Neil in West Jersey
New member
Mike Hillis said:
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My take on the VX3
- Thread starter Larry (IL)
- Start date
metdetdevl
New member
Mike Hillis
Well-known member
I would think it would be a standard feature for selectable frequency units. Especially since it adds so much to the capability of the unit in modern trash. Modern trash carpets the ground in the city environments. Foil and aluminum of all thicknesses and shapes along with alloyed steel bottle caps. Hunting in modern trash is different than hunting old home sites where all you need is good ferrous/non-ferrous discrimination. Hunting in modern trash requires more aluminum resolution if you are after aluminum range targets. One of the reasons the (brand name) does so poorly at 18.75kHz in modern trash is that there is no ability to use the expanded resolution inherent in that frequency. The 15kHz single frequency of the DFX allows more than double resolution in the aluminum range with normalization off. The V3i's 22kHz does the same thing. I think it will be a miss for the VX3 to not have this feature, which is actually a trade mark of Whites selectable frequency machines.
HH
Mike
HH
Mike
Hi Mike: I'm a two year V3i guy still diggin tons of alum slaw,tabs, and foil, in our trashy parks,and schools yards in sunny Pa.Can you expand this thread to include you thought process,and the settings used to rule out alum.trsh.vs goodys.Granted nothing is 100% but I often feel I'm missing something based on your thread about trademark abilities of the Whites V3i........Thanks for any hints you mite pass along........Jack from Pa.
Mike Hillis
Well-known member
Leojack,
Lets use the nickel as a starting point. With normalization ON, the visual id of a nickel, it's peak signal, is around a 20 vid. With normalization turned OFF, the visual id of a nickel is around a 46 vid. How many alum trash targets id'ed around the same normalized nickel reading of a 20? I can think of one, a particular group of staytabs or rounded square tabs that read just like nickels, or bounce enough into the nickel range that they become a bother when you run into a place where they are plentiful. What about some of the beaver tails, and various can slaw pieces. With the increased resolution with normalization turned off, those new tabs are going to read closer to 50 than 46, the beaver tails are going to read closer to 40 than 46. There is just going to be a lot less targets with a peak vdi response of 46. You can see where you can go with this. In the midst of all that nickel range aluminum I can now focus more on that nickel, being more confident that I'm going to recover a nickel and not a tab. There is a lot that can be down with this if you take it to ladies gold rings which normally read in the medium to high foil range.
The V3i goes one step further. The signagraph resolution can be increased by taking it off it's default width of 7 vdi numbers and turned down to 2 or 3 vdi numbers ( I found 1 number to be a little to much resolution ). Now I have increased vdi resolution along with increased signagraph resolution. Now when I've trended a site to ladies rings, I can concentrate on that expanded 28 to 40 vid range and looked for tight signagraph groupings and cut my trash digging for diggings sake to near 0. Sure I will still recover some trash, but its focused, gold trash.
One more thing....audio. Once you've increased your vdi resolution, and in the case of the V3i, the signagraph resolution, then next thing is to set the audio to alert you when you locate a target that hits in that range of vdi you are concentrating on. With the V3i, its pretty easy to give those special vdi ranges their own audio pitch. With the Vx3, from what I can tell, you will have to do it like the DFX; Reversed mixed mode.
Reversed Mixed mode: You accept everything. Turn on Mixed Mode. Change the audio pitch to something around or higher than 235. Something that sounds good to your ears but perferably not lower than 235. Turn on Tone id. Then reject those ranges you are focused on. What will happen is that you have tone id giving a low tone for iron, and the regular non-ferrous tones for the rest of the stuff in case you hear something good and still want to chase it, but the areas you are really focused, the ones you rejected, will give you a nice high tone that will stop you in your tracks and say...hey you...you looking for me!
HH
Mike
Lets use the nickel as a starting point. With normalization ON, the visual id of a nickel, it's peak signal, is around a 20 vid. With normalization turned OFF, the visual id of a nickel is around a 46 vid. How many alum trash targets id'ed around the same normalized nickel reading of a 20? I can think of one, a particular group of staytabs or rounded square tabs that read just like nickels, or bounce enough into the nickel range that they become a bother when you run into a place where they are plentiful. What about some of the beaver tails, and various can slaw pieces. With the increased resolution with normalization turned off, those new tabs are going to read closer to 50 than 46, the beaver tails are going to read closer to 40 than 46. There is just going to be a lot less targets with a peak vdi response of 46. You can see where you can go with this. In the midst of all that nickel range aluminum I can now focus more on that nickel, being more confident that I'm going to recover a nickel and not a tab. There is a lot that can be down with this if you take it to ladies gold rings which normally read in the medium to high foil range.
The V3i goes one step further. The signagraph resolution can be increased by taking it off it's default width of 7 vdi numbers and turned down to 2 or 3 vdi numbers ( I found 1 number to be a little to much resolution ). Now I have increased vdi resolution along with increased signagraph resolution. Now when I've trended a site to ladies rings, I can concentrate on that expanded 28 to 40 vid range and looked for tight signagraph groupings and cut my trash digging for diggings sake to near 0. Sure I will still recover some trash, but its focused, gold trash.
One more thing....audio. Once you've increased your vdi resolution, and in the case of the V3i, the signagraph resolution, then next thing is to set the audio to alert you when you locate a target that hits in that range of vdi you are concentrating on. With the V3i, its pretty easy to give those special vdi ranges their own audio pitch. With the Vx3, from what I can tell, you will have to do it like the DFX; Reversed mixed mode.
Reversed Mixed mode: You accept everything. Turn on Mixed Mode. Change the audio pitch to something around or higher than 235. Something that sounds good to your ears but perferably not lower than 235. Turn on Tone id. Then reject those ranges you are focused on. What will happen is that you have tone id giving a low tone for iron, and the regular non-ferrous tones for the rest of the stuff in case you hear something good and still want to chase it, but the areas you are really focused, the ones you rejected, will give you a nice high tone that will stop you in your tracks and say...hey you...you looking for me!
HH
Mike
PokerShark
Member
leojack said:
Leo,
I have learned that the Polar Plot is one of the best V3i tools when it comes to making dig/or no dig decisions. I would say 9 out of 10 times it was dead on accurate. If you see straight lines it is not trash. It may be a sprinkler head, or a bottle cap, but if it is a pull tab or foil you will see scrambled lines in every case. Even if the coin is in an odd position like on its edge you will get some wavy lines. The Polar Plot has kept me out of the trash and into the goodies. When I ignore it or forget to analize do I find myself digging some trash. Nothing is 100% but the PP is close.
There is a great example of this on YouTube. The guy is giving the VDIs of each coin type (penny, dime, quarter....) and he uses the PP in the example. Yes, it is an airtest and not the most accurate VDI, but they are close.
The Shark
Mike and Shark there is no argument with what either of you said. However, I don't use polar plot or analysis screen. I would bet most people don't use the non normalized mode. If you have the V3i you have the option. If you have a VX3 you don't. Many of the options Mike mentioned, I use in all my programs. The VX3 wasn't intended to replace the V3i. I do think it will replace the DFX. Remember what I think doesn't mean anything.
Now at $1199, if you add the Whites NIMH system at $135, that makes about a $165 difference between the VX3 ans V3i. For that small difference I would get the extra features, but that is me. Then there is the price difference of the coils, that's about $80 or so. But then some people prefer the 950.
I really think the intention was to provide a deep seeking machine for people who need a smooth operating machine that is harder to get in trouble with, more turn on and go.
The VX3 is not for everyone, but neither is the V3i. [size=large]Get the one that fits your needs and then go hunting.[/size]
See you on the forum.
Now at $1199, if you add the Whites NIMH system at $135, that makes about a $165 difference between the VX3 ans V3i. For that small difference I would get the extra features, but that is me. Then there is the price difference of the coils, that's about $80 or so. But then some people prefer the 950.
I really think the intention was to provide a deep seeking machine for people who need a smooth operating machine that is harder to get in trouble with, more turn on and go.
The VX3 is not for everyone, but neither is the V3i. [size=large]Get the one that fits your needs and then go hunting.[/size]
See you on the forum.
Neil in West Jersey
New member
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?66,1319867
Mike Hillis
Well-known member
Hi Rob,
We could do a survey and find out how many folks use the polar plot (even though you don't) and how many folks use the Normalization Off feature (even though you don't).
I know we are just jawing about a new detector and putting forth our opinions and likes and dislikes. But you never know....there may be someone who counts that is reading this and saying to him or herself, "you know, they are right...we should have this or that feature....or that coil...or that "whatever it is".
Plus it is fun just to discuss stuff just for the sake of discussing it.
All in fun and part of the hobby.
HH
Mike
We could do a survey and find out how many folks use the polar plot (even though you don't) and how many folks use the Normalization Off feature (even though you don't).
I know we are just jawing about a new detector and putting forth our opinions and likes and dislikes. But you never know....there may be someone who counts that is reading this and saying to him or herself, "you know, they are right...we should have this or that feature....or that coil...or that "whatever it is".
Plus it is fun just to discuss stuff just for the sake of discussing it.
All in fun and part of the hobby.
HH
Mike
Mike Hillis
Well-known member
That is cool, Neal.
I didn't have the numbers on hand for the V3i so I was using the ones for the DFX.
HH
Mike
I didn't have the numbers on hand for the V3i so I was using the ones for the DFX.
HH
Mike
I am going to have to agree with Rob here. Normalization Off, and Analyze modes are not essential to finding deep coins, or shallow ones mixed in the trash. 3 frequency pin point is much more effective and quicker since you have to do it anyhow. I think the VX3 is a lobotomized V3/V3i, but still very capable of finding the good stuff others have passed over. Now where the hell is that new thread anyway? 
Jack
Jack
earthmansurfer
Active member
I like the simplicity of the VX3 but the price doesn't seem right. If you add on the rechargeable batteries and wireless headphones, the savings is around $65.00 (correct me if I'm wrong here). That doesn't add up. Well, that being the case, why not buy the V3i and just not play with as many controls (e.g. Simplify the filter selection process)?
I'm still looking at the V3i...
I'm still looking at the V3i...
The VX3 is $300 less than the V3i, $1499 versus $1199. The V3i at this price doesn't have the WHP either. The person who buys the VX3 probably won't buy the WHP, rechargeable battery system, or D2 coil. I see people with the DFX using the 950 and we know they don't have WHP.
You read the forum but what % of of detecting community are we? I would think that casual hunters are more the norm. There is a niche for the VX3. The only argument would be the rechargeable batteries or lack of.
You read the forum but what % of of detecting community are we? I would think that casual hunters are more the norm. There is a niche for the VX3. The only argument would be the rechargeable batteries or lack of.
You can figure in all the math of a comparison you want (What has been said makes total sense.) but like Rob said "Who is the typical customer?". An up front cost of $1199.00 is a great price for something that does what a VX3 does. As far as the hardware that comes with a V3i.....not one is crucial to great performance.
People saying that the D2 is a must have for the V to be a top machine is only a half truth. (Picking whatever coils you need in the future is something we all do and for me the 950 is a must have coil...outperforms the D2 in some important situations.
Rechargeable system.....That detector could care less what is powering it and as far as what the audio is being sent to....a budget minded person will find smart solutions to both of these "shortcomings". You can say all you want about "Value". ("Budget" rules, at the end of the day, and you are holding a truly great machine.)
People saying that the D2 is a must have for the V to be a top machine is only a half truth. (Picking whatever coils you need in the future is something we all do and for me the 950 is a must have coil...outperforms the D2 in some important situations.
Rechargeable system.....That detector could care less what is powering it and as far as what the audio is being sent to....a budget minded person will find smart solutions to both of these "shortcomings". You can say all you want about "Value". ("Budget" rules, at the end of the day, and you are holding a truly great machine.)
Larry (IL)
Well-known member
Well said Scott and one of the "smart solutions" is to get a couple sets of rechargeable batteries and chargers. 8 to 10 hours per alkaline pack would run into a sizable investment for the active hunter.