Tony in FL
Member
Nice job and thanks for your efforts! I have an Excalibur but am considering also getting a Sovereign GT. I have never used one so I really enjoyed the video.
Find's Treasure Forums
Welcome to Find's Treasure Forums, Guests!
You are viewing this forums as a guest which limits you to read only status.
Only registered members may post stories, questions, classifieds, reply to other posts, contact other members using built in messaging and use many other features found on these forums.
Why not register and join us today? It's free! (We don't share your email addresses with anyone.) We keep email addresses of our users to protect them and others from bad people posting things they shouldn't.
Click here to register!
Need Support Help?
Cannot log in?, click here to have new password emailed to you
New Sovereign GT Video
- Thread starter Des D
- Start date
Critterhunter
New member
Crazyman, so now you are further saying that Iron Mask OFF not only cleans up falsing from minerals or rough ground, but that Iron Mask On has no more ability to see a coin mixed with Iron? Exactly the reverse in my case, and I have yet to lay hands on ANY machine that can come close at producing perfect or only slightly averaged coin IDs on coins in iron, as well as when mixed with pull tabs. Believe me, I do this kind of extensive and repetitive testing on every machine I own. Not even my Explorers could hold a candle to what I see the GT doing in those tests. I'd further add that none of the machines I've owned with the fastest recovery speed in the world could see coins next to iron that the GT can't. Recovery speed is a worthless hyped feature of detectors IMO. It's only advantage is to be able to swing the coil like your launching a golf ball and still see both targets to some degree. With proper coil placement and investigation recovery speed simply does not matter, and when the two targets become "one" in that the coil's field is for the most part being washed in both targets at once to some degree, that's where I see the Sovereign leave any other machine I've owned in the dust. It is much more able to derive perfect or at least only slightly averaged target IDs on the coin. Sure, there are some specific orientations of the coin in relation to iron or something like a tab that will cause severe averaging, but it's far less common for that to happen compared to any other machine I've ever ran these kinds of tests on. I've also pulled a silver or two out of worked out spots I've pounded with my Explorers yet missed. The GT found me coins that weren't even all that deep, 2 or 3"...Yet had iron laying right there in the hole with them and even had rust stains on the coin. I have pulled coins out of iron with other machines. I have not seen it done in as severe of cases as I have seen and tested on the GT.
But, as said, we are going to have to agree to disagree. I see our debate only running in endless circles here. I will say one other thing. Your point about a nail being above a coin is a valid one in certain situations. In RC circles concerning live video feed via RC planes to a ground station for viewing flight from the plane's point of view, I have read up on various aspects of antenna dynamics to get up to speed on certain technological aspects of them. There is a thing called "line of sight" in relation to that. It involves the physical properties of certain frequencies to do things like bend around obstructions or through walls. Point being that line of site is a very real thing that in a way related to coil dynamics of the magnetic field being generated. It can not see past one object and onto another. The orientation of a nail directly above and at a fair distance from the coin will preclude the coil's magnetic field from ever touching the coin. However, with close proximity to each other there are other ways this is able to happen. Some attribute the magnetic field of a coil as being able to bend around certain objects, at least for a short distance when deflected. Regardless of it's that true or not, there are other factors involved. Namely, coil placement, or if not that then how the machine is able to pull apart a signal from two targets it is essentially "seeing" at the same time in overlap. That's the key factor concerning the Sovereign IMO.
But, as said, we are going to have to agree to disagree. I see our debate only running in endless circles here. I will say one other thing. Your point about a nail being above a coin is a valid one in certain situations. In RC circles concerning live video feed via RC planes to a ground station for viewing flight from the plane's point of view, I have read up on various aspects of antenna dynamics to get up to speed on certain technological aspects of them. There is a thing called "line of sight" in relation to that. It involves the physical properties of certain frequencies to do things like bend around obstructions or through walls. Point being that line of site is a very real thing that in a way related to coil dynamics of the magnetic field being generated. It can not see past one object and onto another. The orientation of a nail directly above and at a fair distance from the coin will preclude the coil's magnetic field from ever touching the coin. However, with close proximity to each other there are other ways this is able to happen. Some attribute the magnetic field of a coil as being able to bend around certain objects, at least for a short distance when deflected. Regardless of it's that true or not, there are other factors involved. Namely, coil placement, or if not that then how the machine is able to pull apart a signal from two targets it is essentially "seeing" at the same time in overlap. That's the key factor concerning the Sovereign IMO.
Critterhunter
New member
Somebody just emailed me about this point and I wanted to bring it up in public...
Iron Mask *DOES* have the ability to pull coin signals out of trash, and turning it OFF will lesson that. Are you telling me that the only function of turning Iron Mask On is because it makes the machine more noisy? What point would that be then? The fact is that with Iron Mask On it is more apt to allow the good signals through. Otherwise there wouldn't be much point in providing that ability both ways, would there? Why put a switch on a machine that only makes it more noisy and prone to falses off ground minerals. The fact is that with it ON the Sovereign is doing it's very best to report any good signals mixed with the other junk in the ground. To think otherwise doesn't make sense to me at all, unless you can realisticly explain why that function would then even exist in the first place.
Iron Mask *DOES* have the ability to pull coin signals out of trash, and turning it OFF will lesson that. Are you telling me that the only function of turning Iron Mask On is because it makes the machine more noisy? What point would that be then? The fact is that with Iron Mask On it is more apt to allow the good signals through. Otherwise there wouldn't be much point in providing that ability both ways, would there? Why put a switch on a machine that only makes it more noisy and prone to falses off ground minerals. The fact is that with it ON the Sovereign is doing it's very best to report any good signals mixed with the other junk in the ground. To think otherwise doesn't make sense to me at all, unless you can realisticly explain why that function would then even exist in the first place.
I am that somebody .......and I would like you to tell me that if I have Iron Mask OFF , and I have a coin on the same plane as was shown in Des' demonstration , that I will NOT hear the coin ...... I will do some more experiments to check what you are saying about Iron Mask ON being the better setting of the two when a coin is next to iron...... I say being the BETTER setting , not the ONLY setting to have in order to hear the coin ..... I'm not disagreeing the fact that Iron Mask ON is the better setting ......I'm disagreeing that you will NOT hear the coin next to iron with Iron Mask OFF !!.......... Please give me your views on this ...Please remember , I' not disagreeing with you , because I'm not sure yet, but I AM sure that I am hearing a coin sitting next to a 12D common nail and it matters not whether I am 2, 4 , 6 or 8 inches away from it ....... Jim
BTW ...YES , I said that so far I see that Iron Mask OFF cleans up the signal and makes hunting a lot less noisy ......For what reason , I am not convinced of yet , but I will research it more and experiment more ....So far I see it as more of a filter , that perhaps WILL have a result of less depth ......Jim
BTW ...YES , I said that so far I see that Iron Mask OFF cleans up the signal and makes hunting a lot less noisy ......For what reason , I am not convinced of yet , but I will research it more and experiment more ....So far I see it as more of a filter , that perhaps WILL have a result of less depth ......Jim
So I don't understand what he is doing to make that happen. BUT DON'T GET A FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY IF YOU CAN'T MAKE THE QUARTER DISAPPEAR. If you put the nail and the quarter in the ground it's a whole different story. Then it all depends on what you hit first and the depth of one in relation to the other and your swing speed. and the coil size and maybe the ground too. I'm just talking tones here not meter readings. Meter dysfunction is a whole different subject. Yeah they lie too. I have done the same test in ground (with iron mask on) and the tornado 10 in coil and the quarter disappeared ( a null) or I got a mixed signal, but not always. A lot depends on the proximity and depth of both the quarter and the nail doing this test and the direction and speed of the swing. If both come under the coil at the same time (fast swing speed) and they are real close and on the same level you most likely you will get a null, but not always. If the quarter is deeper than the nail you most likely will get a null . If the quarter is shallower or above the nail you will most likely get a dig me tone. Sometimes it will be a mixed tone, sometimes indicating bad. If you swing your coil slowly and the nail is shallower and comes under the coil before the quarter you will usually get a null and you will get no change when the quarter come under the coil., but not always. If you swing your coil slowly and the quarter is shallower and come under the coil before the nail you will usually get a mixed tone, it will not null, but not always. Sometimes you will get a good tone. I have had better success using my 8in concentric in this test. If I swing the coil really slow and I hit the quarter first I get a dig me tone most of the time. That is why I stopped using my tornado in dirt and most of my hunting, but not always. My personal testing has proved to me what I knew after my first couple of years detecting with a number of different detectors. Bells and whistles are nice to have and will improve your chances if used correctly, but not always. Probably more important is hours spent using good hunting techniques with your particular detector. Contrary to what some imply it is, the detector game is not an exact science. Not with the GT and not with any other known detector on the market today.
Will you be successful -------not always. The really crappy thing is you don't know when you miss or how close you came. And maybe you didn't miss at all because there was nothing there to find.
Will you be successful -------not always. The really crappy thing is you don't know when you miss or how close you came. And maybe you didn't miss at all because there was nothing there to find.
Don ,
I put the quarter and the nail on a board , just as Des did when he demonstrated the Sovereign ......I also put he coin on the ground , and got the same results....I still hear the coin .......Try it yourself if you don't believe me .....All you need is a coin and a nail ......Put them side by side , and put them whatever didstance you want .....Turn off your discrimination and your notch ....and sweep....Switch it from All Metal , to Iron Mask ON and Iron Mask off ...... Put your Sensitivity on Auto ,or anywhere else you would like ....Put it in band one or two .....I don't care where you put your settings really ....Sweep over both the coin and the nail in ANY direction and tell me that you can get the coin to go silent ...... I thought that maybe I didn't have my Soveriegn set up right , so I switched things around and even went from the board like Des had , to the ground ......Same results .... The only way I could get no signal from the coin and the nail was to turn the volume all the way down ......Check it for yourself .....Jim
If anyone can get the coin to go silent in this demonstration , please tell me what my settings have to be to get the coin to NOT sound off .....Thanks, Jim
BTW ,
As far as a "False sence of security........If I do the same demonstration as someone else does , with the same detector , and the same itemse used , and I come up with different resutlts , what am I to belieive ? .....or what am I not to believe ? This demonstration was not shown IN the ground ...It was shown on top of a piece of wood ....Jim
I put the quarter and the nail on a board , just as Des did when he demonstrated the Sovereign ......I also put he coin on the ground , and got the same results....I still hear the coin .......Try it yourself if you don't believe me .....All you need is a coin and a nail ......Put them side by side , and put them whatever didstance you want .....Turn off your discrimination and your notch ....and sweep....Switch it from All Metal , to Iron Mask ON and Iron Mask off ...... Put your Sensitivity on Auto ,or anywhere else you would like ....Put it in band one or two .....I don't care where you put your settings really ....Sweep over both the coin and the nail in ANY direction and tell me that you can get the coin to go silent ...... I thought that maybe I didn't have my Soveriegn set up right , so I switched things around and even went from the board like Des had , to the ground ......Same results .... The only way I could get no signal from the coin and the nail was to turn the volume all the way down ......Check it for yourself .....Jim
If anyone can get the coin to go silent in this demonstration , please tell me what my settings have to be to get the coin to NOT sound off .....Thanks, Jim
BTW ,
As far as a "False sence of security........If I do the same demonstration as someone else does , with the same detector , and the same itemse used , and I come up with different resutlts , what am I to belieive ? .....or what am I not to believe ? This demonstration was not shown IN the ground ...It was shown on top of a piece of wood ....Jim
You can't read. I didn't say it had no effect. I said on "in ground targets" in "mineralized ground" there is nothing magical about it. It is no better than any detector I've used and worse than some I have used and the the advantages of turning iron mask off in "mineralized ground" outweighs any "slight" improvement in masking with it on. I said it has absolutely no effect in these silly air tests you guys do when both targets are on the same plane. Dog and pony tricks my friend. If you say these air tests are a true representation of iron masking effects then try this test with the Sovereign in the video below. The Sovereign won't hit a coin surrounded by only 3 nails if one is angled or turned sideways.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsX1MSCFl2I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsX1MSCFl2I
Crazyman ,
I just tried putting the same quarter inside of 3 angled nails .....One nail at 12, and one at 4 and one at 8 o'clock ..... Just as you said , the coin could not be read ....It didn't matter if Iron Mask was on or off ...... Interesting ..... Thanks for sharing .....Jim
Kered,
Something that you will be interested in hearing .....I did the same test with Iron discriminated out on the E Trac .....Same circle of nails , same quarter, same distance .....The quarter DID sound , but was broken ......
These air tricks may be smoke and mirrors, but in this smoke and mirror trick , the E Trac showed that it could read the coin circled by 3 nails .......Not very well , but heard it just the same ...These nails were only 1/2 and inch away from the coin ...... .Heard it much better with one nail than the Sovereign did by a long shot .... So this could be contrued as the E Trac desciminates iron better than the Sovereign as Kered was saying ? ....... Believe what you will ...... When I can do experiments on my own , and see with my own two eyes what the results are , I know what to believe and what is hype !!....... Jim
Critter ,
I took one nail away and tried the same test , and in this test the Sovereign did try to sound but was having trouble .....It WAS a tiny bit more clear when running Iron Mask ON than with Iron Mask OFF ......... Not much , but still more clear .... The E trac had less of a problem sounding the coin than the Sovereign at both Iron Mask ON or OFF .....Jim
I just tried putting the same quarter inside of 3 angled nails .....One nail at 12, and one at 4 and one at 8 o'clock ..... Just as you said , the coin could not be read ....It didn't matter if Iron Mask was on or off ...... Interesting ..... Thanks for sharing .....Jim
Kered,
Something that you will be interested in hearing .....I did the same test with Iron discriminated out on the E Trac .....Same circle of nails , same quarter, same distance .....The quarter DID sound , but was broken ......
These air tricks may be smoke and mirrors, but in this smoke and mirror trick , the E Trac showed that it could read the coin circled by 3 nails .......Not very well , but heard it just the same ...These nails were only 1/2 and inch away from the coin ...... .Heard it much better with one nail than the Sovereign did by a long shot .... So this could be contrued as the E Trac desciminates iron better than the Sovereign as Kered was saying ? ....... Believe what you will ...... When I can do experiments on my own , and see with my own two eyes what the results are , I know what to believe and what is hype !!....... Jim
Critter ,
I took one nail away and tried the same test , and in this test the Sovereign did try to sound but was having trouble .....It WAS a tiny bit more clear when running Iron Mask ON than with Iron Mask OFF ......... Not much , but still more clear .... The E trac had less of a problem sounding the coin than the Sovereign at both Iron Mask ON or OFF .....Jim
Whoa. Maybe I didn't make myself clear--I'm on your side. Did I say it wrong??
I thought I had agreed with you one hundred and ten percent. It's beyond my understanding how he didn't get a tone from the quarter using his test. My point was that most wouldn't get his result in an air test just like you didn't. I went on to point out that in my testing experience there was a very good chance that the quarter might not reveal itself in an in-ground test even with iron mask on. .And the reason for that is because of the variables involved. I'm not saying that iron mask doesn't do it's job, I have had ample evidence it does--most of the time and under most hunting situations. My problem is people hanging their hats on this stuff because somebody tested it and said they were satisfied with their results. Personally I never turn iron mask off .because of where and how I hunt. The rest of my post was to make my point --which is--- with all the variables involved test results can be misleading . And my final point was this hobby is full of wishful thinking and techno talk and that is part of what makes some of this stuff so entertaining. People can believe what they want. One of the things I happen to believe is that some places do really get hunted out and all their detector dial diddling is not going find them anything
Did I explain myself this time? HH. Don
I thought I had agreed with you one hundred and ten percent. It's beyond my understanding how he didn't get a tone from the quarter using his test. My point was that most wouldn't get his result in an air test just like you didn't. I went on to point out that in my testing experience there was a very good chance that the quarter might not reveal itself in an in-ground test even with iron mask on. .And the reason for that is because of the variables involved. I'm not saying that iron mask doesn't do it's job, I have had ample evidence it does--most of the time and under most hunting situations. My problem is people hanging their hats on this stuff because somebody tested it and said they were satisfied with their results. Personally I never turn iron mask off .because of where and how I hunt. The rest of my post was to make my point --which is--- with all the variables involved test results can be misleading . And my final point was this hobby is full of wishful thinking and techno talk and that is part of what makes some of this stuff so entertaining. People can believe what they want. One of the things I happen to believe is that some places do really get hunted out and all their detector dial diddling is not going find them anything
Did I explain myself this time? HH. Don
Don,
Thanks for the clarification ....I think I may have read your reply wrong ? ........Sorry bout that ..... The REAL eye openner for me what when Crazyman spoke of putting 3 nails around the coin .....I really didn't think that would be a problem , especially after watching the Omega 8000 video's that i posted ....Low and Behold was I in for an awakening !!.....NOT A SOUND to be heard !!!..... That Omega test had nails placed around coins like they were building a house or something !!..... and it still hit !!!........ I really don't think that any of us that own Sovereigns even need convincing on what a great machine it is ......I would NOT however want a newbie coming along and getting disgusted because his Sovereign doesn't do what someone says it will do ..... Lets face it , if I told you that I made a coil that would reach down 3 ft and pull rings out at that depth, and made you a movie to prove it , and you bought this coil from me for $250 , you would expect DEEP targets after seeing the movie I made for you wouldn't you ? ...... Now you buy the coil and find that it only goes down 5 inches and you barely hear a target at 6 inches ....How are you going to feel ? ......Let's tell it like it is ...and YES , I do agree that things will change once everything is in position in the ground , even more different because of my soil conditions compared to YOUR soil conditions ..... The point I was making was that I was comparing what I saw in the video , and it had NOTHING to do with soil conditions .... I could NOT replicate what was done in the video .... I triied it with different settings , coins, nails , etc ......It mattered not .....That coin rang out every time ........When I put those 3 nails around it like Crazyman said , sure as sure could be SILENCE !!....."Believe 1/2 of what you see , and none of what you hear !!" .....Thanks again for posting ....Jim
Thanks for the clarification ....I think I may have read your reply wrong ? ........Sorry bout that ..... The REAL eye openner for me what when Crazyman spoke of putting 3 nails around the coin .....I really didn't think that would be a problem , especially after watching the Omega 8000 video's that i posted ....Low and Behold was I in for an awakening !!.....NOT A SOUND to be heard !!!..... That Omega test had nails placed around coins like they were building a house or something !!..... and it still hit !!!........ I really don't think that any of us that own Sovereigns even need convincing on what a great machine it is ......I would NOT however want a newbie coming along and getting disgusted because his Sovereign doesn't do what someone says it will do ..... Lets face it , if I told you that I made a coil that would reach down 3 ft and pull rings out at that depth, and made you a movie to prove it , and you bought this coil from me for $250 , you would expect DEEP targets after seeing the movie I made for you wouldn't you ? ...... Now you buy the coil and find that it only goes down 5 inches and you barely hear a target at 6 inches ....How are you going to feel ? ......Let's tell it like it is ...and YES , I do agree that things will change once everything is in position in the ground , even more different because of my soil conditions compared to YOUR soil conditions ..... The point I was making was that I was comparing what I saw in the video , and it had NOTHING to do with soil conditions .... I could NOT replicate what was done in the video .... I triied it with different settings , coins, nails , etc ......It mattered not .....That coin rang out every time ........When I put those 3 nails around it like Crazyman said , sure as sure could be SILENCE !!....."Believe 1/2 of what you see , and none of what you hear !!" .....Thanks again for posting ....Jim
Jim, the point I've been trying to make to some people ( not you because you learned this on your own) is that air tests when testing masking capabilities of a certain detector are useless as are depth comparisons. I had a Whites detector that would air test a dime at 14 inches all day long but once ground minerals were involved 6 - 6 1/2 inches was max. I am in no way saying the Sovereigns are bad when it comes to iron masking I'm just saying the iron mask option is a bit over hyped especially in mineralized ground. The iron mask switch on the GT is the one feature I use the most and is the one I like the best for difficult ground and when hunting in thick iron. I turn iron mask off in iron because of it's excellent iron discrimination. I can pick out deep coin signals much better in iron when there is not a bunch of chattering or falsing on hot rocks and iron to wade through to hear that soft deep signal. The GT is the only detector I will use now in iron infested ghost towns , on the beach or in a park.
I am a newbie to metal detecting. Just got my Sovereign GT and also just ordered Original Gray ghost headphones which are a nominal 150 ohm impedance. Minelab accessory headphones for the GT are a 100 ohms impedance manufacture by Koss. Not many 32 ohm headphones listed for metal detecting. Will my combination be okay, and how would I know if they are not?
Don,
When I was a teenager , I knew it all !!!......Then as time went by, I realized that I DID know it all .....ALL that a teenager could know a tthat point in life ..... I can remember my father showing me lessons in life and explaining many things in life along with real world examples ..... To this day I don't know any other person who had the prediction abilities that my father had ....He was INCREDIBLE ....He could tell you the outcome of so many situations , and it was like he was a fortune teller or something ..,,,, As I got older , there were some circumstances where we just didn't see eye to eye on things ....Nothing to argue about , just differences in opinion .....I can remember like it was yesterday saying to my Pop " Pop, I love you to no end, but we just have to agree to disagree on some subjects " " Neither one of us have to be right , or wrong , we just have to agree that we disagree and move on " ..... He looked at me with a smile and told me that he loved me , and he said that his job was done , and that I finally got the picture ...He told me that it was not always about being right , that it was more how you presented yourself to others , and how much you could learn from LISTENNING to other points of view ..... I carry that with me to this day, and hope I've done him proud along the way ...... He's gone now , and there isn't a day goes by when I don't think of him ....... Jim
When I was a teenager , I knew it all !!!......Then as time went by, I realized that I DID know it all .....ALL that a teenager could know a tthat point in life ..... I can remember my father showing me lessons in life and explaining many things in life along with real world examples ..... To this day I don't know any other person who had the prediction abilities that my father had ....He was INCREDIBLE ....He could tell you the outcome of so many situations , and it was like he was a fortune teller or something ..,,,, As I got older , there were some circumstances where we just didn't see eye to eye on things ....Nothing to argue about , just differences in opinion .....I can remember like it was yesterday saying to my Pop " Pop, I love you to no end, but we just have to agree to disagree on some subjects " " Neither one of us have to be right , or wrong , we just have to agree that we disagree and move on " ..... He looked at me with a smile and told me that he loved me , and he said that his job was done , and that I finally got the picture ...He told me that it was not always about being right , that it was more how you presented yourself to others , and how much you could learn from LISTENNING to other points of view ..... I carry that with me to this day, and hope I've done him proud along the way ...... He's gone now , and there isn't a day goes by when I don't think of him ....... Jim
While these test are good to compare detectors, they can not duplicate actual conditions. Lay the nails on a brick and there's few detectors that will pass the test. Is a matter of fact, I've yet to find it. And when I do, I will buy one. Only way I've found to combat masking is with a small coil. What helps the sovereign in this situation is the DD coil and the fact that it can be hunted slow to pick coins out of the trash. I do much better with a slow detector in an area with a lot of iron. I think this is one of the reasons the explorer and etrac are so successful to. Bottom line is, I really like ML detectors but I'm not too crazy about the company. I guess you can have it all.