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Outlaw or TID unit

Kapok

Active member
Since this is a Tesoro forum, I'm liable to get biased opinions, but thought I'd give it a go anyway since I usually get good advice here. I've been a loyal Tesoro user for 15 years and have used a couple of uMax units, a Vaq, and now the Outlaw but am seriously thinking of switching to the AT Pro, for a number of reasons (waterproof not one of them). I've read up a lot on the beep & dig vs TID and it almost seems like two political parties. :| and it's hard to decide which one might really be better for me. I'm feeling that I might not be finding everything I could find, and with most grounds heavily hunted these days, I need to maximize my chances.

I'm wondering if any of you have also used the AT Pro or another TID machine, and if so, what your reactions/results were.
 
Hello Kapok.

You can use a TID detector also as a beep-->dig machine. ?? There is no MUST to look at the display. But it can help to get a clue what is buried.
And if in doubt, -->dig.
Having three TID machines (had a DeLeon in the past, too) and with all it is really easy to tell iron targets (as with the DeLeon it was, too).
But from time to time I dig those signals, just to confirm. And never failed.
So if your goal is to separate iron - yes, the TID will help.

But before buying try to swing the machine of desire try to sweep it...from a friend, in a club, local dealer...may be you don't like it.
Just a suggestion...IMHO
 
This is a really tough question for me....I have several visual ID machines (including the DeLeon) and several "beep and dig" machines (mostly Tesoros). I still think that the DeLeon, with its dual display, is the best vlf machine I have for identifying iron. I think I can say that I use the VID machines more regularly than the others, but when I use the others (in the locations I think are suited to them), they perform very very well.

I would not trade any of my "beep and dig" detectors for a visual ID unit, and neither would I trade some of my visual ID units for another "beep and dig".

I don't own an AT Pro...not because I don't like them, simply because of the weight of the machine.

If you want a VID machine, my suggestion is that you get one to complement at least the Vaq or the Outlaw, or both. If the Vaquero and the Outlaw do different jobs for you, and you have to get rid of at least one of them, try to work out which one the VID machine would best replace it, for the type of detecting you do and the locations where you detect.

By trolling through the forums you can obtain some idea of which machines are used in the various types of locations, and you may be able to pick up some ideas of which type (model) of machine best suits your needs.

Good luck and HH
 
Furious. I currently have only the Outlaw, and I'm not really in a position to afford two detectors. So I'm going to continue gathering feedback like yours (and vito's above), and decide what to do. I live in a small town a long way from the nearest dealer, so finding one to swing will be a challenge. But I'm going to reach out to a local club here and see if I can connect with other users with VID units.

Thanks!
 
I went for a spin this AM used the F19 and then the Compadre 6" super junky site you know one of those that's just ugly hard to explain anyway place had been flogged like everything around here but scratched around and got my fuel money and some exercise.

how does that help you decide what machine to buy ? probably doesn't guess my point is don't have to spend a lot of money to get a good detector :clapping:

AJ
 
amberjack said:
how does that help you decide what machine to buy ? probably doesn't guess my point is don't have to spend a lot of money to get a good detector :clapping:AJ

Point taken there, amberjack. In my lifetime, I found more coins with my old Compass Yukon Nugget TR back in the day than I've found with all my more expensive detectors later in life. Of course it's not as easy as it was in the old days. But as a rule, simpler is better in my book.
 
Just a thought....I don't know which coil/coils you have for the Outlaw at present, Kapok, but there is a wide range of coils available for that detector, from small concentric to large DD coils..

Changing coils can be a bit like changing detectors for different conditions. Relatively speaking, coils are not as expensive to buy as are detectors. As I said, just a thought......
 
Furious T said:
Just a thought....I don't know which coil/coils you have for the Outlaw at present, Kapok, but there is a wide range of coils available for that detector, from small concentric to large DD coils..

Changing coils can be a bit like changing detectors for different conditions. Relatively speaking, coils are not as expensive to buy as are detectors. As I said, just a thought......

I have two 8" concentric coils (which I've swapped out one for the other to see if one was better than the other) and the 5.75" concentric. Both have their merits. I haven't tried a widescan coil on it, but I did with my Vaq and didn't like the results so much.
 
Not telling you which way to go on this decision, all I can do is tell you my experiences in this hobby from the beginning.


Started with a broken BH unit for 3 months then I got a high tone Vaq with my tax refund and that is when my hobby really started for me.
Loved that thing and used it for several hundred hours and found plenty even though my soil is...rough.
Several months later I bought an F2 just to take on vacation and to give to guests, a little while after that I also picked up a vintage 7" coil Compadre because back then I was a died in the wool jewelry hunter.
I spent a lot of time getting to know the Compadre but I knew a lot already thanks to time spent with my Vaq.
As I spent time learning to hunt with the F2 something happened that surprised me...I really started to love this thing, a lot.
I found it was a blast to use and I was finding some great targets all through the initial learning process and then even more as I got good with it.
I still took out the Vaq and the Compadre too from time to time, I really do like the ability to switch between the two different types anytime I want and still do, but used the F2 more.
I moved to another state and continued to rotate all 3 units in the much better and almost perfect soil in my new home but still took out the F2 more often.
The behavior of all three in that environment was different...better, deeper and more solid signals at all depths.
I continued to learn and understand all of them but found that using the screen unit in the trashy park sites I usually targeted got me more good targets overall, percentage wise, as a matter of fact I won so many contests at my club meetings that several other members went out and bought F2's for themselves even though they all owned and hunted with much more expensive detectors too.
I won the most coins dug contest just about every month beating out the second place winner usually by hundreds of coins, first place in best jewelry as often as I was allowed to win by the rules and more.

Some say that those that use screens miss so much because screens lie, I guess there are some that believe everything screens say 100% and make all digging decisions based on that, I believe the truth is probably most of us are more like me.
Thanks to my training using Tesoros I listen to the sound just as much as I watch the screen and take ALL information I receive, filter it down in my head using my experience and make digging decisions on that...a much more logical way to approach this.
I have no X Ray vision, strange and weird things can an do happen out there so everything I see and hear I take with a grain of salt...all of it.

Over the last few years I have had a change in attitude about what I decide to dig.
In the beginning I used to be more of a dig it all type of hunter, even if I thought targets were trash you really never know so I dug most everything except iron for a long time using both types of detectors.
As time went on I found I just didn't have the patience, energy reserves or time to hunt like I used to so I looked for ways to cut down my trash digging while still keeping the percentages as high as possible of digging the good stuff and I have succeeded to a higher level than I would have dreamed possible.
I think I have cut out about 80% of the trash targets I used to dig using Tesoros, a little bit more when I use my Fishers.
Sure, I probably miss a few things here and there but I don't care because my volume total stays high, my bucket list items continue to be checked off one by one and I am a much more rested hunter.
In 2014 I upgraded by buying an F70 and started learning that one, soon enough I realized I was living at a deeper level with this thing and the screen information held even more useful indicators and clues as I learned to understand what I was seeing along with still listening to the tones.
Eventually I moved back to the south and that bad soil, I almost cried because I now had experience with both heaven and hell and I considered buying a PI unit because I knew from experience depth would be severely limited with a VLF unit and I was correct, and where I live I also have all the normal mineralization problems but also add to that an unusual amount of iron in my local sites made things even more difficult but by then I had that F70 so I hoped all the extra power and possible settings would help.
I hunted here using both Tesoros and the newer F70 and even though I was even better with all of them than I used to be when I lived here before the things I could do with the F70 far outpaced what could accomplish with my Tesoros.
Now I hunt with that one 98% of the time so you have to take that into account, and I had to learn a whole new language and set of behaviors and indicators too, but using the Fisher I have been able to get deeper than ever before and ID possible and good targets deeper than I ever had in the past using any detector.
Also masking is a huge problem here even on some more shallow targets.
I have been able to pluck out some great things with my Tesoros, especially my Compadre which I use more, but the amount and frequency does not come close to what I can do with the Fisher.
The reason...I believe it has to do with the screen and the extra and added information I get that helps me make digging decisions.
Others using Tesoros might be able to do better than me in my hunting environment if they had more skills than I do, of that I can never be sure, but I am no slouch with way, way over 1000 hours experience using both kinds and I have also used both types at many different sites like extreme trash, extreme iron, heavy mineralization and great soil where depth can be phenomenal.
Again, I am just talking about me here and nobody else, but I have been way more successful using screens because I am all about logic, commonsl sense, anally learning my tools to the utmost degree and using all the information received to make digging decisions.
It's all math to me, screen units give me both tonal AND visual information, more information I can observe, digest and possibly use than just aural info alone.
I still own and use my Tesoros, like I said not being able to use both kinds when I choose to would make me sad and frustrated, but when the chips are down and the site or conditions are difficult I am going to grab my Fisher because so far I have not come across any site or conditions it could not conquer because of the amount if information it supplies me.

If you can only own one I would not want to be in your shoes, I would urge you to keep a Tesoro and a capable screen unit in the arsenal at all times if at all possible.
If that is not possible then try a screen unit because like me you might be shocked and surprised on the difference and what you may get be able to do.
 
Revier, thank you for this post. You've given me a lot of food for thought. Glad to hear of your great success.

Happy hunting.
 
Kapok said:
Revier, thank you for this post. You've given me a lot of food for thought. Glad to hear of your great success.

Happy hunting.

Different hunters, different people, different ways of doing this hobby...and it is a hobby and not a life and death job.
Those "what if's" in the back of your mind can drive you crazy if you let them.
If you really think you might be able to do better in your sites than you are now a change is probably in order because you will never know until you try.
A new coil, new techniques when hunting or a totally new detector could all help and make a difference.
Humans are explorers by nature, sometimes you just have to take a leap of faith in life.
Luckily, in this hobby nothing is permanent.
If you buy something new and it works out good then great...if it doesn't you can always switch back eventually and you still gained some knowledge and experience you didn't have before.
Good luck no matter what you decide to do.
 
Same as REVIER. I got an Ace 250 as the first affordable ID unit (it came before the F2 and other units) and thought I had made a mistake. Finally, I started using it and learned it's best settings and found it had more qualities than just a screen and that I COULD also use it beep/dig. So, it was Compadre at some sites and Ace at others. I would love to have the AT Pro, because of the ADDITIONAL pro mode features. It's like 3 machines in one.
 
I started with several beep and digs, then added a couple of tid machines. I do and can use both types and don't feel handicapped when using the beep and digs. However, I find that I'm able to decide and retrieve coins etc. a bit quicker versus thumbing the disc on the non id machines. I did, one time, pass on a signal with the DeLeon that didn't display as a goodie, but did sound a bit strange. Went back and retrieved the target and it turned out to be a small, 925 silver scotty dog from a charm bracelet. In my opinion starting out and getting comfortable with the disc and sounds on a beep and dig and THEN adding an id machine is the best way to go as you've learned to not depend on the visual id as the only element in deciding to dig.
BB
 
Read the previous posts, and I don't have a lot to add. I started with a BH tracker IV and liked the tones but it was a shallow machine. I got a Vaq and really liked it and have used it for several years now. However, I am past 65 and do not like bending down and digging so much iron which is really prevalent here. Large iron even with DISC will show up anyway, so I got a TID machine. I bought a Minelab Xterra 705 at a great price and really like it. It has tones and a big screen ID that I can read easily. It is also light weight and easy to swing. I use it about 80% of the time now. Just my opinion at this time.
Andy from Hillsborough
 
If you can find a clean Toltec100 and are physically able to swing a heavyweight (4 lbs), I have seen these go for about the price of a Compadre. I bought one off of Dan Pa and this machine is really hot if tuned right.
 
Hombre said:
If you can find a clean Toltec100 and are physically able to swing a heavyweight (4 lbs), I have seen these go for about the price of a Compadre. I bought one off of Dan Pa and this machine is really hot if tuned right.

Not sure if kidding or not... /s
 
I'm not kidding, these old dinosaurs really work great, antique gold ring found at 9" deep, harmonica reed at 12" and they work good in the iron too.
 
BarberBill said:
I started with several beep and digs, then added a couple of tid machines. I do and can use both types and don't feel handicapped when using the beep and digs. However, I find that I'm able to decide and retrieve coins etc. a bit quicker versus thumbing the disc on the non id machines. I did, one time, pass on a signal with the DeLeon that didn't display as a goodie, but did sound a bit strange. Went back and retrieved the target and it turned out to be a small, 925 silver scotty dog from a charm bracelet. In my opinion starting out and getting comfortable with the disc and sounds on a beep and dig and THEN adding an id machine is the best way to go as you've learned to not depend on the visual id as the only element in deciding to dig.
BB

Hello Bill.

Do you remember the disc setting and the ID ? What does it mean didn't display as a goodie but sounded strange?
Did you resweep the hole? May be it was masked by iron...
 
Don't remember the settings for sure as that was several years ago. However, I usually disc iron, but accept nickels etc. In this case, I was swinging under a swing seat in a park and got a bouncy, not great signal that sounded off compared to most good targets and a bit off compared to most junk. I walked past, thought for a minute and went back and retrieved it. Wasn't deep at all and didn't note any iron or other. The fact that the sound was just odd compared to most of the good and typical junk targets both was why I decided to retrieve it to see what it was. Another example of "if in doubt, dig it out.".
BB
 
I started the hobby with the original Tesoro Eldorado back in 87' and soon found myself "eyeing" the Toltec 100 for the ID capability. Being in the military back then money was tight so I never made the plunge to purchase. I learned to detect strictly using audio and would "thumb the disc" in order to see where the different targets being retrieved would disc out. Thru the years I have found that desirable targets don't always give good signals audibly. Would they have given a good signal visually...I can't answer that:shrug: I personally can't speak for ID units but more times than not I hear the users of ID units say that they make their final decision to dig by audio sounds.? Strictly audio units along with visual units can miss targets at times if you don't investigate with digging!
 
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