MDing without permit - ??

[Mirco]

Dear all!
Men and women!

From your experience or in your opinion how will you evaluate/forecast the following situation? -

I drive rather extensively in large metropolitan NY tri-state area. And I always have my metal detector in the car in case if I have half an hour of free time and I am close to some interesting place to hunt - mostly beaches. Of course it is not practically possible to obtain permits or some other papers or else for ALL possible and sometimes small and tiny places and local beaches (just in case!!), especially without any preliminary plans to ever visit them.

So, what do you think what will happen if I am doing a quick 20-minute- long search on a beach and police approaches me and says that a permit or permission is needed to MD there or some hours (or days, or months) are off-limit or else?
Or MDing in that place is not allowed at all.

I know about Federal lands and about historic sites! What I am talking about is just regular looking local/city/town/village beaches or parks.

Do they issue a ticket and confiscate my machine right away and do something to me personally? Or will give me a warning as a first-time violator (offender?)

I am not very much familiar with customs and human inter-relations in this country yet so your kind advice and insight is hotly needed and will be loved!

Thank you, people!

 

[TreasurdiggrNY]

The penalties are as varied as the local laws. If issuing a ticket is the norm you will get it right there. Why not ask about specific areas you know you will be around to find out the local law. Keep in mind a lot of permits are free and can be attained by mail. Good Luck.
Glenn

 

[Mirco]

The penalties are as varied as the local laws. If issuing a ticket is the norm you will get it right there. Why not ask about specific areas you know you will be around to find out the local law. Keep in mind a lot of permits are free and can be attained by mail. Good Luck.
Glenn

Thank you for answering, Glenn! I see you are also from NY.

The problem is that often I drive by doing other business and see a nice place or a small beach that I did not know about before coming there so it was not possible to do inquiries in advance.

Another problem is - often it is not easy to find out WHERE and to WHOM ask about a specific place. In the huge bureaucratic machinery it is very difficult to find an exact body or person who is in charge. But police is known to be quick to punish without hearing explanations or getting into details.

For instance sometimes I am near the Playland Beach in Rye but I do not know if MDing is allowed at all, or before Labor Day, or with Permit only. And where to get Permit in this case? There are several offices to get permit in Westchester County, but none of them is referred as serving Lower (South ) Westchester!!

So far after alot of research I was not able to find a single written word prohibiting MDing in Playland Beach. I checked all Westchester and Playland Park rules, restrictions and regulations. Metal detectors are not even mentionned. Does
it mean that I won`t be punished for using my MD? If not prohibited - means ALLOWED? In other countries - yes. But I do not know about this country. That is why I asked my question and requested help and information from
the MDing community!

Also I am dreaming about a car trip from NY to Florida with quick stops for food and light MDing along the way. How can we know
in advance where we will decide to stop in the distance over 1000 miles!? How is it possible to get in advance permits and permissions for ALL possible hunting places?! This kind of preparation for a three day trip may take up to three months full time work and still the trip may be ruined if a permission for a particular site was issued by not the correct agency or officer.

Below is the
list of bodies to apply for permits in Westchester Co. None of them cover Lower Westchester (Playland, Rye)!! Trust me I`ve already spent hours and hours online and on the phone trying to obtain ANY permit or law information regarding this particular area. Without any success! And it is only ONE of possible dozens if not hundreds small places/sites like this!

http://www.greattreasure.com/id4.html

And here is "The Rules on using Playland". It is even in two languages:

Beach & Pool Safety

LIFEGUARDS ENFORCE THE

RULES AND SAVE LIVES.

PARENTS AND GUARDIANS

SUPERVISE THEIR CHILDREN.

Beach and Pool

Children under 12 should be accompanied by

an adult, and be actively supervised at all

times and in all areas of the facility.

Absolutely NO smoking and NO alcoholic

beverages.

Glass bottles are prohibited.

Ball playing and group games are not

permitted.

NO whistles, fins or scuba masks.

Swimming is allowed in designated areas only.

Swimming is strictly prohibited without a lifeguard

on duty.

Only US Coast Guard approved floatation devices

are allowed as swim aids. No other floatation

devices of any kind are allowed.

Please Note: Street clothing is not allowed in the

Pool, only bathing suits are allowed.

Pets are not allowed.

Please observe additional rules

posted at the beach and pool facilities.

SWIMMING IN PLAYLAND LAKE OR ANY

BODY OFWATER OTHER THAN PLAYLAND

BEACH AND POOL IS PROHIBITED.

Ride Safety

Please follow these simple ride safety tips at all times when riding.

Additional precautions should be taken by parents and guardians who

supervise smaller or younger children.

Know your/your child's capabilities in

determining whether or not a particular

ride is appropriate.

Watch the ride in operation before

riding - make sure you/your child are

comfortable with it and can ride it

safely.

Observe the height lines and read

and follow all ride safety signs.

These are posted at each ride and

throughout the park to ensure

your/your child's safety.

Smoking, food, gum and drinks are NOT allowed on rides or ride

lines as they pose safety and choking hazards to you/your child and

others.

Secure all clothing, loose articles and personal possessions - items

should be left with a non-rider, in a locker or in bins where provided.

Hats must be secured, and jackets/sweaters must be worn properly and

not around the waist while on a ride.

Fasten safety equipment and demonstrate appropriate behavior

while on the ride and ride lines. Line jumping may result in ejection

from the Park with no refund. Be sure you/your child use seatbelts and

all safety equipment such as shoulder harness, lap bar or chain. Keep

hands, arms, legs and feet inside the ride. Follow the instructions from

the ride operator and stay seated at all times. The Ride Operator will

instruct you on how, when and where to exit a ride.

Designate an easily recognizable place to meet your child/party, once

the ride is over.

Never enter any ride that you are uncomfortable with

 

[TreasurdiggrNY]

You still need to know the laws and have the permit if needed wherever you go or you can get in trouble whatever the penalty is. It's your responsibility even for a 20 min "quick hunt" from NY to Florida and beyond. Do you think a policeman, Park Ranger or Judge is going to care that you didn't see anything about a rule or that you spent a lot of time trying to find out what the law was but you couldn't find anything about it?
Good Luck.
Glenn

 

[gobble-gobble]

The state park beaches on LI , you need a permit if you do not have a permit the park police will ask you to leave. If they want , they can & have confiscated MD. Local town beaches you will need a town permit to enter , thats if you live in that township.NYC permits are free , I have seen people asked to leave because of no permit, In the past 2 yrs. the same people have been told to leave. You would think that they would have learned, & to boot all , ITS "FREE" .

 

[gobble-gobble]

n/t

 

[Mirco]

You still need to know the laws and have the permit if needed wherever you go or you can get in trouble whatever the penalty is. It's your responsibility even for a 20 min "quick hunt" from NY to Florida and beyond. Do you think a policeman, Park Ranger or Judge is going to care that you didn't see anything about a rule or that you spent a lot of time trying to find out what the law was but you couldn't find anything about it?
Good Luck.
Glenn

I know that I need to know the laws, of course I know. And for this reason I am doing all my best efforts to find and to learn and to know these laws. And I cannot! Sometimes I got an impression that it is done on purpose - to make it very difficult for people to know laws, so that they
break them unintentionally and become subject to fines, tickets, punishment and prosecution. I hope my impression is not correct. But in my particular case I am trying as much as possible to be good and to know and follow ALL the laws and rules, but seems nobody and no agency
is interested or care to help in any way. I assume that authorities and LE are suppose to help people to learn laws, to know them. Not to kinda hide them and then to punish for violation. I am not correct?

 

[TreasurdiggrNY]

Well in your original post you asked about what would happen if you did a quick hunt and were breaking the law and you were very vague on your areas of interest so I gave you some advice. You responded with 1 spot your very interested in along with the ridiculously long list of Rye Playland rules. Then you mention your driving NY to Florida and complain about not knowing exactly where you'll stop along the way so how could you possibly be able to know all the rules. It just seems like you want to just detect wherever and have someone say it's OK.
I know there are not set fixed laws and every town, county, village and state has their own, you just have to be sure you know the laws. I would say pick 1 spot at a time that your interested in and ask specifically about it on the forums you visit. Ask if you need a permit, where do you get the permit, if it's no permit needed how can you verify that etc. etc. Take all the info you get including names and numbers and verify it and hold the info in a file so you can check on it as the rules change year to year.
Good Luck,
Glenn

 

[Mirco]

Well in your original post you asked about what would happen if you did a quick hunt and were breaking the law and you were very vague on your areas of interest so I gave you some advice. You responded with 1 spot your very interested in along with the ridiculously long list of Rye Playland rules. Then you mention your driving NY to Florida and complain about not knowing exactly where you'll stop along the way so how could you possibly be able to know all the rules. It just seems like you want to just detect wherever and have someone say it's OK.
I know there are not set fixed laws and every town, county, village and state has their own, you just have to be sure you know the laws. I would say pick 1 spot at a time that your interested in and ask specifically about it on the forums you visit. Ask if you need a permit, where do you get the permit, if it's no permit needed how can you verify that etc. etc. Take all the info you get including names and numbers and verify it and hold the info in a file so you can check on it as the rules change year to year.
Good Luck,
Glenn

Good very clear advice. Thank you for the valuable information, Glenn.
I mentionned just one spot as an example how unexplainably difficult it is to obtain any rules or information on using MD without paying each time $400 to a lawyer.. So, nobody in this Forum carries his/her MD in the car while driving? And search only in one specific authorized approved and allowed spot all life long? How beautiful, democratic and exciting!
Good luck.
Mirco

 

[gobble-gobble]

I do carry a MD with me every where I go . But I DO have permits for the places I hunt, I will knock on someones door & ask permission if I could hunt there yard or farm. I donot trespass, Always writen permission. This hobby is to important to me & others .
Good luck,

 

[Mirco]

I do carry a MD with me every where I go . But I DO have permits for the places I hunt, I will knock on someones door & ask permission if I could hunt there yard or farm. I donot trespass, Always writen permission. This hobby is to important to me & others .
Good luck,

Excuse my stupidity, but if it is 6.30 p.m. , I am near a small town beach with neither life guards nor other officials on duty - on whose/which door should I knock on for permission? And this is my very typical situation. At the beginning of the day I did not know that I will have to do delivery to this area, to this small beach or park. And very little chances that I will ever come back to this place again.

So, my very simple original question was - What sort of punishment to expect from our brave police for a possible 20-minute long unauthorized MDing? And so far I only hear lessons such as I need to get a permission well in advance. I know it myself, but it is not an answer to my question.

 

[gobble-gobble]

What ever town you are in contact the town hall & ask for there rules & reg, on MD. The worst thing said will be no md or yes it's ok. Every area has different sets of rules to go by. If it state beaches you should have a permit, town beaches have there own stickers, county beaches you need a you can md. after a fee to get in. State you have to pay for also $20.00 for the permit & $8.00 every time you drive in. I do hunt local beaches after the life gaurds are gone & I have to show my town card to get in. I guess your lucky that you werent IDed b 4 you entered.

 

[Mirco]

What ever town you are in contact the town hall & ask for there rules & reg, on MD. The worst thing said will be no md or yes it's ok. Every area has different sets of rules to go by. If it state beaches you should have a permit, town beaches have there own stickers, county beaches you need a you can md. after a fee to get in. State you have to pay for also $20.00 for the permit & $8.00 every time you drive in. I do hunt local beaches after the life gaurds are gone & I have to show my town card to get in. I guess your lucky that you werent IDed b 4 you entered.

Thank you!
Actually I never took my MD from my car so far so that not to give them a pretext to arrest me and to talk to me and to treat me like a criminal that I am not.

Kinda beyond my understanding, why a very peaceful MDing activity is hated so much by many officials and public at large.

Why for millions of us who live in Bronx, Manhattan, Queens, Yonkers, Mount Vernon, New Rochelle only dirty ovecrowded Orchard Beach is left and all the best beaches of Long Island Sound are "privately" owned for a chosen few. Or maybe I am wrong and this is the only correct way it should be. Maybe, who knows.

 

[TreasurdiggrNY]

I do carry a MD with me every where I go . But I DO have permits for the places I hunt, I will knock on someones door & ask permission if I could hunt there yard or farm. I donot trespass, Always writen permission. This hobby is to important to me & others .
Good luck,

Excuse my stupidity, but if it is 6.30 p.m. , I am near a small town beach with neither life guards nor other officials on duty - on whose/which door should I knock on for permission? And this is my very typical situation. At the beginning of the day I did not know that I will have to do delivery to this area, to this small beach or park. And very little chances that I will ever come back to this place again.

So, my very simple original question was - What sort of punishment to expect from our brave police for a possible 20-minute long unauthorized MDing? And so far I only hear lessons such as I need to get a permission well in advance. I know it myself, but it is not an answer to my question.

I answered your question when I told you that the penalties vary by location. I am sure if you give a specific location you will get an answer as to what the penalty is, but you will get 10 others telling you not to break the MD Laws, it puts a bad light on our hobby. The real question is do you not care about the laws and will you break them if the penalty is not that bad? Seems like it from your attitude.

If your at a small town beach and it's 6:30pm and you don't know what the laws are you can't hunt there plain and simple get over it already, I don't care if it's 20 mins or 1 min you may be breaking the law.
What will the Police do? Who knows? Who cares? Don't do it. All the worrying about what will happen to you will not make for an enjoyable time, you do this to enjoy yourself right? Hunt where you know it's legal and keep on doing research to find new spots to enjoy yourself at. You may just find a spot nobody knew you could hunt.
Glenn

 

[jbow]

n/t

 

[Mirco]

I do carry a MD with me every where I go . But I DO have permits for the places I hunt, I will knock on someones door & ask permission if I could hunt there yard or farm. I donot trespass, Always writen permission. This hobby is to important to me & others .
Good luck,

Excuse my stupidity, but if it is 6.30 p.m. , I am near a small town beach with neither life guards nor other officials on duty - on whose/which door should I knock on for permission? And this is my very typical situation. At the beginning of the day I did not know that I will have to do delivery to this area, to this small beach or park. And very little chances that I will ever come back to this place again.

So, my very simple original question was - What sort of punishment to expect from our brave police for a possible 20-minute long unauthorized MDing? And so far I only hear lessons such as I need to get a permission well in advance. I know it myself, but it is not an answer to my question.

I answered your question when I told you that the penalties vary by location. I am sure if you give a specific location you will get an answer as to what the penalty is, but you will get 10 others telling you not to break the MD Laws, it puts a bad light on our hobby. The real question is do you not care about the laws and will you break them if the penalty is not that bad? Seems like it from your attitude.

If your at a small town beach and it's 6:30pm and you don't know what the laws are you can't hunt there plain and simple get over it already, I don't care if it's 20 mins or 1 min you may be breaking the law.
What will the Police do? Who knows? Who cares? Don't do it. All the worrying about what will happen to you will not make for an enjoyable time, you do this to enjoy yourself right? Hunt where you know it's legal and keep on doing research to find new spots to enjoy yourself at. You may just find a spot nobody knew you could hunt.
Glenn

My attitude? OK, thank you Sir.

I will follow your advice and will keep in my backyard. Like the rest of us - MDers will very soon - if we do not stop somehow this unexplainable harassment against harmless MDers.
You are aware I guess that two more MDing locations in NY were closed recently?

http://www.greattreasure.com/id4.html


Also, a fellow guy with MD found a piece of ordnance in the beach and reported to police. Instead of "Thank you for help!" the beach was closed for MDing right away. I doubt that next time the guy will report ANYTHING.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/29/nyregion/nyregionspecial2/29weeknj.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

I will stay in my back yard. I have no problem with it. Thank you for kind words, Sir.
Ciao!

 

[gobble-gobble]

I understand what your saying,It's up to us to try & keep the hobby, Everything about $,permits for this permits for that. Well, Good Hunting & Good Luck

 

[TreasurdiggrNY]

Hey Mirco,
I know 2 parks were removed from the list. When I got the notice about the 2 parks I emailed every NYC Council Member in the 5 Boros and the Parks Dept. Commissioner in an effort to get them back, what did you do?.

I encouraged many others to do the same, some have, some say you can't fight the system. I doubt Owl's Head Park will ever be allowed. I met with the Parks Dept. Director at Owl's Head Park to discuss the problems they're having there, I can see why it's off the list, can you?

Prospect Park is the other park, I am drafting a letter to go out to the attorney I spoke to who represents the 5 NYC Council Members who make up the Committee on Parks and Recreation as well as the Parks Commissioner. I feel we have a better chance with maybe having the park put back on the list, do you know why? I didn't think so.

Instead of caring or doing anything about the laws above I'm guessing you just want to know what the penalty is if you get caught by the brave police doing a quick 20 minute hunt at either of these locations right? That's what I thought.

Good Luck,
Glenn

 

[Mirco]

I understand what your saying,It's up to us to try & keep the hobby, Everything about $,permits for this permits for that. Well, Good Hunting & Good Luck

Not exactly. Not "everything" yet. We still can breathe without asking permission here. Not bad after all!

 

[Mirco]

Hey Mirco,
I know 2 parks were removed from the list. When I got the notice about the 2 parks I emailed every NYC Council Member in the 5 Boros and the Parks Dept. Commissioner in an effort to get them back, what did you do?.

I encouraged many others to do the same, some have, some say you can't fight the system. I doubt Owl's Head Park will ever be allowed. I met with the Parks Dept. Director at Owl's Head Park to discuss the problems they're having there, I can see why it's off the list, can you?

Prospect Park is the other park, I am drafting a letter to go out to the attorney I spoke to who represents the 5 NYC Council Members who make up the Committee on Parks and Recreation as well as the Parks Commissioner. I feel we have a better chance with maybe having the park put back on the list, do you know why? I didn't think so.

Instead of caring or doing anything about the laws above I'm guessing you just want to know what the penalty is if you get caught by the brave police doing a quick 20 minute hunt at either of these locations right? That's what I thought.

Good Luck,
Glenn

Just spoke to a lawyer. The answer was - "As long as an activity (MDing) is not included in the publicly displayed list of activities that are prohibited in a beach or park by all legal norms this activity (MDing) is considered NOT PROHIBITED. Period. And any charge, fine, ticket or any other punishment will be successfully challenged in the Court."

So, your advice was intentionally misleading, Sir.

Keep on doing smart things. Good luck.