Menu
What's new
Find's Treasure Forums

Welcome to Find's Treasure Forums, Guests!

You are viewing this forums as a guest which limits you to read only status.

Only registered members may post stories, questions, classifieds, reply to other posts, contact other members using built in messaging and use many other features found on these forums.

Why not register and join us today? It's free! (We don't share your email addresses with anyone.) We keep email addresses of our users to protect them and others from bad people posting things they shouldn't.

Click here to register!

Need Support Help?

Cannot log in?, click here to have new password emailed to you

Changed email? Forgot to update your account with new email address? Need assistance with something else?, click here to go to Find's Support Form and fill out the form.

I am not singling anybody out, and this is meant in a nice way, but Bill Ladd

B

BarnacleBill

New member
is under the gun right now. First Texas has asked him to find any glaring problems or shortcomings in a very short period of time(one week) before release. He really doesn't have time to do comparisons and run performance tests against other detectors. While he can give general impressions based on machines he's familiar with, the very time consuming head to head comparisons are simply not possible with the kind of time frame he has.

I know everyone is very excited and wants to know how it compares to machines they have now, or are considering purchasing, but he really needs to be cut some slack.

HH
BarnacleBill
 
I think you noticed I started out my ? to Mister Ladd with a "do you mind". I then followed it up with a "if you have time" statement. Neither of which was a demanding statement.

I understand he is a busy man, as we all are, and has only had 1 week to use the machine but this is an internet forum for us to help each other learn. We are all here to ask questions and tell each other about our findings.

If Mr. Ladd doesn't have time or feel the need to answer so be it.
I dont think Mr. Ladd needs anyones help deciding on which questions to answer or not. I simply asked him a few questions to answer if HE wishes to do so. He has been very helpful with the new F75 and I think we all appreciate his help very much.

Oh, and this was meant in a nice way. ha ha

HH, Stoops
 
and from what has been written thus far, I would say what's the rush...half the country is still too cold and snow covered to be hunting anyway...I would think that when the weather fairs up a bit more in about a month that that would be the ideal time to release it and give the field testers the fair time to really check the new machines out...a BIG thanks to Bill Ladd et al for their efforts...JHMO and two zincs :)

P.S. Honestly, I'm not try to stir things up. It just seems a bit odd to me since if some serious problems would be found then it will just further delay the release but better now than later of course...Sometimes I wonder if the car manufacturers do the same thing?
 
Well actually this is a good time for northern testers to check how the machine acts in the cold. When you look at where most machines are now being developed they are in warm climates. They have very little opportunity to see if the LCD's will act correctly, or membrane switch panels will crack/split with repeated presses etc. at cold temps. i.e. What will happen to the F75 button when semi-frozen mud starts to build up around it at the control panel surface. Or let's say a plastic coil rod that strikes a rock at 90degF is fine, but at 10degF snaps off?

And even though internal test protocols are written it can very difficult to imagine sometimes what end users are going to do as far as button presses and menu selections. The machines being tested are probably pre-production or a production test run group and this is the kind of the pre-flight test.

As far as a rush, I wouldn't call it a rush, but they need to start re-couping some of the money that's been poured into the project. The detector business is a business to them and a hobby to us. There are some people in Texas right now enjoying sleepless nights waiting to hear back from the field testers and hoping only software based minor glitches are found, if at all. I would not be surprised if the F75 has an in-circuit serial programmable microprocessor or a USB port which would allow them to update software right on the production line.

HH
BarnacleBill
 
Bill Ladd has been working with a prototype F-75, so perhaps the asking for him to do test is out of the realm of it a bit.

This is a Prototype, not the final product. His field evaluation is to look for operational problems, not to test A against B.

The other question that comes to mind, what make anyone think that he has access to the models you want him to test against. I read one post that asked him to check it against some Minelab product. I doubt he has ever used a Minelab product, never mind owns one. Just what kind of test do you think he could perform ?

He's only had the F-75 for a week, just how much testing does one think he could do in that time with the constraints of the weather, and of course work, you know that word, it's the thing that helps pay the rent. :)

Just my opinion. Within a short time everyone will be able to purchase them. I will be receiving my first shipment Tuesday. I will gladly send you one, and you can do your own test. :)

Have a nice day
 
Please reread my post asking him if he had TIME to compare the depth and separation. My thread head even started out with a Do you mind. It was a simple question. Not a demand in any way. If he doesn't have a minelab or have used one so be it. I just wanted his opinion. I know he hasn't had much time with the new F75 but I'm sure he has some opinion. Again. WHY is it a crime to kindly ask his opinion? Is that not what these forums are about?

He has been overly helpful with all our questions on the F75. I appreciate it very much. If he doesn't have the time or doesn't feel the need I will still be thankful for what he has done already here.

I PMed him asking him if he was a dealer because if he was I was going to buy from him for all his help. He kindly referred me to you. I have 3 hunting buddies who want the new F75 also but after you rude remarks I wonder if I'm going to be referring anyone to you?

Do me a favor. Please reread my original statement where I kindly asked him if he "minded" to compare the 2.

If you have something else to say please PM me. This great forum doesn't need this drama. We are all here to learn and ask questions. Well so I thought.

HH, Stoops
 
What did I read in the post pinned at the top of the page?......... We at Fisher Labs believe that the F75 might just make all other $1000+ multi purpose metal detectors obsolete. This was the intention of our world class design team. And critical field tests confirm that the F75 is an exceptionally well engineered machine.
I'm Reading "Critical field tests confirm" ???????????:blink:
 
yes, I hope there is a usb port, but it is hard to imagine the overhead of breaking every unit open to access it. maybe they've wised up and it's easily accessible for upgrade (but still hidden to the public).
With the new generation of detectors relying so much on software, I think the F75 should have had a user-accessable usb port (or 3in1 memory card reader) to allow sw upgrades from the manufacturer to be done by the user from their own computer just like what is available to upgrade and fix bugs, for example, in your epson printer directly from your pc.
A big problem I have with the F75 is that a minor (or major!) required sw upgrade can't be accomplished without shipping the unit back to the factory (costly and time-consuming).
As to finding problems this late in the development cycle, I feel sorry for Fisher if this is how they operate. It would mean that the March 5 date really means the date for 'release to manufacturing' where the factory actually ramps up the production cycle (and a subsequent later date for shipment).
I would expect that a well thoughtout test process would be running in paralell with development of the F75 all along.
If units are beings shipped to dealers on the 5th the design should have been 'frozen' quite a while back. The manufacturing process itself has it's own separate problems that need to be worked out. Knowing that later 'builds' will have newer 'revs' of firmware correcting and improving various issues is very annoying, in that there is no 'means' for the early adopters to get these updates.
So, Fisher, please think about being the first to offer the user this ability on your future units.
 
really just a matter of fact response. I have bought new machines from him before and really enjoyed/appreciated his knowledge, experience, and support...granted the whole F75 thing has been a little frustrating for all parties involved from the manufacturer, dealers, and THers...but that's all about to change in a few short days and albeit well worth the wait...HH
 
That's right.

Critical field test does not necessary mean comparing the F-75 to other brand of detector's. Not necessary from a manufactures prospective. Have you given it any thought that perhaps another tester somewhere else, may be testing it against other detectors ? I am aware of at least 5 others that are, but because of agreements they have with Fisher, they are not allowed to say anything yet.

If you had been paying attention to Bill's post you would remember his main thrust was in looking for operational, and software bugs. He's only had the unit for a week, and does anyone really expect him to have the availability of all the detector's that were requested he test the F-75 against ?

Mr.Bill
 
Mellow out a bit, no one here is out for personal attacks against you.

It wasn't directed at you, but in general to Barnacle Bill's post.

I guess if the shoe fits, wear it.

Mr. Bill
 
I've been detecting since 1976 and I've always seen that the official 'testers' have a more positive view of the product than the general detecting public.

After a new detector comes out, there is always a rush by some folks to try the latest and greatest. In a few weeks these units will be for sale....

We shall see.
 
show comparison tests with competitive units. They wouldn't tell us if their machine wasn't as good. If they told us their machine was better, we would have to suspect the tests. Also they might be open for a law suit. Even when we buyers make comparisons, many of us are only interested in how they (detectors) satisfy our needs; not necessarily the needs of others.
 
Well the statement that field tests have been done & that the F-75 will make all other $1,000.00 Plus detectors OBSOLETE....Sounds like the usual B.S. to me...I stopped following most of the threads on the F-word forum & don't read most of them because of so much speculative posting on the new model....no meat & potato's...just b.s. I also have a hard time believing that there are testers out there that are testing right now but... "can't say anything because of an agreement with Fisher"...:blink: More B.S....If the "New Better Than Anything F-75" is so great that it will make other top of the line detectors obsolete, you'd think Fisher would be paying money to get the word out, not making agreements to keep it secret. :shrug:As far as testing it against other detectors, why not compare it to previous models. That shouldn't be too hard...:starwars:
 
Actually that's not B.S. it is pretty much a standard practice not only with metal detectors but many other products. As a field tester many times you are asked to asked to sign an NDA, Non-Disclosure Agreement which is a legal contract with the manufacturer. It will contain clauses spelling out exactly what you can or can't reveal in testing the product, and if you have any doubts best to check with them.

In the company I work for we use them all the time for field testers of consumer electronics designs of ours. Our field testers are chosen for a variety of reasons with some having the task of testing "the product" against what is currently on the market from our competitors. If those field testers were to break that NDA and begin posting on an internet forum, then it is now lawsuit time.

I routinely sign NDA's for my job and for personal hobby items, and believe that I shouldn't just live by the written page but by the spirit of the document. If one of F75 field testers wants to be BMOC(Big Man on Campus) and starting blabbing to his buddies, then his temperament is not suited to be a field tester.

Now you may think that they should act as self appointed Whistle Blowers, but what they are supposed to be doing is reporting back to the manufacturer to correct any problems so that they are handled before release. Many people want to be field testers because they think it will "be fun", be careful of what you wish for.

Let's take the F75 for instance, a software driven machine with a single button interface. Think about how many mode,tone, notch, disc etc. combinations there are. We're not just talking about a spreadsheet layout with X & Y(columns & rows) we're also talking a very deep Z axis, a three dimensional spreadsheet of software functions that have to be tested. Visualize a three dimensional chess game ala' Star Trek. I wouldn't be surprised if the F75 field testers had a checklist with about 300 combinations they have to test, to say nothing of the operational factors. Interference, ground balance, pinpointing, hot rocks, cold rocks, saltwater, black sand, etc. etc. It can be very tedious, but also rewarding to have some influence on what other hobbyists will have at their disposal because of the field tester's efforts.

Now as to the marketing "obsolete", yeah I think that's over the top, but I also know that's what National Sales Manager types get paid to do no matter what the product, cars, TV's , soup......

HH
BarnacleBill
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top