how many of you find that All-metal multi-tone is the answer for your hunting expeditions?

[JimmyCT]

For those of you that use all-metal multi-tone: have any of you discovered significant changes in re-opening any of your sites for good quality finds? Have you made finds that were masked or at deeper depths due to the fact you were running true all-metal mode?

Has anyone ever compared these signals by switching over into wide-open disc to see if you could detect them? What were your findings? To me, what makes this all-metal extra special is the fact it has multi-tones. Having used a Sov GT in the past, I absolutely love multi-tones and couldn't live without them.

To me being able to differentiate between metals in all-metal mode with variable tone may place an x-terra user at an advantage over the same machine using disc as nothing is being discriminated. What is your assessment / findings of this mode / feature on the x-terra ?

Thanks - Jim

 

[homebre]

I have only been using the xterra 705 for 6 months and have tried it with DISC and AM multitone and AM 2 or 3 tone. I have to say with AM multitone I get overwhelmed by all the hits I get in places. It sounds like a symphony, and is mor ocnfusing than it is worth in places heavily laden with iron and aluminum slaw. However, I am a novice with the machines, so take it for what it is worth.
Andy from NC

 

[Digger]

I talk about this on pages 86 and 87 of my eBook. Here is a portion of that topic......

I hunt in All Metal, (zero discrimination), with Multiple Tones. All Metal allows you to hear every metallic target the coil passes over. But if I had to pick one specific setting, I would chose to hunt in a Discrimination Pattern with all the notches set to accept. I refer to this as zero discrimination because it is a Discrimination Pattern that is not rejecting any notch segments. I prefer the multiple tone audio. And I like using Zero Discrimination as a Pattern, opposed to All Metal.
Running in a Discrimination Pattern with zero discrimination more accurately identifies deep iron as a ferrous target, compared to the All Metal. In other words, deep iron gives fewer +48 signals in a zero
Discrimination Pattern than it does in the All Metal. Again, I believe this reinforces my circular discrimination theory mentioned previously, as properties assigned to a specific notch segment are the only target
properties you will detect. In All Metal, those deep iron targets are more likely to bounce between the most conductive reading of +48 and the most ferrous reading of -8. Having a specific notch segment established to accept the most ferrous property values ( -8 ) results in less TID bouncing ( -8 to +48 ) on deep iron targets. X-TERRA users will find that the higher frequency coils produce more “wrap around” signals than lower frequency coils. This is due to the fact that the higher frequency coils expand the TID range for low conductive targets, but compress the TID range of higher conductive targets. Since the highest notch segment of the X-TERRA 505, 70 and 705 is “tighter” (by design) than the other notch segments, you can greatly reduce the effects of deeply buried iron by rejecting the +48 notch segment.

When you turn the X-TERRA on, all the settings you used the last time you hunted are saved, with one exception. It will not turn back on to All Metal. It always sets up in the last Discrimination Pattern you used. So, in order to not have to worry about forgetting to switch to All Metal, I established one of my Discrimination Patterns to accept all notches. This way, when I turn on the detector, it sets up in a Discrimination Pattern with zero discrimination.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Hi Randy,
So are you saying the zero discrimination that you save is actually set to accept -8 and reject +48 and that this program is saved when you turn off the detector?

 

[BillF]

FWIW, I hunt in 4 tone AM quite often. I listen for high tones amongst the jumble of noise. I have to be "in the mood" for doing it though.

 

[cal]

I run in 99 tone pretty much exclusively and all metal. Longhair suggested I try this method. Since following his suggestion I have found 2 gold rings in the past 2 weeks. I am going to try the zero disc method as I have it on my #2 pattern now. To be honest I'm afraid to change to much . HH

 

[Old Longhair]

Try everything Cal!
Until you do, you don't know what your machine can do. Flexibility is truly the beauty of the 705, and I've found few sites that can't be hunted for any reason. You just need to be adaptable, and a little experimentation goes a long way toward understanding where to utilize what you learn from it.

 

[argyle1]

Hi Jim.
Apologies for having your questions in "Brackets" below, but I couldn't work out how to separate the Quotes in a post using an Android phone.

"For those of you that use all-metal multi-tone: have any of you discovered significant changes in re-opening any of your sites for good quality finds? Have you made finds that were masked or at deeper depths due to the fact you were running true all-metal mode?"

Not in so much as re-opening sites, but more to do with new sites. For me that means ultra trashy heavy sites as these are the money making sites where our $2and $1 coins are plentiful.
As I've always run, or I should really say mostly run, with full multi-tone in all-metal, or in disc mode with all segments open, I've rechecked in all modes and custom modes on deep hits that I are certain are coins many times with all coils and Modes to the point of almost bizzare attention to detail.
And on targets I'm sure are junk as well, as I think it's far more important to distinguish junk targets. A strong suit of the XTerra's since the 30's 50's and 70's.

Even though the All Metal Mode isn't a True all metal mode but an all metal acceptance mode, and with the running of 6" and 9" concentric 7.5kHz coils taking care of masking issues the DD's have, running in Multitone All Metal ( or any of the tone choices for that matter, depending on the tone break changes in direct comparison to where the coins your hunting come in on the TID and VID segments ) most definitely gives deeper hits on coins, especially on-edge, than bringing any Discrimination into play, as the Disc circuitry does cut into depth and degrades both Tones and VID.
Bringing Disc to bear also plays with the Processors, causing disrupted Ground Balance Off-set and Balance/Tracking, in fact all the settings are compromised by bringing in Discriminated Segments.

As you are both used to and like multi-tone units already you'll gell straight away. I'm not sure if you've used XTerra's yet as I don't think you said, but if you haven't you should find the tonage much more pleasant than BBS and FBS. I loved both, but the XTerra's do not carry the grating/squelching tone of the Sovereign. One of the reasons I had to give them away as I'm sure they were affecting my hearing.
Plus the tones on the XTerra are Full Tones, giving a nice tonal change from a full fairly shallow target, down to a slim deep tone at the furthest edge of detection of that target given it's size and depth..... before being degraded to Iron and or cut off.

"To me being able to differentiate between metals in all-metal mode with variable tone may place an x-terra user at an advantage over the same machine using disc as nothing is being discriminated. What is your assessment / findings of this mode / feature on the x-terra ?"

Hearing every metal the coil detects is all important to me, (hence concentics, especially the 6") as it gives me a direct sight into exactly how much junk is under the ground and more importantly at which levels they have sunk to. It gives me a better idea of coinage depths of earlier (25 year) drops, to current recent shallow drops. And Multi-Tone gives me an edge on both slanted coinage and ferrous junk.
It's really just one of the uses I run the XTerra's for, but it's the main one as it makes me the most money.

 

[jimmyzr1]

Has anyone on here tried doing this for gold rings? And if so, how did it work out?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pm5IgBS0GS8

 

[argyle1]

Yeah Jimmy.

It's theoretical nonsense that the dealer that made the clip came up with.
Those patterns and the use of them in the real world of in-ground detecting make the entire premise laughable.
He makes money, big money, selling detectors, accessories, and giving paid tuition. Full on self promoter.....big talker...

 

[jimmyzr1]

Wow, thanks, you saved me buying or trading for one of these. I may still do it, but maybe not as quickly as I was thinking. I have a lot of other capable detectors.

 

[argyle1]

To be honest Jimmy, I reckon you'd love the 705, regardless of that silly clip.

Owning many and having used the amount of detectors you've had/still own, a 705 would fit in somewhere for sure. They have settings and functions simply not seen on any other unit. Even a few secrets to them that you'd work out for yourself....stuff that I reckon Minelab don't even know about.
It's just that multi-discing for jewelry isn't one of them haha..

 

[JimmyCT]

Thank you all for responding to my post. All info is much appreciated!

Thank you Digger for the information and point taken on the deep iron. Have you ever carried out depth and masking comparisons between true all-metal and DISC with an open pattern? I would be interested in hearing your comments.

argyle - excellent detailed information! Thank you!

 

[Digger]

When you turn off the detector in a Pattern, it will restart using that same pattern. If you shut it down in All Metal, it will start up in the last pattern you had used.

 

[Digger]

I don't find any difference in depth between All Metal and Zero Discrimination. But I have heard some short, choppy signals using All Metal, that I could not hear when I switched to zero discrimination. Being able to compare the different X-TERRA models "head to head", I came to the conclusion that those signals were beyond the ferrous parameters in the notch segments of the discrimination patterns of the 705. I reached this conclusion partially by comparing the 505 and 705. The 505 uses 3-digit notch segments, going from -9 to 48. The 705 uses 2-digit notch segments, going from -8 to 48. I was able to hear an audio response on a piece of ferrite, using an open discrimination pattern on the 505, reading a minus 9. But on the 705, I could only hear it in All Metal mode. It is my opinion that the target was too ferrous to be categorized into the lowest ferrous parameter that was programmed into notch segment -8 on the 705. But, that is just my opinion.
Personally, I don't think masking is any better or worse with either mode. Note that discriminating out a notch segment does not keep the detector from detecting it. It merely keeps the detector from producing a target response on that specific target, instead, replacing the threshold with silence (nulling). The key to target separation with the X-TERRA (or any detector) is having proper control of the search coil. By that I mean sweep speed, overlapping the sweeps, going over questionable targets from a multitude of directions, listening for the subtle sounds of a target's response and glancing at the TID to see if it wraps from the lowest ferrous reading to the highest conductive reading. When I get an "iffy" signal, I will scan that target from several directions, using both fast and slow sweeps. Fast sweeps on deeply buried iron will produce a chopped signal. I will also go over the target using Sizing Pinpoint. Sizing pinpoint will help determine the shape of a target. And, if the target doesn't appear in the same exact location using Pinpoint that it does in your detect mode, it will not likely be a coin.

 

[tsgman]

Always A/M Mode for me.

 

[JimmyCT]

Digger,

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my questions. Exactly the information I was seeking and very much appreciated! - Jim

I don't find any difference in depth between All Metal and Zero Discrimination. But I have heard some short, choppy signals using All Metal, that I could not hear when I switched to zero discrimination. Being able to compare the different X-TERRA models "head to head", I came to the conclusion that those signals were beyond the ferrous parameters in the notch segments of the discrimination patterns of the 705. I reached this conclusion partially by comparing the 505 and 705. The 505 uses 3-digit notch segments, going from -9 to 48. The 705 uses 2-digit notch segments, going from -8 to 48. I was able to hear an audio response on a piece of ferrite, using an open discrimination pattern on the 505, reading a minus 9. But on the 705, I could only hear it in All Metal mode. It is my opinion that the target was too ferrous to be categorized into the lowest ferrous parameter that was programmed into notch segment -8 on the 705. But, that is just my opinion.
Personally, I don't think masking is any better or worse with either mode. Note that discriminating out a notch segment does not keep the detector from detecting it. It merely keeps the detector from producing a target response on that specific target, instead, replacing the threshold with silence (nulling). The key to target separation with the X-TERRA (or any detector) is having proper control of the search coil. By that I mean sweep speed, overlapping the sweeps, going over questionable targets from a multitude of directions, listening for the subtle sounds of a target's response and glancing at the TID to see if it wraps from the lowest ferrous reading to the highest conductive reading. When I get an "iffy" signal, I will scan that target from several directions, using both fast and slow sweeps. Fast sweeps on deeply buried iron will produce a chopped signal. I will also go over the target using Sizing Pinpoint. Sizing pinpoint will help determine the shape of a target. And, if the target doesn't appear in the same exact location using Pinpoint that it does in your detect mode, it will not likely be a coin.

 

[rickyp123]

I use am with 4 tones will try it how digger says do it tomorrow 0 discrimination an 99 tones think my small brain see the sense it I hope lol

 

[basstrackerman]

I use 0 disc 99 tones alot and love it..

 

[acemagurgle]

I'm new at using the 705 and I love the features, but what I don't understand is how to set the detector to zero discrimination , as opposed to all metal you push the all metal button , might be a dumb question but can somebody please help me with that , thanks for your time