MXT Good Compliment to X-Terra 50?

[psyvad]

I've had an X-50 (my first detector) for a bit over a year and used it almost exclusively around school and park playgrounds. Last week I decided to branch out to find something old (pre-1964), so did some research and found an old park and train station. When I gave it a try with my X-50 and the 5x10 DD coil, there was so much junk I couldn't get a clean signal. I was thinking of getting an MXT with an Eclipse 5.3 coil as a 2nd detector to try to help with the trashy site. Is this a good strategy for a 2nd unit or should I wait and save my $$ for an Explorer SE?

Thanks,
Bart

 

[BarnacleBill]

Hi Bart,

Since no one's replied I'll pass along some thoughts that shouldn't be taken as Gospel but simply flesh out the problem, and suggest some directions you could take.

As the X-50 is your first detector and it is a Visual & Tone identification type machine you may have become accustomed to this set of features. Some users become accustomed to or prefer this type of machine and can have difficulty using a non-metered detector. I think that's your first step, to decide a metered vs non-metered possible solution.

In regards to the MXT, I have not owned one, but seldom have I seen the MXT mentioned as being a stellar performer in trashy environments. Those that have owned one with the coil you mention may chime in and provide better info.

In a metered alternative might I suggest the Fisher Edge with 5.75 inch coil, or in a non-metered the Tesoro Compadre with the 5.75 inch coil. The Compadre could be a very reasonably priced stop-gap measure until Minelab releases a smaller coil.

But.....and this is a sobering possibility, you have run across a site that is like the one I detailed in this post:
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?37,427609,427609#msg-427609
If it is, it can be a tough nut to crack with any detector. Sorry I can't give you a black & white answer, but this is one of those times when there is a lot of gray area.

HH
BarnacleBill

 

[Old California]

Hello Bart,

Before you get a second detector, Spend more time with your X-50 using the 5X10" DD coil in trashy areas. You may have not fully learned how to separate good signals from trashy areas with the 5X10" DD coil.

Despite the 5X10" coil appearing to be large, It should get excellent separation from extremely trashy areas. You just need more time hunting under these differcult conditions, Spend more time with the X-50 and 5X10" DD coil in trashy areas before getting a second detector.
I have an X-70 arriving soon, And I do own and use an MXT. Both detectors are fitted with the 5X10" DD coil. The MXT is an excellent detector for trashy areas especially older areas laced with iron, And I'm sure the X-70 will fare well in trashy areas too.

I once used a friends X-50 for a week at an old site, Was so impressed with the X-50 picking up targets from underneath a blanket of iron. I think you just need more time with the X-50 and the 5X10" DD coil, Spend some more time with her at the trashy areas.

HH, Paul (Ca)

 

[BJ in Okla.]

n/t

 

[BarnacleBill]

No, very early production, maybe first run.

HH
BarnacleBill

 

[Jackpine Savage]

Bart whenever I hunted that type of site with the MXT (using the 6x10 DD coil)it was noisy as all get out but the good beeps did come thru the noise which is better than a lot of detectors do. Have not had much time on the X-50 but when using the X70 at that type site it required lowering the sensitivity to half or a little lower to calm the noise down enough to hear good beeps and there were lots of high reading foolers. Also I used the 2 tone mode on the 70.

Tom
PS: as Bill mentioned in his linked post the Edge also did well for me. Still a tad on the noisy side and required reduced sensitivity but the good beeps do come thru the noise and chatter. With any detector that type site require slow steady work and lots of concentration. I don't know how BB tolerated it for those 8 hours.

 

[BJ in Okla.]

10 Inch Elliptical Gold Search Coil


The Minelab 10 inch Elliptical Easysweep Coil is suitable for the Eureka Gold. This coil is the standard Double-D coil that comes with each Eureka Gold detector. An ideal versatile, all purpose coil.

 

[BarnacleBill]

Same housing, different plastic color & sticker. I would not be surprised if they based it on the Eureka coil since that coil was a 6.4, 20 or 60 kHz based machine. The 20kHz frequency would be a good starting point to modify down to 18.75kHz, so that's smart design and manufacturing. Changing the plastic dye color was probably an effort to reduce confusion with dealers stocking coils for different models.

[attachment 45060 k1.jpg]

HH
BarnacleBill

 

[Kelley (Texas)]

n/t

 

[BarnacleBill]

My understanding, which may be wrong, is that there is a microprocessor in the coil itself. How much and what it does is speculation and I'm sure Minelab is not going to reveal much to it's competitors.

If you do have a microprocessor in a coil, there is a huge laundry list of desirable capabilities that you can add in, depending on space for other circuitry, durability, and cost.

i.e Coils can be temperature sensitive, having a digital temperature sensor that talked to the coil microprocessor, which compensated the coil with a tuning scheme would be a good thing.

Just ask any Product Manager, you know you've run across a good electronics engineer when the product is never finished.

HH
BarnacleBill

 

[Bavaria Mike]

The MXT is a very nice machine with many coils to suit your needs and it is easy to use from what I understand, I have an XLT and an XT70 and a few others. I would have better off buying an MXT as I don't care to play with all the settings or even care to have all the options to play with, LOL. I am impressed with the XT70s ability to seperate signals, even with the bigger coils. I hope Minelab blesses us with a better range of coils soon, I need a bigger coil and you need a smaller coil. I understand ML is producing their own coils now, was Coiltek, I hope the ML lab rats are experimenting! HH, Mike

 

[cannonball]

....from six to eight weeks before they get here. If you can expect them for mid-summer (?), say early-July delivery (FOB), then they will ship out in late May. Two weeks prior they are staged and that leaves you with and end production date in early May. That sure is a long time away, but without official ML communication, you can wait for he** to freeze over with a guaranteed time frame. All that extra technology in a smaller package without error falsing is the challenge( pure speculation). They may have one month to build the first run. I think it would be interesting to see if someone could document temperature problems with coils and their function.
It really is not fair to compare machines. The extra secret circuitry in the coils is a black-box/ epoxy ice-cube joke. And the joke is on them because now they have to fit the black box in a smaller package and null out the errors it introduces to the 'oh-so sophisticated 'system'(is that not what it does?). It may have to compensate so heavily that sensitivity is in the dirt. (bad pun)
I am not biased or bashing. They did Coilteck and Sun-Ray a favor, by keeping this 'bludger'at home in it's box. They are married to it. Haw, haw, haw. The honeymoon is over.

No official communication is an easy out for no support. I'll be glad to see a smaller coil too, but I won't need one.
The MXT: they seem to work just fine. The prospecting mode is underrated and overlooked. You might just need a machine for the different types of detecting and where you detect. They all work.
Choose wisely.


editurchases made with the understanding that there will be a Smaller coil this summer as confirmed by 'Dick' , ML USA, must be honored. Of course, since there is no official communication, a disappointment of no coil as promised will only be egg on all sales people, and rotten again on ML. Looking forward to the summer of '07 for a ML win-win! If they were going to stall this white elephant, they should have delivered large coils (easier to make work), now everyone is expecting the hardest to pencile out challenge. Wonder if they ever filled that overqualified opening they had for a 'production associate/technician' in Nov? The clock is ticking,...
I will have to work on some good excuses for the 'postponed' delivery.
How many units have been built/tested/passed QA, so far?

 

[psyvad]

Thanks to all for the advise! I'll be the first to admit I need a lot more practice with the X-50. I was running with the sensitivity at 18. I'll try turning it down a bit and maybe concentrate first at the park across the street rather than near the tracks, which my just be too trashy.

 

[BarnacleBill]

You have continually come across as way over the top concerning a single issue of a small coil. Unless you work for a coil manufacturer, or are attempting to start a coil company this obsession makes no sense. Another new detector, the Pulse Devil is about to enter field trials and has been in development for 5+ years, and my understanding is that the coil will contain active electronics, therefore most likely not open to outside manufacture.

Your position seems to be that as soon as the machine is released "all possible coil combinations that YOU may want" must be released despite any technical challenges or monetary considerations. Or should the producer be prevented from releasing the machine because the coils are proprietary? My feelings are that the people that are awaiting the release of this machine will pummel you into the ground over further delay. They want the machine NOW whether or not it has smaller 5, 6, or 7 inch coils. They're interested in access to possible new technology, just as people were with the X-Terras.

In regards to a larger coil for the X-Terra, there are two 10.5inch DD's available, in my book that qualifies as a large coil. Especially since they are DD's with a heel to toe pattern, wide scan if you will. How big would a concentric need to be to provide the same field intensity over that large an area? 15 inches? On an X-Terra that would make it very nose heavy.

In regards to delays, supposedly last year at this time there was talk of a White's M7 to follow on the heels of the M6, but this was scuttlebutt, no official word. This past Fall First Texas/Fisher made OFFICIAL announcements of the release of two new detectors, we're on nigh 5-6 months waiting after an OFFICIAL announcement, and no detectors after the release dates have continually moved back. I haven't noticed any posts by you on the Teknetics or Fisher forums railing against FT/Fisher for false promises etc. Why not? If you're the great champion of the downtrodden detectorists? And those accessory coil manufacturers you seem to hold in such high esteem, have produced how many new coils for the Teknetics T2? Zero, nada, nothing!

HH
BarnacleBill

 

[Jackpine Savage]

Put the stock coil on and turn the sensitivity down to 12. It should make a big difference for hunting there. You are still going to get some falsing from the burnt coal and ground contamination (if its like the same type sites around here the soil is probably black from contamination). With reduced sensitivity (hopefully) most of the falsing will center around one or two numbers which can either be ignored or notched out. Also, if you have not already discovered this make sure you are using good coil control. Using a smooth and steadily controlled sweep speed is critical otherwise you are only contributing to the falsing and erroneous readings. Detectors do not like it when you speed up or slow down the coil during a sweep in those conditions and will let you know it too!

Hope this helps!

Tom

 

[Tinfoil]

n/t

 

[Digger]

I understand that there is a micro-chip in each X-Terra coil. And, that microchip communicates with the microprocessor in the X-Terra control panel every time you turn on your detector. Part of that information consists the coil telling the control box which coil is being used. Size, frequency, design etc. As well, it allows the X-Terra to establish operating parameters designed for that specific coil. Once the operating parameters are identified, the housing and coil continue to communicate through the digital data link. I don't know if temperature is a consideration or not, either. Again, more of that PROPRIETARY information. But if it isn't, I agree that it would be a valuable component. HH Randy

 

[BJ in Okla.]

n/t

 

[cannonball]

Just about got one Tinfoil, but they could not say when the promised additional coils could be expected. As long as you defend their "check is in the mail" R&D bull that is used as reason to "lick your chops"; the longer you will wait for the complete line of their future-proof product. I don't have a reason to bitch? You are right and you are wrong.
Look around at people who own them and are selling them. They are
quietly getting rid of them and do not like my posts as much as you do. Now if I owned one and bought it with the promise time frame of a particular coil from the salesperson, I would inquire and find out just what you know yourself. I just pointed out the fact that they have limited time to deliver, what is nothing more than a sales rumor. If I were you I would demand an official post of a delivery date from ML. Keep defending them for putting off compliments of the short-sheeted Flagship and you will not be disappointed. I should think the communication would include what a consumer should expect of the complete line, because the coil issue is one they dreamed up to deliver you this modern technology. I could care less how proprietary they make their products, just make them.
They have a very challenging technical problem in making the small coil. So there is your excuse when they do not deliver. Would you bitch then? I would like to see this promised addition, and so will others who are willing to wait for Minelab to finish what they started.
As far as my qualifications to raise questions and point out a few ML errors: I am a consumer. In this country, that is all the qualification one needs, until further notice.

 

[cannonball]

Well, I do not wish to discuss other detectors in comparison in this forum, but I can ("I'll be your huckleberry").

sales people have told me some fantastic claims that cannot be substantiated. Did you buy your machine, or are you the east-coast-low-serial-number Huck? Your position is to raise all these points on reasons that folks who own this machine should tolerate delays in delivering what PROMISED. Do you have an allegiance to them in some form? advertised this machine as future-proof with a host of coils/configurations to expect. You keep posting replies to the effect that they are doing expensive R&D, how come does not post that? Why do you post excuses for them, and discredit my posts? Conflict of interests? It is clear that some of the posts in response are in defence of and have no empathy to the consumers, especially potential ones.

Postponed deliveries:
No official communication is an easy out to say it was a forum rumor, (who spreads those?)and they are not responsible for unofficial communications from forum goose-steppers, who suggest that they are still under construction. Why do you bring up other brands? To support this excuse mentality for owners? Sounds like they are weak, as is the competition. I am not posting propaganda, just exposing it. I do not think your masters at would like you to compare them to the other brands: They are the Leaders in their field as they advertise. Instead of engineering excuses for delay spun by brand loyalists, (by a technically qualified person of course) I would like to see something from the company that excels in distancing themselves from their customers. Where are the posts?

I am not a brand loyalist and have no interest in this industry beyond being a consumer. There are far and few professionals in this hobby industry. As others, I will wait for this product to become as it is promoted: "Future Proof". I will not make nor support rationalisations based on speculation of why one should wait, or for how long, to become "Future Proof". You are clearly brand loyal and have made numerous rationalisations for delays and deliveries of compared to other named brands, as if you speak for . Were you that easily had?

Good point on the larger coils made first. It was easy to do, compared to the dimension of the smaller coil that is still a promise. It is a challenge to have that super-duper technology in a small coil and not have it affect normal operation. There are no coils I want for this machine until I own one, and people such as yourself 'beta' test it. Maybe I'll pick one up for cheap this summer!
Saw one, (X70) for I think $399.00.AM&D

So what is the spin on the delivery date and production, or are they still doing expensive R&D with this proprietary lip-smacking, 'it's gotta be good' technology? My watch has more technology in it than one of these coils and beyond the battery thing is future-proof, at least in my lifetime. I can understand brand loyally but not to the point of making excuses for the maker to others. I would rather hammer on than forum members, but this is my response to your xterra post: Come now???

never responded to my posts, so what does that say? Some responses were indirect: second-person post responses that appeared to represent the company, some with unquestionable technical explanations from a perspective following their latitude.

What are the serial numbers? What serial numbers were applied to the blue coils and when did they change the hopper pellets? How come the advertising does not show blue coils? R they that stupid in marketing? What color is #10 at AM&D? Are you a 'beta' tester? A Huck? I do not want to run you off your forum, I just want to run you with the same kind of spin you have produced in a conflict of interests, representing with overt bias and promotion.

So BB,
Cow tow and spin that for the company!


"I'm your Huckleberry" said Val Kilmer as Doc Watson to the OUTLAW