How many of you have to put up with this kind of bureaucratic nonsense?

[Architex]

Missouri State Parks Metal Detecting Registration
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Missouri State Parks via Missouri State Parks <oa.drupaladministration@oa.mo.gov>
12:35 PM (7 hours ago)


to me


PROOF OF REGISTRATION - Thank you for your registration as a metal detector operator in Missouri state parks. Proof of registration must be presented upon request when metal detecting in Missouri state parks.

Date Issued: Sun, 2018-06-10

Rich Mikesell Columbia, MO

Metal Detecting Locations and Hours

Metal detecting activities can ONLY take place on designated beaches in the following state parks and during the hours and seasons, as indicated:
Facility Memorial Day to Labor Day Labor Day to Memorial Day
Cuivre River State Park 7:00 AM – 9:00 AM Daylight Hours
Finger Lakes State Park 7:00 AM – 9:00 AM Daylight Hours
Lake of the Ozarks State Park Daylight Hours Daylight Hours
Lake Wappapello State Park 7:00 AM – 9:00 AM Daylight Hours
Long Branch State Park 7:00 AM – 9:00 AM Daylight Hours
Pomme de Terre State Park 10:00 AM – Noon Closed
Stockton State Park 7:00 AM – 9:00 AM Daylight Hours
Trail of Tears State Park 7:00 AM – 9:00 AM Daylight Hours
Harry S Truman State Park 7:00 AM – 9:00 AM Closed
Wakonda State Park 7:00 AM – 9:00 AM Closed
Watkins Woolen Mill SP 8:00 AM – 10:00 AM Closed

Metal Detecting Rules

• Metal detectors may be used to the shoreline and in the water adjacent to the specified beaches of the above named parks.
• Any solid faced digging or probing tool cannot exceed 12” in overall length and 3” in width. Any sand digging or sifting scoop cannot exceed 12” in overall length and 6” in width. Suction dredges may not be used.
• Plants may not be dislodged or have their roots disturbed.
• Operator shall have this Proof of Registration email in his/her possession at all times while using a metal detector.
• This registration and acknowledgement is non-transferable.
• Contact the park superintendent if a historic, archaeological or item valued at $10 or more is found.
• The park superintendent shall have authority to evict an operator for failure to comply with these rules.
• Registration must take place each calendar year and can be done at mostateparks.com.

 

[ewtaylor]

I was detecting a creek, which runs through town, the other day. A young lady asked me what I was doing and I told her clearing out the trash and hoping to find some relics of the town. "Oh, your metal detecting!" I showed her some of the trash I plucked from the creek, but she was completely offended. "Your ruining the habitat of our aquatic creatures and destroying our delicate ecology!" I put my headphones on and continued my search.
With so many youtube videos and TV shows glamorizing our hobby I expect it to get worse. I've watched so many videos of, I suspect, newbies in a park, school, or someone's yard digging a crater to find a penny or cutting a nice plug only to completely destroy it because they don't know how to pinpoint. It really gives off a negative view to so many not in this hobby.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Excellent post . Numerous lessons and points that can be deduced from this :

1) How much you want to make a bet, that the origin of such rules/permit (the notion to invent them in the first place), came from decades back, when well-meaning md'rs went knocking on doors there, asking "Can I... ?". And "what are the rules regarding..." etc.... And sure as heck, the powers-that-be must address these "pressing issues". Hence laws and rules are born.

2) "Plants may not be dislodged" ? I guess that rules out turf hunting. Since "grass" is a "plant" after all.

3) 6" wide sand scoop ? Why the heck is that important to anyone ? And gee, is anyone really out on the beach, armed with a ruler, measuring people's sand scoops ? Does anyone actually really care about sand scoop size ?

4) Re.: " .... historic, archaeological or item....". I'll bet you dollars to donuts, that if you went to ask them how they define such an item (hey, can't be too safe, eh ? Better run to ask them , eh ?) , that it would be defined as an item over 50 yrs. old. Hence you can only hunt for clad, eh ? And naturally they have sentry commandos set about, armed with calculators, that rush out to do the math on the age of each coin you find. Eh ?

5) Items of $10 or more to be turned in, eh ? So kiss jewelry hunting goodbye.

6) And this is the PERFECT example of why "permits" is NEVER a good thing for md'ing. Yet for some reason, many md'rs eyes wax romantic at the thought of "permits". Like: It removes all doubt of where you can and can't go. It sounds like "carte blanche" to detect nilly willy, eh ? Yet as your post shows: They are invariably riddled with sillyness.

7) And worse yet: In a lot of places where permits were dreamed up, the entire system is simply revoked years later, and md'ing made to be a no-no. Why ? Because THE SIMPLE FACT that it's perpetually on their radar, as something under review each year at board meetings. On their list-of-permits they perpetually pass out or field Q's on. Then sure as heck, one year they ask themselves: "Gee, do we really want these yahoos out there digging up the park ? Taking away our past ?" So they revoke it altogether.

Hence much better that there is NO permits. And SILENCE on the subject . Neither expressly allowed, nor expressly dis-allowed.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... but she was completely offended. "Your ruining the habitat of our aquatic creatures and destroying our delicate ecology!" .....

Ewtaylor: You realize, of course, that it's your duty to please that lady. Otherwise, you're being a bad ambassador to the hobby. So you shall not return until you have her princely blessing.

Reminds me of the time I had a lady, walking her dog, on beach come up to me and griped. I think she was trying to say the detector was bothering her dog. I think she thought it emits some frequency or sound that only dogs can hear ??

Yet oddly enough, there are a lot of md'rs , who encounter such flukes (a gardener having a bad hair day, a cop who was responding to a call out and has to please miss-lookie-lou) as being "gospel law". Or they feel they have to go to city hall and "seek clarification" to overturn any such gripe or fluke scram.

But I'm with you: Sometimes you just give lip service, and move on. I do not construe every single gripe as "must go seek blessings and clarifications". In this hobby, I hate to say it, but sometimes you have to have a thick skin.

 

[still looking 52]

I'm happy to say we don't have any stupid rules and regulations here in our area to deal with, thank goodness. Honestly, if I had to jump through all those hoops and follow all those rules and regulations I'd probably just give up on metal detecting, it's supposed to be fun and that doesn't sound like much fun to me.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... I'm happy to say we don't have any stupid rules and regulations here in our area to deal with,....

still-looking, I bet I could get that changed in a few short weeks. Just tell me where you detect. I will track down the entity that administers the locations (city, county, state, fed, or whatever). And then pepper them with questions to clarify the activities of still-looking-52. I would just ask them : "Gee, is it really right that still-looking takes home city property for his own pleasure and profit ? And "gee, doesn't this run afoul of harvest/take/remove laws" ? And "Gee, shouldn't there be a permit?" . And "gee, what if he finds an indian bone, or leaves a hole where a little girl trips ?"

And in 2 or 3 weeks, I bet you'd have a permit system, or outright "no's". So the lack of stupid rules in your area simply means you haven't gone asking enough questions. Shame on you, eh ? I'm sure you're wracked with guilt right about now.

 

[sprchng]

I was detecting a creek, which runs through town, the other day. A young lady asked me what I was doing and I told her clearing out the trash and hoping to find some relics of the town. "Oh, your metal detecting!" I showed her some of the trash I plucked from the creek, but she was completely offended. "Your ruining the habitat of our aquatic creatures and destroying our delicate ecology!" I put my headphones on and continued my search.
With so many youtube videos and TV shows glamorizing our hobby I expect it to get worse. I've watched so many videos of, I suspect, newbies in a park, school, or someone's yard digging a crater to find a penny or cutting a nice plug only to completely destroy it because they don't know how to pinpoint. It really gives off a negative view to so many not in this hobby.

And that's the most pertinent point to the entire issue,,,,detectorists are their own worst enemies and continue to gratify their egos at the expense of the hobby or to make a buck.

 

[Nauti]

How about this one.I recently wrote to the owner of a private beach asking if they allowed metal detecting.They replied that natural England,(a body over here that looks after areas of natural beauty,geological importance etc) would'nt allow detecting on the beach because of the important geological features that were found under the sand and the fact that detecting could disturb it.
I wrote to natural England asking about the deep holes fishermen made on the beach when digging for lugworms.I also mentioned the huge holes that children made while playing on the beach,some up to 4 feet deep........no reply.
I sent the message again with a few alterations,one suggesting they put up a sign suggesting that there should be no digging of any kind on the beach due to the fact that it could destroy important geology....again,no response.
To me this is the blatant discrimination of metal detectorists and a great example of the type of ignorant idiot that work for these organisations.

 

[Architex]

We'll, we're just weirdos doncha know.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... To me this is the blatant discrimination of metal detectorists.....

No. There's no discrimination at all. Because don't you know what the difference is between those kids who dig sand castle holes and you is ? And those fishermen who dig worms and you is ? The difference is here to be seen :

....I recently wrote to the owner of a private beach asking if they allowed metal detecting.......

See ? The difference is, that those fishermen and sandcastle builders didn't inquire ahead of time . If they had done so (and were sure to mention "holes" and "geologic importance") then THEY TOO could have gotten "no's" like you did. Then they too could start forums lamenting their lack of freedoms, and silly rules. Shame on those others for not asking, eh ?

But as you can see, no one cares less if the fisherman digs for worms. Or the kid builds sand castles. And likewise, so too could probably have just gone, and no one would cared less. Asking "can I?" simply implies something is amiss, or harmful, or wrong. Such that you needed to ask, in the first place. Lest why else would you be asking, if it were benign and harmless ?

No one asks to do innocuous benign things . Thus by asking, the "wheels in some pencil pusher's head" start turning. I am convinced that if I asked enough beach personnel here "Can I pick my nose?", that I could find someone to tell me "no". Might fall afoul of "annoyances" or "blocking sidewalks" or "needs a parade permit".

Me thinks you just became the latest victim of : "No one cared, till you asked".

 

[HaroldILL.]

Dude You are lucking You can still detect with a permit. We tried to do that here in Crook County and they shot it down. This use to be the best place to detect with 80,000
acres of Preserves that was once old Picnic groves. Hunted them for 20 years without an issue. Then comes all the Youtube Tnet Hero's with Shovels and hunting Buddys 6-12 Guys at a time. Seeing who could when the Big Silver contest they had .And that was the end. Now they all have No Detecting signs with a 500.00 fine if caught.
It sucks for us Guys who love History instead of How much Silver a year they can get for some silly contest.
80% were a bunch of Newbs who could care less as just a fad to them. But it was a passion to us.

 

[Architex]

-- moved topic --

 

[still looking 52]

... I'm happy to say we don't have any stupid rules and regulations here in our area to deal with,....

still-looking, I bet I could get that changed in a few short weeks. Just tell me where you detect. I will track down the entity that administers the locations (city, county, state, fed, or whatever). And then pepper them with questions to clarify the activities of still-looking-52. I would just ask them : "Gee, is it really right that still-looking takes home city property for his own pleasure and profit ? And "gee, doesn't this run afoul of harvest/take/remove laws" ? And "Gee, shouldn't there be a permit?" . And "gee, what if he finds an indian bone, or leaves a hole where a little girl trips ?"

And in 2 or 3 weeks, I bet you'd have a permit system, or outright "no's". So the lack of stupid rules in your area simply means you haven't gone asking enough questions. Shame on you, eh ? I'm sure you're wracked with guilt right about now.

I totally agree with you Tom. It's like swarping at a hornet's nest, your going to have trouble.

 

[slingshot]

I guess we shoulda listened to the late Karl Von Mueller- my favorite read- to KEEP OUR MOUTHS SHUT!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I guess we shoulda listened to the late Karl Von Mueller- my favorite read- to KEEP OUR MOUTHS SHUT!

Well, he said that in terms of claim jumpers (people who descend on your researched sites). Or govt. saying that goodies belong to them (ala Mel Fisher, etc.., taxes, etc....). I don't think the late great Karl ever said that envisioning laws being dreamed up , to answer md'rs questions "swatting hornet's nests"..

But you're right: What he said could equally apply to the: "No one cared till you asked" phenomenon.

 

[HaroldILL.]

I guess we shoulda listened to the late Karl Von Mueller- my favorite read- to KEEP OUR MOUTHS SHUT!

Exactly! Today's Newbees cant wait to get on YouTube and show off everything they find.
I would love to play poker with some of these Guys.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... Exactly! Today's Newbees cant wait to get on YouTube and show off everything they find....

In-so-far as it concerns "bureaucratic nonsense" that has evolved: I respectfully disagree with this.

It's not the forum show & tells that alert bureaucrats to decide: "... Let's create a rule". For starters: 99% of the time (unless it's on various innocuous beaches), no one's really saying "found here " or "found there". Instead, they're just saying "park" or "stage stop" or "cellar hole", or "defunct scout camp", etc.... And even if someone specifically said "Such & such park" in "such & such city", do you *really* think that anyone except fellow md'ing geeks are reading forums ? Of course not. No one's monitoring forums, sees show & tell with specific geographic locale, and then says "Let's make a law".

Thus IMHO it's not show & tell bragging rights (that is inherent to the fun of the hobby) that's "swatting hornet's nests". Instead it's today's newbies who think they have to waltz into city halls, or send emails to the county or states "FAQ's", asking "Can I metal detect?". Their "pressing question" gets a safe answer.

None of those persons who ever handed out a "no", did so because they went perusing through the "today's finds" sections of any md'ing forum. Or watched youtube videos. JMHO

No more so than you'd be studying knitting forums, or water skiing forums, or bird-watching forums, etc.... if that's not your cup of tea.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I can think of only 1 isolated example of show & tell bringing heat though:

There's a militant purist archie, with a vicious anti-collector anti-digger blog. And he scans the internet world-wide, to profile various supposed sins, to rail about. Usually European based new or forum or fleabay finds: Eg.: someone selling ancient vases dug in Europe somewhere. Or someone selling CW artifacts "dug near such & such battle" as the description.

In one of his blogs he had found some T'net post where a gleeful md'r had made a post about objects found on the "Oregon trail" (mule shoes, harmonica reeds, pistol balls, etc...). Apparently the md'r had found camp-stop spot along the emigrant trail. And the archie blogger linked this on his blog, & railed and railed about how horrible this was.

I jumped on his blog (he was kind enough to let my comment stick), that the full length of the Oregon trail was not off limits. There are vast stretches that go through private land. And the farmer can let anyone on he desires. The md'r hadn't said exactly *where* his spot was. The archie was forced to agree. But then went on to show his true colors by saying that EVEN ON PRIVATE LAND (even when no laws broken), that md'ing was still evil. If not done with archaeological rigor. Doh!

But that is very rare that anyone who hates md'ing, and wants to justify laws, would ever troll our sites, study our show & tells, and think "aha, let's raise cain". If you were to trace back the evolution of any bureaucratic nonsense, it started NOT from forum or youtube show & tells. Instead, it is invariably : a) Someone asking "can I?" in places where there was no specific prohibition. Or (more rarer) : b) Some passerby ranger or archie or gardener sees an md'r, and thinks "hhmmm, he might leave a hole", or "hhhmm, he might find an old artifact". But show & tell on forums that are strictly visited by md'rs ? Nah.

 

[HaroldILL.]

Yes but the YouTube videos show People digging up Parks with Shovels for the most part. Newbees see this and think its O.K. They also make it look like they get Silver and gold every time out and draws people more into greed than the love of the History.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Perhaps yes. And in a roundabout way, this entices newbies to rush out with a radio shack, and become a lightening rod for attention. Because they don't know how to be discreet. How to look harmless during the evil process of extraction (or showing up with shovels @ turf as you say).

... They also make it look like they get Silver and gold every time out .....

When my hunting partner and I do videos, we make sure to have lots of the live digs @ junk put in for good measure. Eg.: modern shotgun butts, slag, flat tin that fooled us, etc.... Because if all that stuff got left on the cutting room floor, and *only* the good stuff was shown, then it's not really capturing the sport. It becomes like the bass-fishing channel where "every cast is a lunker". I actually relish the youtube videos where it's not *strictly* the isolating of the beep that turns out to be the keeper. But also captures the signals that the md'r has elected to pass, or that fooled him, or turned out to be junk, etc.... (As long as, sure, there's at least one lunker with the associated excitement of the reveal, etc..., haha)