Iron mask seems to make a difference

[Rick(ND)]

Hi Jim,

I am glad you do well with your E-Trac and I too love mine, but have a lot to learn yet with it. I liked my X-8 coil for me mostly and tried several others like the 6X8 SEF and the 15X12 and the 6 inch Excellerator coil which I have for sale as I will keep the 6X8 as it works better for me. I sold my 15X12 and may get another one as it was a decent coil for a big one. I had a sale for my X-8 and sold it too, but do want another one of them. My stock Pro coil is good too, but seem to like the smaller ones for my hunting at this time.
Now on the Sovereign i have alot of hours in this detector and seen a lot of nice finds others missed and couldn't see and feel why is because I feel I know the Sovereign good and the more I use it the deeper my finds get and the less trash i will dig.
My hunting with the Sovereign is in old parks, ball Fields, old fairground that have been gone for years and some schools and even a few older churches and known to do some Private yards too. Some of these areas like the old park I been detecting since 1973 like others and still do when I get a chance and know there is a lot of old rusty bottle caps and a lot of rusty nails. That one area is solid nulls around the old grand stand, but the Sovereign is one of the only detectors that did good for me around it as it is nails and pieces of pull tabs all over. One tree around 3 foot around took me around a hour to go around it as I had to go so slow to hear every little squeak of a good tone, but found a few nice coins that were deep or with some nails. After a while using a Sovereign you get to know all trash signals so it is almost like you don't hear anything, but any other tones will stop you dead to check out further and this is where if deep you dig, if not you decide if worth digging by the size of it. I hunt with a couple of guys I sold a Explorer XS and a SE Pro too and we have seen some nice coins i dug with the Sovereign and knew they were good while they said it was trash or said it just nulled for them. One got a E-Trac last year and his finds went way up and he was digging deeper too ( I started him with a Sovereign in 1998 and he even had a write up in there Information booklet back in 199 He also loves his E-Trac and glad he traded.
Many people i feel don't take the time to understand the Sovereign and sell them off and some of these also buy a Explorer or E-Trac and don't spend the time to know them and those that do love them, those that don't spend the time sell them off and tell everyone how bad they were and don't realize it was the user that was bad not the detector.
I like my Sovereign and like my E-Trac and feel it maybe the only detector that could replace my Sovereign as my best detector. i also like the Troy X5, the Tesoro Tejon and the Fisher F75 SE (never thought i would like a Fisher as they are iron magnet, but not the F-75) Now I want to try a Garrett AT as i hear so much good about them, but i know it probably never replace a Minelab, but could complement one.

 

[synthnut]

Hi Rick,
I STILL like the Sovereign .....and I'm sure that I have not spent nearly as much tme on one as you have , but there have been enough times when using the E Trac , that I could CLEARLY see that it was a better machine for me .....Time is important .....Conditions are not always the same , and when the conditions are just right , like not long after a good rain, you want the optimum machine for the job especially when time is limited .......I find that the E Trac is that machine .... I had some great finds with my Soveeigns , and can fully understand the love affair with the tones that these machines make ....You can see some of my early posts about what I call the "sexy " tone of the Sovereign .......It's far from a bad machine ....I still really like it , but have moved on to the E Trac and for all intents and purposes , I find that it really IS the evolution of the technology .... I don't have a problem saying that the Sovereign is a wonderful machine , but where I have to draw the line is when someone says that the Soveriegn does certain things BETTER than the E Trac .....It's just NOT TRUE !!.... To say , "I like the Sovereign better than I like the E Trac " would be a better comment .... I will say that I have not spent the time that you have on the Soveriegn , but I have spent ENOUGH time with the Soveriegn to know that there were too many times where I spent a LOT of time investigating a target and trying different aprroaches and different settings on the Sovereign to see if the target was worth digging .... YES there are ways of determining MOST, not all , targets with the Sovereign .....Do I want to spend that much time doing this ? ....NO !!!..... I am spending more time learning my E Trac and the amount of time I have spent with the E Trac, it has been FAR MORE rewarding .... I have learned my settings , and I have learned the machine to do what I need it to do .....Sure I get stumped from time to time , but I have a better understanding of the E Trac, and I am willing to put even more time into it because I know that I am starting off with what I consider superior technology ..... Just like the time you put into the Soverign , you will find that the more time you spend with the E Trac , the better you will like it as your experience grows ..... Settings for my area , may not be good for yours .....My settings might not be the BEST for MY AREA , but they work for me ......I HAVE the option of changing the way I hunt and how I set up my machine .....I can always experiment if I want to ..... I do understand what you are saying about ways of finding targets with the Sovereign , and I agree with you, but I haven't got the time or the patience to deal with it ....There are TOO MANY targets in the ground here in NY .....I stop when I hear the tone I am looking for , and the E Trac can already "see thru " many of the garbage signals that I have discriminated out so that I can hear the good targets .....I can 't do that with the Sovereign ...... I either have to discriminate from a certain area on down , or group a bunch of numbers together in a notch ...... I have no control over the iron area at all in dscriminminate OR All metal ......I have no read out to double check my ears ......The list goes on ......When times were such that all you had was tone , the Sovereign was and still is a great machine that I have a lot of respect for , but detectors have evolved ......

You have been one of the people on this forum who's threads I will continue to read as you have far more knowlege of the Sovereign than most on this forum .....There are a few other guys I listen to and read also having much respect for ..... I have not had as much experience as any of you, but have had ENOUGH experience to know what works for me and what doesn't .... Think about this for a minute ....If you started out wtih an E Trac , and put only 1/4 as much time into the E Trac as you have the Soveriegn , which machine do you think you would have better luck with ? .......I'm giving the Sovereign MUCH MORE time here on purpose ...... I think you know what I am saying here ......You know the Soveriegn inside and out , and you have not experimented enough wtih the E Trac to know it's capabilities yet ..... There's a lot to learn and know about the E Trac and I continue to learn it ......It does however have a basis or a starting point where I KNOW that once mastered ( if there is such a time ) it will triumph as the better machine !!...... It has been a better machine to me already and continues to amaze me ..... Out of all the machines I have bought and sold , my E Trac is not going anywhere ..... Thanks for reading ....Jim

PS ....MY AT Pro is FAST and FURIOUS .......My E Trac is DEEP and DEADLY !!.....

 

[Critterhunter]

Just a bit on what the manual says about iron mask & BBS machines...

When developing BBS technology, Minelab

 

[Rick(ND)]

What works for one person may not work for others.
This is what I say to so many that use the Explorers and the E-Tracs on patterns and settings as I never try to run one someone says is a perfect pattern as you have to learn what works the best for you and your hunting. The Sovereign is a easy one to set up though and less confusing to many. On my E-Trac I use my Troy Pros headphones as they have some great volume for my bad hearing and better than anything I have tried, but Have a new set of the Bushmaster to try, they looks like they will also have the great volume. I run my E-Trac in auto sensitivity +3 and set my quick mask at 7 conductivity, 22 ferrous as this seems to work the best for me, but may change some of this with experience. I leave both recovery's off as I run the factory setting there, but turn on the bad ground and leave the gain at factory setting too. One setting that made a real difference for me and my bad hearing is the response as the pitch hold if a life saver for me as like my Sovereign Ilike the tones to stay a little longer or the threshold letting me know it has seen something different. This could be why I like my Sovereigns as the threshold changing and staying of the last target is great. This was maybe the drawback for me with the Explorer XS and EX II as the tones changing so fast back to a normal threshold it was hard to hear them, but with the pitch hold on the SE and the E-Trac give me a advantage and why i feel the E-Trac is the only detector that could replace my Sovereigns in the future as it too is a great detector.
What was bad for me last year is I didn't have a E-Trac to use as I sold my demo in March and couldn't get one in until Nov as they were back ordered, but now I have a demo right from Minelab I have to keep for a year and cant sell, so I plan on using it as long as my body holds out along with my GT and maybe will get a AT Pro to try out and see if what some say is fact or B.S., that the only way I will know for sure.

Good Luck Jim and I too enjoy reading your post even though our opinions vary at time, but that is how we learn don't we?? No one detector is perfect and it is good it is not or what would we debate about.


Rick

 

[Neil]

Just a bit on what the manual says about iron mask & BBS machines...

When developing BBS technology, Minelab

 

[Neil]

Here's a bit more on the subject...

What I don't see mentioned nearly enough is that the target ID on the GT is much more "instant" than that of other computerized machines such as the Explorer. The Explorer lags on iron and seems a second behind the audio. On the GT if you hear it you right away also see an ID for it. In that respect the GT is much better at pulling an ID out of trash. It also has a more stabile ID at depth. Evan the Etrac gets funky with any kind of distance between the coil and coin, and I'm not talking about on fringe stuff here. Also, as said, the GT for me sounds off to a good target in iron much better then my Explorers ever did, and will average multiple targets less.

on the target ID Im guessing you mean the meter? tone ID is also target ID so I just wanted to clarify. If this is what your saying, then I completely agree, the Sov meter is instant and the explorer and etrac lag behing slightly. The meter on the Whites IDX is instant, would that make it better than the Explorer as well?
however on your statement on the audio, it does not lag behind and again calls into question if youve ever really used an Explorer.
And again, your making statements about the etrac when you dont hunt one, or are you hunting one now? Its a BS statement if your not hunting one however its your opinion if you are and that can change once you understand the machine.
Perhaps you can can explain why you continually try and kill the explorer and etrac, detectors youve never really understood or perhaps used? They are what they are just as the sov is.

 

[synthnut]

Rick ,
Just so you know , the AUDIO section not only has the "Response " settings that you mention helping you with your hearing , but also has the "Threshold Pitch " setting ........What the manual does not tell you is that when you adjust your Threshold Pitch , all the targets that you hit will folllow suit !!....THIS really was a nice feature for me !!.....My hearing is not the best either ......Some folks with bad hearing , can hear higher tones better ......Some folks can hear lower tones better .......The Threshold Pitch setting not only changes the Threshold pitch, but all the other tones that go along ....So for example , if you raise the Threshold Pitch higher , your high tone Silver tone wil go higher !!!.....So weill your Copper tones , so will your Gold Tones etc ....If you set your Threshold Pitch lower, the opposite will happen .....My Threshold Pitch is set higher as I can hear high tones much better than low tones .....When I hit a Silver coin with my E Trac , that flutey tone is now much higher and it's MUSIC to my ears .....Just one more thing to help me hunt .... Just like getting use to the tones that you hear now from ANY machine , it takse a little getting use to , but totally rewarding once you do ..... I can hear the nuances of a tone much better now that the pitch of the tone is higher ..... Your ears will thank you !!...... It's always good to debate wth you also .....Always enjoyable ...... It's OK to agree to disagree .....That's what keeps things interesting .....Jim

Critter ,
To the extent that the Iron Mask works on the Sovereign , I am glad that you find it such a great tool ...... I wish you all the luck with it, and I'm happy it works for you .... I had my doubts as to how good it actually worked , and really saw no significance one way or the other .....As I have said in many threads , it was nothing more to me than a noise reduction setting on the Soverign .....It's more to you ? .....So be it .....We agree to disagree ........ When you say that it's better than the E Tracs QuickMask , this is where the problem lies ..... You have little experience on an E Trac , and have mentioned in more than one thread how you're not even sure how to set it up because the manual doesn't tell you anything about how to set it up , yet you clam that the Iron Mask on the Soveregn is better than Quickmask on the E Trac !!...... How would you even know ? ...... You don't know how to set up the machine that you are calling inferior .....???...... Rather than making blanket statments about a machine you know very little about , just say that "The E Trac is a very involved machine , and it is quite overwhelming , and rather than going thru all the parameters to achieve what I would like to do , I find my Sovereign easier to use , and therefore , i will stay with my Soveieign " Just because you don't understad a machine and you have a machine that you DO understand , doesn't mean that the Sovereign is a better machine ......It means that the Soveriegn is a better machine for YOU !!!.... There are many things about the E Trac that YOU don't understand, that YOU don't like , that YOU can do without .....It's not the machine for YOU !!......Others WELCOME the additional features , and experimetn with them , and end up LOVING the machine !!.... I would be willing to bet that at least 80% of the people who buy an E Trac , and sell it in the first 2 months of owning it , sell it because it overwhelms them and they don't understand it , and they just put it in the closet !!...... Looking at all the settings just makes you go " WOW , What did I get myself into ? " ...... Once you learn it , and you set things up for your area , you say " That wasn't so bad at all ....What was I so freaked out about ? " .......If your comfort zone is with the Soveriegn , and you do well with it , by all means stay with the Sovereign .....

BTW ...The tones come just as fast on the E Trac as they do on the Sovereign , and while I circle my target to get repeatable tones , somewhere in that circling process , my ID number comes up .....and its accurate ....and I don't have to listen to a bunch of other crappy tones from garbage I don't want , and wonder whats what because my discrimination already had them blocked out !!.....So while your doing the Sovereign " wiggle " and the other dance that you have to do to figure out your target , my E Trac will have already given me a Ferrous and a Conductive number of the target that I'm searching for ......I have read Minelabs explaination on how Iron Mask is suppose to work over and over ......It was a great idea , and if it went a litle bit further with the discrimination , it would have turned my head ......Since it didn't , it left me flat !!.....A galant effort , and a stip in the right direction , but no cigar ..... WHen the changed the ID Ferrous line that you don't like either , and they broadened the matrix , they NAILED IT !!.... and after all these years , they FINALLY got it right , and they were so happy with it that they CHANGED THE NAME OF IT , so not to confuse it with something that was not nearly as good , to QUICKMASK !!!.....

I've got so much more to learn about the E Trac , and I look forward to it , and learn someting new at every hunt .....I wish you well with your Sovereign ......

One more thing ......You wanna see a detector handle Iron ? .....Check out an AT Pro !!..... Jim

 

[Critterhunter]

Some more quotes about Iron Mask on both the Excal and Sovereign...

What Is Minelab's Exclusive Iron Mask Feature?

The Iron Mask Feature is exclusive to Minelab detectors and makes signals from iron trash non-existent! Only signals from good targets are strong and clear, at depths that are almost beyond belief. Recognizing a valuable target that is near a piece of iron can be a problem for all conventional metal detectors. If the detector is set to reject the iron under a variety of mineralized ground conditions, then it is likely to reject the target also. For example: A coin buried near a nail will be passed over by many detectors.

And later...

In the discrimination mode the iron mask feature allows you to locate good targets among ferrous junk.

And more about iron mask on the GT