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Hunting in all metal mode

C

Cal_Cobra

Active member
I have a spot that has huge potential, but as I mentioned in another post it's laden with iron so the Sov is nulling 99% of the time no matter how slow I go. I already found an old harmonica reed, iron stone porcelain shards, old glass bottle pieces, and old pieces of what appear to be hand tooled copper.

Another forum member suggested to clean the place up and more likely then not goodies will appear. What do you guys think about hunting in all metal mode and just digging every friggin' target ? Pick an 10 x 10 spot and just strip down the layers of junk. Lots of work, but might be the only way to go here.

HH,
Brian
 
If you use the GT, you can use the tone shift of the audio to pick out zincs, IH, and higher coins. The tone shifts up instead of down on these targets.
One downside to this is that iron that would give a high tone in disc mode will also shift high in AM.
Art
 
OK, so pretty much going to be a beep and dig operation in AM mode. I may take my Coinstrike out there and try to strip out some of the trash, it does pretty well in trash and I can shoot in AM with the TID still working. I think this spot is going to require multiple machines to work it to it's full potential.
 
Art,

In all metal, do you mean there is some iron that will shift the tone low, and some that will shift the tone high?
 
Yes......with the GT.
The high/low shift point is just below the zincs. In other words ....about at the high limit for the discrimination control in disc mode. Whatever metal would pass the highest discrimination setting in disc mode will shift high in all metal. Any metal that would register a lower conductivity than that (including iron) will shift low.
Iron trash can fool you at times because of the size, shape, or corrosion extent. It can hit just as high as silver in disc mode. When in all metal mode, the detector still is fooled into thinking that the iron is a high conductivity non-ferrous object.

So........iron that hits high in disc mode will also shift high in AM.

HH
 
Here's what I found on my initial "survey" trip posted above:

BSsite.jpg


I think I'll go back today and just dig everything that beeps in AM mode.

I'm thinking because I will be digging everything in AM mode, I might as well use the Sunray 12" Intruder coil so I can get as deep as possible while I'm at it.
 
:confused: :confused:
I have an Elite, XS2aPro and have just had a loan of a GT for a month, All of them in AM mode give the same tone on All targets(after internally adjusting the inicial tones on each machine on the same target to sound the same), the only thing i have noticed is that at times you get a double peak, or a slow rise to peak and sudden cutoff on some objects but the tone is the same, only changing in volume, i was doing some extensive tests on diferent coils to try and find what was the deepest, i have just been out to try and reproduce the tone change loads of diferent scraps and new iron(air test) i even passed the coil under my car:yikes: no tone change. are you sure the toggle switch is not stuck in Disc? as it is a common fault, I dont think my 3 machines are all busted
 
If you listen close, you will hear some tone change in AM with the Elite and the 2a.... it may take a pretty strong signal before it becomes obvious.
The AM tones of the GT sound like wild vco audio. Air testing the GT for tone change does not work well. It must be ground balanced first so forget the air tests.
 
Are you running all metal in pinpoint? If you are, it will work exactly like the Elite and the 2a.
Ground balance it in TRACK, then try it again. But not with an air test.And DO NOT go to PINPOINT.
 
So are you saying that in AM the GT will give different tones for different metals?
 
Yes and no.
If the metal has a conductivity level above a certain point, the tone will shift higher than the no target threshold tone. It gets higher and louder as the signal strength increases. This is similar to my White's in all metal with VCO on.
If the conductivity is below the same point, the tone will shift lower and increase in volume and get lower in pitch as the signal gets stronger. This would be like my white's VCO running in reverse.
It would be great if the shift point could be adjusted with the notch or disc control. As is,the shift point is fixed and will classify a target as either above or below a certain conductivity point.
The switch over point is just below zincs, where the disc control would stop in disc mode. This only works in all metal track and fixed....provided you do a ground balance and do it with ground targets instead of air tests.
So it can tell you if a target is above or below a certain conductivity, and how strong the hit is. I'ts a very strange way of doing audio with a lot of screeching, squawking, and groaning when going over multiple targets.
As I have mentioned, iron that hits high in disc will also cause a high shift.

Something to consider...
A GT can be said to always be in all metal mode and disc mode...all of the time.... except for pinpoint which is strictly all metal.
In all metal it can tell if the target is above or below a particular conductivity level. In disc mode, it picks up everything as well. While you don't get a target audio tone on most iron, it still tells you that it is there by the null and threshold tone. Also, ANY rejected target gives you the appropriate threshold tone for it's conductivity.This is unlike other detectors that tell you nothing about objects that are rejected. For all you know, there is nothing there in dirt that is full of objects.
It sees all and knows all.

HH
 
Keep it up Art. I've almost got it figured out.:beers:
I'm copy and pasting all of this onto my notepad so I can print it out for further study.:thumbup:
 
At least you did not ask what happens if a target has a conductivity right at the shift point. Could you guess???
I don't know myself but have a good idea. It's based on the same reason that meters bounce around and tones sound different between objects of the same (apparent) conductivity. Think about that for a while.
I really need to give up on this stuff.... not the beer, but my participation here.

HH
 
Could the depth of an object with conductivity that is right at the shift point cause the difference in tone or meter reading? Would the more shallow target read higher and the deeper target read lower even though the conductivity might be the same? Hope I make a little sense.

Your participation is appreciated Art. Thank You....
 
I did not even think about the effect of depth. The GT is known for giving correct ID at almost ANY depth compared to the other Sovs, which drop off some in the last inch or so of the max possible depth.
I gave you the clue , but you missed it..........
As you sweep the coil over a target, the Sov sees the target from different angles, and sees a changing conductivity during the sweep. The highest conductivity will be seen when directly over the target. So this constantly changing conductivity causes a constantly changing meter reading, and a constantly changing audio. This is why a ring and a pulltab give the same reading but sound different during a wiggle or a steady sweep over.
A shotgun shell and a nickle can give the same peak reading on the meter, but sound different. In addition, if the meter is fast enough it will see the way the conductivity pattern runs and clearly show that the shotgun shell is not the nickle.(XS 550 meter)
So what you would get.....I think...(because I seldom use all metal search)............Tweedle-tweedle tweedle....as the sov sees the rise and fall of conductivity during the passes over the target.
Just a guess but seems logical.
HH
 
Wow.....I think I need a beer. Another one for the notepad.

I'm going to start using the AM mode on my GT. I don't think I've used it more than one time. I would imagine that mastering the use of the AM mode would be of great benefit in the overall attempt of mastering of the Sovereign detector.

Thanks again Art.
HH, bottlebum
 
It might drive you nuts in the trash. It is VERY strange. I will stick with disc mode with sensitivity optimized ( Andy Sabisch method) whenever possible.
All metal search with the GT could work well in the iron if you have a good ear for a high pitched squeak amid all the other noises.
Might be like hearing someone step on a mouse during a Ozzy concert.
HH
 
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