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Low batterys = worse performance ??
- Thread starter targets
- Start date
I don't have a clue. It really depends on how well Tesoro regulates the power from the battery.
There are some newer cutting edge flashlights that regulates the power from the the battery so well that they maintain the same brightness (power) until the battery is almost depleted.
I've switched over to using rechargeable batteries. These Maha 9.6 Using this charger MH-C490F Stealth
I like the low discharge type batteries, because once charged they hold their charge for a very long time.
I recharge after each use, regardless of how many hours I put on them.
The good thing about rechargeable batteries, they keep about the same voltage until the very end.
I've never had to change batteries, even if I hunt hard all day long.
I always know that my detectors are running at full performance.
tabman
There are some newer cutting edge flashlights that regulates the power from the the battery so well that they maintain the same brightness (power) until the battery is almost depleted.
I've switched over to using rechargeable batteries. These Maha 9.6 Using this charger MH-C490F Stealth
I like the low discharge type batteries, because once charged they hold their charge for a very long time.
I recharge after each use, regardless of how many hours I put on them.
The good thing about rechargeable batteries, they keep about the same voltage until the very end.
I've never had to change batteries, even if I hunt hard all day long.
I always know that my detectors are running at full performance.
tabman
Terry Soloman
New member
Don't use batteries past 14-15 hours. I recently started using rechargable Nickel-Zinc AA batteries and could not be more pleased!
I get an easy 15-hours between charges!
I get an easy 15-hours between charges!
Terry Soloman said:Don't use batteries past 14-15 hours. I recently started using rechargable Nickel-Zinc AA batteries and could not be more pleased!
I get an easy 15-hours between charges!
I'm set for AA batteries, but I don't have a detector that uses AA batteries. I use this charger La Crosse 700 with these batteries Eneloop
I'm a flashoholic. So I know my AA and AAA batteries and chargers. Candlepowerforum
What I finally decided to go with is the best for the money. Remember, your battery life is only as good as your weakest battery. This charger will tell you how much power each battery is holding.
tabman
Terry Soloman
New member
It is my opinion, just my opinion, that Ni-MH rechargables are yesterday's technology. You get much better voltage, a lot longer, with the Nickel-Zinc.
Terry Soloman said:
I agree with most of what you stated. However, the huge short coming of the Nickel-Zinc battery is its HIGH self discharge rate. The batteries that I use in my detectors have enough power to last a full day then some. I recharge the batteries after each use regardless of how many hours I put on them. The type of Ni-MH rechargeable batteries that I use also are the LOW self discharge type. They hold 85% of their charge for a full year. So once charged, I don't have to worry about hitting the field with a weak self discharged battery. The batteries in the back-up detectors are always ready to go, regardless when it was when I last charged them.
The AA charger that I use tells me exactly how weak or strong a battery is. If you have a bad or weak battery in a group of 4 or 8 batteries, your operating time is based on the weakest battery of the group that you put into your detector. So, it's very important to know the condition of each battery. Why throw away 4 or 8 batteries, because of one bad or weak battery? The smart charger that I use also reconditions the batteries so they stay at peak performance. Rechargeable batteries need to be cycled to through a discharge and charge cycle to keep them in top shape. Here are some battery and charger gurus. candlepowerforum
tabman
I found this review on Nickel-Zinc rechargeable batteries. They may be newer technology, but not better tech. I'm sticking with the Eneloop batteries and LaCrosse BC-700 charger for my AA & AAA battery needs.
Nickel-Zinc battery technology not exactly as advertised, July 19, 2009
By
NLee the Engineer (Nashua, NH) - See all my reviews
(TOP 10 REVIEWER)
This review is from: PowerGenix ZR-PGX1HRAA-4B 1 Hour Quick Charger with 4 AA 1.6v NiZn Rechargeable Batteries (Electronics)
This product (PowerGenix 4-Position Charger with 4 AA High Voltage 1.6v 2500 mWh ZiNc Rechargeable Batteries) contains an 'one hour' charger specially designed for Nickel-Zinc AA/AAA cells. But it does not fully recharge to 100% within one hour. If you read the fine prints, it actually says "For maximum capacity from batteries charge up to 2.5 hours".
Despite its misleading name, this is actually a decent 'smart' charger. It works from universal input voltage (100-240V), and accepts 1-4 AA cells or 1-2 AAA cells. Each cell is charged individually (not in pairs). The red LED lights up during charging, and the green LED lights up when done. Just remember that you must not use this NiZn charger for NiMH cells, and vice versa.
The batteries are the new Nickel-Zinc rechargeable AA cells. The greatest selling feature of NiZn cell is its higher terminal voltage. The nominal operating voltage of NiZn is 1.65V, which is very close to alkaline and 30% higher than NiMH (1.25V nominal). However, when freshly charged, the NiZn terminal voltage is around 1.85V, which is dangerously high for most battery-operated appliances.
Upon closer examination, many of the alleged benefits of NiZn turn out to be just marketing hypes. For examples:
"Higher Energy Density":
Despite what the confusing rating on the package ("2500 milli-WATT-hour") may suggest, the PowerGenix AA cell does NOT contain more energy than a SANYO eneloop AA cell. This is because its current capacity is much lower at just 1500 milli-Ampere-hour (based on data sheet of PowerGenix AA cell, and verified by my own testing).
- Energy in eneloop AA cell: 1.25V * 2000mAh = 2500mWh
- Energy in PowerGenix AA cell: 1.65V * 1500mAh = 2475mWh
As an example: Suppose a set of 4 eneloop AA cells can power your external flash unit for 1500 shots, then a set of 4 PowerGenix AA cells will provide roughly the same number of shots. The difference is that your flash unit will recycle about 30% faster with the NiZn cells due to 30% higher battery voltage. On the other hand, this high rate of fire could cause the flash to over-heat and burn out.
"Long Cycle Life":
PowerGenix claims that NiZn has a service life that 'meets or beats' that of NiMH cells. But according to technical data found on PowerGenix web site, the NiZn cell is only rated for 200 cycles at 100% deep discharge. Most NiMH cells are rated for 500-1000 deep discharge cycles.
"Long Shelf Life":
PowerGenix claims the NiZn cells have longer shelf life than Lead-Acid batteries (which are notorious for high self-discharge rate), but did not compare against NiMH cells. In the "Charging Procedure" section, it says to recharge the NiZn battery every 30 days!
In summary: While the higher voltage offered by PowerGenix NiZn cells sounds attractive, it could damage or shorten the life span of your battery-operated appliances. In addition, NiZn cell does not pack more energy than eneloop NiMH cell, yet it suffers from lower cycle life and higher self-discharge rate.
On the other hand, suppose you have an inexpensive camera (*cough*Kodak*cough*) that does not work well with NiMH cells, then the higher voltage offered by NiZn cells may be exactly what you need. If your camera gets fried... oh well, at least you have an excuse to upgrade to a better camera!
[Update on Feb 9, 2010]
Several people have commented that my review above is heavy on technical data and not on personal usage experience. Please note that it was written shortly after NiZn AA cell was introduced. See my other review on PowerGenix ZRPGX-AA8 AA 8 Pack, which was written 3 months after this one. It includes my preliminary test results on self-discharge rate (good) and cell longevity (not so good).
Another point to note is that: since I'm an engineer, I'm overly concerned about applying 20% higher voltage (1.8V vs. 1.5V) to any electronic appliances. For example, I have tested my MAGLITE SP2209H 2-AA Cell Mini LED Flashlight over difference input voltage, and concluded that applying anything higher than 3.3V is dangerous (see my Customer Image for details). But other people may be happy to get extra light from higher voltage, without knowing that this can severely shorten the lifespan of the LED. Ignorance is bliss.
[Update on Nov 21, 2010]
My original review was written more than one year ago. At that time, I was just pointing out the marketing hypes surrounding the release of this product. Since then, I also found NiZn cells to be very poor in terms of quality and longevity.
My first set of four NiZn cells was used for capacity testing and long-term self-discharge testing. They have gone though maybe 20-30 deep discharge/recharge cycles (discharged down to 0.9V only, not 0V) over the past year. As of right now, two out of four cells have already failed, suffering from voltage depression and rapid self-discharge problems. The other two suffered from reduced capacity (~1200mAh, down from the original 1500mAh). The PowerGenix '1-hour' charger needs to detect 1.9V during charging, before it can change from constant-current mode to constant-voltage mode. When voltage-depression hits a cell, its voltage cannot reach 1.9V during charging, so the NiZn charger will simply fry the cell!
[Update Jan 31, 2011]
I recently discovered two other problems with the PowerGenix '1-hour' charger.
1. If a NiZn cell has been severely over-discharged and its voltage drops below 0.5V, the charger may not be able to detect its presence. If you insert this 'dead' cell together with three other good cells, the charger will not give you any warning signal (red LED flashing). But by the time the charger finished charging (green LED on), this dead cell is still empty. In this case, you need to use a 'dumb' NiMH charger to charge the dead cell for a few minutes, so that it can be recognized by the PowerGenix charger again.
2. If you store a set of fully charged batteries in this unplugged charger, each cell will be draining a current about 5.7mA into the charger. That means after about 10 days, all cells will be completely drained! With most other NiMH chargers I have tested, the leakage current is only 0.05-0.5mA, so you can store cells in them for several months without too much loss.
Nickel-Zinc battery technology not exactly as advertised, July 19, 2009
By
NLee the Engineer (Nashua, NH) - See all my reviews
(TOP 10 REVIEWER)
This review is from: PowerGenix ZR-PGX1HRAA-4B 1 Hour Quick Charger with 4 AA 1.6v NiZn Rechargeable Batteries (Electronics)
This product (PowerGenix 4-Position Charger with 4 AA High Voltage 1.6v 2500 mWh ZiNc Rechargeable Batteries) contains an 'one hour' charger specially designed for Nickel-Zinc AA/AAA cells. But it does not fully recharge to 100% within one hour. If you read the fine prints, it actually says "For maximum capacity from batteries charge up to 2.5 hours".
Despite its misleading name, this is actually a decent 'smart' charger. It works from universal input voltage (100-240V), and accepts 1-4 AA cells or 1-2 AAA cells. Each cell is charged individually (not in pairs). The red LED lights up during charging, and the green LED lights up when done. Just remember that you must not use this NiZn charger for NiMH cells, and vice versa.
The batteries are the new Nickel-Zinc rechargeable AA cells. The greatest selling feature of NiZn cell is its higher terminal voltage. The nominal operating voltage of NiZn is 1.65V, which is very close to alkaline and 30% higher than NiMH (1.25V nominal). However, when freshly charged, the NiZn terminal voltage is around 1.85V, which is dangerously high for most battery-operated appliances.
Upon closer examination, many of the alleged benefits of NiZn turn out to be just marketing hypes. For examples:
"Higher Energy Density":
Despite what the confusing rating on the package ("2500 milli-WATT-hour") may suggest, the PowerGenix AA cell does NOT contain more energy than a SANYO eneloop AA cell. This is because its current capacity is much lower at just 1500 milli-Ampere-hour (based on data sheet of PowerGenix AA cell, and verified by my own testing).
- Energy in eneloop AA cell: 1.25V * 2000mAh = 2500mWh
- Energy in PowerGenix AA cell: 1.65V * 1500mAh = 2475mWh
As an example: Suppose a set of 4 eneloop AA cells can power your external flash unit for 1500 shots, then a set of 4 PowerGenix AA cells will provide roughly the same number of shots. The difference is that your flash unit will recycle about 30% faster with the NiZn cells due to 30% higher battery voltage. On the other hand, this high rate of fire could cause the flash to over-heat and burn out.
"Long Cycle Life":
PowerGenix claims that NiZn has a service life that 'meets or beats' that of NiMH cells. But according to technical data found on PowerGenix web site, the NiZn cell is only rated for 200 cycles at 100% deep discharge. Most NiMH cells are rated for 500-1000 deep discharge cycles.
"Long Shelf Life":
PowerGenix claims the NiZn cells have longer shelf life than Lead-Acid batteries (which are notorious for high self-discharge rate), but did not compare against NiMH cells. In the "Charging Procedure" section, it says to recharge the NiZn battery every 30 days!
In summary: While the higher voltage offered by PowerGenix NiZn cells sounds attractive, it could damage or shorten the life span of your battery-operated appliances. In addition, NiZn cell does not pack more energy than eneloop NiMH cell, yet it suffers from lower cycle life and higher self-discharge rate.
On the other hand, suppose you have an inexpensive camera (*cough*Kodak*cough*) that does not work well with NiMH cells, then the higher voltage offered by NiZn cells may be exactly what you need. If your camera gets fried... oh well, at least you have an excuse to upgrade to a better camera!
[Update on Feb 9, 2010]
Several people have commented that my review above is heavy on technical data and not on personal usage experience. Please note that it was written shortly after NiZn AA cell was introduced. See my other review on PowerGenix ZRPGX-AA8 AA 8 Pack, which was written 3 months after this one. It includes my preliminary test results on self-discharge rate (good) and cell longevity (not so good).
Another point to note is that: since I'm an engineer, I'm overly concerned about applying 20% higher voltage (1.8V vs. 1.5V) to any electronic appliances. For example, I have tested my MAGLITE SP2209H 2-AA Cell Mini LED Flashlight over difference input voltage, and concluded that applying anything higher than 3.3V is dangerous (see my Customer Image for details). But other people may be happy to get extra light from higher voltage, without knowing that this can severely shorten the lifespan of the LED. Ignorance is bliss.
[Update on Nov 21, 2010]
My original review was written more than one year ago. At that time, I was just pointing out the marketing hypes surrounding the release of this product. Since then, I also found NiZn cells to be very poor in terms of quality and longevity.
My first set of four NiZn cells was used for capacity testing and long-term self-discharge testing. They have gone though maybe 20-30 deep discharge/recharge cycles (discharged down to 0.9V only, not 0V) over the past year. As of right now, two out of four cells have already failed, suffering from voltage depression and rapid self-discharge problems. The other two suffered from reduced capacity (~1200mAh, down from the original 1500mAh). The PowerGenix '1-hour' charger needs to detect 1.9V during charging, before it can change from constant-current mode to constant-voltage mode. When voltage-depression hits a cell, its voltage cannot reach 1.9V during charging, so the NiZn charger will simply fry the cell!
[Update Jan 31, 2011]
I recently discovered two other problems with the PowerGenix '1-hour' charger.
1. If a NiZn cell has been severely over-discharged and its voltage drops below 0.5V, the charger may not be able to detect its presence. If you insert this 'dead' cell together with three other good cells, the charger will not give you any warning signal (red LED flashing). But by the time the charger finished charging (green LED on), this dead cell is still empty. In this case, you need to use a 'dumb' NiMH charger to charge the dead cell for a few minutes, so that it can be recognized by the PowerGenix charger again.
2. If you store a set of fully charged batteries in this unplugged charger, each cell will be draining a current about 5.7mA into the charger. That means after about 10 days, all cells will be completely drained! With most other NiMH chargers I have tested, the leakage current is only 0.05-0.5mA, so you can store cells in them for several months without too much loss.
Terry Soloman
New member
TABMAN!!!! 
Great information! I have to say that so far, at only 55-hours, I could not be happier with these PowerGenix Nickel-Zinc AA batteries. I have used them and used them, one stretch was 19-hours! After buying my share of $500 Minelab batteries, this is a pleasure!
Great information! I have to say that so far, at only 55-hours, I could not be happier with these PowerGenix Nickel-Zinc AA batteries. I have used them and used them, one stretch was 19-hours! After buying my share of $500 Minelab batteries, this is a pleasure!BarberBill
New member
I haven't noticed a decline in performance due to low batteries, but I admit I don't generally try to use them till they die. I don't use rechargeables in my detectors because it's not often that I can put in enough hours to really gain the advantage over alkalines. That said, if battery life becomes a problem for me, it means I've been able to detect a lot so that's good.
BB
BB
I noticed detecting old home sites I run batteries out pretty fast. When detecting through real trash sites I want my Tejon running good. I change them out 4 to 5 beeps. I don't want to miss anything in the ground. Going to a once in a life time site NEW BATTERIES!! Digging false signals is no fun. Digging Club hunts or competitions new batteries no matter what! I probably throw good batteries away but I don't want to miss anything.
BarberBill
New member
You may be throwing out some usable batteries, but in a typical season how many is this? If not that many, why worry. Better to be confident in your detector.
BB
BB
Terry Soloman
New member
targets said:
Do you folks check your batts with a tester after 7-10 hours? That may also help you to determine when they have dropped below your safty threshold, so you don't toss them prematurely..
dixiedigger57
Member
allright guys, you've done your research and field tests aplenty, my units are the older tesoros. big box eldorado and amigoII. my guru warned me on the regular batteries, some brands discharge a little different. CAN I USE THE RECHARGABLES SAFELY IN MY OLDER UNITS? batts aint cheap. I found some off brand rechargeables for my little work camera, and old sony cybershot 4.1 megapixel owned by fred flintstone, which eats them up quickly. they did not last and wont hold a charge anymore. it was screwing up my camera. dont want to damage my unit. GaryF terry tabman barberbill... i trust you guys based on what i read and the posts you make. shoud I or not go to recharge in the older units?
Terry Soloman
New member
Feel the force DD57! Yes is the answer. Today's rechargables are SAFE and reliable for your older machines.