Lower rods for the CTX...

[sgoss66]

Hi all.

With all three coils for my CTX, I had considered that I might like to have one or two spare lower rods, to make coil swaps easier. However, with new Minelab CTX rods priced in the $175 to $200 range, I had basically written that idea off as a way-too-expensive luxury. However, I noticed recently that Anderson makes (made?) lower rods for the CTX, and they seem to run around $100 new, obviously at least a little bit more affordable. Finding one or two of these used, at some point, could put the idea "back on my radar" so to speak.

So, my question is, in anticipation of maybe seeing used Anderson's at some point, does anyone have experience with the Anderson rods? Are they similar in length to the Minelab rods? Any pros or cons that anyone might know of, with the Anderson rods as compared to Minelab's?

By the way, it seems there are "collapsible" two piece ones, and "regular" one-piece ones. I'm speaking of the one-piece rods.

Thanks,

Steve

 

[Ben Town]

I got 2 Anderson Rods for my CTX coils.
I have one on my 17” coil and the other on the stock 11” coil and then I just have the stock rod on my 6” coil.
They are made well and look great, fit and operation is just like stock, seems like they maybe just a bit longer but not much.
The way the Anderson Rods are made makes them a better choice as the opening the cable goes through is placed in a position that it does not contort the cable when the coil folds up.
That’s been a problem with Minelab coils the cable cracks and breaks where it goes into the coil and there’s no pressure there with the Anderson Rod, you will see the difference when you get on and compare.
It seems to be worse on the 2 bigger coils and not so bad on the 6” so that’s why I just use the stock rod there.
I got mine at the Bootcamp I attended at a little better price , have not priced them lately so shop around and see if you can get a deal on 2.
BT

 

[IDXMonster]

Steve,you’re right about wanting rods for all your coils. It’s SO easy to bop back and forth switching out coils, but without the rods...well,you owned Explorers! Threading the cables is WAY easier on the CTX if you must,but for someone like you who will constantly being experimenting,you want rods for all coils.
You should have 2 different sets of coils for each machine,plus 6 rods for all the coils!

 

[sprchng]

Incredibly easy to make your own out of some 3/4" schedule 40 pvc , a small block of wood for the mount , and some clever tape and paint,,,,costs about $6. There is a thread here about it somewhere. If I have time later I'll seek it out for you

 

[sprchng]

I wasn't able to find the original thread but this is close. Perhaps one of the guys who made them will chime in with TrpnBils original

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?86,2284065,page=1

 

[david.di]

I will soon have this arrangement for all my CTX3030 coils that I land hunt with.

Made up of part of a carb fibre camera monopod(example pictured and helps a lot with fitting into the CTX3030 upper tube if you get one with the 28mm upper tube) . The the lower carb fibre shaft is stock , but modded e-trac/explorer/safari.

Over all no modifications done to CTX3030 achieve this. Just the other parts that I used to make this telescopic version of the CTX3030 lower shaft.

Not cheap as PVC tubing but it's compact and works great for me.

 

[sprchng]

Finally found it. http://www.findmall.com/read.php?86,2282942,2283075#msg-2283075
I found the cleanest way to make the access hole for the cable was with a pretty coarse (80 grit) belt on the belt sander and just plunge the PVC through the belt enough to make the correct size hole,,,,no square edges or corners to deal with but a sharp edge on the inside which you should probably dull before inserting a cable.

 

[Dan(NM)]

I made 3 out of pvc pipe and 3/4" square pine stock. I should have used oak, but I didn't have any at the time . I had most of the stuff on hand, except thin rubber washers. It may have taken maybe 30-40 minutes each. No way in the world I'm paying 150 a rod lol, plus I'm just a cheap sob!!

 

[stephenscool]

The lower clevis is about the same size as a cz21 if anyone feels like tinkering. I might come up with something soon if I can find the time

 

[sprchng]

The PVC is indeed a bit skinny but can be thickened easily with a few layers of tape. I painted mine black first and then carefully applied a couple of layers of 2" clear packaging tape down the entire length. Gave it a nice shiny factory looking finish and has been surprisingly durable since this thread was first posted. I will admit that I picked up a $50 Anderson rod which is very nice now that I took the "keying" bolt off of the end. I have no idea what the idea of having that alignment cog on the end of the factory shaft but it's a real PITA.

 

[sgoss66]

Guys, this is good stuff.

Thanks!

You have me thinking now, about building my own. I have done some looking online, and have found some carbon-fiber rods that might work; PVC is another option as Dan has shown.

Hmm.

Looks like the lower part, that must fit inside the "rod" and allow the coil to attach, might be the hardest part to "make."

Has anyone ever tried 3-D printing? I have no idea how it works, but it would be great to "3-D print" that lower portion of the rod where the coil attaches. If you could 3-D print a plastic piece that would match that lower section of the Minelab rod, and include like a 2" or so extension the same size as the inside diamter of the rod -- you could then slide it up inside the rod and glue it in, and presto!

Hmm...

If that won't work, Dan's "PVC pipe and wood block" idea would work, too...

Thanks, guys, for this info. Anyone else who wants to chime in (for the 3-D printing question, or any other info), please do so!

(and thanks for the links to the other threads).

Steve

 

[stephenscool]

Guys, this is good stuff.

Thanks!

You have me thinking now, about building my own. I have done some looking online, and have found some carbon-fiber rods that might work; PVC is another option as Dan has shown.

Hmm.

Looks like the lower part, that must fit inside the "rod" and allow the coil to attach, might be the hardest part to "make."

Has anyone ever tried 3-D printing? I have no idea how it works, but it would be great to "3-D print" that lower portion of the rod where the coil attaches. If you could 3-D print a plastic piece that would match that lower section of the Minelab rod, and include like a 2" or so extension the same size as the inside diamter of the rod -- you could then slide it up inside the rod and glue it in, and presto!

Hmm...

If that won't work, Dan's "PVC pipe and wood block" idea would work, too...

Thanks, guys, for this info. Anyone else who wants to chime in (for the 3-D printing question, or any other info), please do so!

(and thanks for the links to the other threads).

Steve

3d printer will work as long as it's not the basement cheap kind. That piece is about the same size as cz21 clevis that can be picked up cheaply and taken apart to make a ctx shaft.
3d quality part your looking at a minimum of $30 plus the design few

 

[sgoss66]

OK, stephenscool. When you say "cz21 clevis," are you talking about the lower part of the rod, where the coil bolt goes through? I presume you are suggesting cutting off the lowest, say, 4" of the rod, and attaching that to whatever material (carbon fiber or PVC) I am using for the CTX lower rod?

When I look for a CZ21 rod, what I see from Fisher is a 26.5" rod, that claims to be compatible with "all Teknetics and Fisher units."

If this IS what you are saying, I'd be curious -- do you know the outside diameter on the CZ-21 lower rod?

Steve

 

[sprchng]

Guys, this is good stuff.

Thanks!

You have me thinking now, about building my own. I have done some looking online, and have found some carbon-fiber rods that might work; PVC is another option as Dan has shown.

Hmm.

Looks like the lower part, that must fit inside the "rod" and allow the coil to attach, might be the hardest part to "make."

Has anyone ever tried 3-D printing? I have no idea how it works, but it would be great to "3-D print" that lower portion of the rod where the coil attaches. If you could 3-D print a plastic piece that would match that lower section of the Minelab rod, and include like a 2" or so extension the same size as the inside diamter of the rod -- you could then slide it up inside the rod and glue it in, and presto!

Hmm...

If that won't work, Dan's "PVC pipe and wood block" idea would work, too...

Thanks, guys, for this info. Anyone else who wants to chime in (for the 3-D printing question, or any other info), please do so!



(and thanks for the links to the other threads).
Steve

Why not 3D the entire rod?
Simplicity is sublime

 

[stephenscool]

Guys, this is good stuff.

Thanks!

You have me thinking now, about building my own. I have done some looking online, and have found some carbon-fiber rods that might work; PVC is another option as Dan has shown.

Hmm.

Looks like the lower part, that must fit inside the "rod" and allow the coil to attach, might be the hardest part to "make."

Has anyone ever tried 3-D printing? I have no idea how it works, but it would be great to "3-D print" that lower portion of the rod where the coil attaches. If you could 3-D print a plastic piece that would match that lower section of the Minelab rod, and include like a 2" or so extension the same size as the inside diamter of the rod -- you could then slide it up inside the rod and glue it in, and presto!

Hmm...

If that won't work, Dan's "PVC pipe and wood block" idea would work, too...

Thanks, guys, for this info. Anyone else who wants to chime in (for the 3-D printing question, or any other info), please do so!



(and thanks for the links to the other threads).
Steve

Why not 3D the entire rod?
Simplicity is sublime

Won't fit in the printer. Expensive and will be heavy. Buying a cf shaft will cost about $10. The expensive and most troublesome section is where the bolts go through (clevis)

 

[stephenscool]

OK, stephenscool. When you say "cz21 clevis," are you talking about the lower part of the rod, where the coil bolt goes through? I presume you are suggesting cutting off the lowest, say, 4" of the rod, and attaching that to whatever material (carbon fiber or PVC) I am using for the CTX lower rod?

When I look for a CZ21 rod, what I see from Fisher is a 26.5" rod, that claims to be compatible with "all Teknetics and Fisher units."

If this IS what you are saying, I'd be curious -- do you know the outside diameter on the CZ-21 lower rod?

Steve

Not near my little workshop to take a photo comparing the cz to the ctx... but the diameter is almost identical. They could be interchangeable with a little MacGyvering.
Attached photo is of a 3d printed excal clevis. Professional quality on a $100k printer. It will not work on the ctx.

 

[sgoss66]

OK, stephenscool, that looks really, really good (that Excal piece). We are getting close to something that might actually be viable here, in terms of rods. I'm thinking possibly even buying carbon-fiber rods in "bulk" (say 10 or 20 of them), to get better pricing, and then maybe there'd be several folks interested in building their own lower rods. Are there any others interested in this, if I can work this all out?


Here are my questions, at this point...

What size, exactly, OD, will work with the CTX. Without a digital caliper and just doing a regular measurement with ruler today, it looked like my CTX rod's outside diameter is 28 mm...but again, that's just using a ruler, not a caliper. The actual measurement could be give or take a tenth of a mm or two. I will verify before buying, but I think 28mm will work. I would like to talk with AngerManagement, a member here; I have sent him a PM. He has already done this, and he said, in the other thread, that 27.8 to 27.9 mm is what you need -- but it really looked to me, when I looked at my CTX rod today, like 28 mm would work. I am not sure if you can "sand" carbon fiber, or how you'd reduce the diameter a bit, if needed. Anyone know?

Anyway, once I were to find the proper-sized CF rods and get them in hand, the rest doesn't appear to be too difficult, EXCEPT for that lower piece.

Here's what I know...the "width" of that lower piece, that needs to go between the coil ears, needs to be rougly 20 mm. The CTX piece is 20 mm, but then the coil washers stick out a bit farther, maybe 1mm at most on each side. So I would need some nylon washers as well. That's easy. But anyway, 20 mm wide. Then, the other end (the non-coil-bolt end) of this lower piece would either need to slide OVER the bottom of the CF rod, or INTO it. To slide over the outside of the CF rod (which is how it is on the CTX), you'd need to somehow build that lower piece with a hollow tubular end with an inside diameter of like 28.2 to 28.4 mm (to slide over the CF rod). The other option -- as in that 3D-printed Excal piece shown above -- is to slide it INSIDE the CF tube; a 28 mm CF tube has an inside diameter of 26 mm, so the piece that slides inside the tube would need to be like 25.6 to 25.8 mm outside diameter. Just so happens that 25.4 mm is one inch; maybe it could work at 25.4 mm, with the glue/epoxy/whatever filling the rest of the space. I did see some black nylon (nylon 6,6) rods that have an OD of 1" (25.4 mm); perhaps these could be used -- one end sliding into the CF rod, and the the other end sanded flat on each side to a width of 20 to 22 mm to fit between the coil ears? This could be one way of doing it, without having to 3D print anything.

Anyway, I'm not sure what the outside diameter of that 3D-printed Excal piece's rod is, but since stephenscool says it won't work, it must be smaller than 1" (25.4 mm). Otherwise, that might have been able to be "MacGyvered," as he said, to work.

If we can solve this issue (that lower piece), then making these would be pretty easy -- and apparently CHEAP. Where are you getting carbon-fiber rods for $10, stephenscool?

The ONLY other issue, is cutting the slot for the coil wire to fit inside. I'm not sure what the proper tool is for cutting carbon fiber, but I'm sure a hacksaw would work. I'd like to find a way to do it neatly however...

As I mentioned above, are there any others who would be interested in this, assuming I can get it all figured out and make it all work well? I like to think it could be done for less than, say, $40 in parts...

Steve

 

[stephenscool]

OK, stephenscool, that looks really, really good (that Excal piece). We are getting close to something that might actually be viable here, in terms of rods. I'm thinking possibly even buying carbon-fiber rods in "bulk" (say 10 or 20 of them), to get better pricing, and then maybe there'd be several folks interested in building their own lower rods. Are there any others interested in this, if I can work this all out?


Here are my questions, at this point...

What size, exactly, OD, will work with the CTX. Without a digital caliper and just doing a regular measurement with ruler today, it looked like my CTX rod's outside diameter is 28 mm...but again, that's just using a ruler, not a caliper. The actual measurement could be give or take a tenth of a mm or two. I will verify before buying, but I think 28mm will work. I would like to talk with AngerManagement, a member here; I have sent him a PM. He has already done this, and he said, in the other thread, that 27.8 to 27.9 mm is what you need -- but it really looked to me, when I looked at my CTX rod today, like 28 mm would work. I am not sure if you can "sand" carbon fiber, or how you'd reduce the diameter a bit, if needed. Anyone know?

Anyway, once I were to find the proper-sized CF rods and get them in hand, the rest doesn't appear to be too difficult, EXCEPT for that lower piece.

Here's what I know...the "width" of that lower piece, that needs to go between the coil ears, needs to be rougly 20 mm. The CTX piece is 20 mm, but then the coil washers stick out a bit farther, maybe 1mm at most on each side. So I would need some nylon washers as well. That's easy. But anyway, 20 mm wide. Then, the other end (the non-coil-bolt end) of this lower piece would either need to slide OVER the bottom of the CF rod, or INTO it. To slide over the outside of the CF rod (which is how it is on the CTX), you'd need to somehow build that lower piece with a hollow tubular end with an inside diameter of like 28.2 to 28.4 mm (to slide over the CF rod). The other option -- as in that 3D-printed Excal piece shown above -- is to slide it INSIDE the CF tube; a 28 mm CF tube has an inside diameter of 26 mm, so the piece that slides inside the tube would need to be like 25.6 to 25.8 mm outside diameter. Just so happens that 25.4 mm is one inch; maybe it could work at 25.4 mm, with the glue/epoxy/whatever filling the rest of the space. I did see some black nylon (nylon 6,6) rods that have an OD of 1" (25.4 mm); perhaps these could be used -- one end sliding into the CF rod, and the the other end sanded flat on each side to a width of 20 to 22 mm to fit between the coil ears? This could be one way of doing it, without having to 3D print anything.

Anyway, I'm not sure what the outside diameter of that 3D-printed Excal piece's rod is, but since stephenscool says it won't work, it must be smaller than 1" (25.4 mm). Otherwise, that might have been able to be "MacGyvered," as he said, to work.

If we can solve this issue (that lower piece), then making these would be pretty easy -- and apparently CHEAP. Where are you getting carbon-fiber rods for $10, stephenscool?

The ONLY other issue, is cutting the slot for the coil wire to fit inside. I'm not sure what the proper tool is for cutting carbon fiber, but I'm sure a hacksaw would work. I'd like to find a way to do it neatly however...

As I mentioned above, are there any others who would be interested in this, assuming I can get it all figured out and make it all work well? I like to think it could be done for less than, say, $40 in parts...

Steve

I live in Asia near the actual factories that produce most of this stuff. I'm not sure what Anderson is charging but of its on the $100 range or so it's not a bad deal.
Making them would be easy... the challenge I'm considering taking on is reducing the lower shaft , as starters, from 28mm? To something like 15mm. Lowers weight, easier to use in water and bushes.. also easy to pack .
Photo is of an excal that I recently made for a friend. Fraction of the weight and size but super strong. Don't make them for profit.
Doing the ctx is an.entirely different beast. The stumbling block would be the coil cable 。。。where and how to hide it.
Most cf has a thin layer of polyester plastic around the poles... that's why thet feel slippery when wet. I wouldn't suggest sanding it down. If you really want poles pm me with exact size to 0.1mm and I will hook you up.. p m me.. but remember I'm in Asia and shipping isn't cheap. Not at home right now to do actual measurements for the next few days

 

[sgoss66]

stephenscool --

I am going to send you my email address via PM, so that we can talk a bit more, if you are willing.

If I can get this process ironed out, I am going to make a few...

Steve

 

[sgoss66]

Hi all --

I am making progress...

I just heard back from someone I checked with last night, via ebay --a carbon-fiber tube seller. I can get 10 Carbon-Fiber tubes, 28mm outside diameter, 26mm inside diameter, and 1 meter long (several inches more than enough length for a lower rod), shipped to me for $269 -- or $26.90 per tube. I am checking with the supplier to see if they could be built to 27.8 mm, for the same price. I will also check with stephenscool.

I will report back; meanwhile -- would anyone here be interested in one or two of these tubes, presuming I go this route? -- no profit desired, just looking to help others out who may be interested. If I can get eight other tubes accounted for (I need two), I could place such an order...

Steve