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how to tell if its silver or clad

Jason in Enid said:
Quit over-thinking it and dig the target! If you want to know if it's silver, dig it and look at it.

Jason is exactly right - listen to him. There's often no way to tell. I've dug a lot of deep silver dimes at 12-38 and up (using Ferrous-Coin). Only the shallow coins in cleaner sites seem to give an unmistakable 12-45. I've done really well at a few sites where some local Etrac users that believe you can always tell the difference thought they had it cleaned out.

Lastly, I found a silver dollar a while back that gave a 12-41 signal at 4 inches deep. I would avoid setting any kind of hard and fast rule because the exceptions can be some of your best finds. It comes down to knowing your site and digging a lot of maybes.
 
I am finding that our Canada Penny's will sound off at 12-44, 13-44, 12-45, 12-46, 13-46. I ended up digging everything. In the end, the one and first silver that I ended up finding last night was a 925 Ring with a 1-50! I will be hunting some old miner cabins possibly today and will see how that goes. I know that the site is littered with nails.
 
hiluxyota said:
Thank you mcclod..I will try using 50 co. A little more to see if I can hear any difference with that setting.

I wasn't specifically recommending that anyone should use 50 co. I was just stating that's what I have mostly been hunting g in, I'm still new to the CTX too, although I have a little over 200 hours on it now. I have been starting to work with combined more, and still get the 12 to 13 to 12 shift over silver but it's not 100%.

I believe many like using the combined tones, hope I'm using the correct terminology. Experiment to find that which works best for your ears, I know when I've hunted in combined the tone is more stable, but a copper penny can sound the same as silver, depending on where you set the breaking point on the tones, that's the beauty of combined, YOU can assign where the tonal changes occur by the numbers you set it up to! I think the questions you have asked are good ones, we all had to start learning somewhere! I still am a newbie by comparison to most of the vets here. HH & GL
 
Silver numbers can be pulled down by trash or iron close by. Not only silver, but any target number can be influenced by surrounding targets. It all boils down to you and your brain. Where are you hunting? Is the site old? How easy is the digging? How long since I last dug a target? If you set your detector to ring in at only say 40 conductive and above then you will miss some nice stuff. I coin hunt some trashy places. I have dug silver at 12-38 already. I dug seated that sounded crappy, but repeated.
 
Jason in Enid said:
Dwayne2010 said:
Here is what I am using for my Silver. Maybe somebody can tell me what I am doing wrong or what I can change.

You are going to miss a LOT of silver with that screen!

I agree that isn't going to work for all silver. 12/38 is a 1/2 Reale
 
I have dug old silver with readings as low as 12-39 so good luck with the #'s game! as far as depth I have picked coins off the surface in 100 year old parks If I like the tone it's in the bag Baby Like my mentor says you never know till you dig it !!
HH Jeff
 
Silver from clad? The conductivity of the target surface and near sub-surface is not the only determinant of the Fe-Co values. If it were, life would be much easier. The basic problem requires a magnetic field to illuminate and drive either voltage (eddy currents) or align ferrous domains (iron) in the target, or both. A coin is non-ferrous, but the soil contains ferrous minerals (and salts), which alter the field, spreading it out horizontally. While you swing the coil the field strength at depth is rising and falling, the field dimensions are being distorted (but keeping the same volume), so that the intersection of the magnetic field lines may intersect the target at various angles, ideal being 90 degrees and worst case parallel to the target's surface. This means the induced voltage on your silver coin is rising and falling, depending upon the strength of the intersecting field, whose strength is rising and falling with the soil matrix.

When the voltage varies so does the secondary magnetic field induced in the coin's surface (and near sub-surface), which in turn weakens or strengthens the returned magnetic field, which then induces a voltage in the receive coil (weaker or stronger corresponding to the returned signal strength). While you are sweeping the coil, the machine is driving 4,000 time per second into the soil, but if you could see the illuminated area it would look like a lava lamp blob expanding and contracting. This is why you can easily miss a target and hit it the next time - a slight change in angle of attack allowed the field to penetrate to the target. This is why most people slow down - not that the detector needs the time (the transmit coil is working too fast for that to matter) but as you move about over the target there is an increased chance that a slight coil sweep offset will unknowingly bypass some soil blockage (this is why striking different angles is so important - especially for the deeper, weaker signals).

But, the soil minerals and salts aren't the only factor affecting your Fe-Co reading. If the target is angled away from the horizontal, then the maximum field strength (in the coil center-line, which is essentially perpendicular to the ground) will intersect the coin (or nail) at an undesirable angle. This may be mitigated by the strong field strength so that a strong eddy is generated anyway, but again, sometimes it is the field lines that are more parallel (to the ground) that will drive the voltage with an angled coin (hitting perpendicular to the coin's surface). Those skewed field lines are outside the center-line of the coil, where the field strength is weaker, but the induced voltage may be greater due to the angle of intersection. You still get a signal in the detector (perhaps) but the signal may be weak (and appear deeper than it really is - a coin on edge).

The phase offset between the returned signal and the transmitted signal will determine the ferrous/non-ferrous nature. The detector will do best when the signal is strong - the weaker field from an angled coin or warped field in the ground matrix may cause other competing signals (soil, nails) to alter the silver coin so that it looks like a clad dime/penny or drive it further into the ferrous region. An elongated ferrous target (nail) may act to gather field lines into itself depriving the nearby coin in a field void that masks the coin. You may only get an intermittent signal - jumping about from Fe12 to Fe35 as the two phases play tug-of-war in the ground.

The bottom line, in neutral soil the sliver coin will behave like a silver coin - unless very deep and at a large angle in respect to the field lines. In mixed soil matrixes, which is most common, the silver Fe-Co values can be affected greatly and vary greatly depending upon sweep angle, speed, soil moisture, iron and salt content, elongated iron nearby, and coin position and depth. A weak voltage in the coin means a weak return signal amongst strong garbage signals - the end result is a silver coin that can appear as non-silver. It happens all the time.

Most people just get used to the ambiguity of detecting and dig anything that appears somewhat repeatable in a Fe-Co zone that is known to produce good targets. Of course, if you only hunt the high Co values you will miss all the non-standard signals generated by silver coins (especially deeper coins), and you'll miss all the gold rings which lie along the 12Fe line (+/- 3) but near the 01-15Co area (low conductivity). In other words, you will be the 15% hunter - missing 85% of the good targets. The TID is nice and the Fe-Co values are helpful, but in the end it comes down to digging the target out. There is no secret formula to discriminating good from bad with much certainty, especially in difficult ground conditions. The next pull-tab you ignore or bothersome clad penny TID, might just be that diamond studded gold ring or old silver half-dollar. Done correctly, detecting is hard, dirty, tiring, and often frustrating work. You won't read that in a manufacturer's detecting brochure, but it's true.

Johnnyanglo
 
Hey guys I don't own a CTX have an Etrac so please don't think im ignorant, but what made a big difference in making a variation of the tone was in the audio setting. The area that got adjusted was thresh hold pitch. When I first got the machine and began air testing not for depth but for tones and and smart find numbers I felt like pennies sounded pretty close to even a dime and clad and silver to my ears were same. I posted the question and a rather lengthy thread followed. But the point was by moving thresh hold pitch up it made a significant difference in the tones. So much so that during a blind air test I was able to tell the difference between clad and silver 100% of the time. Now that is an etrac and was air testing, it did however preform almost identical in the field in clean areas. I knew it was silver before digging and not due to depth. In areas with a lot of chatter well not as reliable so I just dig. So im not sure if this a setting or not but maybe some of the CTX gurus that were the Etrac gurus can exlain what setting for the CTX is the equvelant to threshold pitch on the Etrac.
 
Johnnyanglo,

Thank you for Taking time to post that info, it really helps me understand how my detector (CTX) "sees" things!

Will1877,

Thanks to you as well for the threshold pitch info, I'll be experimenting with that now, silver and clad tones sound very similar to my not so young ears, I can tell the slight difference in air tests, but out in the field with more time between good targets, my ears "forget". I've been running my TH pitch at a lower tone that I found to be less intrusive to my hearing, but think some d, perimeter ion now will be well worth the effort so many thanks to you as well!

I've got a couple hundred hours on my CTX now, and am at the fringe of just beginning to learn my machine and all the ifo you and the other fi e folks here post to share their experience is a huge help to me!

HH & GL

Don
 
TheGeorgiaCanuck said:
The E-trac has a distinctive silver warble sound. Unfortunately they did NOT transfer this over to the CTX. I'd say thats probably one of the most sought after upgrades if possible for the CTX.
YES! Where is the variability setting?
 
For those silver warble fans have you ever watched the VDI numbers during this so called silver warble? The warble you hear is the result of an unstable ready from the target. The more solid the resulting VDI the more solid, no warble, the tone is. The CTX lacks the same warble because it has a more accurate resulting VDI. So in essences you're asking that the CTX be made to have a less accurate ID system as an option?
 
hiluxyota said:
Great idea .....guess I will sell the ctx and get a 100.00 bounty hunter .......

You are wasting your time and everyone else's with an attitude like this. Honestly, you got to stop being lazy and dig. You are going to find way more silver if you dig high tones than only the digging the signals you "think" are silver. Metal detecting is part machine part human, and when you got a good combo, the sky's the limit. In your case, you want the machine to do it all for you. Not going to work.
 
I ran the tone pitch on my ctx all the way up to 30 yesterday evening to test. On 75% of the copper after that I was getting a warble tone, the other 25% was a solid tone. I only dug one silver yesterday, a 1916S Mercury dime and the tone was solid, no flutey or warble tones. I'm gonna test all my silver and play with the tone pitch more this evening, but I really don't trust air tests.
 
Nolanation, no ones time is being wasted ,specially if you or the two others have READ my first question about how can I tell if its silver . If I wanted to dig every 3 inch clad dime signal than yes. I would hav purchased a cheap 100.00 detector. Since I hunt with an experienced e trac user ,and he skips those shallow signals ,and can pick out a silver dime at 3 inches. Then my question was how can a ctx tell if its silver at those shallow depts,without digging every single dime signal. I'm not hunting clad and digging everything like most people do. Since his 1500.00 e trac seems to tell the difference ,than a 2500.00 ctx should also. ,so I would think ..and I only have around 50 hours on it,so I thank the serious responses only to my original question,and the person who said to just dig all the clad ,and buy silver. That would be wasting time to a perfectly good question. As far as my quote on guess I will sell the ctx and buy a 100.00 detector ,no attitude here..just a smart -alec response ,to a smart-alec answer to a honest question. Again I thank all of the people with the GOOD explanations on how to tell its silver.
 
hiluxyota said:
Since I hunt with an experienced e trac user ,and he skips those shallow signals ,and can pick out a silver dime at 3 inches. .

There's your problem right there, he CAN'T tell. If you are only going for the 100% positive signal response you missing the vast majority of silver. I used an E-Trac for almost 5 years, and I learned from the beginning to just dig all the coin targets. Sure it's nice when you can say to yourself, "yep that's ones probably silver" but there are so many more that don't respond like that.

If you are only digging 3 inch targets, buy a crap detector, they can all do that. I don't even dig most target less than 4 inches deep unless I'm hunting a home site that could be virgin ground. 3 inches... hell youre playing in the same dirt as everyone else for the last 60 years. LOOK DEEPER. If you want to have the opportunity to dig 10 inch deep dimes, then use the CTX for what it's strengths are.
 
I was getting a mix of numbers and tones (high, mid high in combined) in an area of a park I had dug a Mercury and wheats earlier and was convinced it was not a coin, maybe a screw cap, but I had to see. I picked up a zinc just under the pine needles, rescanned the hole/area and had a much stronger/repeatable coin tone with a 12-42, dug a wheat, rescanned again and got a strong/repeatable tone with a 12-43 13-43/45 and was sure it was a dime, maybe silver, and I dug a Mercury so as most have written you never know until you dig it. A lot of the wheats and I'd say 3 of the 6 silver dimes were less than 4", all less than 6" in this park. HH
 
hiluxyota said:
Nolanation, no ones time is being wasted ,specially if you or the two others have READ my first question about how can I tell if its silver . If I wanted to dig every 3 inch clad dime signal than yes. I would hav purchased a cheap 100.00 detector. Since I hunt with an experienced e trac user ,and he skips those shallow signals ,and can pick out a silver dime at 3 inches. Then my question was how can a ctx tell if its silver at those shallow depts,without digging every single dime signal. I'm not hunting clad and digging everything like most people do. Since his 1500.00 e trac seems to tell the difference ,than a 2500.00 ctx should also. ,so I would think ..and I only have around 50 hours on it,so I thank the serious responses only to my original question,and the person who said to just dig all the clad ,and buy silver. That would be wasting time to a perfectly good question. As far as my quote on guess I will sell the ctx and buy a 100.00 detector ,no attitude here..just a smart -alec response ,to a smart-alec answer to a honest question. Again I thank all of the people with the GOOD explanations on how to tell its silver.

I don't think metal detecting is for you. Metal detecting is more than digging up silver. It is for the love of being outdoors, exercise, and the thrill of the hunt, never knowing what could be next. Silver and gold are so much fun to find, because you never know when you are going to find it. Your friend has missed all kinds of silver if he thinks he got it figured out 100% signal wise. Guaranteed. If all the silver was that easy to find, it would all be gone by now. Again, you bought a machine hoping it would do it all for you, and all you would have to do is dig a few holes that were all silver coins. I have dug a gold ring that sounded like a clad dime. Did I think it was a clad dime? Yes. Was I going to skip it? No chance. You clearly don't care about the thrill and excitement of what could be in the ground, and are only out there to cherry pick for the money. You and the CTX won't last long together if that is the case.
 
Let's face it, anybody can find wheat pennies and clad coins. And realistically, most wheat pennies are basically worthless. Even the vast majority of silver coins are only worth the melt value. But I still enjoy finding silver, partly for the value of the coins, but mostly because I just enjoy the surprise of finding them. As far as only digging the deep signals -- in my opinion, that's a big mistake. In the park I'm currently working two thirds of the silver coins were less than 2" deep (one was a 1916 Barber dime). As far as trying to guess if the signal is silver - I've found aluminum twist caps that gave signals as high as 12-47 (guess what - I'm digging a 12-47 every time - not going to let a quarter or half slip by). For what it's worth, I've never been able to tell the difference between a silver coin and a clad coin; and I really don't care. Like nolanation said, it's "the thrill and excitement of what could be in the ground."
 
I'm at 1471 silver coins since 2007,most with an Explorer.With that machine the silver warble and the cursor running half buried across the top of the screen in smartscreen was a dead give away you had silver.I've been using the CTX for 10 months and I find no clues from tone but the conduct # on clad dimes run 43-45 but on silver dimes run 44-47 and yes I miss the warble.
 
I will go back to my original comment. The CTX gives you a huge amount of information. The point most are trying to make here (I think) is the experienced user digs almost all good signals and the 'good signal' comes with experience with the machine. I also do not think the vast majority of machines can accurately predict silver or not. Yes, most silver coins are pretty well documented as to numbers on the display but iron, soil, mineral content, etc, all screw that up. The CTX will give you a lot of information about what is there, depth, size, and ferrous and conductivity. Then your experience and brain memory from previously dug objects should sort through what you have received and make the decision as to dig or not dig! There really is no magic100% formula to my knowledge.

So, back to the original question, about how you can tell. I don't think anyone is 100% able to tell but I do believe you can narrow it down considerably by learning the machine and using all the information received. You are still going to dig a lot of aluminum, tin, copper pipes, copper fittings, brass stuff, clad coins and in about 10% of the time you might get silver. Also, as I dig almost all good targets I really don't like to hunt behind a guy that just cherry picks. To me they are missing out on a far more rewarding experience. The silver is nice but there are a ton of other far more valuable objects, from a historical and money perspective, that you will dig if you take the time to do it. My ratio of coins to silver is about 40-1. If I cut out the nickels and the low penny signals then it would probably be closer to 20-1. But, I would leave silver, gold, valuable pennies and nickels, buttons, old coins, jewelry, and really neat old tokens, pieces of hardware, etc., in the ground.

If you think a bit about it, the silver dime is now about $1.30 and at 40-1 you would be ahead moneywise to dig a mix of 40 clad coins.
 
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