Identifying multiple targets simultaneously... Responses no longer allowed. If you have comments concerning multiple targets, please make a new post

[Gemini13]

I really , truly and deeply hope minelab and ALL other mfg of detectors are reading the posts, cause I cannot see how some of these guys are not already on payroll for one of them. Obviously guys like Bruce Candy could study under some of our armchair experts. Can we please just thank Digger and the others for all the time, dedication and commitment and maybe just maybe learn something! Just being able to truly "see" multiply targets even with the same recovery speed and same avg of id's, at least to my small simple mind is a god send. Cause now; it seems to me instead of just digging it to be safe, only to find my bent rusty nail; I may truly have another tool to help me decide. Or the iffy signal that is masked now gets dug most definitely because I CAN SEE SOMETHING GOOD and explore that further. With faster and faster technology showing up about daily I doubt nothing is improved . It is time to shut up and buy it, try it or wait to see what those of us who are buying it find. Please give the trash a rest. I think asking questions is great, it helps us learn but getting an answer that is the best a person can give, then to turn around and not only beat the dead horse but bury it, dig it up and beat it again is just plain nuts.

I like the bit about "Shutting up and buying it" its going to cost me 2 MONTHS wages to do that and that's without paying bills - The questions that have been asked by thinking detectorists have on the whole been answered to some degree - BUT they've skipped around an awful lot with superfluous responses - especially if its been tested by supposed GURUS!!!

So you're mad because you can't afford it and that's Minelabs fault? I'm seeing this thought process a lot from folks. I can't afford a Ferrari either but I'm not going to bash the company or their products because of it. Some things just aren't meant for everybody to have one.

 

[earthmansurfer]

http://www.minelabowners.com/forum/videos/516/target-trace-pin-point-trace-new-minelab-ctx-3030.html

I think those that know me here know I will probably getx a CTX. But getting a coin with iron 1" above it is not unique to the CTX. Check one of my recent videos labeled as such. I got it with tone and VID, which is impressive. If you are not hearing the high tone, you probably miss that screen response as most of us are tone first hunters, then we investigate. The disc at depth is what I am looking forward to with the CTX.

Albert

 

[Gemini13]

http://www.minelabowners.com/forum/videos/516/target-trace-pin-point-trace-new-minelab-ctx-3030.html

If you are not hearing the high tone, you probably miss that screen response as most of us are tone first hunters, then we investigate.

Albert

I think this is where a lot of people are missing the point. The CTX allows you to not have to be a tone only hunter. The CTX shows you things that you miss or can't hear when you only utilize audio. I think people are going to have retrain themselves somewhat when using this machine.

 

[Gemini13]

http://www.minelabowners.com/forum/videos/516/target-trace-pin-point-trace-new-minelab-ctx-3030.html

If you are not hearing the high tone, you probably miss that screen response as most of us are tone first hunters, then we investigate.

Albert

I think this is where a lot of people are missing the point. The CTX allows you to not have to be a tone only hunter. The CTX shows you things that you miss or can't hear when you only utilize audio. I think people are going to have retrain themselves somewhat when using this machine.

Quoting myself because I can't edit my post anymore. To add to what I previously said this machine seems to be emphasizing the usage of the display more while hunting than perhaps machines in the past have emphasized. At least that's how it appears to me. Having obviously never used one it's only my opinion based on what I've seen both in Randy's posts and the videos I've seen.

 

[earthmansurfer]

Gemini13 - Very fair point. And I am of the type that says the more information one has the better when people say they just tone hunt (no meters). I do imagine, if this feature on the CTX is successful with unmasking, that this can really make the industry rethink things. That said, it is not exactly fun to hunt and stare at the meter, but perhaps it will be just in select spots.

I think a part of the reason I was so successful on deeper coins with the E-Trac was because of the meter. The movement or bounciness at depth in my iron mineralized ground was a language all it's own.

Albert

 

[Critterhunter]

The "bullseye" represents the target you isolated under the coil. If you worked the coil properly, it is probably directly under the center at this point in time. The TID number appearing at the top of the smartscreen represents the ferrous and conductive values of that "bullseye" target. The object at the bottom of the Smartscreen represents another target you passed over, but not currently under the center of the coil. The "Target Trace" tells you that you've passed over one target while getting to the other one. If you want to know the TID number for the other target, move the coil to isolate it, and center the coil over it.

Think of the Smartscreen as a sheet of graph paper that has 35 horizontal columns and 50 vertical columns. The horizontal columns represent ferrous properties and the vertical columns represent conductive properties. The Ferrous columns are numbered 1 - 35, from top to bottom. And the conductive columns are numbered 1 -50, left to right. The grid lines on the screen are in increments of 10.

In the first picture, the isolated target with the bullseye has a TID of 10/36. The ferrous of 10 makes sense because it is right on the first line down from the top. The 36 conductive also makes sense because it is about halfway between the third and fourth vertical line. Since the coil is isolated on that target, it provides a TID of 10/36. The other target is not under the center of the coil, but you just passed it because it left a Target trail. And judging by the grid location, it has a ferrous value of 11 and a conductive value of 12. If you swept back to that target, the TID would change to represet the 11/12 when you centered over it. And you would now have a target trail left to represent the first target. In the second picture, the target directly under the "hot spot" of the coil is providing both a grid location and the TID number of 12/36. If you're in the US, it is likely a penny. The other target that you passed over is likely iron, as the grid location indicates a highly ferrous target. If you moved your coil to center on what appears to be iron, you should get a TID of approx 31/42. And the previous target would be represented by the trace left on the grid only because it is not the one you are centered over. HH Randy

The "bullseye" represents the target you isolated under the coil.

If you worked the coil properly, it is probably directly under the center at this point in time.

The TID number appearing at the top of the smartscreen represents the ferrous and conductive values of that "bullseye" target.

The object at the bottom of the Smartscreen represents another target you passed over, but not currently under the center of the coil.

The "Target Trace" tells you that you've passed over one target while getting to the other one.

If you want to know the TID number for the other target, move the coil to isolate it, and center the coil over it.

Right - I've read - re-read - then read again the above statement/post. I've even broken it down into a line by line passage to make it easier. Surely everything that the "Target Trace" shows you has been "HEARD" in your headphones in the form of an accepted or rejected target?

Which leads me to the question I want to ask before I even consider buying one of these machines - has there been a "substantial" improvement in the recovery speed between targets?

If this question has already been answered elsewhere my apologies but there's that much hype it's unbelievable

Your missing the point - my question concerns recovery speed

Nope not missing your point, see this post by Randy.

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?86,1702492,1702492#msg-1702492

Aha! very clever, but that's made my mind up - will not be buying one.

Digger, thank you for that excellent information. The quotes ExIINut put in bold were exactly what I was looking for to help answer my questions about it's separation abilites. This is the kind of information I needed to help me decide if I will sell off a few things and buy one. I feel I am closer to a decision now one way or the other. Now I await reading more on any better ID at depth ability it may have in most common ground conditions (like my soil), and not just in really bad ones where it's extra ground balancing feature does indeed appear to help ID at depth. Once I fill up on that last bit of questions I'll be able to make my decision.

Based on what I've read and videos I've watched thus far (that could very well change as I see more) I'm inclined to believe that a good machine using a comparable or better DD coil should be able to isolate and ID those targets. Metal detecting requires coil movement and any experienced hunter knows to first listen for any hint of high tone among the lows, and then to stop and wiggle individualy over said targets to see what each one is. "If you want to know the TID number for the other target, move the coil to isolate it, and center the coil over it." That statement helped clearify two of the questions I had in my mind, but every one of the above things that ExpIInut put in bold carry a lot of impact on the questions I had when I read them very carefully.

So I thank everybody for their input and the back and fourth discussions. Especially to Digger for putting up with many probing questions from those of us that just have to get things nailed down before deciding to buy one.

 

[Gemini13]

The "bullseye" represents the target you isolated under the coil. If you worked the coil properly, it is probably directly under the center at this point in time. The TID number appearing at the top of the smartscreen represents the ferrous and conductive values of that "bullseye" target. The object at the bottom of the Smartscreen represents another target you passed over, but not currently under the center of the coil. The "Target Trace" tells you that you've passed over one target while getting to the other one. If you want to know the TID number for the other target, move the coil to isolate it, and center the coil over it.

Think of the Smartscreen as a sheet of graph paper that has 35 horizontal columns and 50 vertical columns. The horizontal columns represent ferrous properties and the vertical columns represent conductive properties. The Ferrous columns are numbered 1 - 35, from top to bottom. And the conductive columns are numbered 1 -50, left to right. The grid lines on the screen are in increments of 10.

In the first picture, the isolated target with the bullseye has a TID of 10/36. The ferrous of 10 makes sense because it is right on the first line down from the top. The 36 conductive also makes sense because it is about halfway between the third and fourth vertical line. Since the coil is isolated on that target, it provides a TID of 10/36. The other target is not under the center of the coil, but you just passed it because it left a Target trail. And judging by the grid location, it has a ferrous value of 11 and a conductive value of 12. If you swept back to that target, the TID would change to represet the 11/12 when you centered over it. And you would now have a target trail left to represent the first target. In the second picture, the target directly under the "hot spot" of the coil is providing both a grid location and the TID number of 12/36. If you're in the US, it is likely a penny. The other target that you passed over is likely iron, as the grid location indicates a highly ferrous target. If you moved your coil to center on what appears to be iron, you should get a TID of approx 31/42. And the previous target would be represented by the trace left on the grid only because it is not the one you are centered over. HH Randy

The "bullseye" represents the target you isolated under the coil.

If you worked the coil properly, it is probably directly under the center at this point in time.

The TID number appearing at the top of the smartscreen represents the ferrous and conductive values of that "bullseye" target.

The object at the bottom of the Smartscreen represents another target you passed over, but not currently under the center of the coil.

The "Target Trace" tells you that you've passed over one target while getting to the other one.

If you want to know the TID number for the other target, move the coil to isolate it, and center the coil over it.

Right - I've read - re-read - then read again the above statement/post. I've even broken it down into a line by line passage to make it easier. Surely everything that the "Target Trace" shows you has been "HEARD" in your headphones in the form of an accepted or rejected target?

Which leads me to the question I want to ask before I even consider buying one of these machines - has there been a "substantial" improvement in the recovery speed between targets?

If this question has already been answered elsewhere my apologies but there's that much hype it's unbelievable

Your missing the point - my question concerns recovery speed

Nope not missing your point, see this post by Randy.

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?86,1702492,1702492#msg-1702492

Aha! very clever, but that's made my mind up - will not be buying one.

Digger, thank you for that excellent information. The quotes ExIINut put in bold were exactly what I was looking for to help answer my questions about it's separation abilites. This is the kind of information I needed to help me decide if I will sell off a few things and buy one. I feel I am closer to a decision now one way or the other. Now I await reading more on any better ID at depth ability it may have in most common ground conditions (like my soil), and not just in really bad ones where it's extra ground balancing feature does indeed appear to help ID at depth. Once I fill up on that last bit of questions I'll be able to make my decision.

Based on what I've read and videos I've watched thus far (that could very well change as I see more) I'm inclined to believe that a good machine using a comparable or better DD coil should be able to isolate and ID those targets. Metal detecting requires coil movement and any experienced hunter knows to first listen for any hint of high tone among the lows, and then to stop and wiggle individualy over said targets to see what each one is. "If you want to know the TID number for the other target, move the coil to isolate it, and center the coil over it." That statement helped clearify two of the questions I had in my mind, but every one of the above things that ExpIInut put in bold carry a lot of impact on the questions I had when I read them very carefully.

So I thank everybody for their input and the back and fourth discussions. Especially to Digger for putting up with many probing questions from those of us that just have to get things nailed down before deciding to buy one.

To bad they can't take your metal detecting skills and put them in a machine since you can do everything the machine can do already with your ear. Call it the CH1515. LOL Can't wait to you "fil up on that lst bit of questions " so you can make your decision. We're all waiting with baited breath.....

 

[Critterhunter]

You know, if you do a little looking around I'm not the first one to be asking these questions, but I'll just make a few simple points and keep it cool like that..

Why is it that anybody who asks some skeptical questions and has some "concerns" they want addressed is automatically attacked? We are talking about a good chunk of money here, and until MANY of us get some very detailed and clear answers we ain't spending a dime. No amount of trying to shame or smear us is going to change that.

I saw somebody make a joke about walking into a Ferrari dealer and bashing the cars or people who can afford them. You're missing the point. Big difference is many of us can afford that car, but just because we can doesn't mean we don't want to weigh our options REAL careful like in terms of what else is out there. For instance, how does that Ferrari compare to another car with the right tires (or coil in this case) on it performance wise, before we decide to buy it or not. If for instance a Mustang GT can do the same job with a $200 performance mod then that's a good chunk of money to be saved over buying the Ferrari.

If that's something to be mocked and made ashamed of then I'm more than willing to take that heat, as I'm sure many others are as well...But are too afraid to stick their neck out. Until I and others get SOLID answers to our questions we're not taking our wallet out. There is too much at stake to just do that without some very careful investigation. If I can get some solid clear answers to the two only things I care about then that's when my money comes out. Those being separation and depth. Everything else is bells and whistles to me. I think I already know where the separation thing pans out. I'm just waiting to hear about the depth now.

 

[lambo1]

Critter,
I get your point but if you are so skeptical, why keep challenging
the few that have tried the machine?
Keep your questions/concerns to yourself until you get field
info from the many users that will be driving that Ferrari.

This isn't directed at you, but anyone that would question what the
machine can and can't do.

I think the mods have been pretty patient but push can easily be turned
into shove.

Lambo

 

[Critterhunter]

The moderators have been more than patient and I thank them for that, but that doesn't change the fact that many of us have many more questions before deciding to spend our money. I'm sorry, but if you agreed to field test this machine and then share your findings on the web then that's just the nature of the job, isn't it? You've got to put up with redundant and yes even skeptical questions or concerns because that's the whole point of being a representative of a product after all, isn't it? Having done plenty of lousy jobs in my life, I can sympathize...You just bite your upper lip and get the lousy job done.

 

[BarnacleBill]

Critter,

A. There's a strong possibility that even if you wanted to purchase one now, that most are already spoken for.
B. Within two weeks many users should have them in hand and will be doing all sorts of experimenting and sharing that on the forum, all it requires on your part is a little patience.

The one resident field tester on this forum has a life outside of metal detecting, and as such doesn't have the time to run every test that hundreds of posters would request. Now you may not like it that your particular needs are not being immediately met by him, but I've not seen you offer to send him a Franklin for his troubles. Keep in mind whether you purchase one or not is no skin of off his back because he's not getting a commission, and neither am I, we're just a volunteers. And just for the record, neither of us are dealers or writing books to profit from.

BB

 

[Steve O]

When we are in high trash or high iron/nail areas.... that dictates the swing speed and detecting pace, or it should. We slow way down naturally, so our brains can comprehend what we hear or see. In that slow pace we will have plenty of time to look/glance at the screen. Therefore, I think Minelab has a real winner with multiple target capability's.

 

[Critterhunter]

While signing up to field test a machine probably doesn't mean you are required (?) to answer questions about it on the net, if you do decide to expose yourself to that kind of interaction on the web then be careful what you ask for, and God bless you for doing that.