Me and UPS are back on not-speaking terms...

[ronmsr]

I joined the GPAA in Oct. and my membership package went to one of
my rural neighbors. Luckely the neighbor delivered the package to me.
After that I got half a post card from Honda delivered by USPS.
It had my mailing address on it and was in a plastic bag with an appollogy on it.
I've never had this kind of trouble in all my life. (56)
Ron

 

[Bill W.]

Ralph,

Believe what you want. I am not a 'company man' as you put it. Ask Guvner, I've have tried to help him, give him explantions for his past/present problems, and give him links to get help... I fully admit he has a problem. ANY package can LOOK mishandled when it NOT properly packed. Period. Taking two weeks to get there has nothing to do with the damage. 'Pass the buck' back to the customer happens when they don't package the contents right. It's THEIR responsibility not UPS. This is not my job talking on this forum about my work. But, I do get offended when people misrepresent the facts. Getting a package insured does NOT automatically entitle you to your money back if the package is damaged. If the package was properly packaged THEN the claim is paid. Think about in all the years I've used UPS for personal uses I've NEVER had a package damaged. That's because I know how to PROPERLY pack my boxes. Go use FexEx Ground and stop your whining.

-Bill

 

[Bill W.]

Sorry to hear about that instance. But, there are 'bad employees' in every business. I watched a USPS mail women about 5 years ago pull down my neighbors driveway and throw a box of dishes out her window. She never even got out of her vehicle. Did you know that USPS are now supposed to deliver package to your house that won't fit in the mailbox. I still see packages setting on top of mailboxes iin the rain and snow. I also had a customer that was telling me that she received a package from FedEx Ground that was crushed and shoved up under the 'roof' over her mailbox. It's the nature of employee people and not machines. I'm definitely not defending what that UPS person did to that package only pointing out that other delivery companies have the same type of employees.

-Bill

 

[Bill W.]

I'm glad to hear that you have a good driver. Sometimes the negatives are the only things are posted. I am lucky enough to do the same route all the time and know most of my customers by their first name. They know to tell me when their going on vacation and what to do with any packages they get. They also complain when I'm not on my route because of vacations, etc. because other drivers will leave it at the wrong door... (ie. at the front door instead of the garage, etc.) ... They also treat me very well at Christmas with alot of gifts... There's alot of nice people out there that I miss seeing when I'm not working... you just got to know how to treat them.

-Bill

 

[cachenut]

Sorry. I was pulling your leg. I thought you would go ballistic on that one. I didn't see someone stomp a package but I wondered in the past if it was done.

I thought you would be foaming at the mouth, ready to string me up, when you saw that story. Well done. I shouldn't tease.

Most packages from UPS arrive on time in good shape.

 

[Ralph Bryant]

Fact is Bill, you don't have a clue what that package went through (nor do I), and all you are offering is speculation. But I can assure you it didn't jump off the truck and throw itself under the tires in a deserate attempt to commit suicide. I take the same kind of offense when I hear nonsense excuses about why damaged packages at UPS are always the fault of someone else. I've also known former employees of both FedEx and UPS who openly admit to night-shift "football games" using customer packages to "kick field goals". Time for a reality check.

Ralph

 

[Ralph Bryant]

.....that we get excuses or appologies for the fabricated concerns, but belittling and blame-games for those cases based in reality.

In all fairness, as Bill says, there is good and bad in any company. Unfortunately, I've experienced more of the bad with UPS than with other shippers.

No whine before it's time.......

Ralph

 

[Ralph Bryant]

Bill, I have no doubt from your comments that you are one of the "good guys", as is our local delivery driver. At least you have the concern to respond to some of the issues that others simply don't seem to care about. Career apathy is where these kinds of problems start in the first place.

Thanks.

 

[Bill W.]

Ralph,

True, both are speculation. In all honesty, I've never seen any football games. If it is happening it is because of poor supervision in those buildings. Those kind of people (and supervisors) should be displined for such acts. There is alot of hearsay there. You think of it as an excuse. I look at as the real world of shipping because I experience it everyday. With 20 years in at UPS I am far from being a newbie. I can spot a poorly packed package a mile away. As I said and continue to stress your package is loaded with packages of different weights and sizes. A poorly packaged package or one without the proper burst strength will blown out on the end such as your package did. The ripped parts of the box probably came after that from a conveyer belt used at all UPS buildings. Proper packing is the responsibility of the person shipping the package not UPS. You need a reality check because it is MY JOB and know it very well. Think about it.

-Bill

 

[Bill W.]

I'm glad I passed the *test*. I really try not to take much serious... only offer suggestions on how to avoid future problems and fix the on-going issues. Any company has a problem with someone.

-Bill

 

[Bill W.]

'but belittling and blame-games for those cases based in reality'

I know my job and you apparently have no idea of what a poorly packaged parcel looks like. I've seen such 'reality' for 20 years. From looking at your package image I can tell it definitely didn't have the proper burst strength and was poorly packed from the blown out end. End of story. What packing was around the detector? What was the burst strength of the box??? How much space was there between the detector and box? Huh, Mr. Expert? Your opinion is your opinion. Mine is based on 20 years of shipping that you see as biased but is based on knowledge of shipping not opinion. I am honestly sorry to see your package was damaged. But, the blame is the shipper not UPS. Poorly packed package are the shipper's fault. They have the control to properly pack a package not UPS.

-Bill

 

[Ralph Bryant]

Here is something else for you to look at and reconsider "Mr. Expert".

Take a good look again at the photo.

[attachment 15785 UPSucks.jpg]

Notice that the creases in the package on the left side are vertical, while the long end-cap crease is horizontal. Notice also that there is ripping and tearing of the box material at the end closest to the camera, as well as a ripping gouge down the center of the left side. Notice also that the diagonal crease on the top of the box extending from the deep crease in the left side makes it pretty obvious that the box was CRUSHED from the right corner area closest to the camera. Notice too that the upper left top flap is bent, pushed, and folded UP AND UNDER toward the inside of the package. How do you explain all of this as a "blow-out" ? Also notice how the packaging tape is separated from the cardboard and "rolled". Whether you want to admit it or not, there is alot more involved here than "packaging failure". The real question is how much abuse had to take place to create such a "failure". I've been involved closely with the physical attributes of different aspects of forensic science and accident reconstruction for well over 26 years in my line of work Bill, and your explanation just doesn't cut the mustard.

Ralph

 

[Bill W.]

'forensic science and accident reconstruction'

Stick to your line of work and not mine. You don't know anything about it.

-Bill

 

[Ralph Bryant]

Fact is.....your "blow-out" contention would be picked apart so fast in a courtroom that your head would be spinning, and you and I both know it. You deliver boxes Bill, it ain't rocket science.

 

[Bill W.]

Ralph,

Fact IS, LOOK at the agreement the shipper consents to when they ship a package. UPS's agreement states:

----

Packaging
It is the responsibility of the shipper to ensure that proper packaging is used and that contents of packages are adequately and securely packed, wrapped, and cushioned for transportation. The use of UPS-provided packaging is not a guarantee that an item is sufficiently packaged for transportation. UPS does not provide special handling for packages with "Fragile," package orientation (e.g., "UP" arrows or "This End Up" markings), or any other similar such markings.

----

It would stand in court when UPS's shipping agreement and guidelines are presented. FACT IS, I doubt you could win a case in court with that package image. Did you ever see FIRSTHAND what a conveyor belt can do to a packages that is not properly packed? Or when a poorly packed package is loaded in a trailer with other heavier packages? Ignorance in court is not an excuse. Being "closely with the physical attributes of different aspects of forensic science and accident reconstruction" I would think you would have researched UPS and know how exactly their equipment can damage a package EXACTLY like your package was. Apparently you didn't or you would have known the answers to your questions. I never claimed delivering packages was 'rocket science'. But, as I stated your opinion is just that your opinion. I am definitely more qualified on this subject. I have witnessed such packages being damage firsthand. I have also seen properly packed packages go through the same area without a scratch. You may be closely related to accident reconstruction profession but that doesn't qualify you until you've seen 'cause and effect' on unfamiliar circumstances.

BTW, I've sent my $3500 telescope through UPS three different times back to Irvine, CA for upgrades, etc.. If you know anything about Schimdt-Cassegrain telescopes you'll know they're notrious for going out of collimation (alignment) from being bumped around. We're talking less than a millimeter. It's never come back from CA out of collimation.

Frankly, you can think what ever you want. But, I can guarantee a package such as your package would get denied in a claim. I have done every job in our building which includes claims. DEPENDING on what the burst strength is and what was surrounding the detector it would stand a good chance of being denied. You never did answer those questions that I asked. But you can sure point the finger and blame. Take UPS to court and test your theory. You might be suprised because I've seen that firsthand too! It might not be 'rocket science' but I am definitely versed in proper packing and UPS's shipping agreements.

-Bill

 

[Ralph Bryant]

UPS did in fact pay the claim on the package in question, so I guess they found themselves at some level of fault or blame. And I have no doubt that it was more than likely conveyor-belt caused damage, but no way was it "blow-out" due to something heavy being stacked on top of it as you first claimed. This package had extra cardboard reinforcement inside the box, along with ample paper packing material to further pad the contents. Like I said before, if it had been a lesser machine than a Nautilus, there would likely have been nothing left but plastic bits and twisted aluminum. My mention of the "courtroom" really had nothing to do with any intentions of "suing" over a damaged package, as you and I both know they will pay a claim before paying an attorney his or her court time......much more economical and much less of a PR headache.

>>>"UPS does not provide special handling for packages with "Fragile," package orientation (e.g., "UP" arrows or "This End Up" markings), or any other similar such markings."<<<

Perhaps they should consider starting. Unfortunately, nowhere in these United States can you contract against negligence. It would be interesting to know just how much UPS loses in damage claims on an annual basis.

Thanks for the debate. Time to move on.

Ralph

 

[Bill W.]

Ralph,

That's why asked those questions about the packaging because they do have a bearing on the claim. Don't be too sure about UPS not going to court to save money. I only say that because I was part of a case one time that involved CODs and fraud on the receiver's part and the amount was less than $1000. UPS took them to court. I know I was there... Ugh.

>>UPS does not provide special handling

For UPS I doubt providing 'special handling' would not be cost effective. That is what drives any business and I am sure some bean counter has already figured it out. I am not aware of the actually number of damages per year but I do know going to percentages of damages per volume UPS is the lowest in the business. I know that surprises you...

>>Thanks for the debate. Time to move on.

Agreed. I have been reading your opinions on the T2... just so you know I do value opinions...

-Bill