Initial Impressions Of 13" Ultimate, Size Comparison Pics With 10" Tornado & 12x10, & Actual Weight On Scale. Then In Day Or Two First Field Report. :

[Critterhunter]

[size=large]All this could change as these are very early impressions...[/size]

1) 12x10 allows higher sensitivity at same sites while remaining stable.

2) 12x10 appears deeper when sensitivity is dropped as far as possible to see which can still hit the target. Meaning, the 12x10 appears to still be able to hit a 7" dime at a lower sensitivity setting than the Ultimate can.

3) 13" Ultimate makes targets much louder. A 6 to 9" wheat sounds only 2" deep or so with it, though I can still easily hear the target well with 12x10 and I have the volume all the way down. For that reason, the less volume of the 12x10 is not an issue, as you've got the full range of turning volume up to match the loudness of the Ultimate. What I'm more curious about is if that louder "hit" at depth of the Ultimate means it's a deeper coil, even when it's running at a lower sensitivity setting to keep it stable for the given site? This is the most interesting question I intend to find out with further testing, along with it's separation abilities compared to the 12x10. Does the 12x10 hitting a 7" dime at lower sensitivity settings than the Ultimate could, along with the 12x10's ability to ride sensitivity higher, mean that the 12x10 is deeper...Or does the louder hit of the Ultimate at depth mean that it is deeper? I find this a very interesting puzzle I hope to solve with further testing.

4) Like the 12x10, the Ultimate appears to make the sound more "crisp", although the 12x10 seems more "smooth" in it's sound off. Though this might be just due to the Ultimate being louder. Turning up the volume the 12x10 might sound just as "abrupt"?

4) So far no appearance of one coil having more depth or giving easier IDs when both coils are maxed out in highest edge of stability for "riding the edge" of sensitivity to where it's just a tad unstable when hunting with both.

5) I did notice that the Ultimate feels more "bulky" when trying to work between targets, but that's just a vague impression that could just be based on it's physical size to my eye and have not testing whether it doesn't separate left/right wise as well yet.

6) The 12x10, when both coils are being run just a tad unstable, seems to "smooth" out the ride better like a car with good shocks.

7) Neither coil feels heavier than the other and weight is not an issue between them at all if you are concerned about that. Both are lighter than the 10" Tornado with it's coil cover OFF, yet with the Utlimate and the 12x10 still using a coil cover! (Refer to the weight chart I put together on actual weighed weights on page 1 of this thread) In fact, even though the Ultimate is 2.2 ounces heavier with the coil cover on versus my 12x10 not having a coil cover (as I've sprayed the bottom with spray on bed liner), I do not notice a difference in weight between them. Still yet, the Ultimate gives me the "impression" of being lighter, probably because of it's physical size to my eye that doesn't seem to match with what I'm seeing/feeling at the end of the shaft. I said it before, but this coil gives me the impression of a large white paper plate being stuck on the end of my shaft. That's how light it is compared to what your eye tells you you think it should weigh, yet the shaft doesn't convey that visual perception by feel.

 

[Critterhunter]

Ran out of time to edit/add this to the above...

Qualification Statement: Even if I do find the Ultimate is not as deep in my soil, that is not to say it won't be in yours. I found the 15x12 was not as deep as my stock 10" coil in my somewhat mild to higher mineralized land sites on coin/ring sized targets, while others say it is deeper for them. I believe that was due to it taking in too much ground matrix and washing out coin/ring sized targets at depth for me *in my soil*.

In fact, I found that to derive the best ID at depth I would often have to lower it's sensitivity well below what was max stable, because the coil (like the 12x10) often allowed very high sensitivity settings to be used, but I feel it was soaking in too much ground stew when riding the edge of sensitivity and washing out the target quality at depth when ran that high. The odd thing is my beaches are mineralized too and yet the 15x12 did go deeper than my stock 10" coil in the sand on coin/ring sized targets.

The 12x10 is deeper than stock for me, and I believe the limit for my soil is going to either be a 12 or 13" round coil in terms of how big I can go while still seeing gains in depth on coin/ring sized targets over the stock 10" coil. It may well be that even a round 12" coil won't show as much depth as my 12x10, due to the 12x10's very tight "less fuzzy" field than a "conventional" round DD coil IMO, soaking in less ground stew for it's "12 inch" physical size. For that reason, should the Ultimate not get as deep or deeper than the 12x10 in my soil, that doesn't mean it won't show gains in depth for you on coin/ring sized targets in your soil. Besides, I suspect this coil by shear looks alone is something unique other than just a "typical" round DD coil. It's physical appearance is somewhat like a Pro Coil, so I suspect there is more going on here under the hood then one might think.

Also, let's not forget about the other important aspect of a coil's performance. That being separation. I have yet to compare these coils on that aspect, but I do hear some FBS reports that, while the Ultimate doesn't appear to separate as well as the 12x10, it's separation is rather good for a coil of it's size, and that it does seem to have some unique ability to sound off on coins in iron not seen on other round DD coils.

 

[Critterhunter]

I was surfing the net trying to pin down rumors of the 12x10 being discontinued (can't find nothing on that by the way) and happened across another new little review of the Ultimate from a Sovereign user in the UK. Thus far the 2 or 3 tiny reviews I've found on the web so far of the Sovereign version (which I already posted, and now this one) are all from the UK. Appears no US Sovereign users have posted a short little review of it yet, other than a few blurbs from some Excal guys a while ago who were lucky enough to get their hands on them well before the Sovereign version officialy got here to the US a few weeks ago.

Anyway, so here's the latest little UK Sovereign user blurb on it's performance I found. By the way, he also mentioned in another short message that it's pinpointing spot on for him and getting stuff really deep in the sand (in additon to making remarks along those lines below). He said it also seems to make discriminate "run better". I would assume he means it's more stable than the stock 10" Tornado, but who knows what coil he was using prior to this on his GT?

"Hi took my new ultimate coil on my Minelab Sov Gt.This was the first outing on a large Cornish storm beach with miles of wet sand on the spring tides.My mate was with me and he had his Whites PI at the end of the search we both had two rings each but my mate had five more coins and a large divers watch than me.But he had dug many more holes then me digging up small bobby clips and larger lumps of iron.I dug no iron and very little ally bits,found the new coil to pinpoint very well and was a joy the swing as this looks very big but is light.Also it seems to let the Sov run a bit more stable on the wet in disc mode.All the finds that i had were deep and the rings came from three scoops down and gave a nice signal in the all metal mode the silver ring was found out in the water i found this coil was a bit hard to use in the water with all the surge but would be fine in calm water so far the new coil..."

 

[Critterhunter]

Since this field test thread is linked to the coil sticky, figured I'd link to a few other threads on this coil that people can follow for more user reviews on it thus far. This coil is still extremely new for the Sovereign, and even very new for other machines for that matter, so keep that in mind as opinions may change one way or the other over time...

This is Finders Keepers excellent 13" Ultimate comparison to the WOT at a spot that had been worked hard prior with both the WOT and other machines...

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1775173

And some more user remarks about it for beach hunting and compared to the 12x10 at the beach...

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1771004,1771154#msg-1771154

And my next test of this coil against the 12x10 at the beach gridding/marking targets...

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1778621

 

[Critterhunter]

Sorry about this, but I just want to keep any Ultimate review threads from me or others linked to this thread, since this thread is linked via the coil sticky on field reports on it...

Video- 13" Ultimate, SEF 12x10, 10" Tornado, & Sun Ray S-5...All Head To Head On An Air Tests With Ruler In Foreground Of Camera For Easy Viewing Of Results. As Precise As Humanly Possible, I Guess...

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1779139

 

[Critterhunter]

Sorry again about this, but nothing to see here. Just linking another test thread of the Ultimate to this one...

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1783945

 

[Critterhunter]

Headed to a known deep coin spot today to do another round of marking targets with poker chips to compare both coils. The Ultimate was first to do it's thing and find some targets to see if the 12x10 could hit them just as well. This site is relatively low in trash. Trash exists here, but no where near in the quantity of your typical park. It's the same site I marked poker chips with them both the first time, and I think (?) the 12x10 went first that last time. Either way, I had recorded all the targets for each coil on a notepad...responses from north, south, east west, how deep they sounded, how easy they were to go coin on me with each coil, etc. I was looking for either deep sounding stuff (say 6" or deeper), and either good coin hits or somewhat borderline ones that might be an iron false, but could also be a super deep coin that is giving the ID/audio issues to work up (like say a coin in the 8, 9, 10, or beyond range, as coins 8" + in this somewhat mineralized soil is a feat for any machine).

I ended up marking about 4 good coin hits with the Ultimate from any direction, about 4 that were borderline or nulled one way or such, and 2 hits in the 141 to 146 nickel range at depth too. Rather than list the results for each coil, as I didn't dig any coins or see any distinctions between the two depth wise (even on targets in the 10" range in terms of how easy they were to hit), I figured I'd just get to the results of what I did see between the two today on the 10 targets marked by the Ultimate.

There were about 3 of the deep good hits by the Ultimate (which I checked from every angle) that I was sure were going to be deep wheats, yet when I re-checked those with the 12x10 I could see that they were obviously going to be iron. The 12x10 seemed to break them up in one direction usually where as the Ultimate gave me solid "wheat" hits from any direction on those 3. I know it did, because I referred to my notes after I checked the targets with my 12x10 to refresh my memory on what the Ultimate did (not remembering until I looked at my notes). So bottom line is the Ultimate made 3 of the targets sound really good that the 12x10 easily told me were probably iron. Oddly, the 12x10 was right on target with these off to the side of where the Ultimate marked them with the poker chips. I suspect the Ultimate was being fooled by a coin spike at the end of the iron, where as the 12x10 was seeing the iron directly over it and saying "no way this is a coin."

Now, could be that I'm just more used to the 12x10 and know the clues to watch for on iron false hits. Regardless, I didn't really see it as a problem for the Ultimate. Just a oddity that I thought I'd report on. And you might think perhaps I was running sensitivity too high for the Ultimate, because most of us know that can cause more false coin hits to sound good with iron. Nope, Ultimate was stable at 12PM on the dial, where as the 12x10 matched that stability at about 11PM. So once again the 12x10 was able to run at a somewhat higher sensitivity setting. There was no EMI that I know of in this remote area, but just the same higher than noon the Ultimate was chattering a bit more. I could have hunting at higher settings as that's the way I normally ride the edge of a coil's stability, but I found that the Ultimate would null on the ground minerals too much any higher than noon, so rather than EMI causing it to limit it's self to noon, it was the soil's mineralization that was the dominate factor as to where I needed to set sensitivity with it. Truth be known if it wasn't for the mineralization, I could have rode the Ultimate at full blast sensitivity, because I did for a while and it wasn't chattering beyond what I'll put up with for riding the edge of stability.

Same deal with the 12x10. At full sensitivity it was stable enough to hunt with (more so than the Ultimate), but the 12x10 too was nulling too much on the ground minerals, so I kept adjusting it down until I found the sweet spot where the nulling was only a here and there thing and not a constant that might cause me to miss a deep target. For the 12x10 it was around 11PM. For the Ultimate it was noon. I have been able to run the Ultimate at full manual at one site and it only had ever so slight chatter (well away from any EMI sources), so it is capable of full manual and still have about 95% of total full stability at some sites. Well within the margins of what I'd push a coil to while hunting.

Now for the good about the Ultimate...This coil feels FANTASTIC on the end of the shaft. I've said it before but it feels lighter than the 12x10 even though the scale says they are a dead match (without a coil cover on the 12x10, as I hunt with it). The Ultimate just seems to make the shaft balance better for some reason, which I think is the equal diameter all the way around the shaft being a round coil. The 12x10, while light too, for sure just "seems" a tad more less "ideal" than the Ultimate on the shaft, in a way I can't quite put a finger on. Maybe it's just the perception of such a large coil at the end of the shaft and not feeling what your eye tells you the weight should be.

Speaking of perceptions, when I put the 12x10 on after using the Ultimate, the 12x10 felt like I was using a tiny little coil like an 8 or 9" coil for a while until I got used to it again. For sure the Ultimate at least gives you the feeling of more effortless coverage as you sweep, although I don't know if that's reality or just a trick of the eye, because it's only 12 & 1/2" long even though it's 13" wide, so in reality it's only got a half inch more coverage per sweep. Whether the width of the Ultimate means it sees stuff further to the sides or not I haven't tested yet. I need to remember to do that with both coils and kind of mark the actual width of the detection field of both coils. I know they both detect their full length to the tip and tail, because that's how I've been PPing targets with both of them.

In conclusion so far, I have to say I like the Ultimate. It feels like a quality coil on the shaft, and it's stability is right up there nearly or just as good as the 12x10 in terms of running over rough ground it seems. It's in no way a finicky coil, and that's impressive for a coil of it's size. Although it might be a little more prone to EMI or mineralization in terms of having to run the sensitivity a bit lower than the 12x10, for a large coil those two issues are usually not their strong points, and yet the Ultimate is as well behaved as a smaller coil IMO.

Right now I'd have to say if I had the money to burn I'd pick up one of these coils in a heart beat to sit along side my 12x10. Is the Ultimate as deep or deeper, and does it separate left/right wise as well? Right now I can't tell, so that at least tells me both coils are near the pinnacle of performance in the latest and great of new coil designs. Although at least in my one air test video on Youtube the 12x10 looked to get about a half inch more depth, but as we all know air tests are one thing and actual in the ground performance is another.

One tiny extra opinion on both...The 12x10 appears to "ride the edge" of stability a bit more smoothly than the Ultimate does. What I mean is that if the 12x10 runs into a bit of chatter here or there it seems to ride in and out of it a bit more tamely, like a car going down the road with good shocks. Only way I can put it, but just the same that's not a knock on the Ultimate, because it's one rock solid stable coil too IMO, in particular in my mineralized land sites and so far in my limited testing of it in my mineralized beaches. It's a heck of a coil any way I look at it, I just wish I could pin down for sure if it's as deep or deeper, or if it separates as well as the 12x10. The video I did a few days ago shows it's too hard to tell in that nail masking test. Both coils breezed through those tests, and the fact that the S-5 struggled with that left/right masking obstacle course I think says a lot about the Ultimate and the 12x10 (if air testing is any indication of reality, which I'm not claiming it is).

I'll add one more oddity. When I first got the 12x10 the audio seemed much crisper and sharper to me than the 10" Tornado. But now swapping between coils, it's the Ultimate that feels like it's got more "crisp" audio. I'm not sure if that's fact, or if it's just that the Ultimate makes targets sound a bit louder so I'm hearing more of an edge to the target response, where as the 12x10's reduced volume is making the report sound a little less crisp. Remember that I've got the volume on the GT all the way down, so if I cranked it up maybe the 12x10 would sound just as sharp due to the increased volume level. For sure the Ultimate has a loud voice. Even though I have no trouble hearing the 12x10's report at depth, there is no doubt the Ultimate barks a little louder of deeper stuff.

All I've got to say for now. Some of this stuff is somewhat vague in impressions, but just trying to pass it along. Just want people to know, even if you have a 12x10, I feel this coil is a worthy addition to your line up. I'm sure it's got some particular strengths I'm not seeing yet compared to the 12x10. The louder audio is one perk right there. If it covers the full span of the coil's width than that's another. The balance "feel" of it is another. What do I not like about this coil? Nothing yet, other than the white color. I hear Detech now makes them in black too. If I owned this coil it'd be getting a full painting with spray on bed liner (which looks awesome by the way), because I am not a fan of white for coils. It's already looking pretty ragged, and I've babied this coil since it's not mine.

Hope it cleans up well before I send it back, but I made sure the person who loaned it to me isn't one of those types who hates to get a speck of dirt or mud on a detector, otherwise I wouldn't have accepted the gracious offer to try the coil out. I've got a friend who is fanatical about keeping detectors clean and it drives me up the wall. You don't want to hear the story about the small scratch I think I put (was it me?) in an Explorer's screen that I bought from him and then later sold him back. At least I think it was me that did that but it's been a while. Might have been him and I never heard the end of how upset he was about it.


Oh, PS- When I was taking a break I had the detector laying on top of a picnic table. I hadn't noticed it before but the coil cover for the Ultimate doesn't cover the entire bottom of the coil. A few of the spiderweb spokes on the coil are not covered and have hollow ribbing under them like little compartments. I could see that being a problem with beach hunters who scrub the sand or just from sitting the coil on the ground. Wet sand will probably cake up inside of those chambers. Not a big issue. An easy fix would be to just fill those chambers with something super light like spray in insulation foam that comes in a can to fill them, or even better Gorilla Glue, as it foams out when mixed with water and is super light, yet harder than foam, almost like a hard plastic when dry.

 

[Critterhunter]

Just wanted to link a few more threads to this Ultimate coil sticky thread, because both these posts I just made are in relation to the performance thus far of this coil...

Hunting in PP mode this thing is deep beyond belief. Deeper than the 12x10? I don't know that, because I'm new to PP mode, but if you are a cache, civil war relic hunter, or even for coins, you might want to read this to see how deep this thing was reacting in PP mode today. It blew my mind. Scroll down the thread until you come across the right post about the Ultimate land hunting today in PP...

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1786256,page=2

This thread is about coins on edge and the unique distinct sound they make, but I wanted to link my recent post to this thread because the Ultimate hit it's first on edge coin for me today at a spot I've pounded with machine machines and coils around the same exact tree for years and years, although I haven't really used the 12x10 hardly any yet around that tree, so I can't say it would have missed that coin. I doubt it would have, because I know the 12x10 is exra good at hitting coins on edge, but it appears the Ultimate might be just as good too at those on edge coins. Scroll down this thread as well until you see the Ultimate mentioned as nailing a coin on edge...

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1684893

There is more specific Ultimate review information in those two posts. I just didn't want to re-hash it here too, so you'll find it there.

The Ultimate ran stable at 11PM in this somewhat mineralized soil. I really like this coil. Am not looking forward to sending it back to the person who offered me to try it out. I'd like to try to talk them into me trading my S-5 for it but I highly doubt they'll bite on that. If the Ultimate isn't as good in some respects as the 12x10 (which I've only seen a few small ways thus far like stability at as high of sensitivity settings as the 12x10 for a given site, or that it *might* get fooled on iron a little more...but I'm not used to it yet so that might not be true), it's at least as good in other respects. For sure it's got a very loud and "crisp" voice. It is louder than the 12x10 at the same low volume setting, but not really sure it's any more crisp or sharp in it's audio than the 12x10's improvement in that respect over the stock 10" Tornado. It could just be the louder volume with the volume control at it's lowest makes the Ultimate's report sound more sharp to me.

 

[Critterhunter]

Results of the Ultimate on the GT tested against the old 8" BBS coil on an Excalibur 800 at a very mineralized beach, to see if the old rule of thumb among detectors that smaller coils penetrate severly mineralized ground better is true in this particular case. I have a friend who believes the 8" BBS coil is better at badly mineralized beaches than say the 10" Tornado is. And for good reason, as it always seems he's doing better than my other two friends with 10" Tornados on their newer Excaliburs.

I was just about ready to believe the same thing myself, but felt the success of him in comparison to them might be more due to his technique than actual coil choice. So out of curiosity, in an unplanned test, I decided to see how the Ultimate on the GT did in depth against that old BBS coil on his Excal 800 at this severly mineralized beach. This test on a buried penny also compared discrimination mode versus pin point mode on both machines. The results were interesting. Unfortunately, forgot to take my camera along since I wasn't planning on doing any such test, but I felt the results were still worth passing along. This "video" isn't really a video of that event since I was caught without my camera, but rather just the details of how it all panned out...

http://youtu.be/eQKgOq0NVQ0

In this video below...How the Ultimate has done on coins on edge in the field in comparison to the 12x10 and stock 10" Tornado, and also describing/showing the two unique sounds coins on edge make on the Sovereign. Once you master these two distinct sounds coins on edge can make you may forget them down the road. But when you hear them again you'll instantly remember, and it'll stop you dead in your tracks, and you'll be wondering just what kind of old coin others might have missed as you dig. I've found plenty of even shallow on edge silvers at "dead" public sites with the GT by recognizing these two unique sounds coins on edge can make on the Sovereign. The Sovereign seems especially good at IDing coins on edge distinctly from trash via some unusual audio traits. The stock 10" Tornado is great at it, but the 12x10 is better IMO, and it appears the Ultimate might be as well...

http://youtu.be/CHo91fFIITI

 

[deepdiger60]

Are there any video,s of a actual hunt ? also there is to much writing on the video,s to see anything . Jim

 

[Critterhunter]

Jim, there is an icon at the bottom of all youtube videos to kill all text bubbles, or you can kill individual bubbles by clicking on them.

But just the same, I'm doing what interests me. Whether others should find it of interest or not is not up to me. That's the whole beauty and concept of different channels and freedom of choice- A variety to suit your individual interests or tastes, just like on TV.

If only a few find my pictorials/videos to their liking then that's good enough for me, because I'm not trying to shoot for what has already been done a thousand times before by others. Got to make what I'm looking for, otherwise there wouldn't be much point to motivate me, especially if I could already find what I want out there already. On some channels I can find what I want, but not always, so I figured I'd start making my own too.

As I pointed out above in the prior post, many of my videos are more of "pictorials". Not all will be, but many will be to try to convey a concept that can't easily just be shown without knowing what to look for. I'm the kind of person who would rather read a coil field test in a magazine that gets more into the meat and technical aspects of it's performance than just watch a video that doesn't dive into more detail about that. Just my nature. Different strokes for different folks.

If I don't like what I see I either switch channels or make what I'm looking for. I'd encourage you to do the same to satisfy your needs. After all, if I was forced to listen to only one station on the radio to suit everybody I know I wouldn't be very happy, especially if it was rap music. Some like rap, some like rock, some like heavy metal, and still others like country or pop. Again, all about individual choice, tastes, and interests, and all at the touch of a dial...

 

[deepdiger60]

Critter there is nothing wrong with your videos that wasn't my point i just never seen so much writing,s on a video before to demonstrate a coil and i have seen thousands of video,s online since 1996 lol , my point was to show how well a new coil works is to go in the woods or fields what ever and find targets dont matter if it is a penny or a gold coin that is all i was tryin to say . Now i know how to see your video,s work keep up the good work i meant no disrespect . Jim

 

[JW]

fingers, as it is a compression fitting and over tightening may cause a leak. So finger tighten only!

 

[Critterhunter]

Hey JW, haven't seen you on the forums in a while so glad to see you chiming in.

Yea, I'm sure your right and it's much more prudent to only go finger tight. I risk it though and once finger tight I turn it just a hair more with a wrench, but sure it could crack or leak or something, so I'd heed JW's expert advice. Before doing that with all my coils I use Shoe Goo to seal the threads, under the top of the cap, and then a big glob on the coil cable under where the rubber cable sleeve slides down. I put enough on so it oozes out the top when the nut/sleeve is slid into place and then wipe off the excess. Even with my coils that are epoxy filled, I worry water might wick down the wires to the pre-amp inside the epoxy.

I see some guys are using the Ultimate in the water. Since it's not rated waterproof I assume it's not epoxy filled with it's super light weight for a coil of this size? Even more important to make sure no leaks around that coil nut happen. One pin hole in the coil and it could be lights out. Wearing down the bottom of that coil might be a very risky thing if it's used in the water. I don't care for the coil cover on it, and don't use coil covers on any of my coils anyway to save weight and the hassle of cleaning under them, so when I get around to replacing this loaner with my own Ultimate I'm going to protect it with 4 or 5 coats of bed liner. If it's a white coil I'm doing the top too because I don't care for white.

I assume you guys are out of Ultimates now for the Sovereign/Excal due to the policy of not carrying coils for defunct machines? If that's the case, I see in this thread...

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1789503,page=1

That KellyCo Joe's said they've approved the idea of getting like 10 people together with cash in hand and Kellyco special ordering the 12x10 on a per-order basis in groups of ten or something? Seems like a good idea to me. Does that apply to the Ultimate as well? Still say despite prior poor sales of coils for defunct machines the Sovereign is a bit different having different models made for 20 years that are all coil compatible, combined with the Excalibur still being made which is also coil compatible. Changing coils seems one of the most popular mods on Excaliburs with people. Not to mention the Sovereign is still among the top heavy hitters for finding old coins at "dead" parks, so there are going to be a lot of guys using them for years to come. I know I will. I bet there are more coil compatible Sovereigns and Excals out there than pretty much any other detector having so many models being made for so many years, unlike many other now defunct detectors.

Also, since the "by 10" special order thing seems a go, wondering if you guys might do that for the 4.5x7 or 10x14 Detech coils for the Sovereign, as far as I know the BBS versions were never sold in the US but are over in the UK. Detech doesn't make an 8x6 for the BBS units, so seems like that little odd shaped trash coil might be a popular item if it was available to US buyers.

Since I'm posting anyway, might as well kill two birds with one stone here. Trying to link any field reports on this coil from others to this thread, so here's Gearbox's excellent initial field reports on the Ultimate. Another great review...

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1789329

 

[Critterhunter]

My final assessment of the 13" Ultimate before returning to the owner who graciously offered to loan me it to try and contrast to the 12x10 and 10" Tornado...

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1800243

 

[Mike Livingston]

kellyco told me it was. i put mine in the water at the lake no problem.

 

[Critterhunter]

Welp, tried to lay my hands on a new Ultimate about a month or so back but Kellyco said they were down to two and 1 was a factory defect and the other was used, with both having issues. Didn't care if the used one was dirty so long as it worked well, but was told both didn't work correctly so they weren't up for sale. Without Kellyco carrying them now that the GT is discontinued, and with so few sold here before that since it was a very new coil, I didn't see much hope in finding a used on around these parts. The other day I got an Email from a friend who already has one and he managed to get his hands on a second one for me if I wanted it. I said sure, and with payments to him I should have one of my own to replace the loaner I was testing out around May or so.

I am excited about this coil for certain situations, mainly large wide open fields or beaches were coverage is of primary importance for that day rather than max depth. It may be as deep as my 12x10 in my soil. In head to heads on marked targets in the field before digging I never hit a target at depth that it or the 12x10 both couldn't see equally well, but I do suspect that the 12x10 is just a half inch or so deep in my soils/sands.

Either way, the Ultimate has some of it's own unique traits not found to me in "conventional" round DD coils, so I wanted one for any given day I wanted faster coverage than even the 12x10's nice improvement in that respect over the stock 10" Tornado. The Ultimate allows me to grid without holding my foot steps back as much sometimes, and for it's size, even though it's very light like the 12x10 without a coil cover, the Ultimate just feels even lighter somehow with seeing such a big coil at the end of the shaft and yet not feeling what you see. It's got a very "right" feel to it on the end of the shaft for large coverage.

It is not as easy to work around trash with as the 12x10 due to the 12x10's unique shape, but for sure once you position yourself right the Ultimate has a very sharp DD line to me much like the 12x10, even if maybe it's not quite as sharp at that (not sure either way on that, but it's darn good). Despite the louder and sharper bark of the 12x10 over the stock 10" Tornado for me, the Ultimate is just a tad louder at depth than even that, and also offers a crisp treble like clear voice in it's audio report like the 12x10 does.

The 12x10 is more stable in EMI or minerals but I have been able to run the Ultimate at full blast sensitivity in low EMI and good soil much like I can often do with the 12x10 at even worse spots than that. I owned a 15x12 and it was a great coil, but when I force myself to take the 12x10 off I want something more different from it in traits just to change things up, and just like the 12x10 is very different from round DD's, the Ultimate is also very different from other coils as well in it's own unique way.

It also seems very good at hitting coins on edge like the 12x10. In my soil the 15x12 did not seem to get the depth of the 12x10 or even the Ultimate on coin/ring sized targets, due I guess to soaking up too much ground stew for a coil of that size. The Ultimate is actually 13" wide by 12.5" long, and I think either about 12 or 13" is the max coil size to still see gains in depth in my soils/sands on coin/ring sized targets.

So I'm excited, God willing here of course I will have an Ultimate back in my line up to replace my loaner. With the addition of it my line up is pretty much complete- 12x10 most days, Ultimate for big/wide open grids on days I want to do that even faster, 7.25" eight inch Tornado for super heavy trash without as much need to re-grid from various angles due to it's shorter DD line length from tip to tail, and that's about it. I did own an S-5 for a while but had some issues for my particular tastes in a trash coil, so that's why I got the 7.25" Tornado with it's legendary reptutation of depth and unmasking in the worst of iron or other junk. The 12x10 is outstanding in left/right separation, but just the same there will be situations of masking where the eight inch Tornado will shine.

Nothing else really interests me coil wise, other than the WOT to try and also a 6" (not 5") Excelerator if I can get my hands on one of those very rare birds. They do exist but are much harder to find than the FBS versions out there, and the 5" is out there in far greater numbers but even it's a rare one for the BBS units. Not impressed with what I hear of the 5", but am impressed with what I hear of the 6" FBS Excelerator, and hoping that translates to the BBS version as well. I might have to buy one of them used from a fleabay UK user selling one, as I bet they exist in numbers more over there as it is with other Detech coils.

 

[Critterhunter]

(Pictures mid way through this post...)

Had already sent my loaner 13" Ultimate back to it's owner before I was sent another coil, the S-12 Intruder, by somebody who wanted me to contrast it to the 12x10, as they were contemplating buying an 12x10 as well to add to their line up, so I didn't have the Ultimate around to post some pics of it with the S-12 in contrast size wise.

The S-12 field tests/hunts can be found in this thread...

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1807089

I liked the loaner Ultimate for large wide open areas for a bit faster coverage over the 12x10 when in the mood for that, and in the field it's depth compared to the 12x10 on marked targets before digging the Ultimate was able to keep up on every one for the most part, but at least in air tests it shows me about a half inch less depth than the 12x10 on same target/same settings.

Still, this coil has some unique traits unlike conventional round DDs, so when I'm in the mood to force myself to take the 12x10 on, I don't want a coil that mimics my 10" Tornado or my 12x10, but rather something a bit different.

This coil fills that niche for me, and while I'm still not sure yet it's quite as deep as the 12x10 in my soil, and while it doesn't as easily allow me to maneuver among heavy trash like the 12x10 does without re-positioning myself to get around the width wide bulk of the Ultimate, it for sure allows me to cover ground just a tad faster when gridding wide open fields or large beaches.

I could have bought another 15x12 to do this, but at least in my soils it didn't seem to provide as much depth as the Ultimate for a coil in that size class range. And besides, the 15x12 would be too much like using a larger version of my 12x10.

When I'm in the mood to use a different coil, I want something different with certain qualities or traits, and for sure the Ultimate is that compared to conventional round coils IMO.

And while the Ultimate is more bulky width wise to sniff between the trash and isolate targets, once maneuvered into proper position to slice and dice a few targets right up against each other, I find it's DD line seems rather sharp just like the 12x10 is for me. Maybe not as sharp, but darn near close if not just as good IMO.

So I had tried to secure myself one from Kellyco a month or two back to replace my loaner, but found that they only had two left and both were returns that were not working properly. I was told they had confirmed that with their own testing of the two, so they weren't willing to sell either one of them as used coils at a reduced price.

Then, out of the blue, a few weeks back a friend (who never posts in the forum by the way and prefers to keep a low profile just like many I converse with do), sent me an Email to say that he's managed to secure a brand new Ultimate for me, and that it was on it's way and feel free to pay him back for his cost of purchasing it as money allows.

Now that's a great guy right there, and I want to thank him publicly (although anonymously) for such a kind and unexpected surprise. It was something totally unexpected and I'm happy as heck to get my hands on one of these puppies.

When you treat people as you'd want to be treated yourself, I find that that kind of thing is more than returned in kind much of the time, in ways one could never even have imagined. So here's to you my friend...

You went above and beyond and it came as a total surprise to me. You know if you ever need a favor I'll do my best to help you out.

The timing couldn't be more perfect, because as of late I've been working some wide open sites where coverage is of primary important, and the S-12 just wasn't "doing it for me" in replacement of my 12x10 until I get around to fixing the short in the coil cable behind the plug.

That's an easy job to do, but I've just been putting it off, and now with the Ultimate in my hanger for the perfect situations I wanted it for in the sites I'm mostly working right now, where I'm gridding large open tracts of land, looks like I can be lazy and put off fixing my 12x10 for a little while longer.

I was "this close" to motivating myself to break out the soldering iron and heat shrink and get busy on that, but suddenly I've got a reprieve in the deadline in my head to take a few minutes out of my day and fix the darn thing.

Here's some pics I just took of the Ultimate and S-12 in perspective to each other, the S-12 being 12.5" in diameter, while the Ultimate is 13" wide by 12.5" long...

Both side by side...
[attachment 263184 IMG_2158.jpg]

S-12 over Ultimate...
[attachment 263188 IMG_2161.jpg]

Ultimate over S-12...
[attachment 263189 IMG_2162.jpg]

S-12 Over Ultimate with Ultimate flipped upside down for a more flush size perspective view of the two...
[attachment 263194 IMG_2164.jpg]

Ultimate Over S-12 with S-12 flipped upside down for that more flush size perspective view...
[attachment 263192 IMG_2166.jpg]

And finally, the Ultimate on my light weight GT land rig...
[attachment 263196 IMG_2169.jpg]

This coil is a feather weight for it's size, and although it's very close to the 12x10 and S-12 in weight, it just feels even more so "effortless" on the shaft when swinging it.

I suspect much of that has to do with what your eye is seeing size wise yet not feeling what you see on the end of the shaft. Part of it also might be it's round more distributed shape on the shaft to balance it out. The S-12 is round too of course, but it has a more aft mounting point, where as the 12x10 and Ultimate have their mounted pivot directly at the center of the coil.

Like other Detech coils, I found the coil cable nut on the top of the coil very loose. My normal routine is to put Shoe Goo under the nut, hand tighten it, and then give it just a hair more of a turn with a wrench to insure no possible wicking action of water down the wires. This coil is never going to see the water for me, since it's not rated as waterproof, but just the same this is what I always do with all my coils.

It comes with a one year warranty, so until it's out of warranty the coil nut thing is going to wait. And, just like my other coils, when it's out of warranty I'll also be ditching the coil cover and using 4 or so coats of spray on bed liner on the bottom/sides to both drop weight and also to avoid the hassle of cleaning under coil covers.

This coil I might paint top and bottom with the spray on bed liner, because I'm no big fan of white coils, and I saw a WOT coil done this way and it looked mean looking, and like it came from the factory with that black finish due to the ripples bed liner spray have in texture.

But, my only concern is that this coil might be white for a reason, being that it's not epoxy filled and looks to have some type of high tech resin used to fill the coil casing and keep the windings from moving.

If that's the case, then I worry a black coil might soak up too much heat and give stability issues in hot sun, as I've ran into that problem with coils that were white for that reason in the past on various machines. Then again, I see Detech now sells these coils in a black version, so I wonder if it would be a problem at all.

Probably the best way to approach it would be to paint the coil with black paint that will wash off and then use it several times on hot days. If I don't see any stability issues then I'll wash that off and go ahead with the spray on bed liner.

Yes, my coil line up is complete now.....

10" Tornado for my water rig, 12x10 90% of the time on land for both deep coins and heavy trash, 7.25" eight inch Tornado for super heavy trash without as much need to re-grid a site from different angles due to it's shorter DD line, and the 13" Ultimate for big wide open areas when maximum coverage while still retaining good depth is of primary importance to me.

For field hunting in stubble, I may zip tie some corruplast plastic sign material to the bottom of the Ultimate, so it'll glide over that stuff without issue.

Beyond these coils, having sold off my S-5 and 15x12, and having used the S-12 and old heavy BBS800 coil, the only ones I'm really interested in at the moment to still try are the 6" (not 5") Excelerator, which is about as scarce as hen's teeth to find in the US for the BBS units, along with the WOT coil and the 10x14. The 10x14 also being very hard to find this side of the ocean.

Perhaps maybe the 4.5x7 Detech trash coil as well, but again that one is more myth than legend in the US as well. 8" Coinsearch might be something I'll pick up just to see if it's any different than my 8" Tornado for certain situations, as people seem to hang onto those original coils for the Sovereign and there must be good reason behind it.

 

[Critterhunter]

In the midst of just checking my new 13" Ultimate coil real quick at a particular low EMI testing grounds of mine in the woods, making sure it was as "hot" or deep on a clad dime as the prior loaner Ultimate coil I had (which it was- both got 11" on a clad dime at full manual sensitivity/same settings), I figured I'd play around with the sensitivity dial and see how that impacted the air depths, along with how Pin Point and the All Metal Fixed and All Metal Track modes did in contrast to each other. The results were interesting...

And yea, I know air testing Minelabs is unlike other detectors, in that due to the unique way Minelabs handle (and thus need) a ground signal, they can and do get better depths in some soils and sands, unlike other detectors which use a conventional ground balance and as a general rule of thumb get much less depth in the ground than they do in an air test.

I have dug deeper coins with certain coils on my GT than air tests show. But just the same, this sensitivity play would help to illustrate the effect of RX gain (the sensitivity control) on signal amplification.. I compiled the results in picture format, so the alignment of the chart wouldn't get screwed up...

[attachment 263457 UltimateCoilModesampSensitivityDepthTests.JPG]

And here's a compilation of basic air depth tests on a clad dime with other coils at this same site/settings using full blast manual sensitivity unless otherwise noted...

Keep in mind it might be that certain coils might be more designed to operate at optimal levels of performance when loaded with a ground load perhaps, so by no means does this list tell the whole story on how these coils may or may not perform in the ground, as well as how these BBS units seem to increase their performance in some soils and sands when a ground load is present...

8.5" - Sun Ray S-5 (5.5") Intruder
8.5" - Minelab 8" (7.25" actual size- tiny thing) Tornado at half (12PM position) sensitivity
9.0" - Sun Ray S-12 (12.5") Intruder (This is first audible response from it)
9.5 to 10" - Minelab 8" Tornado at full sensitivity
9.5" - Sun Ray S-12 (12.5") Intruder (This is the first response from it, a null)
10" - Minelab 10" Tornado (On brand new Excalibur II)
10.5" - Minelab 10" Tornado (This time tested on Sovereign GT)
11" - Detech 13" Ultimate
11.5" - Detech SEF 12x10