Manual vs Auto Sensitivity in Mineralized Soil

[flysar]

I live in WA, along the Columbia River Gorge, and hunt in some tough soil conditions. I don't know anything about the soil composition other than some basalt and volcanic ash. If you've read my posts in the CTX, AT Pro, and Xterra forums you'll see I've used those machines with most coil combos looking for the best set up for the local conditions; many say it is not the machine but the experience of the user, that's another topic.

In September I committed myself to figuring out the CTX, appears to give the most stable TID at depth and I do believe I'm digging some deeper targets ? In my yard and a yard next door (both 1950's homes where I used all 3) the CTX did not turn up any additional coins. I read the forums almost daily and since Nov 1 I have spent at least 2 days hunting per week. After hunting the last 5 days straight I have a question about sensitivity.

What is the CTX recommended sensitivity level suggesting? I read here that is has something to do with 3 channels, are they frequencies or a range of frequencies, where can I read more about them so I can better understand my CTX?

I read here that Manual sets all 3 channels the same and Auto adjusts for soil conditions, sets the channels accordingly and then averages them for the displayed sensitivity number which in my case is normally higher than the suggested. So what is the best choice given certain conditions; say suggested sensitivity is less than 12 (happened many times) should I use Auto (the machine is smarter than me) or can I run it in Manual a little hot/chatty as many suggest for added depth or is that just hurting me "bright lights in Fog" analogy. Given your experience or testing at what point does operating in Manual, a little hot, actually help depth?

I suppose the best answer for my area regarding Auto vs Manual would be to tape off an area 10x10 in multiple areas that show variations in recommended sensitivity and do a little experimenting with golf tees & digging.

Thank you for all your posts/help in 2013 and HH in 2014... I'm kicking the new year off with some college football & little dirt hunting.

 

[JamesBondaka]

Happy new year!

I think your on the right track and somewhat answered all your own questions. Yes, generally speaking the machine is smarter than us all but there is "really" no right or wrong...on a consistent basis. Especially in our neck of the woods. Depending on were you are.....auto or manual might have an advantage. I played around with this a lot with the etrac and have continued to do so with the ctx. Most of the time...I don't see much difference and the ctx has more noise in manual. In sand or beach, things could be different but in mineralized ground....I'm going to stick with auto ....most of the time. I haven't had my ctx all that long but when it comes to some features on the ctx....its surprisingly close to the etrac and could be the same to some or all extent.

Give that experiment a try and let us know what happens.

 

[GateKeeper]

In what search mode have you been hunting in? Since your suggested sensitivity setting is showing you 12, that leads me to believe that YES, you have a higher mineralization soil. With that being said, I would hunt in the HIGH TRASH or GROUND COIN mode to help with the high minerals in your soil. If your machine still acts a bit erratic, you can also do a ground balance, but I don't think that would be necessary. Once your machine stabilizes, try offsetting the sensitivity in auto to +1, 2, or 3. If you cant, try offsetting it negatively for optimum results. Remember, each site can and will be different, it is up to you to decipher it to achieve the best hunting experience.

Try these suggestions and get back to us.

Gate

 

[INSAYN]

I too live in the PNW vortex. A few things I have discovered over the year of dirt fishing with the CTX keeps me confused yet interested at the same time.

My suggested sensitivity can range from as high as 21, to as low as 6. Mostly it will hover 10-15, but here is the odd thing.
Some areas with or without power lines, or possible underground EMI, my suggested sensitivity could read 11-15, yet I can run in Manual 27+ chatter free with reasonable depth on targets (6"-8"), but Auto+3 will only hit 18-20. Then there are areas where suggested is around 16-20, and I can't get Manual to shut the heck up until I have it down to 16 or lower, but when I switch over to Auto +3 it is calm and quiet runnint at 24.

I hit a park Friday with my 11" coil and found soil that was really really rare for the PNW. Suggested sensitivity was showing 21, and running 28-29 in Auto+3.
I could smoothly run Manual maxed at 30. I did find that it would squeak on tiny nails, and for the fun of it I dug and found 1" nail at 9"-10". Other part of the park was a bit closer to normal where I ran Manual at 26-27, where suggested was only 14-18. Pulled a 1905 Lewis and Clark Centennial Exposition medallion loud and clear at 10"-11" (about the size of a half).

Skip to Sunday where I ran my 6" coil and was digging wheat pennies like crazy anywhere from 4"-6" loud and clear! Running Manual 25 with suggested somewhere around 16. Auto+3 only gave me 18-20. No issues.

Come Monday morning at another park back with my stock coil. WOW! This soil was evil!!
Suggested in one area was 9-10, and there was no way I could get Manual to run even at 10. Screen looked like a paint ball fight going on, and audio was making my ears bleed.
Switched to Auto+3 and it would run but still chatty around 12 to 15. I could have just ran Auto +0 or go lower I suppose? Also found that pinpoint would keep showing 0 depth, but sweep would be 4"-5". I turned it off, reset the coil connection and tried again. Did it again, and did the same thing. Turned off, unplugged coil, pulled battery, and reattached everything again. It would finally give me a depth reading like normal, but continue to give me the above sensitivity results. Uggghhh!

The weird part was that I could be in one area and it was doable, but just put the coil over the grass in another, and it would go ballistic in Auto or Manual.
My buddy was running his V3i with a 12" coil and it was smooth and quiet.

So, I switched back to my 6" coil and my suggested Sensitivity jumped up to 18-20, and I could smoothly run Auto +3 and get 22-24.
I did notice that the area was made up with fill dirt as each plug was filled with bits of plastic and other nonmetalic or organic crap! Not sure if my stock coil was just pissed off at me for even swinging it over this fowl soil?

Another disturbing event that morning was the mine field. Some jack wad must have just got a new detector for Christmas and this was their first day using it. With the butchered up shallow grave, it looks like this person took a dull butter knife and a bent ice cream scoop to the sod. 3" deep, and nearly a 18" circle of sod ripped up and loosely tossed back where it came from. Then I find the rejected pull tab 2 feet to the side of the mutilation just sitting in the grass with roots still dangling from it. Jerk!
I spent a good half hour trying my best to patch up the other 10 failed plugs. Some even had the plug replaced upside down, is that even human!

Sorry to derail this thread. Stepping off my soap box now.

 

[unluckylester]

Hey guys,
I no longer hunt in Auto. After doing a noise cancel. I simply put it in manual with the screen wide open. This allows you to hear if the machine gets too "chatty". The best manual number is right before it gets too "chatty". Then i will start to discriminate or use a combine mode to hunt. This has improved my depth and finds greatly. I check periodically to see if it's too chatty, if it is i step it down a notch in manual. The best manual number i get in wisconsin is about 26 Auto plus 3(usually 21 tops)doesn't give me that great of depth compared to manual. I hope this helps.
Les

 

[sparkster]

Can someone please tell me how you adjust the manual sensitivity. The owners manual is useless in this regard.

Thanks in advance for your information. Must be operator lamness.

 

[Roland58]

Hold the Sensitivity button (to the left of the Open Book, in the middle) until the menu appears. The first entry says "Sensitivity" and off to the right you will see "Auto" or "Manual".....this is changed using the left and right buttons on either side of the Open Book button. Once on Manual, use the Down button (Ground Balance) to step down to the menu title "Manual" and adjust up and down using the left and right buttons to your desired level.

 

[tiftaaft]

I also live in SW Washington, and I have had the same experience with low auto sensitivity on my CTX. Because auto runs so quietly, and there are many that swear by auto+3, I was determined to make it work. Today, we had a rare break in the winter rainy weather so I took an extended lunch to a local park. I spent the first hour in auto+3 (it set the sensitivity between 12 and 14), and only got repeatable tones on targets at 3 and 4 ", modern clad and trash. As I was making my way back to my car to head back to work, I decided to flip into manual, at 21... my first target was a 6" 1942 wheat. I pulled two more wheats going back over the same ground I had just covered in auto at 6 and 7".

I am still fairly new at the CTX, a little over a month with it.. still on the step learning curve. But today, I pretty much decided to stick in manual as the chatter will allow, at least in these ground conditions, to get tones and id's deeper than 4" and uncover the older coins.

I would be interested to hear others thoughts on this as well, and if you have had similar experiences. Not sure when I will be able to get back out to try my new settings, but I will post how I do.

HH. Tim

 

[Jason in Enid]

I would be interested to hear others thoughts on this as well, and if you have had similar experiences. Not sure when I will be able to get back out to try my new settings, but I will post how I do.

HH. Tim

Here is what is most likely happening.... The CTX has 3 frequency "channels". Think of them as blocks of frequencies. When you are in manual sens operation, the detector is using all 3 channels simultaneously. When you use the Auto mode, the detector selects a single channel that is quietest.

Lots of EMI factors change constantly. Using Auto may give you best depth possible today and it may not tomorrow. Using manual will give you the best depth, but you may have so much noise that you give up the hunt. I always say that if you can use manual, then use it.

 

[Bryan V]

I'll chip in here too since I also live in Washington State.
I ran Auto +3 for quite awhile when I first got my CTX.
I did well but couldn't get past the 8" depth.
After reading about running manual sensitivity I started pushing the CTX and that's when
I started pulling more 8" coins and then constant 9" coins with a 10" every once in awhile.
I have never been able to get a dime past 10" in my ground yet.
The detector will be chatty and nails start coming alive with lots of falsing
so you have to try and find a ballence you can live with.
I find I can usually always run at 20 but shoot for 23 if I can.
If your new to the CTX maybe just run it in Auto +3 for a while. Pumping the power in bad ground with the CTX definitely complicates the hunt.
Lots of extra noises and nails that sound too good to pass up.
Even in Auto +3 the CTX will run circles around most detectors in bad ground.
Bryan

 

[IDXMonster]

Hey guys,
I no longer hunt in Auto. After doing a noise cancel. I simply put it in manual with the screen wide open. This allows you to hear if the machine gets too "chatty". The best manual number is right before it gets too "chatty". Then i will start to discriminate or use a combine mode to hunt. This has improved my depth and finds greatly. I check periodically to see if it's too chatty, if it is i step it down a notch in manual. The best manual number i get in wisconsin is about 26 Auto plus 3(usually 21 tops)doesn't give me that great of depth compared to manual. I hope this helps.
Les

You absolutely need to be out making some more videos,they are HILARIOUS!! I loved the one with the tractor spark plug O-rings and the metal detecting-turned mushroom hunt. We need more humor in these things and you have that! Great finds too,half dollars are EVERYONES friend!

 

[tiftaaft]

Thanks for the comments Jason and Bryan,

Jason, I definitely understand your comments about how manual vs. Auto sounds. Auto is defintely more quiet... and jn my recent experience, quiet because it wasn't sounding off on targets beyond that 4" mark. I just feel like I am passing over targets in auto... at least during this last hunt I felt that way... especially when I retraces my steps and got a few repeatable signals.

Bryan... I would be thrilled with 6-8" targets in auto... I must be doing something wrong, or interpreting what the ctx is trying to tell me... because I don't recall a single repeatable signal over 4" in auto. What part of WA are you in?

The more I think I know... the more I don't know. HA! The joy of detecting!

Thanks again for the comments guys...

 

[cjc]

The question you are asking is basically "the main one" with the CTX--getting some juice into the ground--but with a quiet signal. I'm mostly a beach gold hunter so my two cents may not apply to WA tough soils--but I do struggle with tuning for fresh water black sand when I hunt here in Canada. Ive just never felt that Auto does the CTX justice--it's capable of more with some tweaking. Ground / Coin is definitely the Separation mode for tough ground. Recovery fast will also smooth things out. Now we come to some "trade-offs". If you hope to run a pure open screen Auto may be your only choice. The alternative is to border your screen (top and / or sides like with Andy's gold prog or "Tadpole") to stop some of the many interference factors (ground, iron, rejects, power sources, fast water...) from jumping in continually. On the beach i tune over the worst ground and maybe do a noise cancel up higher than I plan to run. Then, where there is noise, I jump to a P2 with more reject. You will always hear more / deeper targets in a/ manual and b/ open screen--the trick is learning to mediate these against the noise. Working on a very slow, even sweep speed also helps. With the 17" it will sometimes need to be a crawl. When the machine is not processing fully--let it catch up. GB often. Try also reducing the Vol Gain to get rid of some of the smaller clucks / chirps. There are plusses and minuses to a machine a complex signal like the CTX but when you learn to manage these it will do some impressive stuff. In salt water I get rings down at 18"--stock coil. That represents a lot of trial and error though.
cjc
clivesgoldpage.com

 

[Bryan V]

Good stuff Clive. I will put this information to work.
Ground noise and nail Falsing is something I really need to focus on this next season with the CTX
Sweep speed is something I struggle with. Hard to change old habits.
Bryan

The question you are asking is basically "the main one" with the CTX--getting some juice into the ground--but with a quiet signal. I'm mostly a beach gold hunter so my two cents may not apply to WA tough soils--but I do struggle with tuning for fresh water black sand when I hunt here in Canada. Ive just never felt that Auto does the CTX justice--it's capable of more with some tweaking. Ground / Coin is definitely the Separation mode for tough ground. Recovery fast will also smooth things out. Now we come to some "trade-offs". If you hope to run a pure open screen Auto may be your only choice. The alternative is to border your screen (top and / or sides like with Andy's gold prog or "Tadpole") to stop some of the many interference factors (ground, iron, rejects, power sources, fast water...) from jumping in continually. On the beach i tune over the worst ground and maybe do a noise cancel up higher than I plan to run. Then, where there is noise, I jump to a P2 with more reject. You will always hear more / deeper targets in a/ manual and b/ open screen--the trick is learning to mediate these against the noise. Working on a very slow, even sweep speed also helps. With the 17" it will sometimes need to be a crawl. When the machine is not processing fully--let it catch up. GB often. Try also reducing the Vol Gain to get rid of some of the smaller clucks / chirps. There are plusses and minuses to a machine a complex signal like the CTX but when you learn to manage these it will do some impressive stuff. In salt water I get rings down at 18"--stock coil. That represents a lot of trial and error though.
cjc
clivesgoldpage.com

 

[Bryan V]

Bryan... I would be thrilled with 6-8" targets in auto... I must be doing something wrong, or interpreting what the ctx is trying to tell me... because I don't recall a single repeatable signal over 4" in auto. What part of WA are you in?

The more I think I know... the more I don't know. HA! The joy of detecting!

Thanks again for the comments guys...

Run the Auto +3. Not just Auto. But even so you should have no problem with a 6" coin even in Auto unless it's putting your
Sensitivity extremely low. There might not be deep targets were you are hunting too..
I would burry some coins at different depths and see what happens and play around with your settings.

I live east of Spokane on the Idaho boarder. I drive in to Spokane to do most of my hunting in the old parks.
If your ever in the area you are more than welcome to come along. The parks have been pounded hard but they still are giving up some keepers.
Bryan

 

[tiftaaft]

Thanks for the offer Bryan..I may have to take you up on that! I have family in the Clarkston/Lewiston area...

Yes, when I say auto, I mean Auto +3... when I'm in auto I am always in +3. I went out to a newer school today and it was suggesting a sens of 8, as an example. Auto set the sens at 14, and as I said, I was running +3. I definitely need to build a coin garden.

I live in the Vancouver area, and have been cutting my CTX teeth on a mix of modern parks and schools, and a few older ones that I can find in Vancouver.. but will be focusing more on the rich history in the Portland area for this coming hunt year. There are many parks in Portland that were built in the late 1800's and earlt 1900's.. All have been pounded hard, but hopefully mostly by machines that can't separate targets like the CTX can, at least that is my wishful thinking. Likewise, if you are ever in the SW WA area, let me know and we can find a spot or two to hunt.

Tim

 

[Jason in Enid]

The ground balance feature is something that isn't needed for the vast majority of CTX users, but when you are getting single digit sensitivity numbers, you should give it a try (if you haven't already been using it)

 

[Bryan V]

yes a coin garden is a big help for learning your detector.
Make sure at least one of your coins is at the very edge of detection and you will be able to dial
In the settings that hit the best.
Get Andy'ys book if you don't already have it. Should be shipped with every CTX IMO.

It's amazing the difference between one side of our state and the other.
Your out detecting and I'm staring at over 2 feet of snow in my yard with single digit and below 0 temps heading my way.
I need a motor home so I can scoot across the state in the winter for my detecting fix.
That Pacific Ocean is quite the temperature regulator for you guys on that side of the sate.

Bryan

 

[tiftaaft]

yes a coin garden is a big help for learning your detector.
Make sure at least one of your coins is at the very edge of detection and you will be able to dial
In the settings that hit the best.
Get Andy'ys book if you don't already have it. Should be shipped with every CTX IMO.

It's amazing the difference between one side of our state and the other.
Your out detecting and I'm staring at over 2 feet of snow in my yard with single digit and below 0 temps heading my way.
I need a motor home so I can scoot across the state in the winter for my detecting fix.
That Pacific Ocean is quite the temperature regulator for you guys on that side of the sate.

Bryan

Born and raised in Yakima... so I know what you mean about winters on the other side of the cascades.

Yes, Andy's CTX book is my bible these days. I would be completely lost without it.

Tim

 

[flysar]

Glad to see a few more comments on this post and a couple WA people too. I've been running the CTX since late 2013 and I still haven't learned all of it's capabilities.
I switch back and forth between A+3 and Manual depending on the day I'm having. A+3 when I feel like cruising in relative quiet and digging only those solid signals and Manual when I'm at a known old site and haven't dug any or just a few silver or wheats.
I live about 2 East of Vancouver, along the Gorge and grew up in Clarkston, WA... small world.