It is showing the coin but I only hear the iron

[JimmyCT]

I have read some of the posts here on findmall, but I wanted to see this detector (CTX3030) in action....So much can be absorbed (at least for me anyways) by reading. I needed to see this machine in action and all its capabilities. Sure enough, I finally ran across this informational video and found information that I was looking for: An Iron object on top of a coin with a tree branch in between.( this is what the guy in the video requested) and was not prepared for the results.....

You can watch the whole video or you can pick it up around the 9:21 minute / second mark to see the test ( it made me a believer) using this new machine. As the gentlemen were talking the statement came out, " it's (the screen) showing the coin but we are only hearing the iron" Then the one gentlemen made the comment that the "heat screen is showing them seperate". it was very interesting to note that even though there was no evidence of coin by audio It clearly showed there was a coin (below) on the screen. I was "blown away" that the audio never gave a hint that the coin was there but that screen told a much different story. I am truly mpressed with the technology Minelab has come out with. I can see now how this can truly open up old 'hunted out" areas.


I have learned many, many things on this forum and a big "THANK YOU" is in order for all those that make it possible (owner(s), admin, moderator(s) and sponsors) in providing the Findmall platform and allowing open discussion with fellow detectorists. HH - Jim aka EPL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lb4S-LdmpDs&feature=player_detailpage

 

[Gemini13]

You my friend have discovered the hype is real! LOL

In truth I believe this is what their intentions were. Find stuff that your previous machine (E-Trac included) was telling you was trash.

 

[JimmyCT]

Hi Gemini
It surely is real lol. It is true: Minelab has set new standards - where "seeing" is just as important as "hearing" your target. Where audio can only give so much information to the user, this "seeing" into the ground may show a clearer picture to what the audio isn't telling us. I feel this is a super advancement tool in metal detector technology. - Jim

 

[GunnarMN]

I would like to see what happens when the nail is 3" to 5" obove the coin will it still do that its in very close proximity to the coin still, if it could do that at 4 to 5" i would be impressed, i see people put nails on the same level with coins in a hole that is an easy test but i never see them put a nails 3 to 5" obove and thats because it will still mask, pleas i need another test ..

 

[sugar]

all these questions have to be answered and you know as well as i do that when you guys get hold of this machine it will be put through its paces THAT IS WHAT IS SO EXCITING the guys on here have enough knowledge to get this detector to talk to us albeit in its language but who cares as long as we can dig those undetected keepers
Randy has posted stuff up on here that having read it several times i am not yet able to understand it what do they say ROME WASNT BUILT IN A DAY so yes it will take time but we are all watching this NEW ERA of metal detectors unfold where we will be able to see before we dig

there are going to be several tasks for me my coin garden . a buried cache of coins and iron surrounding a good target buried oh i just dont know how i am going to sleep

 

[stasys]

Very nice to hear CTX sounds in TTF?, but this is what experienced detectorist call bouncing targets, usually with targets half masked in Iron. With all FBS like old Explorer and Etrac its the same just no visual target separation on the screen, this CTX option is useful in special spots, but time consuming and be ready to dig allot Iron too, like with all FBS.

 

[earthmansurfer]

I would like to see what happens when the nail is 3" to 5" obove the coin will it still do that its in very close proximity to the coin still, if it could do that at 4 to 5" i would be impressed, i see people put nails on the same level with coins in a hole that is an easy test but i never see them put a nails 3 to 5" obove and thats because it will still mask, pleas i need another test ..

I think for a VLF detector that is impossible (directly above) - at least I have read it by people very familiar with the technology. I can get a very fast detector to signal and ID a coin 1" under a nail. I haven't tried it any more than that but should.

Now, maybe Minlelab has tweaked their FBS to FBS2 VLF time domain tech so much that they are going in that direction, but being that it only gets harder when you increase the distance between the two (when the nail is on top) - the signal will just get worse and in this case, withe the nail 1" above, all we are getting is a visual signal, no audio.

Albert

 

[etracjoe]

But if you read Gary's comment under the video he states that the video is only the beginning.......he hasn't even changed the tone or set it up so that you could hear the audio of the coin!! That is just one more awesome feature of the CTX. This is something I wish I had on the Etrac.

 

[John(Tx)]

Will it do the same thing with the iron and coin in the ground where the iron has saturated the ground? Does look good.

 

[earthmansurfer]

Will it do the same thing with the iron and coin in the ground where the iron has saturated the ground? Does look good.

If it is anything like the E-Trac, and it is, it should do much much better in the ground, with targets being there for years. The E-Trac doesn't do great in above ground tests with unmasking and recovery speed, but the results in the ground are very clear in moderate+ iron. Now, I think with the smaller coil, the CTX might do quite a bit in heavy iron. Look forward to those tests.

You can get a fast detector to get both audio and VID on a nail 1" above a coin though. I am getting a CTX, so this is not meant as a comparison per say. This is my site machine:

Nail 1" above coin test

 

[Critterhunter]

First, according to everything I've EVER read on the physics of coil detection fields it is impossible to see a target directly under another at any kind of even small distance. The field eddy currents warp around and react with the first piece of metal they come in contact with and have no real ability to see anything further than that. That's one of those laws of nature things that just can't be changed with how much electronics you throw in the box. It's like trying to get a beam of light from a flashlight to go around corners. Just doesn't work in the real world of natural physical laws. I even read tests where something like a staple will block the entire detection field from seeing a coin that is just a little bit deeper than it. It's like hitting a brick wall with your head. You can't walk through it. No amount of technology can change that. It has nothing to do with how far advanced electronics are. It has everything to do with the physical natural static laws of how magnetic detection fields react with metal.

Second, I've owned several machines that were excellent in all respects such as separation except for one big problem...No tone alert. Problem was that you had to constantly keep your eye on the VDI in order to tell what you just passed over. That might not sound like a big deal but try doing it for 30 minutes while hunting in heavy trash. The only thing I've ever cared about in finding targets in heavy trash, besides a good DD coil with a sharp detection line (more important to me than even the fast detectors I've owned), was hearing any high tones among the lows. Never used any discrimination when doing that, and didn't care about what my VDI had to say. I only walked and listened and only looked at the screen when I heard what I wanted to hear and wiggled over that one spot. It's much easier to hear a high tone among lows than watching a screen all the time. I sold several machines because of that very reason. So I want a clear answer on this...are you telling me that you won't hear a high tone on a potentially good target and must watch the screen to see what else I might have just passed over in relation to what else is around the coil? If the target that gives any tone must be the one in the center of the coil then in effect we've gained nothing here.

 

[JimmyCT]

Critter,
did you watch the video? There was a coin on the sheet, then a stick / branch then a piece of iron on top. In the video, the only indication that the coin was there was through the screen or as the gentlemen described it, "the heat screen is showing them seperate" In other words, it does show all the object(s) present under the coil even when there is no audio representing them. (At least this is how I understand it) The coin (being masked by the iron) is lost in audio and technically does not exist to the human ear as we can't hear the coin tone. (All that these guys heard was a low tone indicating iron) However, the screen was showing those gentlemen that there WAS something else sitting in the iron. So to answer your question below (and from what I have observed ) yes, it seems as if one would have to watch the screen to see what else the hunter may have passed over. It seems to me as long as the coil passes over the target(s), they will show up on the screen whether they are represented by audio or not. (correct me if I am wrong here) The only way we are going to learn more about this detector is to wait for more videos to come out. Hang in there critter. As time goes on, we will have more of our questions answered. HH - Jim

So I want a clear answer on this...are you telling me that you won't hear a high tone on a potentially good target and must watch the screen to see what else I might have just passed over in relation to what else is around the coil? If the target that gives any tone must be the one in the center of the coil then in effect we've gained nothing here.

 

[Barry NY]

Who is going to detect and look at the screen every time they get a low tone for iron?

That will get tired pretty fast - they must have another setting that can get a tone ID if there is a visual ID.
Without tone ID - it's insane to think anyone would contantly be watching the screen..

I really believe they are way too smart to leave it this way...

 

[Dr.Deus]

Swinging through iron watching my screen waiting for that red target dot to pop up in the upper right hand corner doesn't seem like too bad of an idea. what if by doing that you could pull up 6 good targets as apposed to finding a possible 1 good target in all the iron while waiting for that one good tone to pop up. Hmm. Seems to make some sense to me.

 

[Digger]

I think we'd agree that rejection doesn't really reject the target. It is still detected. We just don't hear an audio response for it. What it does provide is a null or "lack of tone" on targets whose properties have been set to reject. And I think we would also agree that targets whose values have been set to accept will provide an audio response. In the screen shots, it appears to me that the search mode they are using has little or no discrimination. As such, the iron target will provide an audio response because it is an accepted target. I would think if they had been running with enough discrimination that the iron was "rejected" the audio response for it would have been silenced and the audio response for the coin might have been heard. Just a suggestion for those willing to listen. JMHO HH Randy

 

[CDDZ]

I think we'd agree that rejection doesn't really reject the target. It is still detected. We just don't hear an audio response for it. What it does provide is a null or "lack of tone" on targets whose properties have been set to reject. And I think we would also agree that targets whose values have been set to accept will provide an audio response. In the screen shots, it appears to me that the search mode they are using has little or no discrimination. As such, the iron target will provide an audio response because it is an accepted target. I would think if they had been running with enough discrimination that the iron was "rejected" the audio response for it would have been silenced and the audio response for the coin might have been heard. Just a suggestion for those willing to listen. JMHO HH Randy

This is exaclty what I was thinking. I have been making patterns in exchange2 and keep going around and around debating how much disc I want to use.... I suppose we could knock out nails and leave the rest open for better "audio" sepparatiion

 

[Digger]

For several years, I've been using minimal discrimination on all my detectors. I was of the mindset that the more I heard, the better my odds of making good finds. But I have to say, the additional functionality of this detector has put that theory to bed for me. When you can implement Ferrous - Coin separation, Combined Tone profile and get heat trails on Detect and Pinpoint, I've been using more discrimination than I've had turned on in years. HH Randy

 

[stasys]

Critter,
did you watch the video? There was a coin on the sheet, then a stick / branch then a piece of iron on top. In the video, the only indication that the coin was there was through the screen or as the gentlemen described it, "the heat screen is showing them seperate" In other words, it does show all the object(s) present under the coil even when there is no audio representing them. (At least this is how I understand it) The coin (being masked by the iron) is lost in audio and technically does not exist to the human ear as we can't hear the coin tone. (All that these guys heard was a low tone indicating iron) However, the screen was showing those gentlemen that there WAS something else sitting in the iron. So to answer your question below (and from what I have observed ) yes, it seems as if one would have to watch the screen to see what else the hunter may have passed over. It seems to me as long as the coil passes over the target(s), they will show up on the screen whether they are represented by audio or not. (correct me if I am wrong here) The only way we are going to learn more about this detector is to wait for more videos to come out. Hang in there critter. As time goes on, we will have more of our questions answered. HH - Jim

So I want a clear answer on this...are you telling me that you won't hear a high tone on a potentially good target and must watch the screen to see what else I might have just passed over in relation to what else is around the coil? If the target that gives any tone must be the one in the center of the coil then in effect we've gained nothing here.

What I saw in Video coin was a bit a side, not directly under nail. What I see CTX is based on Etrac or very very similar to Etrac, sounds the same and behaves the same, I think it was used in basic program, the same trick possible to do with Etrac and Explorer, try it.

 

[sugar]

i am not technical but as i see it you are right in that the law of physics makes it so a good target hidden under iron is masked and so will not give an audible sound but of course you will still pick up audibly all the other targets as other detectors will
now as you hear the iron grunt you either have to ignore it or investigate it which you can do with the screen this is the new technology
if you dont think that is interesting then not alot of point getting this machine because that is the advanced technology you are paying for and for me this is what i am excited about HAPPY HUNTING ao all of you

 

[stasys]

CTX is very interesting just I am curious and guessing what Minelab changed compare to other FBS.