I Did Some Testing With A Tiny 14k Gold Necklace

[WV62]

Okay I air balanced the Tejon, set the sensitivity just below the noise.

The chain's edge of disc was just a hair below the foil line.

The ring's edge of disc was just a hair above the high nickel line.

I am still open to try more testing if anybody wants.

Ron in WV

 

[Ken/CO]

Ron, Mark,
What I am debating here is that Mark stated that the detector needs to see a single link in the chain.
I am saying that a detector cannot not see a single link alone, but sees the chain as a whole or a series of links together.
(Let me qualify that statement by saying that finding a chain, it would typically be in somewhat of a clump, not laying in a straight line).
In a typical link chain, not like the one in your photo which doesn't have links, the links are too close for the detector to see them separately.
And soldering them together as Mark mentioned, wouldn't make a difference, because the links are too close together anyway.
I contend, that if you separated each of the links and placed them close, but not touching, the detector would see it as a mass.
Ken

 

[deliveryboy]

I have a request, could one of you make a video to show the audio of these machines(preferably the Compadre but all others are welcome) going over the chains, I have yet to find a chain and am wondering what exactly I'm listening for, Maybe this would help others here as well to clear up all the confusion, Thanks in advance.

 

[WV62]

Ron, Mark,
What I am debating here is that Mark stated that the detector needs to see a single link in the chain.
I am saying that a detector cannot not see a single link alone, but sees the chain as a whole or a series of links together.
(Let me qualify that statement by saying that finding a chain, it would typically be in somewhat of a clump, not laying in a straight line).
In a typical link chain, not like the one in your photo which doesn't have links, the links are too close for the detector to see them separately.
And soldering them together as Mark mentioned, wouldn't make a difference, because the links are too close together anyway.
I contend, that if you separated each of the links and placed them close, but not touching, the detector would see it as a mass.
Ken

Ken,

I guess what I am trying to do is prove to you that a detector is not seeing the whole mass of the chain.

As for this not being a typical chain like single ring in a ring. From looking at the pictures I can see why you would think that. But I took a close look and this chain is made up of a bunch of fine twisted rings. So I am going to have to say it is still typical, but a little more complicated to give it a different look. Notice the pictures in the clump, it has to be rings or it would be stiff.

Here is some more pictures of details as to how I did my testing. I loaded the test chain in a zip lock bag and swing the flat side of the bag in front of the coil. Please note that the chain is and was in a clump, not in a straight line. I started low on the disc and while swinging in front of the coil adjusted the disc up until the chain disc out and then fine tune the disc to the highest setting that I can still get the chain.

Now for the ring I did all the same.

So being the chain is heaver than the ring it has more mass and the dia of the clump is larger than the ring. You would think the chain should disc out higher than the ring, but that is not the case. The ring is higher by pretty close to full quarter turn of the disc control knob on my Tejon.

Ron in WV

 

[MarkCZ]

Ron, Mark,
What I am debating here is that Mark stated that the detector needs to see a single link in the chain.
I am saying that a detector cannot not see a single link alone, but sees the chain as a whole or a series of links together.
(Let me qualify that statement by saying that finding a chain, it would typically be in somewhat of a clump, not laying in a straight line).
In a typical link chain, not like the one in your photo which doesn't have links, the links are too close for the detector to see them separately.
And soldering them together as Mark mentioned, wouldn't make a difference, because the links are too close together anyway.
I contend, that if you separated each of the links and placed them close, but not touching, the detector would see it as a mass.
Ken

Not exactly what I meant!
If the detector can see at lest one link (the smallest part separate) then you would be more certain of finding more chains.
Because of how they lay the total mass could go up or down, but in Ron's case more than likely what was making the chain go as high as it did was the clasp.

The magnetic field would seem to follow the path of least resistance and that would be around each loop (or link) rather than taking in the whole length of the chain. So, from what I copied & pasted about the "eddy currents" the total mass is broken up in chains is because of the separate loops dominate the field and thus dividing it up (or breaking it up from one total)

If you find a pocket spill of twenty five copper pennies will the detector total the mass and come up to the ID range of something much larger?
No! not even if they are touching. But, if you melt them down and made one single chunk out of them then it would read MUCH higher into the discrimination range.

Melt Ron's chain down or weld it together with a gold weld and the eddy currents would more likely follow the whole chain because the resistance would be removed and the path of lest resistance wouldn't exist between the links and then it would raise the discrimination level of "IT" higher than the ring. But, then it wouldn't be a chain either.

If that chain that Ron has was just scrap gold and he cut off the lobster claw clasp it would most likely read a tad bit higher then the chain did with it attached.

No matter how you look at it, tiny gold chains are a problem.

Mark

 

[Neil]

Tejon and Vaquero hit small gold well but the disc has to be set where your also hitting bobby pins. its a trade off, something you have to live with, not really all metal hunting, but youve gotta get some small iron if your gonna get the smallest gold. thats in ground hunting, not testing.
Ive also found on tiny chains its the connecting links that the detector signals on. again in the dirt.

 

[lawbambam]

n/t

 

[Ken/CO]

Mark,
Questions: How can the detector detect only a part of the chain and not the rest of the chain? I've owned and own several detectors and have never found any detector that will do that.

Also, the detection result would depend on what the chain is made of, perhaps the chains is gold plated over another alloy, or is it solid gold? That would make a difference in it's detection.

Ken

 

[MarkCZ]

Ken, we will most likely have to agree to disagree on this one. (I assume were talking a gold chain, not filled or plated)

Like the penny spill with all the pennies touching, they all are in the detection field, but the processor doesn't total them to be one mass. As I understand it each one (penny or a link) spins off a report, so the processor receives a penny report, or a bunch of pennies to process at the same time.
Melt all the pennies down and the "Each One Effect" is done away with and the processor will report a single much larger mass. (chain vs ring).

In each link the eddy currents takes on a separate hula loop of its own, so within the total detection field the detector and its processor gets hit with a bunch of tiny targets instead of one single mass target.
The poor conductivity of the links just touching each other isn't enough to stop the eddy currents from just running each link in its much more conductive loop.

And in many cases the links can be so small that the "Each One" isn't enough for some detectors to pick up on at all (some detectors, not all).

The same thing should happen if you took 100 BB's and laid them in a small hole, they all would be in the detectors detection field at the same time, so in that way they are all seen by the detector, but each BB would spin off its own signal (report) then the processor is hit with a bunch of tiny targets, not one. Melt them into one copper disk and then the target become one much larger target. If your detector cannot detect a single BB, then its possible that it wouldn't hit on the nest of 100 (possibly???)

The detector has a greater ability to separate the chain than it does to join it together as one unit (just another way to put it)

Mark

 

[WV62]

The chains I used for my testing are 14k gold.

Just saying,

Ron in WV

 

[razerback408]

hi tabman and thanks for the tests i seen a vid with the Tesoro Silver uMax hiting on a gold chain did you try it in the test i know its a ed 120 but so is the golden i have a outlaw thinking the coils will work on it thanks

 

[tabman]

hi tabman and thanks for the tests i seen a vid with the Tesoro Silver uMax hiting on a gold chain did you try it in the test i know its a ed 120 but so is the golden i have a outlaw thinking the coils will work on it thanks

There's no response to the tiny gold necklace with the Silver