Now that MINELAB has kicked the Sovereign to the curb.

[Critterhunter]

Me thinks they got rid of it because as people realize it goes just as deep or deeper than alot of them there fancy more espensive machines they couldn't keep selling the new models for such high prices. Reminds me of the "smartphone" frenzy, got to have the latest and the greatest. I'm willing to bet they already have a warehouse somewhere with the iphone 6 and 7 already stacked to the ceiling just waitng to be released..just my .02
HH

Yep, just because a new phone comes out with a few more bells and whistles people rush like mad out to get one, and then they can't even give that "old" phone they paid $500 for a few months back away. It's all about flash and glitter appealing to the "buy now!" mindset of the way people's brains are wired to do things on impulse.

Is that new phone really "better"? Depends on what you mean by "better". Bells and whistles isn't what better is about to me. I even hate cars with no window cranks so I can't put the windows down without having keys in the car. How is electric windows an improvement then if I can't do that? Or cars with tire pressure gauges on the dash. Just one more thing to go wrong or distract me when I'm trying to drive. If I can't be bothered to walk around my car once in a while to make sure the tires aren't flat then maybe I shouldn't be driving in the first place if I'm that out of shape.

The main performance aspects of a detector I care about are depth, separation (unmasking- easily done or improved with the right DD coil), tone alerts, and a large selection of affordable coil options to suit various situations, improving either the depth or separation aspects even more. Which the 12x10 does in both respects for me, or I'm hoping the 7.25" Tornado will do as well in some situations. The only other thing for me that I was looking for was high low/mid conductivity span resolution. Got all the above things in spades for me with my GT.

I have talked to some people privately and also read posts from others who have gone back to their Excals or GTs or Explorers from various machines for various reasons I won't get into, other than to say that some people have their reasons, as I have had mine. I'm not into the latest phones nor the bells and whistles on most days. I just want low hassle, as deep as it gets, tone alerts, and a high resolution VDI in the low/mid *conductivity* span of targets to split hairs on what I'm after (rings, relics, buttons, or certain old coins that read lower on the scale) versus say a billion tabs at a land site. Don't care about coin types above a copper penny when I'm after old coins in trash or deep. Been fooled by that on machines too many times, where an old silver read lower like a clad or other coin. In terms of conductivity resolution in the foil to zinc range I'm not aware of any machine that has such high resolution as the Sovereign.

With a conductivity resolution of roughly 100 for the Sovereign (say around 78 or so where foil starts to 178 for a copper penny or so), versus that of other machines with far lower conductive resolution and a large part of even that size scale eaten up by coins above a copper penny in VDI...The Sovereign was and is very much what I have always wanted VDI scale wise for my particular wants/types of hunting, but I will be picking up a SE Pro sooner or later here as I do miss some things on my Explorers on certain days such as that mesmerizing screen, and I prefer that the Explorers don't have that 12th line compression thing going on, among a few other things. Good reason why many Explorer guys use the smart find screen- subtle hints to target traits with the expanse of the ferrous scale. It'll sit along side my GT, and either one can try to convince me which comes out to play for the day.

When it comes to these Minelabs, where VLF technology has been pushed to the limits, I think the only real way to see gains in depth or unmasking is by proper coil choice for the given site. Luckily the Sovereign has many aftermarket options at an affordable price to choose from. To me that's all it takes to give one machine or the other top end machine the edge on any given day- proper coil, meaning proper tool for the site...

Fixing Sovereigns- I'd expect the Elite and GT to be fixed for some time to come, both using the same hardware and such. Figure some dealers will have new GT stock about a year out from now maybe, so with a 3 year warranty figure 4 or 5 years from now they still need to fix warrantied machines, and I'd expect them to continue to do so for some time after that. Not much to go wrong with these Sovereigns anyway. Just like a child, don't let it get wet, don't let it get cold, and don't lock it in a hot car.

 

[Birdseed]

I even hate cars with no window cranks so I can't put the windows down without having keys in the car. How is electric windows an improvement then if I can't do that?

Critter

It's all about price, electric window winders cost less than mechanical cranks, you get what you're told you can have. No more, no less

Pete

 

[Critterhunter]

Yep, and a guy a while back posted an interesting view on it- The physical controls of a GT are more expensive to buy and install, versus a keypad with a ribbon and a LCD screen. He went on to expound on the benefits of linear resolution with "old style" analog like controls, because he worked in the military if I remember right on planes or something like that and so should know of where he speaks. Really interesting thought.

I just think that there is a class of people out there who want to "feel" that dial or switch between their fingers. Just look at the MXT/M6 and certain other machines. Even with an LCD screen they still use those analog style dials because some people just prefer it for fast/quick/dirty/easy low hassle adjustments, and also might be because of the linear scaling aspects for precise adjustments too.

I'm not an "analog man", as the new Joe Walsch song with Jeff Lynne sings about, because I grew up in the digital age, but in certain respects I'm just young enough to have one foot in the analog world and one in the digital. For some things I prefer digital, but for others I prefer analog, such as the tiny little details analog-like audio can give you that over processed digital can't.

The Sovereign is a digital machine though, but the audio is very old school analog-like in long detail and very robust to hear things at fringe depth, yet with the numerous digital tone alerts of a Minelab. I've said it before but I'll say it again, best of both worlds IMO. "By ear" hunting will always be king to many. Another aspect of the audio and VDI not being overly processed is no lag between the VDI and the audio report. This machine has a very "instant" VDI response, as the two aren't separated and out of phase with each other like can happen sometimes if they are sent through layers of heavy processing.

Some days I want digital, some days I want "analog". Having machines that do both is the best way to cover any given mood on any particular day is the way I look at it. There is a machine out there for anybody's particular tastes. They just have to "sample the wine" enough until they find it. Lord knows I did my share over the years, of both detectors AND wine...

 

[ML]

I have to agree that the CTX, Explorers and E-Tracs are a better detector than the Sovereign, that is if you know how to use them and have the patience to do this. Many I have seen over the years don't have the patience to learn and understand the Sovereign too and have a problem with them. The Sovereign is a much easier detector to use then the CTX and plan on always having a Sovereign GT around even though I never used my GT last year as I was trying to learn the CTX which there is a lot to learn, but seen some of the things it is capable of doing and it is impressive, at least to me it is. The Sovereign is a great detector and hard to see it go, but this is progress and there is changes to be made and feel Minelab will be working more at making the E-Trac and the CTX more advanced and maybe a less costly to us.


Rick - Putting "Minelab" and "maybe less costly" in the same sentence sounds like wishful thinking. But it would be nice....

 

[Birdseed]

Critter
I know how you feel, I am radio ham and even though the modern marvels available can resolve digital signals inaudible to the human ear I still love my old analog sets. I now have quite a collection of operational tube driven equipment. The thing is, when it breaks I can fix it. I can get most of the parts I need from a junked TV set. The modern marvels are only good for the garbage skip if they break and are more than a few years old because you cannot get chips for them, a decent electrical storm can write off a modern ham station and that is without a direct hit. The older analog equipment is much more robust and repairable to boot.

I hope my Sovereign holds up for a few years yet. I can fix knobs and pots etc but no-one can fix a microprocessor if it is no longer stocked

Peter

 

[Critterhunter]

There are a number of machines, ones known for having certain traits or abilities, that have only increased in price and rarity after they were canned. 6000 Pro XL or certain Compus models for an example, or the Whites Eagle or whatever units prior to the XLT. With proper care these units will continue to live on for years to come. Just look at some of the guys who have a large collection of even older detectors that they fancy for a hunt here or there. More about what you can do with a machine than what a machine can do for you IMO. Just like giving somebody an expensive guitar that doesn't know how to play. That guitar might be capable of some much better music, but a guy with a cheap dime store one who knows how to play will do a much better job.

There's a large group of enthusiastic vinyl record people out there these days. In fact, think I recently heard that old record players and records are starting to go through the roof in price. Little tiny aspects of the music that the right ear can pick up on, that digital just washes away in it's attempt to clean it up, which in the end washes out some of the finer nuances of what the artist was doing.

The other day I headed up to the bar. Been several years since I really spent any kind of time sitting around in a bar. Maybe once or twice a year as of late. But anyway, noticed a curious thing...People sitting around drinking their drink and not much conversation going on, because many of them were staring at their smart phones surfing the web. Have seen the same thing at the beach. Why sit there for that beautiful view when you could have just stayed home and plucked away on your smart phone? Life is passing them by around them while they have their nose buried in a screen. I've got text messaging turned off on my phone and also web access. Less temptation that way. All I want my phone to do is ring when somebody calls, and I don't even have voice mail turned on because if I don't answer I don't want to talk to them, and I don't want them leaving me a message where I'm obligated to call them back. Same deal with texting. If they can't say it then I don't want it typed to me. Almost like going back in technology to the old Morris code days to me.

 

[Ytcoinshooter]

I'm a relative newcomer to the sovereign and I plan on hanging onto mine. Primarily I'm enjoying it on the beach very much. I can see using it more in the farm fields and I plan on trying it with the S8 in some turf and wooded sites this year. I loaded up on coils and related accessory parts. Mine is mint, has the grey rubber 1/2 boots and I always keep the control box covered. I was one of those who tried the Sov (elite) back in 2002 (I think) and couldn't stand it because I thought I could use it like my target ID Whites and Fishers. Kept it 2 weeks and sold it. Since then I've become a tone ID hunter (Whites XLT, DFX, V3i). However the tones of the Sov (for me) are very different. I can tell iron, foil, bottle caps apart the best. Gold rings and coins sound great (if not deep in red & black sand where I've witnessed tone degradation) with the gold being a bit lower smooth tone than the high coins . Using my Excalibur 2 has helped me understand the sounds because I'm scooping all targets except obvious iron. It's a unique detector IMHO.
HH-Bruce
15 x 12 SEF, 15 WOT, 10 tornado, S8, 5" excelerator