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Most people who never used a Sovereign are not impressed by its Target ID segments.

Ron from Michigan

Moderator
Staff member
I remember a guy interested in buying a Sovereign asked me if this detector can tell the difference from a dime or a quarter.My answer disappointed him after telling him no difference in the target tone or ID reading for a copper penny,dime,quarter or half all are the same.Most will walk away thinking no big deal about the Sovereign. What I have found the Sovereign will separate pennies or nickles better than any detector I have used.Example the Sovereign will ID copper pennies at 180,zinc 177-176,IH 176-173,early 1909 wheat's 173s.Great separation ID segments for nickles.Depending on location for IDs Jefferson's newer vs older,Buffalo,V,and Shield will read different but consistence. My suggestion take a few nickles and test this theory.HH Ron
 
Ron, could not agree more! I won't re-hash what I feel are the many perks of the low to mid conductivity high resolution on the Sovereign, and why I don't think the 180 thing is a drawback but actually an advantage to me, since I just went over that in the "Help with the Notch" or whatever thread. The VDI on the Sovereign was exactly what I've been looking for, for both old coin hunting (think easier to catch a fish with a bigger "coin" net), and also for looking for all those "odd" coins further down the scale. That's when I want to be able to split hairs with high resolution. That an for certain other types of hunting, like ring or button for instance.
 
Critter,I have noticed going from the 180 meter to a 1800 or 180.0 the mid range can split hairs even better.Which could have perks for ring hunting.Thanks Ron
 
VERY WELL SAID RON. I CAN USUALLY TELL A QUARTER OR 50 CENT PIECE, WITH THE DISTORTED BLAST IF IT'S NOT TOO DEEP. AWHILE BACK, I JUST BARELY GOT A WEIRD NOISE, AND COULD ONLY WIGGLE IT UP TO 180 FROM ONE SMALL DIRECTION. I DUG AND ENDED UP WITH A 49 ROOSEVELT DIME STANDING ON END, 7 INCHES DEEP. 4 DETECTORS HAVE BEEN OVER THIS SPOT, PROBABLY AT LEAST 50 TIMES THE GT IS KILLER ON NICKLES LIKE YOU SAID. I GET A FEW PULLTABS IN THOSE NUMBERS, BUT MOST OF THE TIME THAT BONG NOISE IS A NICKLE. MY CAMERA PROGRAM ISN'T WORKING, BUT I JUST HAD TO SELL 104 GRAMS OF SILVER FROM THIS SAME PRIVATE SWIMMING HOLE AND SOME GOLD-ALL JEWELERY.. THE OTHER THREE DETECTORS FOUND VERY LITTLE FROM THIS SPOT AS FAR AS GOLD AND SILVER. .THE GT IS KING-MARK
 
Its silly to base your decision on a detector like the Sovereign simply because of separation ID on a meter. I sold my meter because I found no substantial use for it. The audio tones tell me what I need to know. A smart detectorist digs anything that is at least mid to high on the scale in order not to miss some great targets. Iv tried many brands of detectors and Iv yet to find one whos ID is dead on, maybe if they used the Sovereign and found coins deeper than anything else they have ever used they would not question ID. Just my opinion, I love my GT
 
Treasurechic said:
Its silly to base your decision on a detector like the Sovereign simply because of separation ID on a meter. I sold my meter because I found no substantial use for it. The audio tones tell me what I need to know. A smart detectorist digs anything that is at least mid to high on the scale in order not to miss some great targets. Iv tried many brands of detectors and Iv yet to find one whos ID is dead on, maybe if they used the Sovereign and found coins deeper than anything else they have ever used they would not question ID. Just my opinion, I love my GT
I could not have said it any better Treasurechic as I too sold my :minelab:OEM 180 meter for the GT. I even had Joe Patrick put one of his meters in the faceplate of my GT which is a great mod, but have found I never look at it while hunting on the beach which is 99.9% of all my hunting. I have found that the right headphones help a lot more than any meter did for me .:thumbup:
 
I agree with Ron's target id findings 100%.
For the first 5 years of owning my GT, I never used a meter and I prided myself on being able to separate coinage with a good ear for the Sovereign's audio. Last year I started using one of Ron's meters which I believe enhances the audio superbly to the point in that I feel like a Jedi with it.
I too see the same readings as he described in this post.
Some of my old posts about this are archived.

HH
Jason
 
I've owned some machines that lacked a meter yet were praised for having detailed audio to judge targets by. Drove me nuts digging tons of trash and I'd resort to turning up the discrimination dial to keep from doing that, which in turn cost me depth. Mainly because those machines lacked tone alerts, but even if they did have them there are many instances or certain situations where I feel a meter is a must have to me. I have to have tone alerts because I hunt by ear and use that to catch my attention where I hear a certain tone level I'm looking for (based on what I'm looking for), but when I want to investigate further I feel the meter is a must have for me in most situations. Besides, by how the VDI reacts on a target I can draw further conclusions about it.

For example, at fringe depth if the target is trying to climb with the Sovereign wiggle, then that tips me off that it might be something good. But if that whisper locks into a set VDI #, then I know it's reached it's peak and the depth isn't a factor, but rather it isn't going to climb higher and has settled on what VDI # it probably is.

But year, most people know that audio is the first and last decision on digging or not when old coin hunting. If I hear what I suspect is a sweet high tone from silver at depth or mixed into heavy trash then I don't care what the meter is saying because I'm digging. But one of the perks to the Sovereign is that the VDI is tied rather directly to the audio. What you hear you instantly see...Even much more instantly than the VDI on faster machines I've owned. And usually on the Sovereign if you can hear a high tone at depth the meter is going to show the same thing.

I've found this GT seems to ID almost as deep as it sees, and I couldn't say the same thing for other detectors I've owned in the past. Also, due to it's lack of heavy separation in processing between the audio and VDI, since the VDI is just a simple output voltage level based on target conductivity, it's unlike some other detectors which have heavy processing between the audio and VDI and so the audio can be saying one thing while the VDI lags behind and says another.

Just the same though, audio is king, and is one of the strongest points of the Sovereign due to it's long detailed rich audio with numerous tone alerts.

But, when it comes to certain kinds of hunting I do, such as for buttons, relics, or rings, that's when I feel the super high resolution of the 180 meter in the low to upper mid conductivity range comes into it's own. Now I can make a mental note of and avoid certain pesky tabs or other common trash that roam a site by the thousands, and instead feel I'm making better use of my time by digging any and all targets that have a different VDI #. While nickels are easy enough to hear the lower tone and distinct "boing" sound compared to tabs which read higher, when it comes to stuff say 1 digit off of a pesky tab # or something I can't hear the difference in stuff like that. Even some stuff only say roughly 5 to 7 digits off in the low or mid conductivity range. Maybe some people's ears are good enough to split hairs on targets like that by the tones, but mine isn't.

Yea, I can often hear the "roundness", smoothness, "quality" type of sound to some targets versus some trash in the same VDI range, but the meter helps me to split hairs in certain situations in what I'm hunting for, or more to the point what I'm trying to avoid. If a site has thousands of tabs I'm not going to make it my life's work to dig them all out of there, and if I'm after buttons, gold rings, odd coins that read lower on the scale, or other keepers in the low/mid range, that's when I simply won't do without a meter.

I too have owned machines that could tell coin types above a copper penny to some extent, and have dug plenty of silvers that read like clads or pennies, so for that reason I want less ID "float" and just for the machine to tell me it's a coin. A floaty VDI tries to talk me out of what I suspect might be a coin, so that's where I feel the bigger net catching more fish thing comes into play for me. It's easier to "grab and hold" onto a coin signal when the window for what the machine considers a coin is much wider in perspective (IE: copper penny all the way up to a silver dollar reads 180). Less chance of the target "sloshing over the sides" of the VDI range for that coin when it's got more room to be grabbed onto and held by the meter IMO.

Another perk to the meters on the Sovereign is that they are calibrated to the machine and the coil by adjusting the tuning POT on the meter. For that reason people don't have to worry about a coil change making some targets slightly read a bit "off".

One other thing about the VDI traits that I find handy. Usually screw caps for me will give a good coin hit from one angle, but will make sort of a "warble" from 90 degrees to them. This warble is fairly close to what coins on edge often sound like to me. They are different, but just the same I can get fooled sometimes on that if my memory hasn't been refreshed on them. So what I've found helpful about the VDI in that situation is when I hear that warble I'll note what the meter is saying. Often it'll go "178" or so and either stay there or it will bump back and fourth from there to 180. Where as a coin on edge for me often won't do this, but rather it'll make a slow steady climb to 180, then collapse like a house of cards, and then make that steady climb to 180 again.

This isn't even coins at depth. I've dug some in the 4 or 5" range that did this to me. But also that's one way I'll decide if a deep coin hit is a coin and not and iron false. If it makes the slow steady climb as I wiggle, which I can't tell via the audio with my hearing, then I suspect it's a coin. But if it jumps all over the place in a far more random pattern as it "climbs", then I tend to suspect it's iron. The other ways I tell iron are mainly via the audio, being if it is ghostly or washed out from certain angles, but the VDI can be useful in that respect too sometimes.

So yea, audio always has and always will be king, and the Sovereign has that in spades, and the audio should always be the first and last decision to dig, but I look at the VDI as another form of input as to hints of what I'm after.

And even when we fall into habits of thinking we know what iron should sound or look like, depending on how badly the coin is masked, on edge, deep, or is being washed out by severe minerals, those iron hits could turn out to be an actual coin. That's why when I'm hunting a dead site, instead of wandering for hours looking for deep classic silver hits that no longer exist there, I try to spend my time digging any iffy coin hits, even if experience has me believing they are going to turn out to be iron or other junk. They usually do turn out to be what I suspected- iron, but it happens often enough that I'm surprised with a nice silver or other coin to prove that it's not always the case.

Not even the audio is foolproof in instances like that. It's also the reason why we always seem to hear of a new guy making a great find at a long since "dead" spot, with an entry level machine. He simply hasn't fallen into any bad habits yet and took a chance on digging what everybody was sure was iron or some other junk, just because he doesn't think he knows any better yet about what type of coin signal is worthy to dig.
 
Treasurechic,I like to have as much information about targets before my recovery.My Sovereign is always set with the discrimination and notch at the lowest setting.Old trash parks here will take too much time to sort the screw caps from good targets without a meter the tones are very close.At most parks and residents a hunter has to limit targets dug, (Carpet bomb effect) damaged lawns will close areas to search.The Sovereign wiggle can lock on and retrieve many good finds(silver,gold,nickles etc.) from worked out parks at extreme depths.HH silly Ron
 
Main reason I use a meter is my hearing is shot in the mid-tones. I can still tell a dime from a penny most of the time, and non-clad silver virtually screams at me. Still, sometimes I have to use the meter if my hearing is worse on a particular day. Just my reasons for using one. I'm still looking for a small stereo equalizer that I can plug into the GT and then plug my headphones into the equalizer. If I can find one, I might not need a meter. Sometimes I don't use the meter much, other times I do.
 
I tend to agree with Treasurechic as I don't use my meter, but I can certainly see both sides of the issue. I've come to believe that aluminum and gold have the same ID and it only depends on size mainly where either will ID on a meter. Couldn't that bottle cap be a fat gold ring or gold coin? But I can also see that if you have a nuisance target in an area then the use of a meter would help but then you could also use notch. At any rate, I still have a lot to learn and enjoy all the advice and opinions from all.
 
I too need that meter for hunting parks, yards and ball Fields as I don't want to dig unless I have too and there is so many iffy signals I need the meter to see what i can't hear as I have found many of good targets that I know I would have missed if I didn't have a good 180 meter. If I was more relic hunter or beach hunter I don't think I would need a meter as much as I would for coin hunting where it is trashy.
The 2 best accessories for the Sovereign is a 180 meter and the Sun Ray S-1 probe and know with these 2 items my finds are increased quite a bit, the meter for IDing and not digging so much trash ands the S-1 to find the target faster and those on edge.


Rick
 
Rick,there are some Sovereign users that search without a meter and I wish them success.With the meter and using old numbers I recovered enough gold to pay for my equipment.One thing I still enjoy is locking a 180 on an old silver coin(cherry picking) that is down 12 inches in a worked out park. Thanks Ron
 
James,there are signals or ID reading totally different for aluminum,silver and gold.I use the Sovereign like my Explorer which the meter is not constantly used and the tone is my main aid to ID and later a glance at the meter to confirm my target.I never notch because another target could be removed that has potential of a good target.The meter helps to separate blended targets which in some cases as many as three targets properly IDed with pinpoint accuracy.Most important purpose of the Sovereign with a 180 meter is to help stake my claim on an old park,clean the easy gold and sliver out in the most likely areas first hunted.This will give me time for a more through search later in the season.Thanks Ron
 
Ron, I have the old bar graph meter and it's the only one I've used. Perhaps I should try a meter like yours. I've been reading Critter's review of your meter and others and yes I have to admit that the higher resolution and more info on a target would have to be helpful in determining the probability of a good target. Then I see the face of the Patriot meter where the gold ring graph includes foil and everthing all the way over into the coin range. I want to believe you are right about separating gold from aluminum at least in most cases but still thinking that the best you can do is increase the probabilities. I hope I can learn the Sov as well as you and some others here.
 
James,there's no 100 percent on the correct ID of targets, but higher probability.The 180 meter and tone variation does make the Sovereign in most parks very effective.I have dug every target a couple seasons back just to see if a 1000 to 1 ratio would net a nice gold ring.I was surprised to find more like a 500 to 1 ratio to find gold,less work than I originally thought.Back to the original topic,the Sovereign has one of the best abilities to ID gold or other targets in the mid range conductivity area.Thanks Ron
 
the only draw back (that I can see) is when I am hunting clad and would like to cherry pick quarters at my local school yard. Obviously that can't happen. However, the flip side to this is that I would dig only real copper pennies (and not the junky stinkin' zinc lincolns) plus dimes, quarters, etc. I feel the 180 meter complements the tones of the machine. I learned that many pulltabs come in around 167 for me with that certain mid-tone. Then one day I was hunting along and the meter read 167 but the tone told me it was something different. The object ended up being a 1920's brooch. So for me the meter actually helped me learn that it was something different other then a pulltab. This was due to the tone being different even though the meter reading landed on 167. The other reason why I like and need the meter is I have unfortunate "top end" hearing loss and tinnitus. Hearing the complete high tone ( such as a silver coin ) is impossible for me. So the 180 reading really helps out. Thank you RickND, Ron from Michigan, Critterhunter and many others who have helped me learn about the Sovereign and have great success with a "sleeper" machine. - HH and I wish everyone silver & gold in 2013! - Jim

Ron from Michigan said:
.The 180 meter and tone variation does make the Sovereign in most parks very effective.
 
This is also what I have been saying too is that with the meter reading and the tones the Sovereign gets and you get a tone that is different then what you normally get at a certain number on the meter means to check it out. This is where some interesting finds will be found. This we get from actual experience with the Sovereign where you learn something new each time out with it and can not be learned from air test and test gardens.
The nice gold ring I found a few years back I may have walked right over it if I hadn't sent many days out with it and felt I knew it well, this was a area loaded with pull tabs as it was where some old bleacher were, so there was a lot of pull tab readings. I was looking for the high tone of a good coin and heard a pull tab reading, but it was different as it sounded like a nickle (144-145) and read like a beaver tail (140-141) as it sounded smooth like a nickle and seem deeper then most pull tabs are, so it was a definite one to dig as it was different then normal pull tabs, it would up being a very old signet ring with no markings and took it to a jewelry store and was told it was probably 18K as it was a soft and bends easy and it was very old and didn't want to do a acid test to find out for sure.
There is many different tips a person learns by Experience with the Sovereign to make it one of the best ID of any detector, you just have to pay attention and do some digging when not sure.
Another tip I use a lot if hunting where there is a lot of old alum can buried as they sound like a coin, but if you raise the coil up you will see a alum can seem to sound the same when lifting the coil up 3 or 4 inches or more, but a coin will sound weaker. Most people with other detectors stay away from these area and find the Sovereigns work great in these areas. One of my nicer finds in a area with so many old alum Hamms beer cans was this Cole Standardized car hood emblem I found by lifting the coil and checking each one, but this one was weaker when lifting the coil, so it was one I had to dig. I had to check it out and seen it was made up-till 1927 I believe, and read the Cole car was the first Presidential automobile used by Howard Taft, so I have another piece of good history others walked over because of the alum cans.

Rick
 
Rick,
That emblem is a beauty! Nice save for sure. When I first recieved my GT, I dug everything at every number (except the negatives) and learned where each object was numerically falling into and their respective tone. I had quite the extensive pulltab collection going lol. However from all that testing (from actual targets in the ground) I learned items may give the same number BUT the smoothness, roughness, or clippiness along with these numbers are one super built-in feature! The tone is one thing but when it gives extra info like what I mentioned above, the machine is giving us lots of good information about the target below. <------This is what I absolutely love about the machine. I remember taking a 14kt gold ring and placing it on the ground outside (to get away from the emi) and ran the coil over it, that ring made the sweetest, softest, smoothest low tone / registering 132 on my meter that is still embedded in my pea brain. I was floored by the difference in tone for that ring compared to all the nickels and pulltabs I had been finding. Last Winter it was warm enough for me to get out and run for about an hour at my local park. One part of this park use to have an 1800's home on it and was knocked down by the town in the 1930's. I mention this because to hunt it with a metal detector is a nightmare. The town just plowed everything under and well, you get the point. Anyhow, even with my 8" tornado it is very difficult to hunt and sometimes just becomes unbearable to hunt. On this Winter day I was scanning along the very edge of the lot where the town plowed and dumped everything. Crawling ever so slowly due to the massive nulling, this sweet, smooth mid-tone "burped through" making ever so micro sweeps back and forth I was able to lock on and isolate the signal. Even though the coin was in bad shape I managed to pull an 188? V-nickel from the junk. I tell you this story and everyone else because I feel that had I not been using a meter, I know I would of kept on walking. The meter for me is a super visual aid. As a "standard"... when the machine "contradicts" what the meter is showing such as the case of what I described up in my first message, that right there gives me the message to dig, dig, dig. Basically learning all the junk tone signals and where their ID falls actually helps me learn more of what not to dig and helps me in extreme trashy areas to differentiate between targets. Hope this all makes sense because it does to me.
 
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