Modulation experiment

[earthmansurfer]

Now I know it technically doesn't make sense but running modulation at 2 REALLY REALLY helped quell the iron falses today. I got the idea from Cybersage, which was forwarded to him from an Engineer at White's. Now, my understanding of modulation is that everything at depth should come in softer. BUT THAT IS NOT WHAT I EXPERIENCED.

First, I started my hunt and forgot I even put modulation on (back at home the night before). Every so often I heard these soft to VERY soft tones but they would never repeat. About 15 minutes later I remembered the setting change and started to turn it off to see what the "falses" sounded like. The detector falsed LOUD when it falsed. I played with filters between 5 and 7.5 without much of a difference, was using the 6X10 coil, 42-50 recovery delay, Rx 8, Disc 90-95, ground had next to no mineralization but a high iron content, no EMI.

I dug two coins at 5"-6" and they both hit as hard as with no modulation. I need to dig deeper coins and test this with modulation on but having it at 2 I don't think there will be a big drop off. Cybersage says he gets soft hits on coins that are deep (setting of 4) so I believe I'll experience some of that. So, all I can say is that the volume of the iron falses often (not always) dropped to a WHISPER. It was really interesting to experience coins at 6" hitting at regular volume but the iron falsing going softer (deeper iron). I only dug a couple of pieces of iron and pinpointed the rest to make sure it was iron (pinpointed off center.)

I'm curious to see how this works out for some of you.

EMS

 

[Rob (IL)]

Cybersage has a V3 not a V3i. The setting of 4 on the V3 is the same as 2 on the V3i.

I would have to say the it should not work that way. Modulation should make all targets quieter as they get deeper. What the theory why iron would be quieter.

 

[earthmansurfer]

I agree Rob this should not work and on the other board when this was brought up in the past there was violent disagreement
But, it doesn't take a genius to observe this in the field AND this was told to Cybersage by a White's engineer so maybe there is something to it.
Thanks for mention a setting of 4 on the V3 is the same as 2 on the V3i.

I think what we are seeing is that though you will get a drop off in signal strength with modulation, it is not linear regarding size of targets.
Perhaps White's wrote something into the code that affects deeper iron more? They easily could have done this and remember it was an engineer who told Cybersage. Hmmm 1 + 1 ...
There were A LOT of really soft signals that were NOT repeatable. I couldn't find one repeatable soft signal that I remember. To say this aided me in hunting would be an understatement.

Also, I verified that small foil (VDI 5+-) barely or not at all hits on the 2.5Hz Specragraph line. [If you turn on Consistency (not intensity) e.g. 8, and Fade Rate e.g. 3, you can easily find small foil.] (It hits where hammereds do sometimes so it's a nice trick for me and those hunting jewelery. Saved me a lot of time yesterday as well.

I'm past why the modulation works as it does (though still curious), the question now is, does it only work for me and Cybersage? Of course not. Try this out guys.

 

[Larry (IL)]

Thanks for the tip, I will give it a try today. Like you said, we don't have to know why as long as it works.

 

[earthmansurfer]

Also, I should add that in my little test garden I observed no modulation on a 9" buried Nickel with modulation at 2. Also observed no modulation on a 4" buried hammered coin that out of the ground VDI's at 15 (much much higher in the ground). I really listened to these targets and couldn't hear a drop in signal. I observed this when I first did air tests with coins at a distance and was wondering if my modulation was working. On my other detector modulation is quite apparent with even mid level buried coins but NOT much on buried iron - it's a much more linear modulation.

 

[johno]

remember the difference in the v3 and v3i. seems like i remember reading quite awhile back that the modulation settings were backward in the V3 manual, with 5 actually being the lowest setting and 0 being the highst

 

[johno]

thanks for the info .. goodhunting

 

[CyberSage]

Well, This was a touchy subject for me over at the Whites forum for sure. Bob Canaday gave me this tip early on. After using this setting my hunts immediately became much more pleasing to the ear, so to speak. Rob, you are correct. I am using the 1.1 software version. The range setting was reversed in the later upgrade. I can tell you after much experimenting in the field that this is definitely effective in quieting the high pitched blast from hot rocks, nail tips, and misc. iron. I don't know why it works, but it does. Think about how you tell the difference between a rusty nail tip halo, and a good deep high conductive target. When you pinpoint the 2.5khz remains dominant, but the VCO response from the bad target is usually much lighter in response compared to a coin. After awhile we all know that you get a sense of what a deep coin should pin point like. That size factor is possibly what lets the coins break through at full response given that the range setting is aligned with the mineralization strength of the soil. I recently dug my deepest coin. It was a Wheat Penney at 11 inches. It sounded out just great. I would like to know why this works so well myself. I have had very limited time to hunt this year, but I have been very successful, and most importantly, I am enjoying it.

Jack

 

[Rob (IL)]

I just got back from an all day hunt with Larry. I know I said what it should do. But what is important is if it works use it. I know what Jack is talking about and he won't get flack from me. Bob has been a great help to me. Jack you might ask Bob what's the theory if you get the chance. If you do let us know. ROB

 

[Larry (IL)]

I did try Modulation at two and it didn't seem to make any difference in the ground I was working in. As said before though, if it works for you, use it........... we all know, results will vary.

 

[earthmansurfer]

Here is a short video I made showing the effects of modulation on a 9" buried Nickel.
Rx@10, disc@90, Filters varied, Recovery Delay 80, Ground is probably non mineralized but with high iron mineralization content. (last time I was able to check it). I didn't ground balance in the video as there is no place to ground balance in my yard. The only explanation I have of the VDI is that iron flakes are upping the VDI. I really doubt I accidentally buried a dime and not Nickel, but anything is possible.

Now, I know Jacks ground is moderate in mineralization and mine is next to zero, so it seems like the modulation experiment works in these two soil types.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lxPmeN1Py0[/video]

 

[Rob (IL)]

100% correct.

 

[Rob (IL)]

If you where checking the modulation sound, you would need to have a shallow, 2", nickel and the 9" nickel both buried. Then without changing settings check the two with and without modulation. A deep target will only be softer than a shallow target with the same volume. I can make a deep target sound soft without modulation by turning down the volume and a deep target with modulation sound loud by turning up the volume. ROB

 

[earthmansurfer]

Good point Rob. If I get a chance tomorrow I'll put a Nickel nearby at 2" to compare the sound but there will be iron in it.
Anyway, what was interesting is that with modulation off or on (from 2 - 6) basically didn't affect the volume of a Nickel at 9". Now, according to what Modulation does, it should have. But it's becoming more apparent the V3i's modulation is a bit teaked from a standard detectors. I didn't touch the volume.

I tested the modulation in my garden on the iron and it didn't seem to make a difference. But in the field it did, so I suppose the iron in the field is deeper than in my garden.

These were my first videos ever today. Only one take on all of them except the first. So bear with me as I didn't prepare much. I was just stoked to get the camera mount working. What is nice is that I think I (we) can learn from videos so much more than posts as you have a video record of a target and you can really look into it. You know, like a picture is worth a thousand words and a video so much more. For some reason I get this in my head: "Steve Austin, astronaut, a man barely alive. Gentlemen, we can rebuild him, we have the technology. We have the capability to make the worlds first Bionic man. Steve Austin will be that man. Better than he was before. Better. Stronger. Faster."

I appreciate the feedback.

 

[earthmansurfer]

Ok, I got back out today and did more testing as Rob suggested but I used the Wireless headphones and not the speaker. I buried a Nickel at 2" to compare the signal.
Here are my findings:

No modulation - 9" Nickel and 2" Nickel have exactly the same volume
Modulation 1&2 - 9" Nickel and 2" Nickel have exactly the same volume
Modulation 3 - 9" Nickel drops 30% or so at times - inconsistent, 2" Nickel still hitting regular
Modulation 4 - 9" Nickel hits harder here than at 3 and it's noticeable. I have no clue why. I tested this again and again. 2" Nickel hitting loud as usual.
Modulation 5 - Much more of a drop off on. Perhaps 60% softer. 2" Nickel Hitting loud as usual.
Modulation 6 - A bit more of a drop off than 5. 2" Nickel hitting loud as usual.

I have to test this with my Nautilus headphones as I wonder if he WHP are partly responsible. I'll test this when I get a chance. I'd like to eventually do a video for this so you all can hear as well. Also, it's worth emphasizing that Modulation 3 seemed inconsistent as I noted. Very weird regarding the 3 and 4 settings seemingly giving opposite volume results.

Thanks for the suggestion Rob as it was more clear when I had that 2" Nickel there to compare to.

I hope this was of some help,
EMS