Lifetime warranty???????

[jmaryt]

if you liken my level of intelligence to a light bulb,then no i have never been very bright!..if you have doubts about that statement,then kindly make inquiry of my wife!
she will verify it!.as to the issue at hand,yes! i am aware of the "different" electrical signatures of various components on a circuit board,and yes!..this very well could be the answer!..so!..that being said,apparently the ONLY way to know for absolute certain if a cz-3d is operating properly is to have the "design engineer" "scope" it out to original operating "parameters"

(h.h!)
j.t.

 

[Fisher Customer Service]

Oh my! I wasn't comparing you to a light bulb at all. Simply a simple example.

You shouldn't have to have an engineer scope it out. You can also talk to one of our technicians and get some feedback on what is considered operating "properly" or not. When testing the units, all I know is they go by specific specs in their test and tuning manuals.

 

[Digger]

Kind of reminds me of the old Wendy's (spoof) commercial for chicken, with the phrase "parts is parts". If you don't remember it, you can find the youtube video using a google search. The point is, all parts are not created equal. Not with chicken and not with electronic components. Electronic components will vary in composition based on materials used, the process used to manufacture them and the inherit tolerance level of each component. Precision components use higher quality materials go through more refined manufacturing process and will typically cost more. The example about one light bulb not being as bright as another is an example of varying resistance and or product quality. I know we can't compare a 50 cent light bulb to a $500 metal detector. But whether it be light bulbs in our homes, or resistors used in electronic equipment, values simply vary. Some variance is controllable and some is not. Take for example the simple resistor. Each one has different colored bands representing the value of resistance (in ohms) as well as the percentage of tolerance allowed in that specific resistor. You know the tolerance you are willing to accept when you purchase the resistor. And, you will likely pay more for a 27K ohm resistor (27,000 ohms) with a brown band (1% tolerance measured value = 26,730 - 27270 ohms) than you would pay for the same value of resistor with a silver band (10% tolerance measured value = 24,300 - 29,700 ohms). They are both 27K resistors. But the difference in variance, provided by their "acceptable tolerance" levels, is substantial. Especially if you are using that resistor in series with other components that each have their own "tolerance" levels. When you consider the number of electronic components used in a metal detector and you can see why the performance of two detectors of the same make and model might vary. Even if every component had a 1% tolerance, and each component was operating as designed, I doubt you will find two that are exactly alike in all regards. Add material costs and profit margins to the mix and you get an idea of the "balancing act" a manufacturer must perform to be produce a quality product and still remain competitive in the marketplace. JMHO HH Randy

 

[Mike Scott]

The detectors are tested and tuned to make sure they will do certain things at a certain sensitivity level before they pass.

As an example if it is supposed to get 5 inches at a certain setting on a certain target and it gets 5.5 inches it is not rejected as defective-you just need to bump the sensitivity up a little to get the 5.5....
If it only gets 4 it needs to be tuned by the tech to get at least the 5 if that's the guidline is set at.

Mike

 

[jmaryt]

very true!.however the unit STILL has be tuned properly to the original operating parameters!..in other words,the detector needs to be tuned properly to dankowski's specs BEFORE IT leaves the factory!..if it is not tuned properly to THOSE component specs,then it will NOT perform as designed!,as mentioned by the man himself!

(h.h!)
j.t..

 

[jmaryt]

tom indicates that it is operating properly if it registers certain coins as a high tone!..for further input i suggest you speak with him!

regards!
(h.h!)
j.t.

 

[jmaryt]

i know that bobbie!..just a poor joke on my part!.yes i am sure that is true!..see another post here!..thanks!

(h.h!)
j.t.

 

[Dan-Pa.]

Dial in buying from several different companies including those overseas we are or should be aware variances in tolerances do occur in the components that make up a detector. Down and dirty add operators expertise and of course the ground in our neck of the woods and we can see why there are so called hotter and colder units. Certainly no electrical expertise but even something as simple as a poor solder joint versus an excellent one and a detector contains many all add to the equasion. Point in question if you and a buddy have two identical models set up the same way I would bet they would ground balance a hair different and one might be a 1/2 inch or so better in depth.
Metal detecting companies have tolerances they set their units give or take and for gosh sakes if you feel your unit is not working like it used to send it in and let the experts test it out..

 

[jmaryt]

apparently my meaning was misconstrued!..everything that was mentioned about varying component values and build issues,i agree with.what i am specificaly referring to is the "state" of tune of the cz-3d when it leaves the factory.dankowski has stated the the detector has to accept "certain" coins as a "high tone" in order to be " tuned" properly as set forth by the operating parameters he designed into the detector when it was released to production.apparently "some" if not more than some units have had to be retuned to "work" as they were designed to work!.

(h.h!)
j.t.

 

[Fisher Customer Service]

Wow. Explained for more in depth than I could provide. Brava!

I understand where you're coming from now, j.t. Yes, the units should meet the parameters before leaving the factory. So the same tuning procedure is used on the units, but unfortunately, not all are the cream of the crop.

 

[jmaryt]

understood,but ask yourself!..do you think that me or anyone wants to get a unit that doesn't perform the way it was designed?..if you force people to send the detector to someone to tweek it electronically so it will perform as designed,that could be detremental to business!..just a thought!


regards!
(h.h!)
j.t.

 

[tony (Orlando FL)]

Bobbie,

By mentioning "but unfortunately, not all are the cream of the crop." this tells me you AND others at Fisher know that some units are leaving the factory that arent 100% as good as they can be.

Each unit leaving Fisher should inspected and tuned to the max as if it were to be presented to the engineers of the detector or the owners of the company, better yet, the actual customers, US.

Isnt there a 'REJECT' lever or mechanism in place that someone can throw to be sure that this NON "cream of the crop" unit doesnt find its way into our hands? The buyers dont hand the dealers less than perfect money to purchase one of these units. It seems to be a gamble on the buyers part if each and every unit doesnt leave the factory after being final tested and certified to be the best possible.

How hard could it be to assure the unit is perfect before leaving? If its not the best it can be, perhaps hand it off to a super tech there and have him trouble shoot the unit till its perfect before releasing it. After doing enough of these rejects, he may spot a trend in production that is responsible for the poor performing units coming his way and then be able to resolve it. This way the customer gets the best performing unit possible and Fisher achieves recognition for selling the finest products.

Tony

 

[jmaryt]

i didn't want to push it that far tony,however you echo my sentiments exactly!.it HAS to be right BEFORE it hits the door,as fisher certainly ISN'T giving 'em away!
from fisher's perspective,WHY would they want to get 'em back to spend resources and time to make 'em right?

(h.h!)
j.t.

 

[tony (Orlando FL)]

because man designed it and assembled it, it can and should be able to meet the specs of a very fine detector that goes out the door of the manufacturer , not just one that is marginally good. Like you indicated, WHY get em back, JUSTdo it right the first time. Re-work is very costly.

Many yrs ago, I bought a different brand unit that was of course claimed to be the 'next best thing' ever. I bought it new and the max depth in the air and ground was 3 inches. It only had two knobs on it, I couldnt have been that far off in my settings. I sent it back, hoping/expecting it to come back every bit as powerful as advertised. When I got it back, there was a note in the box that said to the effect 'this unit meets our minimum sensitivity requirements and has been returned to you as is' !! Fortunately, I was able to get my money back from the dealer after showing him the response and comparing it to his other units.

Maybe if workers were held accountable? Maybe if there was something they had to sign indicating that THEY did the final inspection? Maybe if ALL the workers were detectorists, they would understand more about why they need to do a good job.

The finest company can have the most brainy people on staff designing the best there is, yet, if the final test and tweaking isnt conscientiously understood and performed on a consistent basis, it WILL catch up with the company. Bottom line, EVERYONE loses.

 

[jmaryt]

excellent point!..

(h.h!)
j.t.

 

[khouse]

I read and understand the warranty. I believe there might be some confusion where it says the $25.00 is for handling and service. I believe the word "service" should be omitted. This is just my opinion.

 

[Canewrap]

This mass production, max profit mentality is why I'll never buy another Fisher as long as its being run the way it is. I went through two F75s and neither one was any good. Any machine that has such an extreme EMI problem is not a good machine and is using the cheapest shielding available, not acceptable. I work with some of the smartest people in world at NASA and when I described the problem to them it was clear that it could have been easily fixed, so I decided that I didn't need the depth this machine offers when a design flaw is going to limit where I can take it. I don't buy the idea that you just have to get used to the noise and eventually you'll get in tune with the machine. Also, I don't buy that you'll lose the depth and seperation that this machine offers if you shield the processor box better. Afterall, the signal is coming in from the coil, not the box

 

[Mr.Bill]

Excuse me, I would like to jump in here, ask a few questions, and perhaps add a little information.

I thought the whole idea of being in business was to make profit. Hmm, you must have made a mistake here, right ?

Your saying you have been through 2, F-75

 

[Canewrap]

Excuse me, I would like to jump in here, ask a few questions, and perhaps add a little information.

I thought the whole idea of being in business was to make profit. Hmm, you must have made a mistake here, right ?

A: No, being in business to make a profit is what its all about, but at not the cost of quality it shouldn't.

Your saying you have been through 2, F-75

 

[Mr.Bill]

"A: No assumptions here, I took both machines out relic hunting at a couple of established sites and I couldn't hunt, except in all metal because of the amount of EMI. It was scrolling through numbers like a slot machine."

I can tell by your answer I seriously doubt it was electrical interference. If you had it in discriminate mode, it most certainly would have been noticed in all metal mode.


"A: Do you call graphite shielding adequate? I'm sorry, I have a low tolerance for a machine that I cannot take everywhere I want to. I didn't pay $1K for a machine that's this fluky. I can understand you're offended by what I've said, but the truth about my experiences is not isolated, I've read the same complaints elsewhere. I couldn't have my experts fix the problem because it would invalidate the warranty. I'm familiar with what the shielding is because a friend of mine decided he didn't want to have to keep sending his back so he cracked the case, even though it invalidated his warranty. I just don't have that kind of money to throw away. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm happy for those people who got a good unit right off the bat and are not having EMI issues. Just how am I supposed to set the machine to tame the EMI, without losing this legendary depth that I bought the thing for in the first place? Speaking of depth, how was I supposed to tell if I was getting that depth, the depth indication was never consistent either, and was off as much as two to three inches either way? I have a few deeply buried targets that I tested it on and the only way to get that depth was in the JE mode and coincidentally it is also the mode most susceptible to EMI."

Graphite shielding is a very acceptable way to do it. It's been used for years by everyone in this business.

"A: Are you familiar with Tom Dankowski and his forum? He's the one that suggested better shielding might diminish the machine's hot performance."

Something is being repeated out of context here, that's for sure. I know Tom quite well. When I'm in Florida, we try to have lunch together.


"A: Ok, so maybe you're willing to listen to the carnival noise in your headphones when trying to hunt, I'm not and don't think I should have to. I had to pay out of my own pocket to return the second unit and it was wasting valuable time working with these units, just to find out that they are so sensitive to EMI performance. I bought it because I thought it would give me an edge on depth with the Civil War sites I detect. AND, I do not buy the excuse that I had to become an EXPERT to use this machine. There was a problem with both machines right out of the box, that came to light as soon as I took them into certain areas. I tried everything, playing with the threshold, adjusting the frequency, checking connections. I used to work for Computer Helpdesk and walked people through troubleshooting their machines, every day. So, I think I know a thing or two about troubleshooting. I had high hopes for this machine, so believe me I didn't give up easily on it."

I'm not doubting you may have had problem with your detector, I'm doubting it's what you said it is, and it affects only the F-75. I can tell by what your explaining something was out of whack here. It goes back to what I original said. I'm sorry, but I don't feel offended that you don't like the F-75. That part I could care less. I do get tired of those complaining about a problem that for the most part is caused from not being operated correctly.

"A: What you say is very true, however I don't expect to have to keep field testing multiple machines until I find a good one. That's what Fisher's Quality Control is supposed to do, right?"

Now this statement I do believe I am in agreement with you.