Id Excel,CoinStrike or CZ7A??

[mtdoramike]

and both are deeper then the CZ's.

 

[Ron from Michigan]

To end this thread my choice is CZ7AP even with its weak points almost everyone likes this detector.I probably should have put more time on the Coin Strike. Thanks for the advice. Ron

 

[mtdoramike]

I should have put more time on the Coinstrike. If you look through forums on Coinstrike info, you will find where several of us Coinstrike owners state, "THE COINSTRIKE TAKES MOST 40-50 HOURS TO LEARN IT" so if your not willing to invest the time then I would consider another machine because then that person is doing an injustice to a detector.

Funny thing is most that sell or trade their detectors without giving them enough time will eventually buy or trade for another and will do the same thing. I have seen guys who have owned two and even three Coinstrike at different time only to sell them after a few hours because it's not a quick enough machine for them to pick up on.

Which is definately ashame because if they put enough time on the machine and really grasp what the Coinstrike can do, they mostlikely wouldn't ever sell it or trade it unless exigent circumstances forced them to, especially relic hunters. The Coinstrike is reported to be one of the best relic machines going, but I don't do much relic hunting, it's also one of the best beach machines on the market, I rank it up there with the CZ5, CZ3d, CZ70 & Quattro easily.

But like all good machines, the Coinstrike does have a weak spot, which unlike the CZ's with it's affinity for a little iron, the Coinstrike has problems around elecrical interefernce and round objects like bottle caps.

 

[Ron from Michigan]

Mike I talked to people who said the same-thing about the Coin Strike. I appreciate the information. If the opportunity does present it self with a disgruntle C$ user who wants to part with his CoinStrike at a bargain price I'll give it another try. Thanks Ron

 

[Mike Hillis]

Takes a little work sometimes. Even dropping sensitivity and threshold settings still allows great depth.

Deepest thing I've used to date.

HH

 

[Bill W.]

But, how about the user like me who put in way passed 150+ hours on the C$ and it still couldn't equal my 3D or my Explorer. I've brought up this point to you before. There are definitely places that the C$ will get some serious depth. But, my area for what ever reason wasn't one of them. Our soils must be polar opposites because most of the machines that you get good depth with down in Florida aren't deep up here in my area of PA. I've hunted and compare signals with the Garrett 1500 and 2500. There's no comparision up here my Explorer and 3D are a good 2 inches deeper than both. When I had my C$ it was a very similar story. I am definitely no bashing any of the machines you own. Only pointing out the difference in our soil. The other problem that I had with the C$ was it hit on hot rocks. The problem is mentioned in the manual. The rocks IDed in the 20's. For me, there was no getting around that issue. I tried everything under the sun that was suggested on these forums. My point is that there's no one machine that can do it all the best. There are areas that the Explorer is sub-par and areas that the 3D is too. Saying that everyone that has got rid of the C$ didn't spend the time is not an accurate statement.

-Bill

 

[ghzcss]

Bill W., I do not own nor ever used a C$. But, I agree 100% with you on the comparison process. Unless you live in the same place. Under the same conditions. And, have the same hunting skill, type of hunting, and all like basically the same features. You just can't say one is better than another. I had a Quattro MP. Was absolutely great in the sand at the beach. But, in the Kentucky soil conditions. I could not get near the depth with it as I do the CZ-3D or CZ-5. Pretty much the same results with GTI 1500 as the Quattro MP. And my Prizm V did just as well as the Quattro MP and GTI 1500. Only draw back. Both Fishers are terrible with electrical interference. If you are very close to high voltage lines. Give it up. So, I know everyone can't afford several machines. So, the best thing to do. Is find as many detectorists in your area that you can. And, ask them what they use and have used. Find out what they like and dislike about each. Just because they didn't like one machine, because of say, the metering system. But, it performed well. It may be the perfect machine for you. Bottom line, there is no perfect machine for every condition. If there was. There would only be one machine, from one manufacture. There are dozens of manufactures and hundreds of models. And, probably always will be. So, just find out what works best for you. In your area. And start digging the good stuff.

HH Mike

 

[Bill W.]

Mike,

It's amazing even around my area how much the soil varies. Fortunely, I am have more than one machine... Currently, I own an Explorer, CZ-3D, Teknetics T2, and Minelab X-Terra 50. My Explorer and 3D battle back and forth in depth. One site I go the Explorer is deep. The next site the 3D may be deeper. I usually buy one or two machines per year to try out. If they're nothing different than I have or just plain aren't that deep I sell them. So far, the T2 is doing very well. I will probably end up keeping it. I've not had the X-Terra 50 out in the field much yet. The C$ I kept for 2 years just because wanted to give it more than an ample chance to get to know the machine. I usually try to stay away from negative comments about any machine. But, most former C$ users being lumped into one catagory wasn't accurate. That was my main purpose on posting.

-Bill

 

[mtdoramike]

sticking it out for 150 hours of use. Now, how many C$'s have you owned and where are you located? The point I'm making is, most who have bought and sold the Coinstrike for various reasons will mostlikely buy or trade for another Coinstrike thinking that maybe they didn't give it enough time and unfortunately these are the same folk who will sortly there after sell it or trade it off again. I will make sure the next time I make this statement,To POST Bill is excluded from this statement so untwist your underwear. Aint no body tryin to make you get married or trying to send you to Iraq. It's just an opinion, which I'm full of.

Yes, our soils are mostlikely different as is most every where, that's why one machine won't do it all or at least we like to think that so it gives us an excuse to buy new machines all the time.

 

[Bill W.]

First off, my underwear is not in a twist... you get twisted when someone offers a counterpoint that has put in the hours on the C$. I've owned one C$ and that was enough for me. I am not stupid enough to buy another as I am very sure in my abilites. But, as I said in the last post YOU misrepresent the C$ as being awesome in all soils. If it's not the 'best thing since sliced bread' it's the USER who didn't spend the time to 'get to know' the C$. That is plain BS. I live in PA and there's plenty of 200+ old sites that are loaded with hot rocks that the C$ hits on. It's my obligation to let people who live in similar areas know my opinion (which I will continue to do) just as it is for you to voice your opinion. If you doubt I spent time on the C$ send a PM to Jackpine Savage. He offered a ton of good advice and remembers my problems. He probably got tired of typing help. I am definitely not a Fisher basher or even a C$ basher. Only offering a counter opinion on the C$. The CZ's are tremendous in my soil. I am also going to buy an Edge at some point. For me, it's not all about depth so if the Edge isn't deep but handles iron well and it doesn't hit on hot rocks in my soil it will it will be a keeper for me. Like I said, I'll continue to offer counter points irregardless.

-Bill

 

[Mirage]

Thanks for your input Bill W. Now I have to buy an Explorer to add to my growing list of detectors. I do like the Coinstrike - it is fun in certain situations. But also I question it's depth in some conditions. You know even in a "local" area soil conditions vary tremendously. I can search one site that has rich humus soil and then drive 15 minutes and battle minerilized soil with hot rocks. Best is to have lots of detectors.

Mirage

 

[mtdoramike]

now, maybe another machine will come along that I like as much or more. I never claimed that the Coinstrike would work in all soils or conditions nor that it is a magic wand. I only pointed out that most who buy a Coinstrike and sell it, do so because they don't like it now, from the folks or previous Coinstrike owners that I talked to (excluding you) sold or traded the Coinstrike stating that they didn't like it or it was a difficult machine to grasp. And yes, most that I spoke or conversed with readily admitted that they probably didn't spend enough time getting to know or learn the Coinstrike.

I didn't say everyone who sold or traded the Coinstrike, I said most. You chose to throw your dog into this hunt. Now, I don't know you from Adam, but you sure seem to be a might High Strung. So, if you prefer, If I see a post of yours I will make sure and keep my opinion to myself and not post and you can do like wise on my post or we can continue to have some fun with this tit for tat.

 

[Bill W.]

is your post and any of the threads I post on never include the KNOWN issues with the C$. If you would include those issues you would near to never hear from me. Otherwise, I'll do tit for tat till I am blue... that's fine with me. I've always loved a good debate in college and still do. I am going to post if those issues are not represented in posts. If you look back on post on the Explorer forum I've offer counterpoints there too. So, it's just not the C$. In my soil, the Explorer and 3D battle back and forth on depth and I want buyers to know that. Do you realize what the thread went like after I posted that on an Explorer forum? BUT, it was all about principal and helping the less fourtuate than me. I am lucky enough to be able to buy whatever machine I want without exception. Not alot of people have that ability. I remember the days when I couldn't do that. I would have been extremely pi**ed if I would have spent hard earned money on a machine that was represented with no issues. As far as taking it to a personal level saying 'Now, I don't know you from Adam, but you sure seem to be a might High Strung.'. That's a sure sign of a poor agruement on the issues at hand. I've never taken any of my posts on any issues to name calling or such. Look at the post above and you'll soon realize why I post my counterpoints on ANY machine. The average user deserve to know those issues BEFORE he/she buys a machine not after. Take it for what it is as I have no brand loyality in voicing my opinions. Go tit for tat or represent the fact for what they are... it doesn't matter to me.

-Bill

 

[mtdoramike]

for some reason, I rub you the wrong way and I think you use the Coinstrike as an outlet to lash out at me. So now, I think your the one who has tried to make this personal. Have I written you a speeding ticket or arrested one of your cousin-in-laws? I like the Coinstrike, in my area it's great, the 1500 is great CZ5 is great, CZ70 is great, NOW that CZ3d you speak so highly of, I owned one and traded it for a 1500 and never looked back. You want the down sides of the CZ3d since you aint pointing any out, it's the worst machine I have ever used for my style of hunting, my nickel count went to zero when I used it. Nickels never hit in hi coin on my machine, gold never hit in hi tone on my machine like it was reported to do.

I dug more trash with that machine then with any other. Do I bash the CZ3d, NOPE. Some like it and for what it was designed for, which is older siies, I'm sure it excels.

Now, you want bad points with the Coinstrike, LIKE I HAVE ALWAYS POSTED, it's a difficult machine to learn and electrical inferference affects it. These are the only bad points that I'm aware of, because unlike you, I like the Coinstrike and it works great for me. This is my TAT

Now, it's your TIT

 

[Bill W.]

As I've said, I represent ALL machines equally. I've posted about the 3D being horrible in modern areas... It's definitely not recommended. I've NOT spoken so highly of the 3D in all of my posts. There are place I plain won't take my 3D. It sucks. LOOK back on my posts. I invite you to offer counterpoints on the 3D... that is what I want. It makes a more informed buyer so they know exactly what they are buying. That is a point you choose to ignore in my previous post. Like I said I am not bashing the C$ as I do offer the counterpoints on every machine I know well. Opinion and observations isn't a bad thing! I don't have anything personal for you or you 'rub' me the wrong way. Just that your post lack of counterpoints on the C$. Like I said, we're polar opposites in soil. My 3D in my soil is a nickel killer. I've dug nickels in the 9-10 inch range and that's saying something up here. BUT, like I've said on this forum and the CZS forum that the 3D does horrible in modern areas. A $200 machine I owned a good many years ago didn't hit on hot rocks like the C$. I've always tried to post a balanced view on machines even if I've never experienced those PARTICULAR problems.

-Bill

 

[mtdoramike]

I won't usually point out short comings of a machine unless directly asked. because these forums are supported by dealers who sell the various machine and they dis-like someone down grading a machine. So I try to stick to the strong point + adding in a few short comings, like the Coinstrike I try to always post when talking about the Coinstrike, that although a great machine it has it's faults such as a pretty stiff learning curve. Now some claim to have picked it up right away, But I on the other hand took 40-50 hours to warm up to it. I would rather tell someone "Look, it can be a difficult machine to learn so if your not willing to make a committment of 40 hours or so then I would probably consider a different machine".

I too can pretty much buy any machine I want. I had a Quattro that I just got rid of. It was a great machine, one of the if not the deepest machine that I have ever used with the 10" DD coil. But it did not fit most of my hunting style. I prefer a fairly quick swing speed and target response + light weight. The Quattro just wasn't doing it for me. Although a great machine in it's own right, but not a park or School yard machine at least not for me anyway. It's was awsome on the beach, but the weight killed me. I have a heart problem so the lighter the unit, the better. This is why I chose the Xterra 70 as one of my main detectors, for the salt beaches as well as quick swing speed and light eight at only 2.9 pound. Is there a down side to the XT70, I'm sure there is, but with only about 3-4 hours on the machine, I aint really found any yet. To me the depth would be equal to the CZ's in coin mode.

GT&i1500, great all around machine, I've even found it to be good at the beach. The depth is about the same as the CZ's in Jewelry mode. Downsides to the 1500, I'm sure there are some trivial ones that I can;t think of off hand. it can be a tad heavy, but the battery pod can be hip mounted which is the way I use it most of the time to lessen the weight. I have found more silver coins & jewelry with the GTi then I have with any of my other machines combined even the C$.

 

[Bill W.]

While I appreciate the dealers/people who sponser these forum I think the pros/cons should be presented equally. I show my support to the sponsers by buying my machines from them. The problem with a SOME forums run buy dealers is the post are heavily censored by the moderator. On some sites it might as well be 'state run television' from the former USSR. There are some places were dealers moderating a forum plain doesn't work as they won't allow anything negative to be posted on their selection of machines. I am glad to see that this forum is hardly ever censored except when posts go to name calling and pointless posts. If the moderator or dealer disliked my posts I am sure I would have had posts deleted before... which has never happened. If I were a dealer I would rather have a well informed buyer. A well informed buyer tends to be more satisfied with their purchase. In this day and age any salesman/dealers are better off to present the facts because with the internet there is information and counterpoints available all over the place. If a dealer is straight forward with known issues on a machine that will make me alot more likely to buy from them again. I really wish my C$ would have worked out. It's a very likeable machine with a few shortcoming that need to be known. The list of what I liked about the C$ far out number what I didn't like about the machine. It's just that what I disliked about the C$ pretty much rendered the C$ useless in old sites. Bad thing you pay $800+ for a new C$. Think back to when you could only afford one machine since you can pretty much afford any machine you want like me. If (with your one machine) you would discovered a problem that makes it pretty much useless in your area wouldn't you be disgusted. Wouldn't you even be more disgusted if people that gave you advice on the purchase just left out known issues that would have affect your purchase. I guess where we differ is how much a bad point on any machine should be brought up. I believe any issues that affect the enjoyment of the machine should be brought up... irregardless of how often.

-Bill

 

[mtdoramike]

and bad points of a machine especially when your dropping $800.00 on a detector that will quickly drop to about $600.00 if your lucky when it leaves the dealer. But I choose to do this mainly by private email or PM versus the forum or unless I'm asked certain points about a machine. As with you, hot rocks are a major issue, I haven't ever met a hot rock in my life, so I can't speak on that issue, Now as far as highly mineralized soil, I can't really speak on that either because in Florida our soil is quite tame compared to most areas, this is why Fixed ground balance machine do so well here like the GT&i1500. Now I have heard that the C$ does better then most in hot ground, but I can't really speak on that issue either for not having first hand knowledge.

I leave those issues such as those up to guys like yourself who live in hot areas. But I do know that from the all the guys who I have conversed with, your the first who has had a problem with the Coinstrike because of performance issues. The complaints I have heard are, I didn't like it because it was to difficult to grasp, to noisy, (I agree with this statement) when I first got mine for the first 15 hours I wanted to wrap it around a tree because it was so noisy. Also they have said it was their cup of tea for various reasons, such as weight, don't like digital, don't like the tones etc.

Unfortunately, I have found that it really makes no big difference how much you tell some one the bad points ahead of time, once some have made up their mind, then they go for it anyway, just like me with the Quattro, I knew ahead of time about the bad points of the machine for my type of hunting, but got one anyway and just verified what I had been told.

Like the holy grail of detectors the Explorer, I mostlikely will never own one, because It's hard enough for me to justify to my self spending $800.00 for a machine to find pocket change, but if they were to revamp the Explorer into a lighter machine such as the Xterra series, I might reconsider. I'm sure it's a good machine, but I don't like a machine that's to heavy for me to use for long periods of time. But hey, that's me not you or others who are in better health and can handle the heavy machines, now would I list this as a minus on the list for the Explorer or Quattro, NO, why, because that only a personal issue I have with the machine and don't feel that it's a negative for the machine for others. But, if someone asked, about the weight issue then I figure they must be concerned about it for the sa,e reasons as me so then I would give them my view point on that.

 

[Bill W.]

I think we've agreed to a point... The particular problem I had with hot rocks is now stated in the manual. So, apparently I am not the only one who has experince that problem. I'm just one of the only ones to speak up about it. Which can make it appear that I have a 'score to settle' with someone or something. But, in fact only want buyers to be aware of the problem even if it is isolated in some cases. I know what you mean about detector weight. I bought a T2 and X-Terra 50 two months or so ago. I've been using them alot. If I pick up my 3D after I been using either new machine it feels so unbalanced. My Explorer feels like it has a barbell on the end... But, after 10 minutes I don't even notice it anymore. But, I can see where weight would be an issue for some. Although, I have posted in the past about the Explorer weight can be a problem. Isn't the 1500 on the heavy side? I though it was dang close to the Explorer in weight. Maybe I am thinking of the 2500.

-Bill

 

[mtdoramike]

but with the battery pod on the 1500 hip mounted, it brings the weight to a little over 3 pounds, which isn't to bad. The Quattro with batteries was closer to 5 pounds. The XT70 is like 2.9 pounds, and I think the T2 is about 3.5 pounds or something like that, but not sure, which from what I understand, it actually seems lighter then it looks and for the big coil it has, that's saying something.