way to figure out just what it was capable of was to put it up against several detectors, most especially my then-current #1 All Purpose MXT All-Pro.

Fast forward .... It took me some extra time and extra side-by-side evaluation, but here are some of the reasons the Nokta won me over, easily.

1.. Fit & finish of the Nokta was simply excellent. I looked at the little things, such as search coil cable thickness, search coil connectors, rod-locks, mounting hardware for the coil-to-rod, and just a check on appearance ruggedness. The FORS CoRe got the check mark.


2.. Adjustment functions and features between the two models where I felt the Coin & Relic had a definite 'edge' over my MXT All-Pro were the following.:

a.. I like a backlight to see the display when it's dark, but I don't need it on all the time, or want to fumble for the touchpad in the dark to turn it on to see a read-out. The FORS Coin & Relic display is a smaller size housing with a large Target ID number that is easy for my old bad eyes to see, and the handgrip display backlight turns on automatically when you get a target response. You can adjust the brightness from '0' to' 20' and I have mine set for '10'.

b.. I like a good VCO audio response in a motion Disc. search mode, and the Coin & Relic has a more pronounced VCO audio in the Di2 and COG motion Discriminate modes, coupled with a lower non-VCO audio tone for most ferrous targets. The MXT Pro doesn't have that. The Coin & Relic also has a functional but less abrupt VCO audio in the Threshold-based All Metal mode.

c.. I have absolutely no use for the 7-Tone audio ID of the M6 and MXT Pro/All-Pro, or the 8-Tone audio option of the MX5, but I did like the more common-concept of the 3-Tone audio of the Di3 search mode.

d.. Instead of having two Discriminate modes that require a Disc. level control adjustment each time you switch mode, and needing to toggle to a Beach/Salt compensating mode and, again adjust the Discriminate setting, the Coin & Relic has 3 motion Disc. modes and you can set them up the way you want then so far as Discrimination and Sensitivity, and even the backlight brightness and it is all saved to memory. This makes it quicker to get into action.

e.. We all have different hearing abilities or impairments, and we can use a variety of headphones, and the CoRe allows us to select an audio Tone we find pleasant, selecting from '1' to '5' levels of tone pitch.

f.. White the FORS Coin & Relic has a very fast automated Ground Balance or an Auto-Tracking GB option, like the MXT group, it also has Manual Ground Balance that lets you fine-tune with 5-steps between each whole number.

g.. Instead of having to toggle to a different search mode just to see a Ground Phase read-out [size=small](on the MXT but not available on the M6 or MX5 or many competitors models)[/size], all you have to do is make a quick press-and-release of the GB button atop the handgrip by the TID display and it will show the current Ground Phase [size=small](whole number)[/size], and also turns on the display backlight for a brief period so you can check the Ground Phase in the dark.

h.. It does have an LED flashlight to shine at your coil after it is dark with a simple switch above the Pinpoint trigger.

I.. For those who need it, and I am getting close but still kind of had 'fun' with it, is a Vibrate function, with levels fro '0' [size=small](Off)[/size] to '5' that lets the operator feel the target response.


3.. Then it came to actual in-the-field performance as well as handling some of my test scenarios. Well, search coils are a very quality construction, ideal sizes, and work great. With the smaller coil mounted I can easily pass the NBPT and get 8-out-of-8 hits on an Indian Head cent or modern US clad dime [size=small](a little smaller)[/size] using the Di2 search mode and accepting Iron nails at an ID Mask setting of '10' but still hear the coin target audio. Or, by setting the ID Mask at '20' or '22' in both the DI2 and DI3 search modes to just reject the nails, but still get 8 hits. Hits that are as good or better than the MX5, M6 and MXT All-Pro, AND they don't have the same "after-burp."


4.. I searched a gridded area with an MXT All-Pro w/9" spider Concentric, and an XLT w/950 thin-style, and VX3 with the modern thicker-body 950 coils to locate and flag signals. All of these models use the same control housing and rod set-up, but differ in their Display housings and a little in weight. Not only was it interesting to do this and note signals with the three different performing White's models, but with my back, neck and shoulder aching it was time for another detector to try. What a relief!

I felt less weight and fatigue, and liked the balance of the Nokta FORS CoRe using the stock 7X11.[size=small]2[/size] DD coil, and switching to the smaller coil and working it against the MXT or MXT All-Pro with a small 6½" Concentric was even more impressive ... in favor of the Nokta detector.

Is an MXT All-Pro a bad detector? Nope, far from it. Did I dump it in a hurry? No, an MXT All-Pro will stay in my personal detector battery and I'll definitely grab it from time to time, also. As I frequently state, and have for over four decades, there is no such thing as a 'perfect' detector. I like to have the best on hand that I can, and regularly load and tote along my top 3 or 4. For now, the very functional and excellent performance Nokta FORS Coin & Relic is my all-purpose carry detector, and also, for now, my White's MX5 rides along on the back seat. It works well and is lighter and handy to grab.

Note, however, that if what we have been hearing about the coming Makro Racer is true, that it has the same features as the Nokta FORS CoRe, and if it comes close to it in overall field performance, then with that versatility and having the very informative display and one-handed control, I believe the Racer will move my MX5 from the back seat, and the Racer and Coin & Relic will get the bulk of my detecting time. I'll still have a Tesoro along or one other detector, but there are some of the reasons why I was 'converted' to this excellent Nokta Metal Detector Pro Package. It is just tough to beat!

Sorry this got lengthy, but you asked.

Monte

 

[OregonGregg]

with C. in your list. I do not like the tones as well. In the trashy sites I hunt even a two tone can get awfully busy/noisy. So how does the CoRe sound in two tone in a trasy site and with VCO throw in on top of that. Do you feel it might be too busy/noisy when hunting a trashy iron infested site ?

 

[Monte]

Five? What! Is this guy nuts! Where did he read that?

No, I don't think I'm nutty, just trying to answer Gregg's question about Tone ID in a way that might help others understand what they can do with the Nokta FORS CoRe because I find the Coin & Relic to be a very functional detector that can be set up for the way many people might think Tone ID could be used.

with C. in your list.

Which was:

c.. I have absolutely no use for the 7-Tone audio ID of the M6 and MXT Pro/All-Pro, or the 8-Tone audio
option of the MX5, but I did like the more common-concept of the 3-Tone audio of the Di3 search mode.​

I do not like the tones as well. In the trashy sites I hunt even a two tone can get awfully busy/noisy. So how does the CoRe sound in two tone in a trasy site and with VCO throw in on top of that.

To me, a 'multi-tone' can get too busy is trashy sites, and of course a lot depends upon what type of trash we are referring to as well as the density of trash, and we need to factor in what desired targets we are looking for. This references to the use of Tone ID we also have to accept the fact that too many people use it, or rely on it, with the expectation that it will be highly accurate and serve as an audio form of Target ID.

I do like some Tone ID options on certain detector models and my approach for using Tone ID will differ from many. For example, while I do not like the 7-Tone and 8-Tone audio options on the models mentioned above, I do like the full-range Tone ID on my White's XLT. Do I use it all the time? No, especially if a site is heavily littered. The reason I like it is because the XLT works very different from most of the detectors manufactured today, and I generally select it for 'cruising' use in wide-open grassy parks where there are not a lot of targets. Often, very few and they are quite spread apart. But I use the single-tone audio when hunting in trashier areas.

Other than the XLT, I haven't cared for too many Tone ID detector models. Perhaps one of the more popular designs has been a 3-Tone audio, and that idea has been around for a long time. It produces a lower tone for iron-range targets, a medium tone for mid-range targets such as foil, US nickels, pull-tabs, and on through aluminum screw caps or US Zinc cents, and a high-tone for higher-conductive targets such as US copper cents, dimes, quarters, etc. It is an 'OK' useable approach to provide a simple Tone ID option for most USA Coin & Jewelry Hunters.

There are three problems I have had with this type of 3-Tone ID design.

One is that most are a more 'processed' audio and the detector's response is more saturated, not modulated, and depth might be a little limited due to clipping filters whereby you have to have sufficient target signal in order to process it at all so it would be 'classified' in one of three categories. I prefer a good modulated audio most of the time and many of those models don't have it.

Two, I like to hunt old sites away from an urban environment most of the time in search of older coins, to include Indian Head cents, and where I can also find old trade tokens. Many early US Wheat-back cents and most Indian Head cents read lower, close to the same numeric TID of the modern US Zinc cent. When I was first evaluating my FORS Coin & Relic in the DI3 3-Tone mode, I used several tokens from 'At Domes' Place,' The Owl Cigar Store' and many others. Some of them did have a lower Target ID read-out, but many-to-most of the brass-type 'Good For' trade tokens rang in almost exactly as a Zinc cent, or ± just a little.

However, when I am Coin Hunting in an urban environment hitting tot-lots, grassy parks, sidewalk parkways, etc., I like to find all the coins I can and that includes the modern Zinc cents. Hey, they all add up, and like I stated, many early Lincoln/Wheat-Back cents from 1909 to about 1920, and most Indian Head cents also have a similar TID numeric read-out. Plus, I might recover a modern Zinc and resweeps the spot and find one or more others coins close or just a little deeper that the shallower coin [size=small](like a piece of trash)[/size] masked out. The other coin(s) could be a higher denomination coin, too.

With models that stuff the US Zinc cents into the mid-range tone that can delay my recovery efforts, if I take some time to ponder the visual TID display and re-sweep to try and figure out what it might be in that range. For any Relic Hunting or Coin Hunting we have to appreciate the quality of the audio Tone ID response a detector provides because with some you will find they are not very 'informative,' while other Tone ID designs tend to have their own 'quality' or 'character' about them when you sweep a target from two or more directions.

Third, and this is a strong point in how I determine how much I like or don't like any Tone ID detector, is the Discrimination design. On many detectors they use a set of Discrimination 'Segments' also referred to as 'Notches,' and that doesn't allow me the opportunity to try and fine-tune the rejection level to a setting I desire. I prefer to have a fully variable Discrimination adjustment.

You asked: "In the trashy sites I hunt even a two tone can get awfully busy/noisy. So how does the CoRe sound in two tone in a trasy site and with VCO throw in on top of that."

With the Coin & Relic set-up you have five Tone ID decisions to make.:

1.. A 2-Tone option. Use the DI2 search mode and accept all iron or only increase the ID Masking to just knock out nails, and that will let you hear a 2-Tone audio. The lower bass-like tone will be for most ferrous targets that produce a Target ID number below '40,' and the audio response will increase in loudness as the target gets closer to the search coil. The more conductive and non-ferrous targets will produce a VCO audio response. That means that as the target gets closer to the search coil, you will hear an increase in loudness as well as a increase in pitch [size=small](aka VCO audio)[/size]. By design, the VCO's pitch increase is more pronounced as the target gets closer to the coil.

2.. A 1-Tone option. Use DI2 and increase the ID Masking all the way to '40' and that will reject all of the proper-behaving iron targets, so you won't have the lower Tone, only the one VCO Audio response. I know a lot of people do not like to find or eveb hear iron, so this is one set-up they would choose.

3.. A 3-Tone [size=small](static processed and not VCO)[/size] option. Select DI3 and keep the ID Making low, from minimum to maybe iron nail rejection, and you will hear a Low, Medium or High tone response that is just a clear tone w/o VCO incorporated. One feature I like is that after sampling several Zinc cents and other lower-reading cents and the trade tokens I gathered, is that the Nokta FORS CoRe puts most of these into the upper or High-Tone audio ID, which helps make some of my "flash money" searches move right along with less questioning I do on Mid-Tone audio hits.

4.. A 2-Tone [size=small](static processed and not VCO)[/size] option. Select DI3 and increase the ID Masking to a setting of '40' and that will eliminate the lower of the 3 Tones, those for most Iron, and that leaves you with a 2-Tone ID operation of Mid-Tones and High-Tones. For those who do NOT like to hear any iron, this would be another set-up they could use and instead of hearing only a single VCO empowered response [size=small](as in #1 above)[/size] they would hear two 'static' processed audio Tones.

5.. A 1-Tone [size=small](static processed and not VCO)[/size] option. This option could be used similar to #2 above, but that would make six options instead of five and people would really think I'm loony. In this case you would decide you don't want to hear iron, and you don't care if you reject all US Nickels and at least 98% of the gold jewelry, and many older and difficult to find US coins, such as Half-Dimes or both types of 3¢ pieces of Flying Eagle cents, etc. You just don't want to hear foil, pull-tabs, etc. So, increase the ID Masking to the rejection point to eliminate the Mid-Tone range of objects and all you will have left is the 1 upper High-Tone for the accepted higher-conductive targets.

Now, to be specific to Gregg's question. For hitting the ghost town sites and stage stops and similar places that you [size=small](and I)[/size] like to hunt, you could use your MXT Pro and select the Relic mode, then select the 2-Tone audio. Then you can set the Discrimination to reject iron nails, and all targets below the Discriminate setting produce a low-tone, and all targets accepted above the Discriminate setting produce a high tone. All tones, low-or-high, are a 'static' tone as this model doesn't have a VCO audio Discriminate response.

Another way to have a 2-Tone audio is to select the Iron ID option, in which case the variable Discriminate control is bypassed. It does nothing. Instead, all iron-based targets produce the static Low-Tone, and all higher-conductive targets produce the static High-Tone response. So you have a model which we both own and use and like which does have a 2-Tone ID capability.

So a counter-question might be: How much have you hunted at Phil's Place or other locations using the Relic Mode in either of these 2-Tone functions?

Odds are you have mainly used the Coin & Jewelry mode because it is similar to the way your M6 works, and that's the model you have probably used the most. Many people get used to using the good ol' regular single-tone audio, and most of the time that is a 'static' audio response, too. It can be a little difficult to learn to use a 2-Tone audio, especially when you are hearing some or all iron targets. Personally I enjoy using the MXT Pro in Relic mode with one of the two options to let me hear iron and non-iron. I think anyone who will put in a fair amount of time hunting that way will get the opportunity to understand it and get comfortable with it and possibly start to favor it as I do, and many other avid detectorists as well.

Then come other detectors that throw a new twist in the learning challenge, such as the Fisher F75, Teknetics T2, Omega, Fisher F-19 and Tek. G2+ and others ... to include the Nokta FORS Coin & Relic, because they have incorporated the VCO audio. That means you have to learn to listen to and understand the way these 2-Tone models help 'classify' targets by their conductivity, AND you get to learn the subtle nuances of the VCO audio for higher-conductive targets.

Some detectors can have way too many adjustment features to tinker with and I don 't care for most of them. I like simple, I like functional, and I like performance. I do like the MXT Pro's Relic Mode Tone ID options. That said, I like the FORS CoRe Tone ID options better. There are times I like to change it up a little, such as for some urban coin hunting, to include hitting tot-lots, where I opt for the 3-Tone performance of the DI3 mode. I only increase my ID Masking to reject iron nails with a setting of about '20' to '22' then I hunt away. Why that low? So I can hear some of the iron that is in the high traffic public use sites and I can control my sweep around iron to listen for any good target it might be trying to mask out.

For most other hunting applications, I prefer the Nokta's DI2 mode where I can either accept all iron, with a setting of '10' as I have it, or bump it to '20' to '22' to knock out iron nails, if their abundance annoys me. Partly for the same reason to hear iron and check around it, and mainly because it is a lot easier for me to hear a non-ferrous target response with a VCO audio when searching very trashy environments, and those signals I go after.

Do you feel it might be too busy/noisy when hunting a trashy iron infested site?

Yes, for some people it might be, but it might also be too busy/noisy for most just having a low Disc. setting. They just don't know the benefits of searching many of those older sites with a more methodical sweep and keeping the rejection level very low, and no more than to reject only common nails.

I guess I might even clarify an answer with this statement.: Too many 'Average Hobbyists' are quite satisfied and enjoy searching sites with any detector that lets them hear only favorable targets and using a lot of rejection to get rid of most of the bothersome trash, even if that includes all pull tabs. To them, a "trashy site" that is "busy or noisy" is easily tamed by simply increasing the Discrimination level.

To me, and other 'Avid Detectorists' as well, I am quite satisfied and enjoy searches of potentially good producing older sites with a quality engineered detector that is easy to adjust, straightforward in design, and gives me the pleasure of hunting in a good-performing 2-Tone Audio like the CoRe and learning to get the most performance out of what the VCO audio report is telling me. I like to hear the 'keepers' that can often me more easily masked in a very trashy location, especially when most oft the trash is iron-based.

I hope that helped a little, but for many it is better understood when you try it and then use it for a while to learn it. So, between now and Saturday the 14th, try to play with your MXT Pro in the Relic Mode's 2-Tone audio or Iron ID to get an understanding of how it can perform. Use it in the 2-Tone option and just barely reject iron nails and then try an Indian Head on the Nail Board Performance Test and get comfortable with the audio, the positive hits, the "after-burps" or "beep-phart" audio performance.

Then come and check out the Nokta FORS CoRe at the Portland, Oregon D.O.R. meeting on Saturday the 14th. Feel and hear the performance and compare. I did.

It's too bad the Makro Racer isn't out yet as I would dearly love to have one of those there as well. I know that I plan to have a Racer w/Pro package in my hands before the first outings I have planned in mid-March, and I really think the Racer will provide the performance you'll see of the FORS CoRe.

Monte

 

[squirrel1]

Very good info. Matches what I see to a tee. Folks, you don't realize what you're missing until you use one. The CoRe unit because of its simplicity and great audio can make a novice detectorist look like a seasoned detectorist in short order. Just not many ways you can go wrong when using it. No guess work, no trial and error over buried coins, no worries about which filter to select, which recovery setting etc. Just gas (batteries) and go.

 

[Monte]

the newcomer does the following that I added to your post.

Very good info. Matches what I see to a tee. Folks, you don't realize what you're missing until you use one. The CoRe unit because if its simplicity and great audio can make a novice detectorist look like a seasoned detectorist in short order.... the individual puts in the effort to learn it. It's 'simple,' but still different than what many hobbyists are used to. Just not many ways you can go wrong when using it. No guess work, no trial and error over buried coins, no worries about which filter to select, which recovery setting etc. Just gas (batteries) and go.

Impressive detector and an involved company.

Monte

 

[OregonGregg]

Yes Monte you are right for the most part as far as the MXT Pro. I have tried Relic Mode 2 Tones and Iron ID out at "Phils Place" and cared for neither. In fact I would go as far as to just slightly turn the threshold down to just below audible to reduce some of the noise and operate in the C&J mode. I was basically turning the MXT into a silent search M6. LOL the only advantage at this point my MXT had over my M6 was it did have a back lite for early morning or late night hunting. So if I get the Racer I realize I will have to get use to a two tone machine and one that if the target is close to the coil will want to engage the extra squealing pig noise ( VCO) But if the Racer will do as good or better out in those old ghost towns as the MXT Pro or M6 does then I will learn to live with it. If not it will be on Ebay.

 

[Hombre]

Yes Monte you are right for the most part as far as the MXT Pro. I have tried Relic Mode 2 Tones and Iron ID out at "Phils Place" and cared for neither. In fact I would go as far as to just slightly turn the threshold down to just below audible to reduce some of the noise and operate in the C&J mode. I was basically turning the MXT into a silent search M6. LOL the only advantage at this point my MXT had over my M6 was it did have a back lite for early morning or late night hunting. So if I get the Racer I realize I will have to get use to a two tone machine and one that if the target is close to the coil will want to engage the extra squealing pig noise ( VCO) But if the Racer will do as good or better out in those old ghost towns as the MXT Pro or M6 does then I will learn to live with it. If not it will be on Ebay.

Hi Gregg...

You may not realize it, but you just answered my question about 1 tone and 2 tone. I sent you a PM on 01/12/15 about this very same topic and you never got back with me on this, that's cool, at least I know you like the White's single tone the best. I like to use 2 tone on my MX5 and when iron targets get to be overwhelming, I will change to 1 tone with iron notched out. The 1 tone seems to separate and recover more quickly in small iron.

Randy

 

[OregonGregg]

Sorry Hombre,
I thought I replied back to you on that. I know I replied back to several. Anyhow, multiple tones does have its place. But in a iron infested site its not that great. I can understand two tones one for iron the other for non-ferrous etc. But like on my MXT pro or M6 it has 7 tones. Tones are like VDI numbers in a sense........if a good target is being somewhat masked, it will not give a proper VDI number and that goes for the multiple tones. If a good target is being masked somewhat, then it will not give the proper VDI number or proper tone. So in a iron trash environment you learn not to rely solely on VDI numbers and tones as well. If I am in a wide open park I might kick it over to tones for the heck of it. But in ghost towns etc, it just gets too busy/noisy. I just like a good single tone to alert me that something might be there and go from there.

 

[Monte]

"Average Hobbyist" patience level to learn something new Vs an "Avid Detectorist" commitment to be patient and put in the time to learn and master some functional features?

To readers, Gregg knows me and knows my feelings about 'classifying' metal detecting folks into one of two categories, as I described. We often discuss a few individuals we both know who might even boast how they have been detecting for twenty years, but in reality, they are smack-dab in the middle of being a "Traditional Coin Hunter or Average Hobbyist. By that I mean they buy a detector based upon what an ad slick tells them the detector will do. They think they might be able to reject all trash targets or that it will respond to only coins.

Often they want to put full faith in a visual Target ID display, and quite often they don't learn all the adjustment functions, or purpose of some controls, and while they get out detecting fairly often to old lots, renovation sites and other possible productive sites, they are in a fog. I don't mean the weather, I mean they can't see clearly what a detector can and can't do or really learn it because they haven't read and understood the Owner's Manual !! Furthermore, they won't ask anyone who knows better for any help learning their detector.

I have many friends who are dedicated to hunting older sites, and they also fall in the class I call 'Avid Detectorists' because they have learned, are learning, and will learn as much as possible about practical detector functions, and how to get the most out of different makes and models of detectors, as well as how to benefit from selecting a different search coil for certain tasks.

Several of the do not use a detector with any form of visual information, and they are not just comfortable without it, they are also very successful in their searches. Why? Because they learned how to detect by first relying on the audio response and either tried visual Target ID and didn't like it, or have it on a model but just don't care to use it.

Some have also learned more about models with an audio response that incorporates VCO circuitry, and most of them finally settled on hunting with a VCO audio either full-time or at least 75% of the time. As I have stated, it might be a little more of a challenge for a hobbyist who is totally used to a single static tone to learn, understand and then get comfortable with VCO audio. I think it's a little easier for the savvy, more experienced detectorist to appreciate it.

I also think it's easy for a total newcomer to start out using a detector with VCO before trying a 'standard beep' model. Matter of fact, if they start that way and learn VCO, they will appreciate it more and possibly be on the opposite side of the fence when they try a 'traditional' 1-tone detector with a static audio and wonder how anyone can stand that plain old 'beep' that lacks and character or information.

Yes Monte you are right for the most part as far as the MXT Pro.

The MXT Pro and relabeled MXT All-Pro are definitely top-end, versatile, high-performance detectors. That's why I maintain having one in my arsenal as my #2 All-Purpose detector. Ample adjustments, too, even if some people don't use them. Once learned and understood, it's easier to appreciate what the detector design provides in performance overall.

I have tried Relic Mode 2 Tones and Iron ID out at "Phils Place" and cared for neither.

I think you need to give the 2-Tone option a chance by hunting with it ONLY for a few days at a littered site like Phil's Place. Don't switch back-and-forth to the C&J and single tone, just use it to learn it. Trying it only briefly doesn't really let you learn it, and once learned you will understand some of the goods and bads for selecting it .... then make the decision on whether you like VCO and the DI2's 2-Tone audio or not.

I happen to liken the two different tones [size=small](pitches or frequencies)[/size] White's chose to use for their Relic mode's 2-Tone audio as there is a very clear difference between them to help distinguish ferrous Vs non-ferrous targets with their approach to a 2-Tone audio ID with two fixed tones. But I also like the Nokta's design with their 2-Tone audio ID with a static low-tone and a variable-pitch VCO audio for non-ferrous. I like them both, but if I was to favor one over the other [size=small](which I obviously did since I fit the Nokta FORS CoRe into my #1 All-Purpose detector assignment)[/size], it is the VCO system of the Nokta because I can get more information on non-ferrous targets in a very littered site with a lot of iron debris.

I will have to qualify the performance, however, because the favorable results the Nokta Coin & Relic gives me isn't simply the VCO enhanced 2-Tone audio, but the overall circuitry design that let's it do what it can do so well. Then, too, I also like the Nokta's DI2 mode because there will be times when you hunt a site for hours and hours, or a few days in a row on a trip, and sometimes the audio Tone can get kind of hum-drum.

While I have my favorite Tone selected for each of the four search modes, I can easily change a Tone in a matter of seconds, and that lets me hear things differently for a while. Just to kind of shake off the same sound over-and-over from frequent target hits. That's another adjustment function that is useful, easy to select, but isn't found on the makes and models you have in your arsenal.

In fact I would go as far as to just slightly turn the threshold down to just below audible to reduce some of the noise and operate in the C&J mode. I was basically turning the MXT into a silent search M6.

Well, your White's Classic models have a silent-search Discriminate mode, and your White's M6 is also a silent search design, so I can understand why you might like to reduce the Threshold setting just enough to try and duplicate the M6's internal setting. That is with the tuner adjusted just slightly below and audible Threshold point. I would suggest you don't turn it way down, too low, like to the minimum setting.

If that goal was to help keep the MXT Pro a little quieter in the C&J Discriminate mode, then you would like the Nokta FORS CoRe because it is a silent-search Discriminate operation in the DI2, DI3 and COG search modes. Matter of fact, you don't have a live Threshold adjustment to change that, either.

the only advantage at this point my MXT had over my M6 was it did have a back lite for early morning or late night hunting.

Yes, and that's one of the reasons I prefer the MXT Pro/All-Pro over the M6, it has the 3-level Backlighted display. In addition, the MXT also has a selectable All Metal search mode [size=small](Prospecting)[/size] that the M6 lacks, and if you select the Prospecting mode you can see the Ground Phase number of your Ground Balance setting, and the M6 lacks that.

Just a reminder, the Nokta won't "leave you in the dark" either because it has a '0' to '20' adjustment level backlight and it doesn't run full-time to wear down the battery, it only lights up in the handgrip display when a target is encountered with a strong enough response. Also, you can be in any search mode and check the Ground Phase read-out at anytime with a quick press-and-release of the GB button on the top of the hand-grip.

So if I get the Racer I realize I will have to get use to a two tone machine and one that if the target is close to the coil will want to engage the extra squealing pig noise ( VCO)

If you get a Racer, or a Coin & Relic, AND if you select the 2-Tone search mode with a VCO audio, then you will have to learn it, even if at first you associate it with a "squealing pig noise." I am sure you will form a slightly different opinion next week when we gather for the DOR meeting and you handle the FORS CoRe.

But if the Racer will do as good or better out in those old ghost towns as the MXT Pro or M6 does then I will learn to live with it. If not it will be on Ebay.

Let's spend just one hour next week with a NBPT and a few targets in an old park, and compare both your MXT Pro and the Nokta Coin & Relic, both with a standard coil and smaller coil, and compare the two 2-Tone options on the MXT Pro and the Nokta 2 and 3 Tone choices. You might will be surprised.

Monte

 

[OregonGregg]

with my own eyes. Friday morning Monte called me and said Gregg drive over here to Arlington.....in fact ya might wanna Race on over here. I'm like damn !!! did you get a Racer ??? So really early Sat morning I loaded up the dogs, MXT Pro, M6 and drove thru the night to get to the other side of the State. Met Monte at the Pheasant Grill in Arlington at 6am sharp. If ya ever get there have the Ultimate omelette ( that alone was worth the drive

So over breakfast I told Monte that I brought both my machines ( M6 and MXT Pro) Also said that over the last month or so, it seems that everyone is getting caught up in this Nokta/Makro hype and is turning into a frenzy of sorts. And when you told me you was replacing the MXT Pro with the Fors CoRe machine as your #1 all around machine, well I knew for sure ya must have fell down and hit your head on something........

After breakfast we started out with the good ol' Nail Board Performance Test. And to make the test interesting we did it on an asphalt parking lot ( highly mineralized conditions) To make the test as fair as possible I used my 5" round detect DD coil that is about the same size as the small coil that comes with the Fors CoRe and Racer machines. We would take a machine, ground balance to the asphalt parking lot and then attempt the test. For those not familiar with the Nail Board Test, here is a link that explains how the NBPT came to be and a pic/template of the test :

http://www.ahrps.org/_tipsAndTechniques/Nail_Board_Performance_Test.pdf

I started with the M6 and 5" round DD coil. I quickly ground balanced to the asphalt set the disc to just knock out the nails and did the test. I got 7 of 8 possible hits. 6 were clean hits with the 7th being more of a "iffy" signal/hit. I as well as Monte love hunting old iron infested ghost towns, old homestead sites, stage stops etc. The NBPT is a nice quick simple test to see how well a machine might perform in those iron infested sites. As a rule , passing would be at least 6 of 8 hits on the coin. You will be surprised at how many " fast recovery" machines with a small coil will fail this test. The only machines that I have seen that will get a clean 8 of 8 hits is some Tesoro Models and the Whites Classic models, they being a 2 filter fast recovery slowww sweep machines.

After a quick tutorial on the CoRe and Racer machines, Monte handed me the Fors CoRe machine with the small coil. I attempted the test in Di2 with the factory default settings. I quickly ground balanced to the asphalt and did the test. I got a clean 8 of 8 possible hits on the coin. I looked up at Monte with this dumb look on my face and he was just grinning. I said something must be wrong and tried again, and again getting the same results. Needless to say I was a bit dumb founded. He then took the Racer and did the test and it to easily got a clean 8 of 8 possible hits on the coin. To make matters worse ( for me) he then took the Fors CoRe machine, put the standard coil ( 11 x 7 ) back on it and did the test. He got 8 of 8 hits on the coin with 7 of them being good and one being an "iffy". I didn't go any further with test using the MXT Pro. I already know what the M6 and MXT Pro are capable of. They are and will always be great machines. However, on the NBPT, the CoRe and Racer did the job a little better.

I soon realized that maybe Monte didn't fall down and hit his head on something. I will say I was amazed at the performance that the Nokta Fors CoRe and Mackro Racer machines did using the NBPT.

I'll give some of my initial thoughts about the Fors Core and Racer machines. Please bear in mind that this was my first exposure to each machine and it was brief at that. So the real evaluations will come from the big guys, Monte, Steve and Keith.

As far as performance I think for those that are wondering if the Racer is as good as the CoRe machine will not be disappointed. As far as depth, I cannot comment on depth for either machine. I usually hunt iron infested sites and "depth" is not a priority for me, what is , is a machine that can handle those types of sites. The NBPT is a nice tool to quickly evaluate a machine to gauge how well it might handle dense iron situations. So I look for machines that can pass that test and depth isn't a consideration. So as far as performance and passing the NBPT, the Fors CoRe and Racer did an excellent job....beyond my expectations.

So if I have a gripe about either machine, it will not be about performance. Using each machine with the small coil, I actually liked the feel and ergonomics of the Fors Core over the Racer. This is based on personal preference, but I wish the s type handle on the Racer machine where you grip it was a bit more relaxed, ie: i feel it stands too vertical. Build quality on each machine is top notch. Coil construction is also top notch.
Where you attach the coil cable to the Racer, on the back of the TID display was very easy unlike trying to attach the cable to say the AT Pro or MX5 that requires a bit of cussing. Also on the Racer a nice touch is that they put the headphone jack on the back of the machine under the arm cup and not out the back of the TID display. So I guess what I am getting at in deciding what machine do I want to get, the performance is there for each machine, so for me deciding, will be based on the physical package of the machine. The CoRe machine will retain memory as the Racer doesn't. The Racer displays information in a TID that is "in your face" whereas the CoRe machine is on the side and that goes for making machine adjustments as well. The CoRe does display VDI info in the hand grip though. I still haven't decided which one I like best. I will be meeting up with Monte again next weekend and will get a chance to use each machine again and get in a bit more time with each. I will say however, that I feel you can't go wrong with either selection. As I said I feel that the performance is there for each machine and it boils down for me to what physical package I like best.

Will the MXT Pro or M6 be headed to Ebay ??? Nope, not at all. They still are and always will be great performing machines. But I will be adding either a CoRe or Racer machine to the arsenal, just gotta decide which one it will be.....decisions decisions .........but for a totally illogical reason, I kinda want the Racer machine because its red and has a "cool" factor lol

Anyhow, this is just my two cents worth based on briefly getting to use each machine.

I'm sure Monte will see this and maybe add his thoughts and plug some gaps/holes or fill in some stuff I may have forgot to add.

 

[shoover]

Monte, How well did the Fors CoRe perform on your NBPT ? ( nail board performance test)

 

[Monte]

You heard me in our discussions, then your hear/read my comments on the Forum, and you read other comments, too, by Keith S., JFlynn, Steve H. and others, but you were no different than most of the readers who own other brands and have a partial favorite or two that has been working well for them. That is, you know how your detectors perform, and they are some of the best in the industry. You can watch a video, or see the recoveries of 'keepers' and the additional 'trash' that has been posted, and you, like other readers/viewers [size=small](including me)[/size], will read or hear how someone declares a particular make or model detector or search coil to be other excellent in iron trash.

One difference is we don't know what others consider "iron trash" to be. And, one thing you DO know is what "iron trash" and "nail infested" means to me .... and you know the detectors I have been relying on to provide me some of the best dense nail environment performance that we have had. Since 1983, Tesoro's have been my unit to compare all others to, to handle a tough nail condition, and my Nail Board Performance Test is just that. You hadn't tried a Tesoro on the NBPT until Saturday. Similar performance comes from the White's Classic series. And modern detectors, that can perform almost as well as the Classic's or Tesoro models, yet provide more visual and/or audio information, are those in White's MXT 'family' [size=small](the MXT, MXT Pro, M6 and MX5)[/size] with a smaller-size search coil.

Like me, you have been using the MXT Pro and M6 as I have the MXT Pro and MX5.. They are not quite as clean and efficient in the NBPT as a Tesoro or Classic, but they do 'OK' compared with most of the competition out there. There's no doubt you were scratchi' your head when I told you the Nokta FORS CoRe was as good as it is, and that overall, it moved to my #1 slot. I was itchin' to see you this coming Friday at our DOR meeting so you could feel and hear this excellent detector.

When the Racer showed up I put it together and checked four coins and one iron trash piece after I put the battery in, then headed outside to my black asphalt parking lot with the Nail Board in-hand. I had to know how it would stack up against the CoRe using the same-size smaller DD coil. Once my amazement and excitement started to wear off [size=small](all this within less than 15 minutes after the Racer package arrived)[/size] I gave you a call and let you hear the response from all four directions, and as I walked around the test board, and let you think it was the Nokta. You had a surprised voice when I pointed out to you that was the excellent 2-Tone audio with VCO, which sounds a lot better than a "squealing pig." I knew I would have you attention when I told you that was the Makro Racer.

Seeing and hearing are one thing, but you made a heck of an all-night drive just to get to check out these two detectors, and see for yourself, then handle them yourself on the NBPT. I really think that is what it is going to take for some readers on the Forum to really appreciate both the FORS Coin & Relic and Racer detector models. Actually seeing them and learning first-hand what they can do.

I look forward to you making the longer-drive to the Portland Oregon area for our Saturday Detector Owner Rendezvous where we'll all be viewing and discussing these two models and any other newer detectors someone might have. Also, you'll get to put in an hour or so with them when we go hunt a site or two. So, by then end of Saturday afternoon, on your long drive home, you'll get to ponder and try to decide ... Nokta Makro ... decisions, decisions. I can't wait to hear your detector purchase decision by next Saturday evening or Sunday.

I know you're not used to 2 or 3 Tone audio or VCO [size=small](even though you use it all the time in your Pinpoint function)[/size], but you just leave all other detectors home for two solid weeks of detecting the old ghost towns and stage stops and other old-use property over your way, and I am sure you will be comfortable with it.

Thanks for the detecting visit last Saturday.

If anyone reading this is in the Portland, Oregon area, you are welcome to attend our FREE Detector Owner Rendezvous metal detecting group meeting. It starts at 8:30 AM Saturday morning, the 14th. Just e-mail or call for info.

Monte

[size=small]PS: How well do these two models handle dense iron nails? As of the other day, I now will compare all other brands to the FORS CoRe and Racer on the NBPT because they are now the ones to beat.[/size]

 

[OregonGregg]

Placed an order for the Racer Pro Pack and yes I look forward to seeing you again in Portland and a chance to play with the machines again. It will be fun to give my Racer a good work out when we do the Nevada Ghost Town trip later this Spring. BTW if anyone is interested in joining us and hitting some ghost towns around the 2nd week of May, contact Monte for information. We will be staying in a smaller town that has a few Casinos and will use that as a base camp and travel to several different sites. Will be a fun trip.

 

[shoover]

I just got my Fors pro pack. fit and finish are awesome, charging the batteries right now. I have to use the USB adapter because their was't a 110 volt adaptor for the charger. Now I can't paly with it till tomorrow after work. This is gonna drive me nuts.

 

[steve herschbach]

Hi Gregg,

I am flattered to have my name mentioned in the same sentence with the "big guys!" I do not think I am nearly as good as any of them with all this detecting in iron stuff and I certainly am not near as analytical in how I approach my machines. Frankly between Keith and Tom over on Tom's forum and Monte and Keith here people have it really well covered. I may add a few tidbits here and there but I came to my own conclusions regarding Nokta/Makro quite some time ago. I do now have a Racer but was out of town when it arrived. I just put it together and have it sitting here with the 5.5" x 10" DD coil and am imagining this is what the Gold Racer will look like, though maybe a different color? Don't know, but I like what I am seeing and handling. Hopefully I will be able to get out and about with it tomorrow.

 

[OregonGregg]

Hi Steve,

I hope you do get a chance to play with your new toy tomorrow. I would be very interested in your initial thoughts on the Makro Racer and how you feel it compares to the Fors CoRe as far as the physical package of each. And how you feel about the performance of the Racer compared to the CoRe.
Look forward to your comments,

gregg

 

[Monte]

I just got my Fors pro pack. fit and finish are awesome, charging the batteries right now. I have to use the USB adapter because their was't a 110 volt adaptor for the charger. Now I can't paly with it till tomorrow after work. This is gonna drive me nuts.

Congrats on your decision!

I seldom use any rechargeable battery in anything, and so far that includes both the FORS CoRe and Racer. When I got my Coin & Relic unit open and then noticed the 'European' type plug on the charger I just grabbed some alkalines out of my battery tote. Then I remembered that one of my cell phone AC chargers has a USB port on the side, so I used that to charge them. Just haven't put them in yet, but will when weather improves.

[size=small](By that I mean with improved weather I can spend longer stretches of hunting time, and that let's me monitor battery duration under more load.)[/size]

Going to go charge up the set that came with the Racer and have them ready. Once both sets of rechargeables are at peak, I am going to install them in both detectors and try to monitor each model's battery 'run time.' I'll then do the same for two or three brands of alkaline AA's. I like to see just how useful rechargeable batteries might be.

I know that when I was doing that with a few models back in the mid-to-latter '80s, the detectors put more drain on the rechargeable batteries and there was a pronounced difference in favor of the alkaline batteries. I can buy them reasonably cheap at times, so that let me hunt longer and not have a surprise failure, that rechargeables can do, out in some desert ghost town when I was a long walk from the vehicle.

Enjoy your new detector. I learn to appreciate it even more each time I get out hunting because it is 'simple' yet very 'functional.' Report in on your adventures,

Monte

 

[Nokta Detectors]

I just got my Fors pro pack. fit and finish are awesome, charging the batteries right now. I have to use the USB adapter because their was't a 110 volt adaptor for the charger. Now I can't paly with it till tomorrow after work. This is gonna drive me nuts.

Hello ..In one of the shipments to USA, the USB adaptors were not included by mistake. I apologize on behalf of my team and if you want, we can send one out to you via UPS express.

 

[Monte]

Monte, How well did the Fors CoRe perform on your NBPT ? (nail board performance test)

Both the FORS Coin & Relic and Makro Racer were/are simply impressive using the small DD coil. The FORS CoRe did okay with the stock 7X11.2 DD as well. I am going to be headed out in about 15 minutes to spend another day of evaluation and one plan is to double-check both models with their 7X11'ish standard coils and the 5½X10 DD on the Racer just to confirm how the moderate-size or standard size coils can do on that test.

I know they won't be a match for the excellent small coil, but both models have exceled in performance on the nail Board of my 'former' main-use detectors. That's a main part of the reason these two won me over, combined with their simple but ample adjustment options and other in-the-field performance results.

You'll soon learn how well the FORS CoRe performs.

Monte

 

[shoover]

You'll soon learn how well the FORS CoRe performs

Monte, I'm starting to find out already. I got home from work late and till I got a bite to eat it was dark out. I played around with the Fores inside a little bit but being in the house with heaters running the wife watching TV, I was getting a lot of EMI. Tomorrow is garbage day so I took it to the road side. As I was coming back to the house I thought , well it's not that cold out so I grabbed the fores to do a quick swing in the yard. So I fired up the Fors left it in the factory set up, just turn on GB and swing. I made one pass about 25' long and ended up hitting two targets. I always use the heel of the coil to pinpoint in disc mode gives me a better idea of the size and shape of the target than using pinpoint function. Both targets I found had iron right beside them the minute my coil broke off the target I got a nulling sound. I didn't get a chance to dig them since it was cold and dark outside but I put a big divit on top of the spots to make sure I can locate them in the daylight. Now I can't wait to dig those targets but I want to wait for my buddy to come check them with his detector. This area I pounded numerous times with my other detectors just playing with settings and things and thought it was all cleaned up except for the nails that were lost during it's construction. I have to check these two spots again with my other detectors but there is no way I missed them. Looking very promising so far. I was using the stock coil.