i really need your opinion..

[erikk]

i have an older sovereign so maybe the pinpoint is different. on mine it narrows the signal to locate the target. i don't see how hunting in this mode will give you a much wider signal.

AMEN

 

[Buried Crap NJ]

I thought this was about an Excalibur?
While Sovereign GT's and Excalibur's are nearly the same, they are different. The Sovereign All metal mode,and Pin Point mode are different and no you should not hunt in PP with a Sovereign. That said, you can and many do hunt in all metal mode with a Sovereign. Now with the Excalibur it's call PP mode and its not the same as the Sovereign PP mode, it's really all metal mode.Most here already know this there are a few that will get really confused.

 

[chuck ky]

after i posted my comment i remembered that it was about the excalibur but i left it up because i thought they were basically the same detector just adapted for different uses.

 

[Critterhunter]

My suggestion try using in discriminate a couple of days and make your own judgement.For inland I use discriminate,which is the only way to go and will give more depth.LOL if you use PP in my parks bring a garbage truck.For those who use PP at least masking won't be a problem.I would have kept my Whites TDI for this type of hunting.The Sovereign is what it is but to hunt in PP is like being color blind only seeing black and white.Good Luck

That's the way i feel...that it's a sin to use the best discrimination detector on the market (in that it has awesome ground cancelling abilities in discriminate) in a mode that doesn't have the ground tracking abilities enabled when in PP. On the other hand, if the Excaliber uses the All Metal tracking mode of a GT and not the GT's PP mode, then that might make sense...in that it does have a form of ground balance. on other hand, tracking will track out deep targets if you sweep over it several times. Confusing. I think even the Excaliber manual says ground balance is disabled in PP mode?

 

[Minelab50]

Hello Maureen
Just read your post, here in NE fl we have very little black sand and/or mineralization and you can hunt PP all the time if one likes. If your getting results stay with it. I have two specific beaches I hunt PP because there are no vendors and they have very little trash. These sites also have the possibility of 1700's items and want that extra depth. Stay with whats best in your area and your comfort zone.

good diggin.....................randy

 

[Neil]

My suggestion try using in discriminate a couple of days and make your own judgement.For inland I use discriminate,which is the only way to go and will give more depth.LOL if you use PP in my parks bring a garbage truck.For those who use PP at least masking won't be a problem.I would have kept my Whites TDI for this type of hunting.The Sovereign is what it is but to hunt in PP is like being color blind only seeing black and white.Good Luck

That's the way i feel...that it's a sin to use the best discrimination detector on the market (in that it has awesome ground cancelling abilities in discriminate) in a mode that doesn't have the ground tracking abilities enabled when in PP. On the other hand, if the Excaliber uses the All Metal tracking mode of a GT and not the GT's PP mode, then that might make sense...in that it does have a form of ground balance. on other hand, tracking will track out deep targets if you sweep over it several times. Confusing. I think even the Excaliber manual says ground balance is disabled in PP mode?

Do you have an excal or even the excal manual critter, or are these yet again, just words?

 

[Critterhunter]

Ummm.....Speaking of "words", Neil...Look at the end of my signature file...You see that 1835 bust dime? I dug that and a large cent in the same hole with an Excal while land hunting. Same deal to the other guy I won't name that a while back said I wasn't allowed to give opinions on the 8" BBS coil because I never used one. Sure have, on the Excal. What a boat anchor....But I can see why some would opt for it over the Sunrauy S5 for a small coil because it is real small not being a true 8" coil.

As for the manual thing about ground balance being disabled in pp mode, did you not notice the question mark at the end of that remark. I assume you know I was asking a question then and not making a statement?....Like I am asking here as well?

And PS- At least in my soil the Excal DOES NOT give more depth in PP. I am, however, interested in the possibilities of hunting with a GT in PP or one of the all metal modes at worked out land sites. PP doesn't seem as deep to me as discriminate, but All Metal Fixed might be. Even if it's not, it might have potential to sound off to targets that are masked by iron badly. Also, I hear there is a cut off point in all metal around nickle where the audio changes. Want to test all this this spring an will write a report on it.

 

[surfman]

I have an Excallibur II 10".It's about a year old and I cant find where it says anything about the ground balance being disabled in pinpoint in the manual. I think she's using an Excal. Correct me if i'm wrong.

 

[Buried Crap NJ]

Critterhunter, I not sure what part of the country you hail from. But maybe someone that lives close by can give you a demo on these two machines? It's truly an eye opener when a seasoned veteran hunter can go out on your own turf and target targets in All metal/PP and you can't even hear them in discriminate no matter how hard you try. Then tell you before they dig what's coming out of the ground. Enough proof to me, to have changed the type of way I hunt with these machines. Yes I still use discriminate.
These guys know gold from silver, coins from junk and continue to pass up all that stuff we dig in our hopes to finding gold and silver.
And while a 1835 bust dime is a great find, boasting about it while it was sitting next to a huge hunk of copper isn't.
Dig that same coin at 18 inches and I'll do a happy dance with you.
I have been at this since 1974 and while I know some of my machines so well, the Excalibur and the GT I am just learning and will take advice and read post by others all day in my quest to be more versed with them. I'll keep an open mind and It would go along way if you did too!

And if you kept your post to a small novel I might just read one of them completely! Not including your test and comparisons post. These need to be long by nature of the information provided.

 

[synthnut]

BC NJ,
I have been down to the Jersey shores and have hunted for a day at a time every now and then , and I am no expert in the area , but I will say this ....When I did a trade deal in NJ , and got my Excal in the trade , we went to the beach to try it out .....I thought it was broken !!.....It was a good thing that there were 2 other guys there with machines for me to compare the Excal to because I heard NOTHING !!.....It was DEAD QUIET !!..... No Iron , no targets, no NOTHING !!...... I probably walked 150 ft before I heard the slightest of noise out of the Excal ......Luckily , i looked at my buddys shrugging my shoulders and NEITHER of them had a peep coming out of their machines either ....... Testing the Excal on various targets in the 2 differetnt modes , the PP mode seems to be deeper, and I can surely see why you would opt to go in this mode on your beaches ....Why discriminate if there is nothing there at times to discriminate ? ......I would probably dig just about everything in this case and a Pulse machine might even work well down there ..... Granted , this was probably just a heavily 'sanded in" situation , but if the area is like this on a regular basis , I can FULLY understand how you would hunt in P.P. .....Come up to the NY beaches and go into PP mode ..... There are area's that you could hunt all day , and if you are gridding them in PP, you will have grid approx a 10 ft x 10ft area !!...... Between the Black Sand and the litter here in NY , this is what you would experience .... I still think that the way to hunt is dependant upon the area you are hunting in and the conditions that you are dealt ..... I have watched some of Joes ( Olebeechnut )YouTube vids and have watched some of GraveDiggerMax's vids also .....They are in Virginia and Florida .....Their beaches are similar to yours there in NJ ..... Targets are not scattered all over the place ....You have to do some walking to get to a target .... In NY we can take one step and have many targets to choose from .....Too bad they're not all good ones, but targets just the same .....The right way to hunt is what is right the for the area , and the individual ...... I'm sure if I hunted NJ more , I would probably opt to hunt in PP mode , and would also hook an additional amp up like Olebeechnut does also !!...... Thanks for listening ....Jim

 

[Neil]

Ummm.....Speaking of "words", Neil...Look at the end of my signature file...You see that 1835 bust dime? I dug that and a large cent in the same hole with an Excal while land hunting. Same deal to the other guy I won't name that a while back said I wasn't allowed to give opinions on the 8" BBS coil because I never used one. Sure have, on the Excal. What a boat anchor....But I can see why some would opt for it over the Sunrauy S5 for a small coil because it is real small not being a true 8" coil.

As for the manual thing about ground balance being disabled in pp mode, did you not notice the question mark at the end of that remark. I assume you know I was asking a question then and not making a statement?....Like I am asking here as well?

And PS- At least in my soil the Excal DOES NOT give more depth in PP. I am, however, interested in the possibilities of hunting with a GT in PP or one of the all metal modes at worked out land sites. PP doesn't seem as deep to me as discriminate, but All Metal Fixed might be. Even if it's not, it might have potential to sound off to targets that are masked by iron badly. Also, I hear there is a cut off point in all metal around nickle where the audio changes. Want to test all this this spring an will write a report on it.

this is from a post you made a day or so ago in this thread: "The manual states PP mode is HAS NO FORM OF GROUND BALANCE. That said, PP will sound off to targets when the microscopic iron content in the ground and some minerals cause discriminate to dicriminate out the target. I have only hunted one beach where pp hit targets better".
so this is indeed a statement and to later put a question mark on the same remark as if your not sure just makes one wonder if your talking from experience or repeating stuff youve read somewhere. I would hope you know the difference between the two.
anyone who has used a Sov GT and actually run it in both pinpoint and the tracking/fixed all metal mode surely knows the difference and capabilities/limitations compared to the disc mode.
you also state that you "hear" there is a cutoff point in all metal around nickle where the audio changes. that statement says you dont know, which means you havent used it, which adds to the point of us banging back and forth about this, as to why your even making statements and suggestions about this when you havent used it yourself? I honestly do not know why you do this but certainly you have posted many times your "opinion" on the all metal modes and yet here your stating you dont know. yeah, thats real confusing.
And since youve hunted an excal you should "know" it shares the same pinpoint mode as the GT but does not have its tracking/fixed all metal mode. Its both clearly labeled on the excal what it has and using it would show you also.
When minelab introduced the GT, they touted the "added" new all metal tracking mode, not a replacement of the prior all metal pinpointing mode found on the prior sovs. they kept that.
in the GT manual it says the disc mode uses digital filtering to compensate for ground effects and although not mentioned, the pinpoint mode does as well. a simple walk from dry sand to wet sand at the ocean using pinpoint mode in any of the sovs or excal will show the user this. sometimes the manuals are not very clear, or maybe I should say most times. Thats why Andys and Clives books have been so helpful to minelab users.
if you look at the Elites manual, it tells you about using the pinpoint mode as an all metal mode, but the excals manual more refers to it as the pinpointing mode. so the book says one thing, but actual experience may teach us something else. sorry, now Im rambling.

 

[Rick(ND)]

Jim,

I know what you are talking about as I have had a chance to detect on a NJ beach with my Explorer a few years back with a guy that used to post on here called Houndaug. he was a great guy as i never hunted a beach before and learned a few things from him. One was that fine sand gets into everything and can jamb up the shafts real easy, but the main thing was i thought my Explorer got broke as it ran with no noise other than a threshold. I had to stop and throw down a coin just to see if it was working many times and learned I had to switch to iron mask with no disc just to know my Explorer was working and when i got a signal I would just dig it to have something to do. Will say I had a signal that I thought sounded about 2-3 inches deep and couldn't find so Houndaug came over to help and it was over 12 inches deep and a new quarter. This I can see where all metal or pinpoint on the Sovereign could work excellent, but for my land hunting I do it would not work unless it was made there were multi tone in pinpoint. On land test i have done here in ND disc will, go deeper for me as many of the weak change of tones i get in disc when going to all metal I get no signal. or ones I can hear when I switch to pinpoint to find the target.

 

[Neil]

Wow, havent even seen houndawgs name mentioned in a long long time. I sold him a stealth scoop years ago, he used to hunt the beaches up a little north of where I hunt them.
Rick I run both my Explorer and Etrac wide open except for the tiniest amount of iron mask, one or two bars at most. I get a quicker reset and eliminate the masking this way. I do dig my share of iron. On the beach its easier to do this as running the sov in all metal is easier also since the digging is so easy. You guys who hunt inland mostly, well thats another ballgame.

 

[Critterhunter]

I have used an Excal in the field even before owning a GT and also tested it extensively to put the PP mode thing to rest for a friend and I last spring. Never did it show greater depth in PP mode. Don't overstate the case for learning an Excal. There isn't much to learn or change in terms of controls. Even cranked up the volume to max because I've seen some argue that a low volume might cause you to not hear the change in threshold when using PP. Not even close in terms of depth. And, in terms of the GT, I have found that deep coins often won't sound off when I try to use PP to pinpoint for where to dig my plug. That's OK, because I prefer to use discriminate to PP deep coins in trash anyway these days. My two cents is that some of the percieved beliefs that PP is deeper are due to people's hearing. It can be easier to hear things in PP due to the nature of the audio.

Also, there should be a distinction here in terms of depth versus ability to sound off to a target. I have only found one beach where PP was able to hit targets harder...NOT DEEPER...Due to the microscopic iron content in the ground, which was causing discriminate to null out on targets here and there. PP was not deeper, but it did hit some items stronger.

Minelab states that the DISCRIMINATION mode uses digital filtering to nullify the ground signal. They also state that ground balance is disabled (at least for the GT) in PP mode. All metal uses conventional ground tracking/cancelling methods on the GT (otherwise there would be no need to set it!), which are not as effective in many soils as the active ground filtering in BBS discriminate mode. So then what are you telling me here...That the Excal uses a unique form of ground tracking in PP mode that is different from all three modes on the GT? There are forms of all metal that have no ability to ground balance. These are mainly throw backs to old technology. Are you saying it uses one of those? What I want to know is where exactly is the Excal getting it's magical ability to go deeper that the advanced filtering in discriminate can't keep up with? If it is using the same filtering as discriminate then I would expect the tones to also still be active.

 

[Neil]

I have used an Excal in the field even before owning a GT and also tested it extensively to put the PP mode thing to rest for a friend and I last spring. Never did it show greater depth in PP mode. Don't overstate the case for learning an Excal. There isn't much to learn or change in terms of controls. Even cranked up the volume to max because I've seen some argue that a low volume might cause you to not hear the change in threshold when using PP. Not even close in terms of depth. And, in terms of the GT, I have found that deep coins often won't sound off when I try to use PP to pinpoint for where to dig my plug. That's OK, because I prefer to use discriminate to PP deep coins in trash anyway these days. My two cents is that some of the percieved beliefs that PP is deeper are due to people's hearing. It can be easier to hear things in PP due to the nature of the audio.

Also, there should be a distinction here in terms of depth versus ability to sound off to a target. I have only found one beach where PP was able to hit targets harder...NOT DEEPER...Due to the microscopic iron content in the ground, which was causing discriminate to null out on targets here and there. PP was not deeper, but it did hit some items stronger.

Minelab states that the DISCRIMINATION mode uses digital filtering to nullify the ground signal. They also state that ground balance is disabled (at least for the GT) in PP mode. All metal uses conventional ground tracking/cancelling methods on the GT (otherwise there would be no need to set it!), which are not as effective in many soils as the active ground filtering in BBS discriminate mode. So then what are you telling me here...That the Excal uses a unique form of ground tracking in PP mode that is different from all three modes on the GT? There are forms of all metal that have no ability to ground balance. These are mainly throw backs to old technology. Are you saying it uses one of those? What I want to know is where exactly is the Excal getting it's magical ability to go deeper that the advanced filtering in discriminate can't keep up with? If it is using the same filtering as discriminate then I would expect the tones to also still be active.

"So then what are you telling me here...That the Excal uses a unique form of ground tracking in PP mode that is different from all three modes on the GT? "

Ok so heres the last time, your really stuck in your own mind, its amazing you able to learn anything new at all about detector. Ive put this in writing here for you a number of times and you just spin off on your own thoughts.

1. the pinpoint mode and how it operates is the same on all the excaliburs and sovereigns. somehow this fact confuses you.

2. The Sov GT has an ADDITIONAL all metal tracking mode, this is in ADDITION to the pinpoint mode. This was the only new function on the GT since all other functions were on the past Sovereigns.

3. I spoke with Dick Schultz at Minelab when he was in the Las Vegas office several times, once about this and he confirmed the pinpoint mode was the same in the GT as the others. Please, give them a call and let us know what they say instead of what you "think" it is.

4. If you use the pinpoint mode in any of them at all, you would see that they are indeed the same, and we would not be going over and over this, which leads us back to what started this between us, that your just putting words up here, and they are not backed by experience, but by something youve read or copied from someone else, thus my statement of what your putting out here is "just words".

 

[synthnut]

A couple of things that I would like to comment on as far as the depth touted for various machines that has really blown me away when folks speak about them ....The Excal and the CZ-20/21 are sometimes spoken of in the same breath and depending on the area , or sand composition , they run pretty much neck and neck as far as depth is concerned .....Some make mention thtat the CZ likes iron , and other things that don't come to mind right now ...... The one thing that I have learned concerning both machines that I did not know was the fact that when they talk about each machine , and the depth that each one can attain, and that they are mostly pretty even, but they NEVER speak about HOW these depths are attained ...... When these machines are running deep, the CZ is in Turbo mode, and when a target is found , you can hear a faint tone ...Get ready to dig DEEEEEP !!.....What they DON"T tell you , is that if you want to dig the same target on the Excal , you are NOT hearing a tone, but more hearing a change in threshold !!.....THIS is why you hear about these guys digging DEEP targets with the Excal , like OleBeechnut , some of them will have amplifiers hooked up to the Excal to be able to hear that change in threshold to know there is a target that is DEEP !! ... This type of hunting works very well down in NJ too , and that is the reason that a lot of guys down that way will hunt in PP mode also ...... Since this is how these machines operate , for my area , I think that the CZ may work a little bit better in my area as there are not that many times where you just can't listen for a threshold change in the quiet of the hunt .....

Now you take this same scenario up in NY where there is more gargbage than the dump littered in the sand up here, and you have a better chance of seeing baby Jesus before you will hear a change in threshold looking for deep targets ......You better bring a pickup truck to get rid of all the trash up here if you expect to find targets down 15" or so ......Your machine will bounce off of more targets than you can imagine that will get in your way before you get too deep !!.... If you go out into the water , there are less targets and less trash , and you stand a better chance at finding deeper targets using PP mode ...... Jim

 

[Buried Crap NJ]

Sanded in isn't even close to what we have this winter. It just plain sucks. I understand that each place has its own rewards and pitfalls.
I am open to that kind of discussion.
What about the guy on you tube that hunts up on some NY beach. Every other coin he digs was either silver or or a buffalo, V nickle. He was chopping them out of the sand. I want to hunt there! When we posted this somebody know him from NY.
Check it out
http://directorzone.cyberlink.com/video/67560

 

[synthnut]

OK, not for nothing , but that beach that this guy was hunting had to have some serious wind blow to come anywhere NEAR finding coins like that laying on the top of the ground like that .....Either that , or the beach had to be under construction and the Dozers had to have scraped the surface down a good bit for coins like that to apear that old and so shallow ..... I hit one beach lke that this year ...I had a 2 day time frame that I was able to hunt it ....I got my 43 Silver half , a 1906 quarter and a BUNCH of Mercs , Buffalo's Wheat's , and even found a couple of memorials that REALLY thru me for a loop !!.....Jim

 

[OldBeechnut]

beach had to be under construction and the Dozers had to have scraped the surface down

Excellent guess, I know the hunter and the site, that is Connecticut and a old structure had just been dozed.

And I do agree about every detector having it's place, like the CZ20/21. Hunted a small lake/swimming hole this past fall, friend had a excal II 10 inch, I took the CZ20 8 inch..there were so many coins and trash he struggled with the excal in discriminate/allmetal. The cz kicked butt, 30+ nickles, some Pt's, and one gold, one old brass ring...dug very few other coins and if I did, they came up with the nickles. I'm sure I miss some silver coins, but I was there for the gold.

Critterhunter
Which is deeper Discriminate or All metal?

Words that I hunt by.......

But at the end of the day never forget that metal detecting is very site dependent and so what works well in one location will be lackluster in another. Use what works!

 

[thidbornau]

I am posting some pictures of a few of my finds since August please go to subject Maureen with Pin point.

HH Maureen..