Kettle Points/Tinklers or Old House Flashing ???

[Jelly936]

Posted in another forum and got crickets for responses. It amazes me how a person can find a wheat penny or a merc in a tot lot and it garners multiple comments and a multitude of inputs but when you post potential relics with actual intentions of learning and getting valuable opinions on them everyone disappears??? Rant over! Lol

I have spent some time researching these and have formed an opinion but I trust the knowledge of all of you on here to help out! Are these trimmings from an old homes flashing or are they Native American worked points from the kettle point era?

Found near a homesite that easily dates to the 1850s in Iowa.

Also any input on the ring shaped piece or the what I believe is a canteen topper would be appreciated. The ring like piece seems like lead but is lighter than you’d think it should be for lead. Topper still has cork in it.

Any input or information will be very appreciated!

 

[fwcrawford]

Can’t help you on those two mystery items, but other items you mentioned like pieces of flashing to me.
I recognize some other pieces there…
The piece to the left with a hole at the top and what appears to be remnants of holes at the bottom where it broke looks like a bracket for a handle… like in a bucket or pail.
I like the bell!… is it complete?

 

[Jelly936]

Can’t help you on those two mystery items, but other items you mentioned like pieces of flashing to me.
I recognize some other pieces there…
The piece to the left with a hole at the top and what appears to be remnants of holes at the bottom where it broke looks like a bracket for a handle… like in a bucket or pail.
I like the bell!… is it complete?

Thank you for your input and response!

Have you ever looked very far into the fur trade era or kettle culture stuff with the Native Americans? Very interesting stuff. I’m still on the fence on the brass pieces but they definitely resemble Kaskaskian points, Tinklers, and Kettle points from that era.

The bell was unfortunately broken on the backside but I did find a couple more pieces of it! I’m hoping to find the rest of it and mend it back together.

 

[Coin Rescue Inc]

The round tubes remind me of Ferrules for Gutter Spikes - Sort of s pacer the nail goes thru to keep the gutter straight
Not sure how far that technology goes back. If copper maybe the gutters were copper at one time and scrapped for cash.
Gutters were all Galvanized Steel not too long ago and now Alum.

 

[Jelly936]

The round tubes remind me of Ferrules for Gutter Spikes - Sort of s pacer the nail goes thru to keep the gutter straight
Not sure how far that technology goes back. If copper maybe the gutters were copper at one time and scrapped for cash.
Gutters were all Galvanized Steel not too long ago and now Alum.

Thank you for your response!

I work in the construction field and am apprised of the gutter ferrules. I agree they do have that appearance but these pieces I have found are much too small to be used for anything of that nature.

 

[Jelly936]

I spoke to and forwarded pictures of these onto a person that could be called an expert in Native American/ancient archeology and he confirmed that these are worked pieces, both points and Tinklers, mostly likely from the Ioway tribes that resided here until the 1840s or so but could date as far back as the 17th century. He has seen them before but never here in my area.
We will be investigating these further and I will post updates!

 

[CT Todd]

Although the expert says yes I really don't think so. I think it's a bit of a stretch. I have found a few kettle points no Tinklers and seen many found. I think you have some flashing scrap. Yes it's been worked. By the guy doing the roof. Still a lot of fun to find.
Get out there.

 

[Jelly936]

Thanks for responding CT Todd! I respect your view and appreciate the opportunity to debate these.

I agree that they do resemble cut flashing no doubt. I have found plenty of that and occasionally you do find pieces that are of interesting shape. I’ve thrown many in the scrap pile.
However, on these I do see too many similarities to known pieces of artifacts to be coincidental. If it were a piece or two only then I would agree but there are multiple pieces that align with the research.
The triangular pieces could be seen as whatever the mind wants them to be, and is a possibility, however the conical rolled pieces are not made by coincidence. They required working. Scrap flashing doesn’t get cut and then rolled in this manner. So to me that then lends credibility to the triangular pieces being what they seem to be in comparison to the aforementioned known specimens.
Here are a couple more pictures of the conical pieces.

 

[Jelly936]

Here are a couple of links to other finds and some photos. I understand these are from other detectorists however there is a lot of information out there from historian/archeological roots.

Mid 1600's Native American Kettle Points Found With Equinox

Hi Folks I had a great hunt at the beginning of September with the Equinox. At this site I discovered a nice handful of Native American Kettle Points, Jesuit missionary rings and a tinkler cone or two along with some later 1700's artifacts. One of the rings was an L Heart ring which was worn by t...

www.detectorprospector.com

Metallic - Peach State Archaeological Society

KASKASKIA Name: One of the most common materials traded to the Native Americans during the Colonial period and early European contact was kettle brass, from which the Creek, Cherokee, and […]

peachstatearchaeologicalsociety.org

Update On Archaeological Digs

I've been meaning to post this for a while . After seeing the great finds GKman found on the Equinox forum, it reminded me to post this. Here is a shot of most of the brass Native American kettle points we found from an ongoing project. These points were found by 4 other hunters and myself. I get...

www.detectorprospector.com