Iron mask seems to make a difference

[Brawler_7]

I read quite a bit about iron mask on GT and its benefits vs drawbacks, such as how it's more stable to run the GT with it off, and that it really doesn't have much of an affect, but I was playing with the GT today and decided to try it for myself. Held a silver dive and a large piece of iron in the same hand, tried both modes, and got to say that the GT was definitely giving a much clearer signal with the iron mask on. So might stick with that configuration from now on.
Try it for yourself and see.

 

[synthnut]

Iron Mask on the Sovereign simply opens up the Ferrous region on the detector .....It's not enough to make THAT much of a difference .....Where it DOES make a difference is in the noise that you hear in your headphones .....If you run in a highly mineralized area , and you have Iron Mask ON , it opens up the Ferrous region and you will hear more noise from the Iron in the ground since it is openning this region up a small amount ..... If you turn it OFF , it closes down the same region , and if you have minerals or iron in that region , it will quiet the machine down a bit .... It's really not all that it's cracked up to be .....In later machines , the region was REALLY openned up and there was a lot more area to deal with , and it made a much BIGGER difference , and worked much better ...... The discrimination range was much more broad and had much better control ..... If you feel more comfortable about running it ON , then that is what you shoud do ..... When I ran it , and experimented with it in the field , the only real benefit that I saw was that it acted as a noise reduction setting on my machine .... It's just not that broad of a difference to make that much of a difference .......Again , to each their own ......You're not going to realize that many gains or losses anyway ....... The direction in which you swing your coil , and the angle in whch you swing it , and the location of the the iron and your target , will have more to do with what goes on with any iron that you have to deal with in the ground ......Jim

 

[Critterhunter]

Brawler, what I've been saying all along!

I agree that iron mask ON seems to unmask good targets better as well as seems to average less in my testing. I don't believe it is some form of less iron discrimination, but rather a way to try to break apart an iron and non-iron target in processing so that it can report the good target. It also works better for me then the "iron mask" did on the Explorers. On those machines it seemed like just a quick and dirty way to alter iron discrimination rather than having special abilities to sound off on mixed targets. I have read Minelab material that also implies this better ability on the Sovereign through the way it processes the signal, and I know I have dug more coins laying with iron on my GT than any machine I ever owned. All that being said, yes...coil placement is the most critical factor. Wiggle and crawl over targets and the DD coil will impess you with it's ability.

 

[synthnut]

I don't have a Sovereign anymore to prove my point , but both of you guys might want to show a video of how well the Iron Mask works on the Soverign .....I for one would be very interested to see Iron Mask in action ...... Show me how well this feature can hadle the way a nail will no longer mask a coin by turning it on ........We've been down this road before , and there was NEVER any evidence to show how well Iron Mask on the Sovereign worked .... There was always a lot of TALK about how it worked , but never any demonstratons to show it in action ......Perhaps someone can show us now ? ...... Do something simple like a nail and a nickel ......Hold the nail in various positions going across the coil in both Iron Mask ON and Iron Mask OFF and show me how it dsciriminates Iron so well were the coin can be heard ...... I've already done this on my Excal , but I don't have Iron Mask on the Excal ......It really doesn't matter to me that I don't , because I know better .......Positioning and Direction is everything ..... Thanks, Jim

" I don't believe it is some form of less iron discrimination, but rather a way to try to break apart an iron and non-iron target in processing so that it can report the good target. It also works better for me then the "iron mask" did on the Explorers"

Critter ,

Show me this in a simple demonstraton , or anybody else show me this in a simple demonstration .....

The Ferrous line is moved on the earlier ML machines .....That's all it is .....Nothing mind boggling , and no elaborate processor !!......You're trying to make this control something elaborate that it is NOT !!.... It's not an E Trac , it's a Sovereign !!.....Tell me about the E Trac processors and I will listen , but tell me about make believe processors in the Soveriegn and I'm not buying it ...... Thanks , Jim

 

[Dertnc]

I would like to see a video as well .

 

[Neil]

I don't have a Sovereign anymore to prove my point , but both of you guys might want to show a video of how well the Iron Mask works on the Soverign .....I for one would be very interested to see Iron Mask in action ...... Show me how well this feature can hadle the way a nail will no longer mask a coin by turning it on ........We've been down this road before , and there was NEVER any evidence to show how well Iron Mask on the Sovereign worked .... There was always a lot of TALK about how it worked , but never any demonstratons to show it in action ......Perhaps someone can show us now ? ...... Do something simple like a nail and a nickel ......Hold the nail in various positions going across the coil in both Iron Mask ON and Iron Mask OFF and show me how it dsciriminates Iron so well were the coin can be heard ...... I've already done this on my Excal , but I don't have Iron Mask on the Excal ......It really doesn't matter to me that I don't , because I know better .......Positioning and Direction is everything ..... Thanks, Jim

" I don't believe it is some form of less iron discrimination, but rather a way to try to break apart an iron and non-iron target in processing so that it can report the good target. It also works better for me then the "iron mask" did on the Explorers"

Critter ,

Show me this in a simple demonstraton , or anybody else show me this in a simple demonstration .....

The Ferrous line is moved on the earlier ML machines .....That's all it is .....Nothing mind boggling , and no elaborate processor !!......You're trying to make this control something elaborate that it is NOT !!.... It's not an E Trac , it's a Sovereign !!.....Tell me about the E Trac processors and I will listen , but tell me about make believe processors in the Soveriegn and I'm not buying it ...... Thanks , Jim

Jim he cannot show you anything that minelab implies the iron mask on the sov is superior to the explorers iron mask, cannot show you its a quick and "dirty", did he actually call it dirty discrimination? on the explorer.
just more rubbish from this fellow and anyone, I mean anyone who has hunted in iron mask mode on an explorer or etrac and understood it, will say the same thing. They may say its noisy but you cant say it isnt effective and more effective than the sovs SINGLE iron mask setting.

 

[Neil]

I read quite a bit about iron mask on GT and its benefits vs drawbacks, such as how it's more stable to run the GT with it off, and that it really doesn't have much of an affect, but I was playing with the GT today and decided to try it for myself. Held a silver dive and a large piece of iron in the same hand, tried both modes, and got to say that the GT was definitely giving a much clearer signal with the iron mask on. So might stick with that configuration from now on.
Try it for yourself and see.

its really better to try it when your hunting, in air and on top of ground tests sometimes do not translate well to in ground performance. its easy enough to flip that toggle on those iffy targets or any targets really, see what it does for you.

 

[synthnut]

I've already seen how well Iron Mask worked on the Sovereign when an E Trac heard a Barber dime that was down 6 inches in the ground loud and clear and even identified it as a Barber dime with the same Ferrous and Conductive numbers that other Barber dimes that have been pulled out of the same area .... The Soveriegn could NOT EVEN HIT THIS DIME !!....NADA, NOTHING , ZILCH .....It was MASKED and the Soveriegn coud not UN mask it ...... This is not something I GUESSED at .....This was something I witnessed !!..... I would say to show me an experiment in the ground , but it takse too long for the coin to mate up wth the ground conditions to show a true experiment ... If I had not seen this situation with my own eyes , I would not have believed it ......What I saw made me sell off all of my Sovereigns !!.......I don't own a Soverieign anymore !!......Why would I sell a less expensive machine that I LOVED the sound of , to go to a machine that cost me twice as much ? ...... If you follow the older threads , you will see that I even made mention that after what I witnessed , my Sovereigns would be going up for sale ...... I probably shouldn't bother with this as it's water under the bridge at this point ..... I no longer have to deal with it anyway ........ Nothing was proven before , and nothing will EVER be proven becuse it just can't be proven ........ Jim

 

[Brawler_7]

Perhaps Jim you misunderstood me. I agree with you on most parts, like the fact that all iron mask does is drop the iron discrimination threshold (which on the Sovereigns is set very high in my opinion) to help with unmasking. I did witness a marked improvement when i did my simple test with a nail and dime in hand, and close to the coil. Prior to this I thought that iron mask had almost no affect. But I am still not convinced it will work on a deeply masked target, I did notice that the angle of the sweep made a difference. In any case, I agree that even if there is an improvement, you not going to get much out of GT when it comes to unmasking. I own a T2 SE and a Goldmaxx power, and those machines are a night and day compared to the GT in every way, I never use the GT anymore and plan to sell it and get an AT Pro. If I hunted the beach, I would keep it, but I don't, so it's of no use to me.

My test was just a quick point that Iron Mask actually worked as a concept, which I had my doubts before, but how well it worked I didn't bother commenting on because I have no idea, but suspect not too well, although better then nothing, if that makes sense.

 

[synthnut]

Brawler 7,
There is a minor chage that goes on with the Soveriegn in Iron Mask .....It's not all it's cracked up to be , and YES , you are correct .....What it does right next to the coil , it wil NOT DO when the target is further away .......There is just not enough CONTROLLABLE disctrimination on the Sovereign ..... You would have to see it to believe it , and YES you are correct too that there are MANY Single frequency machines that can handle Iron Mask MUCH better than the Sovereign can ......They can 't get into wet Salty Sand like the Soveriegn can, but they do almost everything else better ..... The AT PRo will handle most wet salt sand beaches , but there are some that you have to run your sensitivity down so low to avoid the noise that it's not worth using there ......You want to talk about Iron Discrimination , the AT Pro has this in spades .....Incredible machine now that the falsing is fixed on it for $500 to $600 !!....

Critter
.The Sovereign has an Iron Discrimination and an Iron Mask that is ON/OFF ......... Since we all know that Iron, and other targets in the ground, including mnerals , have a conductive number , and a ferrous number, please tell me where the breaking point is on the Sovereign with Iron Mask ON ..........Please tell me where the breaking point is with Iron Mask OFF ... What part of the Iron range does the Soverign discriminate ? ... What type of Iron does it discriminate ? ....... If you are hunting a site , and you are relic hunting , how do you set the Soveriegn to find iron relics , yet discrimniate out nails ? .......How do you take all relics out , when all you want to find is nails ? ..... You can cherry pick every little piece of iron on the E Trac , and you can discriminate each little piece INDIVIDUALLY if you so choose .....The discrimination scale is SO MUCH MORE elaborate , and controllable , and it's so much wider , starting with the Explorer , and broadens even more with the E Trac !!..... I can't for the life of me understand why you don't understand this ........

 

[Critterhunter]

Jim he cannot show you anything that minelab implies the iron mask on the sov is superior to the explorers iron mask, cannot show you its a quick and "dirty", did he actually call it dirty discrimination? on the explorer.
just more rubbish from this fellow and anyone, I mean anyone who has hunted in iron mask mode on an explorer or etrac and understood it, will say the same thing. They may say its noisy but you cant say it isnt effective and more effective than the sovs SINGLE iron mask setting.

Neil, you have a habit of misquoting people in order to accuse them of something they never said. I said I have read material from Minelab that seems to imply iron mask gives the machine more ability to sound off to non-ferrous targets when mixed with iron on the Sovereign, and did not say that I have read from Minelab anything about the Explorer's iron mask ability or lack there of. The lack of any unique signal processing on iron masked targets on the Explorer is my own opinion from extensive field use and testing. IMO the Sovereign gives me better ability to hear a good target in iron than on the Explorer. It's no secret that the Explorer tends to stick on and lag over iron. If you feel I am going out on a limb in saying that then read the forums. I feel iron mask ON on the Sovereign does an outstanding job at trying to report targets mixed with that iron. Your view may differ and I respect that. Why can't you disagree with people without feeling the need to bash them. No need to get nasty.

And as far as your personal attack goes...I am only offering my opinion. You, on the other hand, can't seem to stick to subject matter and offer your own opinion. Why attack people just because you have a different view? It seems 9 times out of 10 you post only to attack people rather than keep emotions out of it and respond on the subject at hand.

 

[Critterhunter]

I've already seen how well Iron Mask worked on the Sovereign when an E Trac heard a Barber dime that was down 6 inches in the ground loud and clear and even identified it as a Barber dime with the same Ferrous and Conductive numbers that other Barber dimes that have been pulled out of the same area .... The Soveriegn could NOT EVEN HIT THIS DIME !!....NADA, NOTHING , ZILCH .....It was MASKED and the Soveriegn coud not UN mask it ...... This is not something I GUESSED at .....This was something I witnessed !!..... I would say to show me an experiment in the ground , but it takse too long for the coin to mate up wth the ground conditions to show a true experiment ... If I had not seen this situation with my own eyes , I would not have believed it ......What I saw made me sell off all of my Sovereigns !!.......I don't own a Soverieign anymore !!......Why would I sell a less expensive machine that I LOVED the sound of , to go to a machine that cost me twice as much ? ...... If you follow the older threads , you will see that I even made mention that after what I witnessed , my Sovereigns would be going up for sale ...... I probably shouldn't bother with this as it's water under the bridge at this point ..... I no longer have to deal with it anyway ........ Nothing was proven before , and nothing will EVER be proven becuse it just can't be proven ........ Jim

I wager the coil was the main reason for this. The pro coil is vastly better at target seperation than a typical dd coil. I can't see things getting any better than the 12x10. Pulled a bunch of coins laying right up against even large iron with mine. Even Andy's book talks about how much better the pro coil is than prior Minelab coils in this respect. Just read about that today in it from a contributor.

 

[Critterhunter]

Jim, one other thing. The Etrac aint all that to all people. I have read Andy's book twice, the manual three times, and a bunch of online stuff. With further messing with the Etrac there are some impressive things on it, but there are also some giant drawbacks IMO. The way even exact same coins can give very different readings really turns me off for one thing. There is no clear red flag or finish line that a target ID has to cross on it. Too wishy washy at putting a label on a target. I'd be forced to hunt by tone alone on it, which is fine, but then I'd be giving up the full language of a GT for something that just reports that something is under the coil.

 

[synthnut]

OK .....That's your opinion and your sticking to it ........

I went as far as selling my Sovvereigns and use my E Trac for my land machine exclusively unless I am on the beach where I use my AT Pro on the dry and damp , and in the water I use my Excal because it performs better in the wet salt sand on certain beaches where the AT Pro does NOT want to G.B. ......
No sense beating a dead horse ....... I love the Pro Coil on the E Trac .....The 10x 12 SEF to me was similar in some respects to the Pro Coil ....Not any better , but not any woree either on the Sovereign .......I really don't think that there is as much of a difference as you think on the seperation properties of the Pro Coil as opposed to the 10" Tornado ......The Tornado is actually just as good at seperating if not better , but the E Trac is better at discrimination .......THIS is what made the difference ..... The Pro Coil is a great coil , but if they could make a Tornado for an E Trac , I'll bet it could give the Pro Coil a pretty good run for its money ....I have no reservation at all that if the Sovereign had better discrimination , that it would have allowed the Tornado coil to see that Barber dime .....It was only about 6 " down ......Not enough to make a difference in coils ......Jim

 

[Neil]

Jim he cannot show you anything that minelab implies the iron mask on the sov is superior to the explorers iron mask, cannot show you its a quick and "dirty", did he actually call it dirty discrimination? on the explorer.
just more rubbish from this fellow and anyone, I mean anyone who has hunted in iron mask mode on an explorer or etrac and understood it, will say the same thing. They may say its noisy but you cant say it isnt effective and more effective than the sovs SINGLE iron mask setting.

Neil, you have a habit of misquoting people in order to accuse them of something they never said. I said I have read material from Minelab that seems to imply iron mask gives the machine more ability to sound off to non-ferrous targets when mixed with iron on the Sovereign, and did not say that I have read from Minelab anything about the Explorer's iron mask ability or lack there of. The lack of any unique signal processing on iron masked targets on the Explorer is my own opinion from extensive field use and testing. IMO the Sovereign gives me better ability to hear a good target in iron than on the Explorer. It's no secret that the Explorer tends to stick on and lag over iron. If you feel I am going out on a limb in saying that then read the forums. I feel iron mask ON on the Sovereign does an outstanding job at trying to report targets mixed with that iron. Your view may differ and I respect that. Why can't you disagree with people without feeling the need to bash them. No need to get nasty.

And as far as your personal attack goes...I am only offering my opinion. You, on the other hand, can't seem to stick to subject matter and offer your own opinion. Why attack people just because you have a different view? It seems 9 times out of 10 you post only to attack people rather than keep emotions out of it and respond on the subject at hand.

dude you spin out of everything that is asked of you and you know it. show the minelab material you read about the iron mask on the sov, just show it and that will prove your right.
show the excal manual statement you made about it not using tracking.
your extensive field testing of the sov as you have stated before many times, seems to leave out your questioning the forum that you "hear" there is a tone break in the all metal mode. I asked you about that and you never reply, you stay away from it.
Is it really out of line for me to ask you to prove any of the statements youve made? You know your leading people on and then when you get questioned on it, its a personal attack on you? Does it even matter to you about leading people on, to believe the Sov is more than it really is? Did minelab make a mistake making the Explorer and now the Etrac their flagship detector? is that really what you think?
Youve read Andys book how many times? In his Etrac/Explorer book he clearly explains what iron mask does and is.And he has been associated with minelab for quite some time so he is someone you might want to pay attention to, since he is speaking from an actual knowledge base.

You posted above"It also works better for me then the "iron mask" did on the Explorers. On those machines it seemed like just a quick and dirty way to alter iron discrimination rather than having special abilities to sound off on mixed targets. I have read Minelab material that also implies this better ability on the Sovereign through the way it processes the signal." .........This sounds like your implying the Explorers iron mask is different and less than the Sovs but your saying Ive read this incorrectly, that you did not mean this?

See Im just saying to me you dont make sense half the time. You extensively tested the Explorer also yet you have said the Etrac is to complex for you, that you would always be wondering if you had the right settings dialed in for best performance. The Etrac is easier than the Explorer, that was one of the common comments about it when it came out, it was like a user friendly explorer. So yes I get confused because this does not make logical sense.

 

[Rick(ND)]

Not all of it. Myself I like the Tornado coil on the Sovereign and the Pro coil on the E-trac and feel Minelab did well with these 2 coils. Many people I see takes either of the Minelabs out one time and want a different coil with out learning the detector well enough to know if the stock coil will actually do better. With the Sovereign, the Explorers or the E-Trac a person should get to know the detector and understand it well before buying different coils. Some want bigger coils for depth, but find out they are harder to use while some want them to run smoother and get the small coils only to say they can get more than 4 or 5 inches down as they are looking for the perfect signals. The 10 inch Tornado coil is by far the best coil Minelab ever made as it has the depth and feels it separates like a 8 inch or smaller coil once you know your Sovereign. Ever notice that those that have used a Sovereign for many years and knows them well say that the 10 inch goes deep and separates great as they have seen it and done it.
Now on the iron mask issue i only got from Experience in the Field and know i have dug many coins next to iron with the iron mask on , but were weak and iffy sounding and felt it was a good chance to try it with the iron mask off and got nothing or just a null from the iron, so I feel it does work on the Sovereign for me anyway, Minelab also states with it on you may get a little more falsing, but off you may not see a good target next to iron. I also feel you will find most experienced Sovereign users that are doing good with deep targets found run with the iron mask on verses off, but it is nice to turn it off if the area has a lot of iron and you don't want to swing so slow to go over it and trying to get coins that are close to iron.
On the Barber dime that you missed that the E-Trac got a good signal on I have also see the other way around too where I have got some coins the Explorer missed too. The E-Trac will see them better than the Explorer in my opinion, if you have the right setting and why when serious detecting with the Sovereign I tell people to go slow and even slower so you can hear every targets and those close to iron you may be over the coin before it can give you a good signal. In most cases i get a tone that is not of a coin, but yet not of iron either so those are the ones you try to get the coil over just that one small area and try to ID it by tone and watching the meter to see if it is good or bad.
I have a guy i showed how a Sovereign worked against his detector and showed what he was missing and he was impressed so he ordered a new GT from me and complains he gets no depth so I tried it myself and seen he had the sensitivity as low as it can go and runs silent search plus disc maxed out. Told him he has to run auto or manual sensitivity higher if he wants depth plus to get the disc set lower or no disc at all to get depth many of us talk about. He said the book said to set it this way and any other way it makes too much noise. told him to reread the owners manual again. I tried it and was picking up deep coins with no problem and that was because I feel I know the Sovereigns well and learned it from years of experience with it. The Sovereign language is different, but feel once you know it these tones are music to your ears and will ID coins from trash like no other detector will, but will not unless you understand its language.
I have been using a E-Trac since they came out and love it, but don't have the hours on it to say I am great on it even though I have many on it and like the Sovereign i am still learning and getting better each time out with it, but one thing i will say is with the different adjustments you have much more to learn and what works for one person many not work for you in your areas and most patterns we see many want to copy and soon find out it don't work for them. With the Sovereigns it is very easy to use, just learn the language and change you sweep speed and listen closer in some areas for the good signals that are small if they are deep, too fast and you will not hear those deep ones.


Rick

 

[w6pea]

Good point.

 

[synthnut]

Hi Rick,
I appreciate what you are saying here ..... What I do when I hunt this particular park is that I go thru the Park and walk at a moderate pace , and swing my coil at a moderate speed ..... With ANY detector , it's the high tone that will stop me in my tracks .....This park is trashy in some spots , and not so trashy in others .....This particular area is not too bad since so much Silver has been found , that the detectorists in the area have litterally cleaned the ground of most trach unless you off the beaten path which I was on the edge of ...... This particular scenario is why I ended up selling my Sovereigns ..... I was hunting iwth my Sovereign , and my pardner was hunting with his E Trac ..... He was sweeping the park just like we always do .....Not too fast , not to slow because we know there is Silver in the area but it's generally deep .....This particlar Barber dime was NOT deep ....It was only about 6 inches down .....He called me over after he got a nice Silver signal ..... I was geting a null ....NADA , NOTHING !!.....I swept it many different directions , and I also checked it in All Metal at all different sensitivities .....I would get a reading in All Metal , but I was not hunting in All Metal because of the area ..... What I am saying to you is that this was a target that I would not have stopped for , nor , after screwing around with the Sovereign wiggle , and the procedure that one does when finding a target , I STILL did not get a Silver peep out of this area ....How do you stop for a target if you can't hear it ? ..... Why would you dig a target after playing with your machine for 15 minutes using every possible combination of settings and hitting a target in from every possible direction , and STILL not hearing a high tone ? ........ IF Iron mask was such a wonderful tool , why didn't it unmask this Silver dime for me like the E Trac did ? ... I wasn't looking for a full blown report from Iron Mask ON , but a Silver peep would have been nice !!.....and after spending more time on this one target than I EVER spent on any other target and STILL coming up empty , I think you can understand my situation ...... I can fully understand what you are saying and can fully appreciate your dedication to the Soveireign , and have for a while now ......but this target was not one that YOU would have stopped for !!..... If I stopped for every null in this park , I would never get anywhere ..... I sweep listening for high tones ...... Enter E Trac

The E Trac hit this coin like it was the only target in the park ....It was loud and clear and ID'd PEFECTLY ....... Stopped my pardner dead in his tracks !!...... I want the optimum machine to do the job that I expect it to do .....While I apprecitate the capabliities of the Sovereign and what it can do , I appreciate the capabilities of the E Trac much more ...... You can go back and forth with what the Soveriegn can do that the Explorers couldn't or compare the all day long , but when the E Trac enters the competition , it's over ..... I don't have the time to move so slowly over targets ......I will grid the park one way one day, and come back another day , and grid it the other way ...... If I hear a high tone , I'm digging !!.....

I totally agree with you that the 10 inch Tornado is a wonderful coil on the Sovereign .......I tried the 10 x 12 SEF and liked it too .... The Pro Coil on the E Trac is a match made in Detector Heaven !!....It's my favorite all tme coil ......The only other coil that I have for my E Trac is an S-5 SunRay coil for the woods .....That's it !!..... If my Excal had a Tornado coil on it , I would not be chaging it out .....I love the Tornado 10" coil , but the boat anchor BBS 1000 coil that is on my Excal 1000 is not cutting it for me .... It has to go .....

Please describe to me what the area's are like that you hunt .....Thanks , and I appreciate your reply .....Jim

 

[Critterhunter]

Here's a bit more on the subject...

What I don't see mentioned nearly enough is that the target ID on the GT is much more "instant" than that of other computerized machines such as the Explorer. The Explorer lags on iron and seems a second behind the audio. On the GT if you hear it you right away also see an ID for it. In that respect the GT is much better at pulling an ID out of trash. It also has a more stabile ID at depth. Evan the Etrac gets funky with any kind of distance between the coil and coin, and I'm not talking about on fringe stuff here. Also, as said, the GT for me sounds off to a good target in iron much better then my Explorers ever did, and will average multiple targets less.

 

[Rick(ND)]

Find what you hear is what you see on the meter which makes it one of the best ID detector out there. In realality when I used my Explorer I dug way more nails than I did with the Sovereigns. I finaly used the ferrous tone on the Explorer and it helped a bit, but still many nails and other iron. The E-Trax to me is much better than the Explorer and some feel the Explorers are better, but those are the ones that used a Explorer first and tried to use the E-Trac the same way. This is why Minelab and many of us say the E-Trac is no Explorer and can not be used that way.
Like I say the Sovereign with a good 180 meter is the best ID of any detector i have seen and used, it just dont seperate the copper from the clads or silver, but that is OK by me as a 1909 S VDB wheatie is as good or better then silver for me.